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[Skifi28]

INB4 all that "SSD magic" speak with the PS5 was just marketing BS.

There's was nothing special about the SSD, it's the hardware decompression that is doing God's work.

Edit: To be fair, the SSD was quite fast back at launch.

 

[KuraiShidosha]

Cerny magic gonna be proven to be not so magical when this game is perfectly playable on a 7200 RPM bog standard HDD. Can't wait.

 

[tmlDan]

where's the, "i don't care and this shouldn't matter" option. Any conversation about this is console war bait imo

Technology advances and SSD's at those speeds are the standard now

 

[Skifi28]

Cerny magic gonna be proven to be not so magical when this game is perfectly playable on a 7200 RPM bog standard HDD. Can't wait.

Do modern AAA releases in general run fine on HDDs? Last time I tried with a few games I had tons of stuttering that wasn't there on an NVME, not to mention loading screens taking forever.

 

[Guilty_AI]

where's the, "i don't care and this shouldn't matter" option.

Defer to the 4th smart-ass response from the poll

 

[spons]

where's the, "i don't care and this shouldn't matter" option. Any conversation about this is console war bait imo

Technology advances and SSD's at those speeds are the standard now

Source? Because I sincerely doubt a majority of people are rocking NVMe SSDs that run 5.5 GB/s or faster.

 

[Braag]

SSDs are dirt cheap. If you're a PC gamer it would be very odd if you're still using a HDD in 2023.

 

[Guilty_AI]

SSDs are dirt cheap. If you're a PC gamer it would be very odd if you're still using a HDD in 2023.

I still install some retro, indie or old games on a HDD. They're very reliable and less prone to failure.

 

[RagnarokIV]

Guys, this 100% NEEDS to be an avatar bet.

 

[Snake29]

There's was nothing special about the SSD, it's the hardware decompression that is doing God's work.

Edit: To be fair, the SSD was quite fast back at launch.

Fact that people still talking bullshit to this day and downplay the PS5 SSD. You can say they haven't learned or understand it back then.

Now 3 years later, they are still trolling around about this. Yes it was never about the 5GB/s SSD speed, it was all obout the I/O subsystem and decompression hardware. Still to this day, no mainstream pc hardware or motherboard has this build in.

R&C might have some issues with pc's with slower CPU's.

 

[tmlDan]

Source? Because I sincerely doubt a majority of people are rocking NVMe SSDs that run 5.5 GB/s or faster.

I don't think it needed to be 5.5gb/s for every game, tests have shown that already for ratchet specifically.

 

[Snake29]

Cerny magic gonna be proven to be not so magical when this game is perfectly playable on a 7200 RPM bog standard HDD. Can't wait.

I don't think it needed to be 5.5gb/s for every game, tests have shown that already for ratchet specifically.

True, developing a game, doesn't mean the game needs to fully utilize every aspect at max. R&C was a launch game. Insomniac stated that R&C was developed based on unfinished hardware.

 

[tmlDan]

Defer to the 4th smart-ass response from the poll

none of the responses in the poll are valid options for picking a stance on this subject or bet

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The DF test way back said their rock bottom 3.2GB/s PC SSD worked fine when they installed it in a PS5.

I thought that was the lowest test out there, but a gaffer (I forget who) said in a more recent post that some people tested it on even slower SSDs and the game ran fine. I forget what the speed rating was but it might had been dumbed down to 2GB/s perhaps. I dont remember

 

[Mahavastu]

i guess that it will somehow run on a HDD, but it won't be a pleasure to do so and they need to rewrite it alot.

Ratchet has the advantage that it is pretty linear with mostly small levels. I guess they can do some tricks, Sata SSD for sure.

 

[Ivan]

The DF test way back said their rock bottom 3.2GB/s PC SSD worked fine when they installed it in a PS5.

I thought that was the lowest test out there, but a gaffer (I forget who) said in a more recent post that some people tested it on even slower SSDs and the game ran fine. I forget what the speed rating was but it might had been dumbed down to 2GB/s perhaps. I dont remember

That's 3.2GB/s ssd with custom i/o hardware ps5 has, not 3.2GB/s on an average pc. It's not about theoretical speeds and it's not about this game (it might even work).

Watch road to ps5 presentation, see what top people from the industry have said on the subject.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I'm going to take a guess the official minimum specs will be a SSD, but modders will figure out how to make the game run fine on a HDD.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I'm going to take a guess the official minimum specs will be a SSD, but modders will figure out how to make the game run fine on a HDD.

Find it unlikely, although i did consider it among the criteria just in case. This is the kind of thing you'd normally need access to the source code to do.

 

[Kataploom]

This game would be a perfect candidate to use Direct Storage.
Sadly, it seems it won't, considering the trailer bragged about having lot's of tech, but nothing about DS.

BTW, for transferring large amounts of data out of storage, with the old Windows file system, the bottleneck will be the CPU. Not the SSD.
So the question is on which CPU will be required.

Maybe because it's a Microsoft DirectX tech? IDK if that has to do.

BTW, I'm curious to see how it goes, not even about the game itself lol.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Maybe because it's a Microsoft DirectX tech? IDK if that has to do.

BTW, I'm curious to see how it goes, not even about the game itself lol.

But Sony is porting the games on windows, directx12 API.. why stop at DirectStorage?

 

[GHG]

This is going to be entertaining just for the very reason that I can already see who will be screeching "unoptimised" when the game launches.

 

[Games of Today]

Loading Shaders.............................................................................................. ....................................................................................... ............... ............................................... ...................................................................... 6 hours later...................

 

[Guilty_AI]

BTW, for transferring large amounts of data out of storage, with the old Windows file system, the bottleneck will be the CPU. Not the SSD.
So the question is on which CPU will be required.

For CPU to become a bottleneck, you have to assume the game requires a NVMe anyway.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

If the ssd is not absolutely necessary, it will be embarrassing for the PS5 and Insomniac.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Yeah. It will need a SATA at most. Time to put all the hyperbole to rest.

 

[winjer]

Maybe because it's a Microsoft DirectX tech? IDK if that has to do.

BTW, I'm curious to see how it goes, not even about the game itself lol.

Direct Storage is an API that can be used by anyone. Just like DirectX.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Guys, this 100% NEEDS to be an avatar bet.

 

[TrebleShot]

Erm, well on PC NVME drives have a loading screen for Spider Man Miles Morales so I imagine this will be the same if running off any drive.

 

[diffusionx]

two things can be true - the PS5 SSD and decompression system is very fast, and Insomniac was not being truthful about needing that stuff to make this game. It was just a fixed portal from one area to the next, this can be planned out and streamed in the background as games have been doing since Crash Bandicoot streaming off the disc. Maybe it takes slightly longer but the idea that it is impossible is just garbage.

 

[Holammer]

Someone will install it on an old 5400 RPM disk with bad sectors.
FOR SCIENCE!

 

[ClosBSAS]

Probably but SATA SSD is just fine no need for a high end nvme like some ppl claim. The SSD is a big step for consoles gamers, 0c gamers have had them for years, granted we never used them to their full potential, but forspoken showed what direct storage can do, less than second in loading

 

[KuraiShidosha]

Do modern AAA releases in general run fine on HDDs? Last time I tried with a few games I had tons of stuttering that wasn't here on an NVME, not to mention loading screens taking forever.

Played Cyberpunk on a old 5TB Western Digital drive. Worked perfectly fine. That was even with the "HDD mode" or whatever not in use.

 

[Snake29]

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I propose that tweaks to the criteria be made.

The whole point of these conversations was the effect on game design. Having a CPU with 32GB/ 64GB of RAM that could just act as a data cache is kinda a game design fix around the issue. The whole point was fast SSD meant Sony could get away with having less RAM since data can be streamed in from SSD on a just-in-time basis.

And I feel we should be looking at at least matching IQ profile/performance of the console on the PC. So matching fps, resolution and IQ settings. Or not whats the point?

 

[Fbh]

Lol of course it won't need an SSD.
It's all marketing bullshit like with every gen.

The transitions won't be as fast as on the Ps5 though (if you are using an HDD) .

 

[simpatico]

HDD will do it just fine.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Damage Control.

 

[Akuji]

Whats the baseline for "it does run" ? Will the game crash on an HDD? I dunno, can see it, can see it wont. Just load longer.
So the real question is " Can the game run on an HDD and your expirience is solid ( haha ) ? And i dont think so.
I would be VERY surprised if a SATA SSD isnt fast enough for the game.

Glad PC is getting such a big masterpiece title. Hopefully the maxed out settings are a cut above what the PS5 can deliver.
Game looks insane, god damn. Need to continue playing it ... but probably on PS5, dont want to pay for it again and with VRR it already runs at 70-90FPS on PS5,
good enough for what the game is on a big TV for me.

 

[darrylgorn]

 

[Snake29]

Damage Control.

Or people should've listen back then instead throwing their own bullshit around.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Or not whats the point?

Screwing around obviously. Also:

Game design relates to the portal mechanics present in the game, how they behave, how the players can use them, etc. The concept exists purely on the ludonic level, in term of game systems, rules, mechanics, etc.

Having a CPU with 32GB/ 64GB of RAM that could just act as a data cache is kinda a game design fix around the issue.

This, this is not game design. Its software design. As long as the end result is the same, no matter what software shenanigans were utilized to achieve it, the game design doesn't change.

 

[Kataploom]

But Sony is porting the games on windows, directx12 API.. why stop at DirectStorage?

I don't know, just guessing here, most probably it has nothing to do with it

 

[GHG]

The whole point of these conversations was the effect on game design. Having a CPU with 32GB/ 64GB of RAM that could just act as a data cache is kinda a game design fix around the issue. The whole point was fast SSD meant Sony could get away with having less RAM since data can be streamed in from SSD on a just-in-time basis.

The problem is the fact that a lot of the people chomping at the bit to try this on the trashiest mechanical hard drive they can find are also team 6 core CPU/8GB VRAM/16 GB System RAM. So it's going to end in tears for them one way or another regardless.

 

[Knightime_X]

I DO have an nvme drive on pc.
But I'll attempt to run it from an external drive for the lolz like I did with dead space remake.
Ran at acceptable levels. (Smooth)

 

[DForce]

Damage Control.

People said Sony lied about the SSD for Returnal, when the devs only said the SSD allowed for instant response time.

Instant world transition is going to require an SSD and there's no way around that. The question is how long it's going to take for a standard HDD to load these worlds.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

It will need to be stored on a 48GB DDR6X GPU to run just as great as the PS5 version

 

[SmokedMeat]

I’m either thinking SATA SSD or 7200rpm HDD.

This should be a fun experiment to see.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I don't know, just guessing here, most probably it has nothing to do with it

Nixxes will explore all solutions and DirectStorage is known to them

Digital foundry’s interview with them

Digital Foundry: Even then the game is loading fast. I did a loading test, just between PCs. It is not as fast as PS5, but still it is just under five seconds to load the game from the menu on nearly any modern PC with an NVME drive. It is very fast in comparison to other PC games. Still, what is actually the bottleneck in loading times on PC? Is it the IO-stack there (which even DirectStorage's first version without GPU decompression tries to address) or is it CPU limitations?

Jurjen Katsman: I am not certain if decompression is actually the bottleneck for load times as we did do some things to make decompression go faster, but we backed out on some of those that were hurting the in-game loading (streaming). As in-game (as in streaming while in game, moving around) with those decompression speed-ups in place, we were taking too much CPU away from the game. So we backed that away, and it didn't really meaningfully impact loading screens.

I think other things that do play into it probably is shader compilation that's happening during loading screens, and you mentioned BVH building before, so that is also happening. There's a variety of little things that we do on PC, some of it would be the IO stack... We have some DirectStorage experiments but especially for a loading screen we can use all the CPU for loading, that's what the loading screen is about, right? It's not that suddenly the IO stack change is suddenly going to make it go four times as fast. For in-game purposes, I think that's when when it [Direct Storage] becomes interesting, right when there's this CPU core being fully utilised just to facilitate decompression, freeing up that CPU core if we were able to do that... that would be that's an exciting future, but not where we we're at right now.

 

[Topher]

Guys, this 100% NEEDS to be an avatar bet.

Oh hell no. We have still haven't gotten rid of the current batch of monstrous avatars selected by you sick fucks.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Screwing around obviously. Also:

Game design relates to the portal mechanics present in the game, how they behave, how the players can use them, etc. The concept exists purely on the ludonic level, in term of game systems, rules, mechanics, etc.

This, this is not game design. Its software design. As long as the end result is the same, no matter what software shenanigans were utilized to achieve it, the game design doesn't change.

I disagree. To me, game design is everything that goes into designing a game. Your engine, systems, mechanic...etc.

And furthermore, I feel things like these are just glorified witch hunts. When these devs take, that stuff we refer to as PR talk... they aren't actually dying. They just aren't being very specific either.

So if a dev says, this would not have been possible without the SSD on the PS5.. what does that really mean? You find it starts making sense if what you are comparing it to is the PS4. Wou the PS4, with 5GB RAM and an HDD allowed them to design or make a game like this? No.

I am curious to see the results of this tho.