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[nkarafo]

I don’t understand why they look so shit TBH.
Even Pepper Grinder that others have pointed out here as the best looks awful to me.

Why can’t indies make games that look like this?

Or

Or

All really old games which still hold-up today.

Because zoomer indie developers don't know how pixel graphics in old games worked. They treat them as a hip "retro" art style and not as something that had to do with technical quirks and limitations.

 

[Rickyiez]

You just have to dig harder . These are some great upcoming or recently released indies

Sea of Stars


Signalis


Cult of the lamb

 

[bitbydeath]

those 3 games you listed look way worse. and how do they hold up when i don't even remember any of them (and one looks like a Mario Kart clone)
i think pepper grinder will hold up much better and be remembered for years to come

They look way better IMO, the character detail, gameplay and animations are still great today.
You don’t remember them because they’re around 30 years old, something indies should be able to accomplish by now.

 

[lh032]

You have options.
1. Rogue-lite deck building game with 16 bit graphics.
2. Visual novel about lesbians struggling to make an indie game in a world that doesn't care about them and all they have is a generous trust fund and dream.
3. Minecraft/Animal Crossing chill out game for zoomers.

It used to be a choice between twin stick shooter and physics puzzle game.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Have a Nice Death looks the most uninspired to me. It feels like we've gotten 3 or 4 solid 2D roguelikes every year for the last 10 years. The genre is truly terrible now.

The other games don't interest me but at least most of them are doing something non traditional.

So it's a more inspired lineup than I expected.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Indie games are made for 5 minutes of YouTube fame. Nobody actually plays them let alone reach the end credits.

 

[Jubenhimer]

Good news is there's ALWAYS a back facing side of anything. When something niche becomes popular, there cyclicaly comes a counter to it. There's innovative, visually arresting indie titles out there, I'm sure. Just need to know what you're into and where to find it.

Always remember Sturgeon's Law. Savor and celebrate the 10%, forget the 90%.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Are you seriously forming your opinion on indie games based on Nintendo presentation?

 

[mdkirby]

There are PLENTY of interesting looking indie games out there and coming out, or released recently. There's just A LOT of indie devs now, the industry has grown significantly in the last decade, which has hugely expanded the demographics of both the creators and the audience, instead of mostly just being white geeky males. So as a result plenty of games simply won't be interesting to large chunks of the 'traditional' gaming audience, as they aren't necessarily aimed at them. There'll be everything from LGBT developers who want to tell a specific story using gaming as a medium and whose audience is LGBT, there'll be ethnically diverse developers who want to tell a story about their culture, and whenever industries expand there'll be cynical opportunist out to make a quick buck, hence a flood of Jumping Taco, Jumping Pizza games etc. Between all those there's still plenty of (even more really) innovative, and interesting indie games out there, they are just a little more obscured when there are SO many games to cover for many different people, you can't possibly show all the ones one specific demographic may be interested in during a single 1hr showcase (not forgetting that the first parties, like Sony like to cherry pick the best of them to show during their showcases).

Some of my favourite games in the last 18 months have been Indies. Disco Elyseum, Road 96, Stray. All were great and unique in their own ways.

It feels like the critique is built on a false narrative to have a bit of a whine about wokeness ...Sure there's games about blue haired people struggling with anxiety...so what? they aren't for you or me, doesn't mean they shouldn't exist or there isn't an audience for them.

 

[ADiTAR]

It's having a wider net of tastes that will cater to other people than you. Which is broadening the demographics of people who play games. It used to be that people complained everything was shooter, then looter shooter, then hero shooter, etc. Now more people can say, "oh, that's something I want". And that's great for the industry as a whole. Not to mention, it doesn't subtract anything from the games you like, those indie developer are still making them.

With the barrier of entry into game dev lowered so much, it's great to have options. I liked the showcase even tho I'll prob only pick up Inscryption.

 

[ungalo]

Gamepass makes some sort of selection. It's not always for the best though, as it seems to me they select some games based on how they look and sometimes with indie games the nice looking ones are the biggest scams. Like 5 hours of superficial gameplay that won't stick with you. It's not even just about the look but the presentation in general, like it seems some indies are made for us to think they have a great potential with their concept and when you actually play it it's empty and vague.

I think some visuals are not so much a retro approach than a minimalistic one, it's about deconstructing everything that makes a game to return to the basis. And there are a lot of games where that was relevant and/or useful. for the concept.

Besides that of course a large portion of the market is composed of garbage games but that's just normal.

 

[rofif]

Yeah there is some really good stuff out there like exo one, tear down, vampire survivors, forgotten city or far lone sails.
It’s so hip and cool to like indies… but it’s shovelware. It’s repetition. Devs don’t think they should. They just do.
In the absence on AA and much lower rate of AAA releases, indie games fill the space. But it’s so much of it and at some point you played it all

 

[The_Mike]

The only moment indies were good in here according to Gas, was at the release of previous gen where there weren't any good triple a games at launch and ps4 had a bunch of exclusive indies.

That's the only time I've heard people talk positively about it.

No one gave a shit when the big Sony exclusives began to release.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The secret is to stop caring about 'indie', 'AA' or 'AAA' labels. If something looks interesting to you, play it.

And to reiterate my previous point, the indie game i'm most looking forward to in the foreseeable future right now is this one, which doesn't look like any of these 'hip' games.



Never seen it in any big game presentations, only found out about this thanks to the Haunted PS1 demo disc collection.
You really cannot take these showcases as representative of the market.

 

[64bitmodels]

The only moment indies were good in here according to Gas, was at the release of previous gen where there weren't any good triple a games at launch and ps4 had a bunch of exclusive indies.

That's the only time I've heard people talk positively about it.

No one gave a shit when the big Sony exclusives began to release.

so they never truly cared. :/

 

[The_Mike]

so they never truly cared. :/

resogun was very hyped at the beginning of the Playstation 4.

 

[ANDS]

If all someone is doing is playing the "Top Sellers" on STEAM, then I can see this "sky is falling" attitude. This year has been great for indie and AA games, and it doesn't look like it is stopping heading into next year (I'm particularly excited to try out ESPIOCRACY and BOOK OF HOURS next year, and DOOR KICKERS, GLOOMWOOD, WARTALES and FARTHEST FRONTIER when they get out of EA). My STEAM wishlist is nothing but indie titles with only IMMORTALITY on their anything close to a "Visual Novel."

STEAM, for better or worse, has opened the floodgates for independently developed titles (often by one person) to flourish, and I honestly have a hard time believing that there's just nothing out there in that space currently that resonates with someone.

 

[StueyDuck]

i see alot of people are still not really understanding the thread and believe it's about "no good indie games" which is not what i said

the thread is about how majority of the indie game scene right now is extremely uninspired and unambitious.

There was a period where no mans sky was an indie game... say what you will and how it turned out, that doesn't change the fact that is was ambitious as fuck, then look at The Witness, i still dream of that game from time to time. And it's true there are still gems out there, Outer wilds is one of the best games ever made period and took my love of Majoras mask and made it better.

but i don't know how anyone can look at that tripe in that showcase barring a few exceptions or even list the games they have found on steam like vampire survivors (as fun as it may be) and say that we are in a good place with indie games.

we seem to have take 12 steps back and its just flash fan games... I literally saw a castlevania dating game, like fuck people come on, that is some low level pathetic shit

I think the best example of this is when one person made a complete parody of the gay dinosaurs game (i can't remember the real name of it, that's just how we referred to it in our friend group) within a week or something silly, yet the indie dev making that shit still hasn't got it out the door. it's literally a picture book game hahahaha i mean what could be taking so long

 

[Guilty_AI]

There was a period where no mans sky was an indie game... say what you will and how it turned out, that doesn't change the fact that is was ambitious as fuck, then look at The Witness, i still dream of that game from time to time. And it's true there are still gems out there, Outer wilds is one of the best games ever made period and took my love of Majoras mask and made it better.

but i don't know how anyone can look at that tripe in that showcase barring a few exceptions or even list the games they have found on steam like vampire survivors (as fun as it may be) and say that we are in a good place with indie games.

And what we've been saying is that you can still find them, its just that you're unlikely to see those in such showcases.

Someone mentioned The Forgotten City for example, since you liked Outer Wilds you should definitely check that one out.

No Man's Sky? We also have large scale sandbox/rpg games like that in the works or already out:

If there's anything that decreased in quality, it was the selection of these showcases, i can agree with that much.

 

[StueyDuck]

And what we've been saying is that you can still find them, its just that you're unlikely to see those in such showcases.

Someone mentioned The Forgotten City for example, since you liked Outer Wilds you should definitely check that one out.

No Man's Sky? We also have large scale sandbox/rpg games like that in the works or already out:

If there's anything that decreased in quality, it was the selection of these showcases, i can agree with that much.

but the showcase is what the greater public sees, the showcase pushes those games and leads the direction of games to follow.

it's all well and great that 5 of us sit in tower smelling our farts cause we found 5 indie games out of a sea of 100000000 uninspired bland boring games.

i still stand by the fact that the greater indie scene in general is really uninspired and uninteresting with little to no ambition, just because you found some nice games doesn't make the original statement wrong

We should be in a better position overall with independent games after all these years but we are in fact in a worse position because now you have to go gold digging just to find a few promising nuggets (lets not forget many of these games enter early access and never leave as well)

 

[Guilty_AI]

it's all well and great that 5 of us sit in tower smelling our farts cause we found 5 indie games out of a sea of 100000000 uninspired bland boring games.

So what? Its 5 great games to play (and there's more), some of which you can have fun with for hundreds of hours. Who cares if there is a sea of others not worth your time?

i still stand by the fact that the greater indie scene in general is really uninspired and uninteresting with little to no ambition, just because you found some nice games doesn't make the original statement wrong

I found 5 exception for your rule, and i could increase it even further. You're trying to argue that the indie scene is 'uninspired' because there is tons of trash out there (and guess what, there always was), and what i'm saying is that this is just how the creative process work.

We have tons of people wanting to unleash their creativity, majority of them not worth our time. Some are making games, others are making music, books, art, etc. There are millions upon millions of works out there, does that stop you from enjoying the 0.1% of good stuff, which is already more than one can consume for their lifetime? Does that mean "everything is trash" just because its easy nowadays to share what you make?

As i said, the criticism you should be making is towards these showcases who only know how to pick bland stuff.

 

[Doczu]

Well indie went the same route as mobile games, just not as stacked with IAPs and ad's every fucking 5 seconds. You get the occasional good game, but the stores are filled with shit.

Well mobile might be a bit better as they are not filled with those boring, uninspired, filled with personal drama walking sims or "adventure games" where you just know that the poc, disabled underdog protagonist with an excel file long list of medication for their "social anxieties", fighting against the whole world is modelled after the lone dev who had one too many parental visits during the night.

I get it. Life sucks. But so does your game. Should have taken therapy sessions from a real professional. That college friend of you was not right telling you to make a game about it.

 

[Jet Set Willy]

It does feel like indie golden age is fading a little of late, but then I think back to the last 12-18 months with the likes of Death's Door, Tunic, Prodeus, Stray and most recently Entropy Centre, I've had some great indie experiences. And there's still a ton of indie stuff coming out in future on my Steam wishlist to look forward to. Death's Door was actually my personal GOTY last year.

 

[shiru]

Indie Devs share the mentality of the following examps:
>Born in the late 70s/80s/early 90s
>Grew up on nerdy movies/music/comics/tv with a cultural phenomenon status - see: Ghostbusters or Nirvana and Michael Jackson
>Leans towards the Mario franchise, or maybe niche and archaic series like Earthbound and Metroid
>Hates anything Sonic with a burning passion - starting with Sonic Adventure - tries to interpret that the old American media was what Sonic is supposed to be in the first place
>Went to college - now in dept
>Doesn't know that videogames are actually an British invention
>Online Presence makes it seem they're entire personality is based solely around vidya and nerdy hobbies
>Cares to bother with politics and ideologues
>Admits to liking young anime girls, but not manly enough to admit enjoying actual junior gravure
>Huge Backlog
>Claims to like the Dreamcast or niche games - doesn't invest in them or talk about them on media
>Believes Sonic Adventure is the single worst transition into 3D - when in reality it still holds up better than what it's made out to be - meanwhile Mario 64 does not infact hold up at all regardless of being made out as a more innovative game (that i will agree with) and latches onto other early 3D (or 2D) Platformers when most of them aren't really that great as they're made out to be (Crash - Classic era Megaman - Donkey Kong - Conker)
>Bothered with Internet Personalities or Podcasts, enough to make them Businesses, seek validation from them
>Actually caring about whatever Joe Rogan says, or what some Woke or Anti-Woke person has to say about an ideologies
>Actually caring about TV or Streaming Services in this day and age
>Childhood focused person, always brings it up in a conversation
>Furry and Anti-Transphobe mutual
>Believes Trans and Black people can't hate on they're own activist groups
>Hates Metallica, J.K. Rowling, George Lucas, Yuji Naka and Sonic Team, or public figures that are popular to hate on for the sake of it

WhAt

meanwhile Mario 64 does not infact hold up at all

Post discarded. Into the trash it goes.

 

[ANDS]

but the showcase is what the greater public sees, the showcase pushes those games and leads the direction of games to follow.

It absolutely does not. You literally just got showed a litany of games that do not follow the "vibe" of NINTENDO's showcase (who are obviously only going to showcase games they think their audience is asking for).

We should be in a better position overall with independent games after all these years but we are in fact in a worse position because now you have to go gold digging just to find a few promising nuggets (lets not forget many of these games enter early access and never leave as well)

Yeah, you're just not looking. The independent scene is overwhelmingly healthy; games developed by small development studios or small studios within larger studios are weekly punching their way onto the Steam top sellers; that NINTENDO only showcases those that are natural fits for console gaming doesn't take away from the larger scene itself.

 

[StueyDuck]

It absolutely does not. You literally just got showed a litany of games that do not follow the "vibe" of NINTENDO's showcase (who are obviously only going to showcase games they think their audience is asking for).

You realise not ALL gamers live on Neogaf , i promise you more people watched the showcase than read this thread

Most Indies are extremely unambitious, and just because a few games are great doesn't talk about the whole industry, everyone knows it, I don't know why we need to war over it, we should expect and want better. yeah there will be gems (which again you and many others can't actually read the OP and the responses in this thread) but there should be more than gems, we should have indies taking on AA even AAA games in ambition and ideas, and again there are some that try, but we shouldn't still be in the phase that only a couple of indies are trying, in fact we've gone backwards, look at all these games where you just drag a gif around a screen.

There was a point where indies were trying to make infinite universes, now they make a muted color pencil that you move around a screen.

as others have said in this thread AA and AAA are the way forward i guess

 

[tassletine]

The problem is really that games all look really nice now. Back in they day you could spot a crap game from a mile off.
So few publishers focus on developing gameplay now (and even fewer publications actually review gameplay) that it's very hard to find something fresh.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

If all someone is doing is playing the "Top Sellers" on STEAM, then I can see this "sky is falling" attitude. This year has been great for indie and AA games, and it doesn't look like it is stopping heading into next year (I'm particularly excited to try out ESPIOCRACY and BOOK OF HOURS next year, and DOOR KICKERS, GLOOMWOOD, WARTALES and FARTHEST FRONTIER when they get out of EA). My STEAM wishlist is nothing but indie titles with only IMMORTALITY on their anything close to a "Visual Novel."

STEAM, for better or worse, has opened the floodgates for independently developed titles (often by one person) to flourish, and I honestly have a hard time believing that there's just nothing out there in that space currently that resonates with someone.

Here's the thing though: there are so many AAA and AA videogames out there that I never really need to care about the latest hipster indie game.
Being a patient gamer doesn't help either. So many games from the past to discover! Currently playing Deadly premonition.



Ofcourse I have a sneaky suspicion that people BUY more games than they PLAY and that's how the market is propped up.

 

[ANDS]

You realise not ALL gamers live on Neogaf , i promise you more people watched the showcase than read this thread

That NINTENDO showcase is not even close to a representation of the full landscape of the independent game development scene.

Most Indies are extremely unambitious

Most "media" is unambitious simply because what works is what sells. This isn't unique to indie games.

, and just because a few games are great doesn't talk about the whole industry, everyone knows it, I don't know why we need to war over it, we should expect and want better. yeah there will be gems (which again you and many others can't actually read the OP and the responses in this thread) but there should be more than gems, we should have indies taking on AA even AAA games in ambition and ideas, and again there are some that try, but we shouldn't still be in the phase that only a couple of indies are trying, in fact we've gone backwards, look at all these games where you just drag a gif around a screen.

Most of the people read your OP. I read your OP. You are simply wrong about the dearth of chance taking in the indie space. Full stop. And when it is pointed out why you are wrong, by listing all the titles/developers that buck your dismissive description of where independent game development is, your response is "well I never said there were none." That or you just dismiss the game as having any merit outright (re: the entirety of the NINTENDO showcase).

Perhaps if you didn't have statements like "we should have indies taking on AA even AAA games in ambition and ideas" and could give an example of the "ambitious ideas" you're seeing in the AAA or even AA space that independent developers just can't reach, maybe folks might see your point more clearly.