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[pramod]

Piracy. And the fact that they designed a system that was so easily cracked.

Yes there was the competition from Sony, etc. But the DC was still selling well enough, I don't think there was ever any solid evidence that DC sales completely fell off the cliff once PS2 was released.

But the fact that anyone can burn their own DC discs at home with a simple CD burner, well, I don't know how Sega was going to overcome that. Once the news of DC being hacked came out it was like a dam broke, everyone was playing burnt DC games within a few weeks.
I think Sega saw the writing on the wall pretty quickly.

So what ultimately doomed Sega and DC was again, their own technical failures.

 

[Skifi28]

I don't know, if easy access to pirated games killed platforms, PC gaming wouldn't be a thing.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Piracy was also the reason the PS2/PSP were very popular in the rest of the world (South America/MENA/India and the rest of south/southeast Asia) so i don't buy that that's the reason it failed.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

I thought piracy was pretty much always brought up when discussing DC.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

DC was missing tons of key third party studios. And no DVD drive which at the time was a big thing.

I think the only key studio that supported DC was Capcom.

All these studios didnt support them (or released hardly any games)

- Namco
- Konami
- EA
- Square

 

[Patrick S.]

I don't talk about it because it has been 15 years, and everybody already knows it *shrug*

 

[Azelover]

There is no single reason for the DC's failure. It's a combination of things, piracy being one of them.

To me there were two main reasons, Sega's reputation and financial mishandlings.

 

[eastcoastkody]

idk. PS1 games were so easy to pirate....my 11 yr old ass was burning PS1 games in my families computer

 

[RoboFu]

The DC was over before it even launched.

These were the type of people running the show.

"On May 22, 2000, Okawa replaced Irimajiri as president of Sega.[126] Okawa had long advocated that Sega abandon the console business.[127] His sentiments were not unique; Sega co-founder David Rosen had "always felt it was a bit of a folly for them to be limiting their potential to Sega hardware", and Stolar had previously suggested Sega should have sold their company to Microsoft.[17][128] In September 2000, in a meeting with Sega's Japanese executives and the heads of the company's major Japanese game development studios, Moore and Bellfield recommended that Sega abandon its console business and focus on software—prompting the studio heads to walk out.[33]"

 

[UnNamed]

I don't know any computer or console that failed because piracy.

 

[Allforce]

I remember buying a Dreamcast in college and running into a buddy on campus I hadn't seen in awhile the next day. Told him I had picked one up and he just said "don't buy any games for it, stop over to my apartment later tonight".

Went over that night and he dropped two 50-count spindles of burned CDs in my hands. I had no idea what they are he goes "that's pretty much every game out right now, and a bunch of Japan-only stuff. I marked which ones need a boot loader, there's a boot loader disc on top".

That pretty much consumed my weekend, going through every single game and trying them all out. We'd link up from time to time and he'd drop another spindle of games on me, I got exposed to so many random Japanese games it was amazing. I don't think I ever purchased a single game for the Dreamcast and am the reason it died.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Nah.

 

[darkangel-212559]

I remember buying a Dreamcast in college and running into a buddy on campus I hadn't seen in awhile the next day. Told him I had picked one up and he just said "don't buy any games for it, stop over to my apartment later tonight".

Went over that night and he dropped two 50-count spindles of burned CDs in my hands. I had no idea what they are he goes "that's pretty much every game out right now, and a bunch of Japan-only stuff. I marked which ones need a boot loader, there's a boot loader disc on top".

That pretty much consumed my weekend, going through every single game and trying them all out. We'd link up from time to time and he'd drop another spindle of games on me, I got exposed to so many random Japanese games it was amazing. I don't think I ever purchased a single game for the Dreamcast and am the reason it died.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

Please tell me you played D2! PLEASE!

 

[BusierDonkey]

Piracy was a part of it, but not the only reason.

- Sega was run by a guys who wanted out of the hardware business.

- No DVD player. DVD players were still fairly expensive by 2000. Then Sony launched the PS2, which played DVD movies, for $300.

I remember buying a Dreamcast in college and running into a buddy on campus I hadn't seen in awhile the next day. Told him I had picked one up and he just said "don't buy any games for it, stop over to my apartment later tonight".

Went over that night and he dropped two 50-count spindles of burned CDs in my hands. I had no idea what they are he goes "that's pretty much every game out right now, and a bunch of Japan-only stuff. I marked which ones need a boot loader, there's a boot loader disc on top".

That pretty much consumed my weekend, going through every single game and trying them all out. We'd link up from time to time and he'd drop another spindle of games on me, I got exposed to so many random Japanese games it was amazing. I don't think I ever purchased a single game for the Dreamcast and am the reason it died.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

Thankfully there's a better way now. Behold every Dreamcast game ever made:

 

[nush]

Please tell me you played D2! PLEASE!

I did.

 

[Allforce]

I still have mine in a steamer trunk somewhere in my house, I should dig it out and look into modding it.

That same friend who set me up moved to S Korea a few years later and basically dumped all his DC accessories on me before he left. I have DDR pads, Samba De Amigo maracas, tons of VMUs and controllers. Basically an entire "must have" collection without any of the physical games....

 

[Allforce]

Please tell me you played D2! PLEASE!

It didn't ring a bell and I just looked it up and it doesn't look familiar, so I guess the answer is "no". But that's not to say I don't have it on a burned CD somewhere lol.

 

[Drew1440]

Quite a few people I know brought the first PlayStation over a Saturn/N64 purely because you could easily bypass the security via modchip and play pirated games. The same people ended up buying a PS2 and later a PS3, which by then were difficult to crack. I guess there's something to be said for tempting people into an ecosystem.

I actually wonder if piracy can benefit the platform provider in the long term, I remember when Sky first launched their satellite TV service which was compromised relatively quickly with counterfeit viewing cards being sold. People would buy the receiver/sat dish along with the card, then buy a modded viewing card which would guarantee a few months free viewing. Then Sky would release a new viewing card and would render the pirate cards useless, at which point people would just subscribe to prevent missing out on content they are used to watching since they already had the receiver installed.

 

[sublimit]

Ask the love triangle of EA,Peter Moore and MS why it failed.

 

[Fbh]

At least in my country Ps1 and Ps2 dominated mainly because of piracy.
I don't think I even knew anyone who didn't have a flashed Ps1/Ps2

 

[Neff]

Piracy did its part but it was by no means the coup de grâce. Damaged consumer faith in Sega and the simple fact that the vast majority of gamers were saving their cash for PS2 were far bigger nails in Dreamcast's coffin. At the end of the day it was lack of hardware units sold rather than software which sealed its fate.

 

[Arcane0ne]

Gd roms and no dvd,gamepad without 2nd analog,excessive arcade focused games,piracy,windows CE...

 

[Knightime_X]

I'm pretty sure it was because of dvd being a major factor.

 

[Zero7]

Dreamcast couldn't compete with the PS2. They dropped the price of the DC several time's but still nobody was interested. SEGA was in a mountain of debt way before DC existed and they couldn't afford to sell at a loss anymore than they already were.

It's was either drop out of making consoles or fail as a whole company. That's the real reason.

 

[Captain Toad]

The real reason is faith was completely lost in Sega after how the handled the Saturn launch and its early death.

Sega CD and 32x didn't help much either.

 

[WitchHunter]

Piracy. And the fact that they designed a system that was so easily cracked.

Yes there was the competition from Sony, etc. But the DC was still selling well enough, I don't think there was ever any solid evidence that DC sales completely fell off the cliff once PS2 was released.

But the fact that anyone can burn their own DC discs at home with a simple CD burner, well, I don't know how Sega was going to overcome that. Once the news of DC being hacked came out it was like a dam broke, everyone was playing burnt DC games within a few weeks.
I think Sega saw the writing on the wall pretty quickly.

So what ultimately doomed Sega and DC was again, their own technical failures.

Maybe it's a bit more complicated than that. You haven't accounted the giraffe population's energy level thoughout the world.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Piracy and no EA Sports. This forum hated EACH and sports games but Madden sells every year for a reason. Not having Madden made people wait for PS2.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

It failed because... although good,it paled in comparison to what PS2 was offering.
Probably the most overrated console ever.

 

[Aenima]

Piracy. And the fact that they designed a system that was so easily cracked.

Yes there was the competition from Sony, etc. But the DC was still selling well enough, I don't think there was ever any solid evidence that DC sales completely fell off the cliff once PS2 was released.

But the fact that anyone can burn their own DC discs at home with a simple CD burner, well, I don't know how Sega was going to overcome that. Once the news of DC being hacked came out it was like a dam broke, everyone was playing burnt DC games within a few weeks.
I think Sega saw the writing on the wall pretty quickly.

So what ultimately doomed Sega and DC was again, their own technical failures.

Playstation 2 was as easy to pirate as Dreamcast was. They both just needed a boot disk to run backup copies. Dreamcast failed because a lack of gaming catalogue. It was pretty much a console for arcade games and nothing much else outside Shenmue and Phantasy Star Online.

 

[Captain Toad]

Everyone failed against the PS2.

Dreamcast - 9 million
GameCube - 22 million
Xbox - 24 million
PlayStation 2 - 155 million

Nintendo and Microsoft were just in a strong enough financial situation that they could afford to move on to a new generation. Sega was not.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Nah. I knew exactly zero people in Italy who had an unmodded PlayStation. So many people owned the console and didn't own a single original game. Look where the brand is today.

Pirated software still requires hardware to run, and if people like that software they'll buy the hardware. Piracy was easy and rampant on DS and PSP, and the DS was a sales monster.

People weren't interested in the DC and what it had to offer, it's that simple. Gaming was changing and the Dreamcast's main software was arcade stuff less and less people wanted to play.

 

[Zero7]

Sega clearly built the Dreamcast on the cheap too. No DVD drive, no second analog stick and the console itself was so obnoxiously noisy

 

[Captain Toad]

Sega clearly built the Dreamcast on the cheap too. No DVD drive, no second analog stick and the console itself was so obnoxiously noisy

It's remembered so much more fondly than it really deserves honestly. And I was a day one adopter.

 

[ShirAhava]

Playstation 2 was as easy to pirate as Dreamcast was. They both just needed a boot disk to run backup copies.

No it wasn't, CD based PS2 games were few and far between

And even if that wasn't the case the Swap trick didn't become a thing for PS2 until 2003-2004
around the same time DVD Burners just started to become common and even then it still wasn't as easy as the Dreamcast

Hell, I had a hard modded PS2 and it wasn't as easy to run burned games as it was on the Dreamcast

 

[darkangel-212559]

I did.

What did you think? I personally really liked it.

 

[Woggleman]

When it first came out I was working at an electronics store called Nobody Beats the Wiz which was big in the NJ and NY area at the time and it was flying off the shelves so I was surprised when it failed. I guess the PS2 came out and just crushed everything.

 

[ReBurn]

DC was missing tons of key third party studios. And no DVD drive which at the time was a big thing.

I think the only key studio that supported DC was Capcom.

All these studios didnt support them (or released hardly any games)

- Namco
- Konami
- EA
- Square

It's interesting. One of the best games on the platform was from Namco.

 

[nush]

What did you think? I personally really liked it.

I really liked it in that weird janky Japanese style, finished it over a weekend.

Spoiler

I then rejected it for a European release, as it didn't make commercial sense

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

DC died because it lacked a lot of third party support and Sega games, while fucking amazing, don’t have the mass market appeal of Nintendo titles.

 

[Soltype]

I think it was a lack of DVD, DVD was such a big boon for PS2 at the launch, it basically sold as a DVD player for the first year until real software came out, after fall 2001 it was over

 

[jigglet]

if easy access to pirated games killed platforms, PC gaming wouldn't be a thing.

It kind of wasn't though. Remember PC kind of went through a lull for a while. No one was really paying for PC software until Steam got people used to doing it. I know I pirated most of my PC games until Steam came along.

 

[Shmunter]

Check out this video….I’ve never been so glued to a real-time graph….

 

[SirTerry-T]

Sega's financial woes, the arrival of DVD and lack of FIFA/EA Sports titles.
Still a brilliant machine though...the candle that burns twice as brightly, etc.

 

[Ritsumei2020]

Theres only one reason the DC failed,

Thats on Sega. Incompetence. Plain and simple.

Sega should take a lesson from Nintendo in how to be successfull in the video game field.

1) ignore the dorks on specialised game forums, they represent 0,00001% of the game population. Yes Neogaf Im talking about you lol.

2) aim for the mass market. See the Wii, DS, Switch.

Sega had the games and the talent, it just lacked the vision and the marketing.

 

[SomeGit]

Piracy only became an issue by late 2000 (boot disk was first released in Summer 2000s, and scene dumps too a bit to catch up), but honestly from what we know from follow up interviews the decision to discontinue the Dreamcast had already been made before piracy became an actual serious issue. It was announced late January 2001, but all points to the decision being made in the 2000s or maybe even earlier, it's likely that internally the Dreamcast was almost seen as DOA unless a miracle happened when it launched.

Piracy of course didn't help, but it wasn't the main factor. DVD is another factor that is usually brought up as the main factor but that also wouldn't have saved the Dreamcast, even disregarding the huge costs it would have meant for Sega, that relied on 3rd parties to supply the hardware and would have to do it 2 years before Sony on the PS2, if people bought the console just to watch DVDs it would have been a gigantic loss for Sega since the real money is in software sales and DVD sales meant 0 to Sega (but not to Sony that had royalties in the format AND owned a movie studio, hint hint).

Sega simply didn't have the resources to keep fighting the hardware business as they were deep in the red, were surviving on huge loans with no cash reserves and their other divisions, mainly the arcade business which was one of the moneymakers before was crashing hard everywhere, especially outside Japan.

Look at the PS2, Sony had fabs to make the hardware in-house (while Sega had to outsource) and partly owned the IP to make the cheapest DVD player on the market and still were taking huge losses per unit, because they could partly because it had the backing of Sony a company N times the size of Sega with a much more healthy finances and the still very profitable PS1 alive and well, while the Saturn was on it's last legs in Japan only and dead everywhere else.

There was 0 chance Sega could compete with that in the state the company was in. Add that to the huge hype with the PS2 that made it basically sell itself regardless of initial software library, the plethora of 3rd parties fighting to have a chance to have a PS2 release and the upcoming Nintendo and Microsoft consoles and the situation was dire.

The only chance the Dreamcast had would be a Wii type of hype AND software sales to match that kind of hype OR if other Sega businesses were alive and well to fund the Dreamcast until it bounced back in the black, but sadly it never happened.

 

[Quasicat]

I didn’t know that piracy was even a thing on Dreamcast when I was in college. Games were dirt cheap at Best Buy, I could walk in, drop $50 and walk out with two or three new releases each week. I remember picking up Phantasy Star Online for $10 the week it came out, not to play it, but to play the Sonic Adventure 2 demo that was included with it..

 

[Beelzebubs]

If piracy was the reason it would have sold more retail units. Hell, a lot of the people in my area at the time had chipped PS1s or did the entire thing where you left the disc tray open and swapped games that had been burned on a CD.

 

[ManaByte]

DC was missing tons of key third party studios. And no DVD drive which at the time was a big thing.

I think the only key studio that supported DC was Capcom.

All these studios didnt support them (or released hardly any games)

- Namco
- Konami
- EA
- Square

Namco had one of the biggest launch games on the system.

The real reason was the EA boycott. In 1999, if you didn't have Madden you were fucked. Back then Madden WAS a system seller in the US.

 

[MarkMe2525]

I don't talk about it because it has been 15 years, and everybody already knows it *shrug*

Try 20 years..... getting old sucks

 

[SomeGit]

Namco had one of the biggest launch games on the system.

The real reason was the EA boycott. In 1999, if you didn't have Madden you were fucked. Back then Madden WAS a system seller in the US.

They had Soul Calibur, but nothing after. They outright refused to port Ridge Racer 4/5 and Tekken Tag Tournament, even when Sega begged for it. Namco's whole Dreamcast was basically SC and Mr. Driller, they had 0 follow up project.