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What if Switch Pro had RTX? An Experiment.

Dampf

Member
YEmXyPz.png


This is what it could look like.

What you see here is Control running on my RTX 2060 laptop at 720p using DLSS Balanced (which is just 410p). However, to simulate theoretical Switch Pro performance, I downclocked the hell out of this thing. It is basically just a former shadow of itself now! At 375 MHz, the theoretical raw output of my 2060 is now around 1.4 TFLOPs which is absolutely in the realm of possibility for an actively cooled handheld, especially when using more efficient 8nm or 5nm process node. Of course, memory bandwidth is also heavily downclocked to a sad 810 MHz, which puts it around 150 GB/s. Admittedly that does seem a bit much, the real Switch Pro would likely have around 100 GB/s or less. Still it is pretty close to that and we have to remember with the real Switch Pro, they should be able to get more juice out as it's a closed system so developers can work closer to the metal here and the possibility the system could use the Ampere architecture which allows DLSS to run concurrently to RT+Shading to get a few more frames, as well as using lower RT settings than on PC for saving further rendertime similar to Xbox and PS5.

I think this experiment shows nicely that demanding RT like Control in a handheld when leveraging RT and tensor cores is not only possible but also more than playable and enjoyable. Nintendo could actually be the first to deliver this demanding state of the art tech (talking about real time RT in games of course) to the mobile sector. Let that sink in for a moment. Now you're playing with power!

Not to mention that with Raytracing, Nintendo being Nintendo, they would use this technology to its full potential. With Raytracing, entirely fresh gameplay mechanics would be possible. And with tensor cores they could also utilize them to power AI and more in their next games. The possibilities are nearly endless!

For Nvidia, this also makes sense as, provided third party support is good, would allow them to get DLSS and RTX into more games on the PC as well. I can already imagine Jensen going nuts with the marketing like RT on the go thanks to our technologies, unbelievable, extraordinary etc etc.

Honestly, it just makes sense to get the entire RTX ecosystem into one of the most valuable and most selling platforms. Exciting times ahead!
 

Dampf

Member
What is so funny? We already have credible rumors of Switch Pro having DLSS so as the tensor cores are part of the Turing and Ampere architecture, it isn't far fetched to believe RT cores would be included as well.

Funnily enough, Control already runs with raytracing on the Switch. Looks pretty good too.
Well it's cloud streamed so it's not really portable and input latency is definately noticeable (although better than I would expect)
 
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mansoor1980

Member
What is so funny? We already have credible rumors of Switch Pro having DLSS so as the tensor cores are part of the Turing and Ampere architecture, it isn't far fetched to believe RT cores would be included as well.


Well it's cloud streamed so it's not really portable and input latency is definately noticeable (although better than I would expect)
when is switch pro coming ?
 

Buggy Loop

Member
At that point, isn’t it a Switch 2 rather than a pro version? RTX + DLSS would make the little machine punch way above its weight (not knowing if Nvidia has an efficient mobile version like tegra line?)
 
We already have credible rumors of Switch Pro
Absolutely nothing about the Switch Pro rumors is credible...including the rumors about the console even existing. It's been rumored for the better part of 3 years now. At this point if it does actually materialise it'll be a case of a stopped clock being right twice a day.
 

Rat Rage

Member
Get outta here with this bullshit. RTX is nothing special. To me it doesn't make games look "better". I don't understand the fascination/obsession with RTX.
 

PhoenixTank

Member
How much power is your GPU drawing while at those clocks?
I think I'd rather have a higher frame rate/resolution on a portable, though thanks.
 

NinjaBoiX

Member
Get outta here with this bullshit. RTX is nothing special. To me it doesn't make games look "better". I don't understand the fascination/obsession with RTX.
Oh my god, yes!

It’s the same with this relentless march for ever higher resolutions, just think where we could be with complex physics and AI with buttery smooth frame rates if devs dropped this “b-but the image looks a tiny bit better” mentality.
 

Rathalos

Banned
I got an RTX 3080 a few days ago and raytracing has been super disappointing, I don't even use it, it's just not worth the performance hit.
 

Komatsu

Member
What is so funny? We already have credible rumors of Switch Pro having DLSS so as the tensor cores are part of the Turing and Ampere architecture, it isn't far fetched to believe RT cores would be included as well.

There are people here who think drive-by posting reaction GIFs count as having an opinion.

That said, though we are most likely getting DLSS on their next platform, Nintendo being Nintendo it's very likely their next hardware refresh will be a Nvidia SoC on the same line as the Tegra X1 - so, let's say a Switch 2 will be based on the Xavier. The little box will have tensor cores and theoretically be RT capable but I don't think Nintendo will push ray tracing at all, given that it'll be underclocked to guarantee a semi-decent battery life.

To quote Richard Leadbetter from DF:

Instead of using DLSS to mitigate a performance loss from high-end features like ray tracing, instead we'd be using it purely to improve image quality - and it's no secret that Switch's most ambitious games do tend to be rather blurry, a factor of the low resolutions required in many cases. Even first-party Nintendo titles are affected here - Splatoon 2 and Super Mario Odyssey use dynamic resolution scaling and often reside in 720p territory. Meanwhile, the UE4-powered Yoshi's Crafted World can even hit a minimum of 576p in docked mode. In the age of the 4K TV, docked play can look a little lacklustre in some cases.
 

Rat Rage

Member
Oh my god, yes!

It’s the same with this relentless march for ever higher resolutions, just think where we could be with complex physics and AI with buttery smooth frame rates if devs dropped this “b-but the image looks a tiny bit better” mentality.

Just like with higher resolutions ("SUPER ULTRA OMEGA HD" and the likes) it is just typical marketing bullshit.

The only actually useful and non-bullshit technology for graphics is DLSS or similar upscaling techniques - and only because the TV manufacturers actually convinced the masses that 4K resolution is something that is NEEDED (which is not. 1080p could have been fine for decades - and no, nobody sits a couple of inches away from a huge monitor. It's all relative. At normal TV viewing distances, 1080p is not distinguishable from 4K, and even if you do sit in close proximity to the screen, it still depends on the size). 4K for gaming is absolutely idiotic as the visual cost-benefit-ratio is beyond aweful - totally not worth it (but that's another topic)

My problem with Raytracing is that graphics manufacturers try to push the narrative that Raytracing makes "everything" look better when in reality the equation that more realistic lighting applied to any kind of graphics = visually "better" is AS STUPID AS the equation that realism in graphics = visually "better" or super complex graphics with 1 billion polygons = visually "better", when in reality it is all a style choice and very subjective, hence why the gaming industry has been obsessed with visual realism for so long, and admittedly the average consumer fell for that initially. However, the dust has long settled. It's the same with the progression of cinema CGI: once people got used to it - and even suffered overstimulation or worse, immersion-breaking visual experiences due to a wrong and/or overuse of CGI, thus resulting in a LACK of (visual) suspension of disbelief (similar to the effects of 48fps vs. 24fps in cinema), - - the novelity wore off and the opposite effect, boredom kicked in. Same with ultra realistic looking graphics and RTX, which try to "enhance" them even further.

I think people - me included - are getting bored of overly realistic-looking graphics, that's why RTX isn't as important as the marketing tries to sell it to everybody. The funny thing is, RTX makes it all even worse. It's gonna be fun to see how the particular publishers and developers which relied so much on their visuals will deal with that realization - the realization that the market, as graphics reach more and more diminishing returns (I think we are already there), won't be as receptive to realistic-looking graphics as it used to be, ESPECIALLY because the current "AAA" market tries to push the "games should be 70 or 80 bucks" narrative. I think they are already scared as fuck.
At the end of the day the developers will remain who will have the best gaming experiences - or simple: the most fun to play games, regardless of realistic-looking graphics, because the "AAA" model is no longer sustainable. Quantity over substance will not be tolerated in the future, even by the most casual of gamers.
 
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Paasei

Member
I would already be happy that a supposedly different Switch has a normal D-pad. I know the lite has one, but I can't dock it....
 

tylrdiablos

Member
Christ. There's very little worse than threads based on rumours and speculation. Oh look, another <X said Y on click-bait site Z>.
At this point I'd rather see a deep-fake trailer or a 3D-printed fake. At least then someone made an actual effort.

Is Nintendo working on a revised Switch or completely new console? Probably.
Is there anything we know about it or can do about it? No.
Shall we just get on with our lives and wait for an official announcement? Yes. (It might even be as soon as E3 in June.)
 

Dampf

Member
How does reay tracing add game play mechanics?

Which puddle of water has better reflections?
Raytracing is a lot more than just puddles. It can produce fully dynamic lighting that developers don't have to bake in anymore, meaning it A saves a ton of developer time and money that is better spent somewhere else and B you can have for example lighting puzzles with endless possibilities.


Even with RT reflections you have gameplay advantages like seeing your opponents reflections before they get to you. There was one indie game in 2018 even using the concept of RT off screen reflections as a gameplay mechanic.

I feel like people here who just say It iS jUsT pUDDLeS don't actually know much about the tech and keep bullshitting my thread lol
 

Dampf

Member
How much power is your GPU drawing while at those clocks?
I think I'd rather have a higher frame rate/resolution on a portable, though thanks.
A good question. Here's where things get a little weird. I am using NvidiaInspector to take a minus 1000 MHz off the boost clock, however that doesn't seem to adjust the voltage correctly. It stays at the same level the full boost clocks are, so the GPU consumes 30 watts either way. To correctly test the power draw, I would have to adjust the voltage as well. MSI Afterburner OC curve would do this, as Inspector is still using the old way of overclocking afaik and Nvidia invented a new one with Turing which is used by MSI Afterburner. Sadly the OC curve in MSI Afterburner starts at 1000 MHz, so it is not usable for this experiement.

Why not both though? Options are always good. Still, the energy consumption running Control with DLSS+RTX would actually be lower than rendering at native 720p without RT, I imagine. But of course, just DLSS rendering at 410p and without RT at 30 FPS would allow the clocks to downclock further and would allow for crazy long battery life. I think that would be most prefered for a portable and the default way to go. Then you could add another two options for performance (60 FPS) and quality (RTX on). Resolution is bascially not a topic anymore with DLSS as it would look very close to native 720p on a 7inch screen, very crisp and detailed, similar to the picture in the OP.
 
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Dr.D00p

Gold Member
Battery life you mongol

No need for that, the guy was just posting an interesting, if completely unrealistic, theoretical 'what if' scenario.

When it comes to Nintendo and their cheaping out on hardware, its all we've got.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
No need for that, the guy was just posting an interesting, if completely unrealistic, theoretical 'what if' scenario.

When it comes to Nintendo and their cheaping out on hardware, its all we've got.

i think calling it cheaping out is not really fair.

show me another handheld device with a good battery life that plays doom 2016/eternal witcher 3 skyrim and diablo 3 under 300 dollars
 

Ceadeus

Member
They probably won't go this route and it's perfect. I don't think Nintendo ever needed RTX, 4K or any of this.

What would be more realistic is more Ram memory, for better overall gaming experience but also a much needed revamped Eshop, more complex system UI. Better screen , less bezel. Better CPU and GPU. Maybe more internal storage and JoyCon 2.0.
 
It's quite logical to go by Nintendo's past mid-gen iterations of their consoles, to tone down on the expectations and keep them very low, as cheaping out BOM is Nintendo's mantra for every new hardware of theirs, let alone mid-gen iterations.

That said, the PS4Pro and the Xbox One X have certainly changed things in the industry quite a bit, and the "4K" letters are more than just a marketing buzzword today, thanks to new consoles.

It's not out of the realm of possibility to expect Nintendo to release a capable 1080p home console/handheld hybrid with great battery life and an aggressive implementation of DLSS (most importantly forcing 3rd party dev's to make use of that).

Then again, they want maximum profits on both their hardware and software, and they do that through BOM. It's how they operate. So, can't comment anything before we hear it from the horse's mouth, or specific hardware leak from credible insiders.

Keep expectations very low to not be disappointed.
 

McCheese

Member
Calm yourself lad, most switch games don't even have anti-aliasing. Nintendo will leave their cave and discover fire raytracing sometime in 2030 based on previous uptake of modern standards.

Switch Pro might have a friend list and achievements.
 

Burger

Member
No need for that, the guy was just posting an interesting, if completely unrealistic, theoretical 'what if' scenario.

When it comes to Nintendo and their cheaping out on hardware, its all we've got.

Interesting in the same way as What if cows were actually people? What if your car could actually fly into space? What if instead of money you were paid in dogshit?

It's not interesting, as it's not possible, therefore pointless.
 

Dampf

Member
Interesting in the same way as What if cows were actually people? What if your car could actually fly into space? What if instead of money you were paid in dogshit?

It's not interesting, as it's not possible, therefore pointless.
I just proved its possible.
 
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Zannegan

Member
1.4 TF is around 3x what the docked Switch does and 6x its portable self, no? It might be doable in a handheld form-factor, and it's certainly interesting, but I doubt we'll see anything like that kind of jump with a mid-gen refresh.

I like this post as an indication of the kinds of features we might see in a 2024 Switch successor if Nintendo sticks with Nvidia.
 

Arun1910

Member
Not sure why anyone with a switch would want Ray Tracing.

Always saw the Switch as a "casual" machine, where experiences > graphical fidelity.
 
I don't think people understand the power needed to drive games with RT enabled. I'm pulling 350Watts on my 3090 right now. That's not gonna happen on a mobile platform for at least another 15-20 years.
 
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