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News Windows 11: The Best Windows Ever for Gaming - Xbox Wire

Syphon Filter

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So far there are 2 thing that bother me about W11:

- stupid new "right click" menu that lacks options (at least they added refresh LOL)
- changing displays using Windows key + P works way worse than on W10 (keyboard arrows doesn't work)

Other than that system looks nice, it's quite stable and... It's just W10 with a new coat of paint :messenger_grinning_smiling:
Yea that new right click is pointless, btw the last option is the regular right click with the usual options. If they decide to leave this new right click then I hope there is an option to default the right click to the original style.
 

PaintTinJr

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It will be interesting to see if Microsoft relent on the hardware requirements - like TPM version 2.0 and CPU gen age - for custom builds to upgrade, because for an OS for direct storage, they will be cutting adrift chipsets like the Intel X79 that (DDR3)in quad channel mode yields the same or more memory bandwidth as the most recent Intel Z590 chipset using DDR4.

TPM by its very nature costs performance, because if the drive is encrypted, then decryption is more work, and more importantly makes troubleshooting drive failures a situation likely to lead to more people accidentally losing priceless data, like photos and videos of kids when they were young - that aren't necessarily convenient to store in the cloud by sheer size - because they don't understand the way to decrypt on another system. In much the same way that rebuilding a broken RAID is fraught with risks for the average user to lose data. Overclocking is also a risk to data corruption on a drive, and adding encryption to the mix may even hamper overclocking for gamers.

From a game development perspective it would be interesting to know how thrilled indie devs working on a shoe string are about needing to ensure all their equipment is newer than a few years old to use Win11 going forward.

For the TPM issue - on Intel systems - it feels like their should be a dongle by intel as a universal method of retro actively adding Intel's Platform Trusted Technology to older systems via taking up a SATA port - which I believe uses the Serial Peripheral Interface that the SPI header a TPM 2.0 module attaches, even at £100 a solution many people might take that option as make way until they need to replace their hardware for real reasons.

The problem that I see for Windows 11 for gamers, is that with steam as the major player for PC games, if gamers with impressive older systems with say an 8 or 10 Core, 16 or 20 thread chip are shut out of directStorage through Windows 11, they are going to have to spend around £1200 to get back to a similar position(along with a boost in per core performance), just for the sake of their system being unable to use a £15 item that adds TPM 2.0. And with TPM 2.0 not even being important to their computer use case, it will be interesting to see how many wait it out with win10 and consoles, and then abandon PC gaming and get a macbook or surface Pro for general PC use.
 

Hoddi

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TPM by its very nature costs performance, because if the drive is encrypted

That's really the big question because I strongly doubt that they'll enforce full drive encryption on everyone. It would make data recovery a nightmare and not everyone wants their drives encrypted.

My pet conspiracy theory is that it will be used to protect against game piracy. There is some fairly strong evidence suggesting that DirectStorage games will use virtual disk images and having those encrypted via TPM might be enough to get publishers on board. Win11 seems to be about wiping the slate clean and I don't think that's unintentional.
 
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reksveks

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My pet conspiracy theory is that it will be used to protect against game piracy. There is some fairly strong evidence suggesting that DirectStorage games will use virtual disk images and having those encrypted via TPM might be enough to get publishers on board. Win11 seems to be about wiping the slate clean and I don't think that's unintentional.
If I get better support for Play Anywhere, I am all for it. I stopped pirating games once steam came out and I turned older than 16.

Need to be more informed on the whole thing around office documents and TPM, it looks like there is something there that I don't understand and it's trying to combat ransom ware.
 
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IntentionalPun

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That's really the big question because I strongly doubt that they'll enforce full drive encryption on everyone. It would make data recovery a nightmare and not everyone wants their drives encrypted.

My pet conspiracy theory is that it will be used to protect against game piracy. There is some fairly strong evidence suggesting that DirectStorage games will use virtual disk images and having those encrypted via TPM might be enough to get publishers on board. Win11 seems to be about wiping the slate clean and I don't think that's unintentional.
What in the world would this have to do with piracy? Like Office style licenses? Ehh.. highly doubt it.
 
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Kuranghi

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I searched the thread and found no answer. Can someone who's tried W11 tell me how Fullscreen Optimisations are handled? Is it still a checkbox under compatibility or have the changed how its implemented.

I just want to know if I can still disable it for games and get Exclusive Fullscreen in the engines/APIs that support that. Cheers in advance if someone checks this out for me.
 

PaintTinJr

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That's really the big question because I strongly doubt that they'll enforce full drive encryption on everyone. It would make data recovery a nightmare and not everyone wants their drives encrypted.
...
I completely agree, but if they don't enforce it, then it exposes the lie about needing TPM v2, bitlocker and a Microsoft Account login, and If encryption is only needed for the OS drive, then they've effectively made 2 storage devices a minimum requirement to have data in an unencrypted drive - or three if we include a dedicated nvme2 drive attached to a directStorage pcie interface card like RTX IO.
 
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reksveks

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I completely agree, but if they don't enforce it, then it exposes the lie about needing TPM v2, bitlocker and a Microsoft Account login, and If encryption is only needed for the OS drive, then they've effectively made 2 storage devices a minimum requirement to have data in an unencrypted drive - or three if we include a dedicated nvme2 drive attached to a directStorage pcie interface card like RTX IO.
You don't need to encrypt everything though, do you?

You just need to encrypt the stuff that can be exploited. And you unfortunately need to have a TPM support to ensure that the pc has some level of encryption for the vulnerable files.
 
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PaintTinJr

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On my workstation, I typically use as many local users accounts as I have different roles I use the machine for - mostly because I don't like virtual desktops "out of sight, out of mind" resource usage, and also because of the Windows kernel since 2000 Pro IIRC certain programs or services can only run one instance per user account, so by using multiple accounts it is like using the same computer as multi dedicated machines for different roles, and running different instances/settings in difference accounts.

If they enforce the Microsoft account for Window 11 Pro - like it is a Android or IOS mobiles - and retire local accounts entirely, how would a user trivially setup 5 or 6 Microsoft accounts to achieve the same setup that I currently use? It just won't work IMO, and will start to break Windows' 30year selling point - productivity.

Maybe a full reset is required to make the leap to match the next-gen consoles in regards of storage on PC for gaming, but I can't help feel that it is a combination of killing off all the Intel chips that had the microcode vulnerability a few years back, helping OEMs sell hardware to replace perfectly usable hardware. And by killing off machines that occupy a large percentage of the steam survey userbase, they can reposition the Microsoft Store game offering versus Valve's steam and Epic's offering as people upgrade to Windows 11 to take market share in PC gaming revenue.

In reality. Windows 11 should just be a big service pack to 10, with no new security requirements.

Windows' biggest weakness IMHO - in a world of capacitive multi touch devices in every pocket and cheap tablets everywhere - is that touch input is such a tiny percentage of the non-commercial users on windows, and now Windows 11 requirement will kill off even more of those touch devices - all the efforts made with touch for 8 and 8.1 devices, which are TPM 1.2 at best - keeping Windows input dominated by archaic keyboard and mouse input systems for the average user for another 5years.

It all just seems poorly strategized and ill thought out.
 

PaintTinJr

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You don't need to encrypt everything though, do you?

You just need to encrypt the stuff that can be exploited. And you unfortunately need to have a TPM support to ensure that the pc has some level of encryption for the vulnerable files.
Not really, you can print out the encryption key, or you could be offered a dongle or windows 11 sold on dedicated SSDs with the technology built into the drive, but it is being done this way intentionally to kill off perfectly good hardware in a cynical way.

They could easily provide a cheap retrospective solution, but intentionally want to kill of hardware with this policy and know it will be successfully adopted by all windows users by the release of Windows 12 at the latest.
 
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01011001

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If they enforce the Microsoft account for Window 11 Pro - like it is a Android or IOS mobiles - and retire local accounts entirely, how would a user trivially setup 5 or 6 Microsoft accounts to achieve the same setup that I currently use? It just won't work IMO, and will start to break Windows' 30year selling point - productivity.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that this is only for Home edition Win11
Win11 Professional will not force you to use a Microsoft account. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure I read that
 

Hoddi

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What in the world would this have to do with piracy? Like Office style licenses? Ehh.. highly doubt it.
Think of it more as Windows Store or Game Pass applications. GP already places games into protected (and sometimes encrypted) folders but Bitlocker works on whole disk volumes. Encrypting them via Bitlocker would simply be the next logical step and significantly more tamperproof. It's hard to crack a game if you can't access its files.

But, again, I'm just speculating. The only things I've found regarding DirectStorage in the beta are some registry keys and PowerShell commands but they all reference virtual disks. I'll post them here below but none of these exist on Windows 10. They may well be completely unrelated to DirectStorage for games though.


CommandType Name Version Source

----------- ---- ------- ------

Function Add-VMDirectVirtualDisk 1.0.0.0 VMDirectStorage

Function Get-VMDirectVirtualDisk 1.0.0.0 VMDirectStorage

Function Remove-VMDirectVirtualDisk 1.0.0.0 VMDirectStorage
 

IntentionalPun

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Think of it more as Windows Store or Game Pass applications. GP already places games into protected (and sometimes encrypted) folders but Bitlocker works on whole disk volumes. Encrypting them via Bitlocker would simply be the next logical step and significantly more tamperproof. It's hard to crack a game if you can't access its files.

But, again, I'm just speculating. The only things I've found regarding DirectStorage in the beta are some registry keys and PowerShell commands but they all reference virtual disks. I'll post them here below but none of these exist on Windows 10. They may well be completely unrelated to DirectStorage for games though.

Those commands are incredibly unlikely to have anything to do with the DirectStorage API that you are thinking of.

They appear to be a reference to the "Storage Spaces Direct" concept:


Has to do with mounting volumes; find here the object under that namespace for VIrtualDisk:


So "Add/Get/Remove-VMDirectVirtualDisk" is likely just a shorthand reference for operations on:

Microsoft.Windows.Server.10.0.Storage.StorageSpacesDirect.Discovery.VirtualDisk


You guys are barking up a weird ass tree here...

The DirectStorage API is about efficiency.. not encrpytion.. and BitLocker is way overkill for protecting against piracy, and nobody is going to only release games on systems that are fully encrypted.. no offense, but just total nonsense.
 
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Hoddi

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Those commands are incredibly unlikely to have anything to do with the DirectStorage API that you are thinking of.

They appear to be a reference to the "Storage Spaces Direct" concept:


Has to do with mounting volumes; find here the object under that namespace for VIrtualDisk:


So "Add/Get/Remove-VMDirectVirtualDisk" is likely just a shorthand reference for operations on:

Microsoft.Windows.Server.10.0.Storage.StorageSpacesDirect.Discovery.VirtualDisk


You guys are barking up a weird ass tree here...

The DirectStorage API is about efficiency.. not encrpytion.. and BitLocker is way overkill for protecting against piracy, and nobody is going to only release games on systems that are fully encrypted.. no offense, but just total nonsense.
You may well be right and it's just a pet theory. Either way, the current IO stack on Windows is very slow for these types of operations and they've already mentioned bypassing parts of it including the file system. I don't how they would do that if the games are on that same file system.
 
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twilo99

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as cheesy as it gets, but it does show, once again, that they are actually going to put some effort into gaming on PC

 
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Kenpachii

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as cheesy as it gets, but it does show, once again, that they are actually going to put some effort into gaming on PC


Microsoft cancels there shit just as hard as they invest into it. So anything that ends up under microsoft belly could very well be DOA in the long run.

Microsoft shit down my throat enough to distrust anything they touch, specially PC gaming.
 
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martino

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Microsoft cancels there shit just as hard as they invest into it. So anything that ends up under microsoft belly could very well be DOA in the long run.

Microsoft shit down my throat enough to distrust anything they touch, specially PC gaming.
MS is also king at backpedaling but sadly it seems not about to happen for windows 11 and it's bad.
 
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as cheesy as it gets, but it does show, once again, that they are actually going to put some effort into gaming on PC

yeah but reality can be often disappointing

i dont see what makes you think that a well crafted trailer have any meanings that they will actually care for PC gaming?










https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxGamePa...installed_halo_games_still_appearing_in_file/

https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxGamePassPC/comments/pf8ibr/the_game_control/ (game is simply not opening when you click it. verified myself)

https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxGamePassPC/comments/pf5bnb/football_manager_21_xbox_gamepass_stuck_on/

https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxGamePa...r_message_on_launching_certain_games_windows/

https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxGamePassPC/comments/pdlqet/install_and_crashing_issues/

this is... a tiny fraction of the whole picture. i can assure you, most of these are not user error. this app is simply not functional and stable enough. it breaks for random reasons.

game pass app on pc is a wreck. and not a single entity, not a single soul, not a single reviewer have yet to talk about it...

it is hilarious how this stuff is the way it is.

i dont think it will change with windows 11 or whatsoever. imagine entering a game and the game requests 3 seperate special permissions that ties the game to your microsoft account? does this stuff work this way on actual xbox?
 
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reksveks

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game pass app on pc is a wreck. and not a single entity, not a single soul, not a single reviewer have yet to talk about it...
I haven't had an issue with the app, had one issue with an game installed on too many device though. I also only had one bug with CP2077 so might be really lucky.
 

twilo99

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yeah but reality can be often disappointing

i dont see what makes you think that a well crafted trailer have any meanings that they will actually care for PC gaming?

They are advertising gaming as part of windows, so the hope is that there will be engineering effort put into it going forward, and I am sure there will be. How successful that would be? Time will tell.

the xbox app (gamepass) works fine on win10, I haven't had any major issues and they seem to be updating it quite often, so that aspect will probably be fine.
 
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TransTrender

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as cheesy as it gets, but it does show, once again, that they are actually going to put some effort into gaming on PC

 

JLB

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yeah but reality can be often disappointing

i dont see what makes you think that a well crafted trailer have any meanings that they will actually care for PC gaming?











https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxGamePassPC/comments/pf8ibr/the_game_control/ (game is simply not opening when you click it. verified myself)

https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxGamePassPC/comments/pf5bnb/football_manager_21_xbox_gamepass_stuck_on/

https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxGamePa...r_message_on_launching_certain_games_windows/

https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxGamePassPC/comments/pdlqet/install_and_crashing_issues/

this is... a tiny fraction of the whole picture. i can assure you, most of these are not user error. this app is simply not functional and stable enough. it breaks for random reasons.

game pass app on pc is a wreck. and not a single entity, not a single soul, not a single reviewer have yet to talk about it...

it is hilarious how this stuff is the way it is.

i dont think it will change with windows 11 or whatsoever. imagine entering a game and the game requests 3 seperate special permissions that ties the game to your microsoft account? does this stuff work this way on actual xbox?


Excuse me, but which OS supports out of box the all of that?
I mean, im the biggest Apple fanboy, but thats a close garden. Let alone Linux with 2rd party hardware support, not even standard high precision mouses have basic driver support there.
Windows might not be perfect, mught even be dissapointing for some, but theres nothing that comes even close in terms of end user friendliness.
 
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They are advertising gaming as part of windows, so the hope is that there will be engineering effort put into it going forward, and I am sure there will be. How successful that would be? Time will tell.

the xbox app (gamepass) works fine on win10, I haven't had any major issues and they seem to be updating it quite often, so that aspect will probably be fine.

i also want to see it succeed, i dont even care about modding and stuff. it its stable and fine in the end, and if it can provide "click and play" experience like you get from a console, im down for it. i hope they lean down on it, because im a regular subscriber as of now, but lack of features are also saddening

- no social interface like steam or xbox
- cannot share screenshots/videos captured by game bar onto xbox feed
- profile section lacks a bit
- updates are still mandated through microsoft store, which im not a big fan of
- its still a bit laggy, dunno if its my system or not. steam etc. runs smooth and fast on my system yet xbox app seems laggy and weird, not responsive
 

PropellerEar

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you mean like how os x is a cheap copy of unix?
Not really.
What Win10 has going for it is the clear usable GUI.
There are fundamental issues with the whole OS that should be fixed rather than something that already works.

The previews of Win11 that I saw, looked like they started imitating OSX a bit too much.
 
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So far there are 2 thing that bother me about W11:

- stupid new "right click" menu that lacks options (at least they added refresh LOL)
- changing displays using Windows key + P works way worse than on W10 (keyboard arrows doesn't work)

Other than that system looks nice, it's quite stable and... It's just W10 with a new coat of paint :messenger_grinning_smiling:

Running Windows 11 in Hyper-V I fail to see what's missing from the Right-Click Menu other than things I've installed myself? Windows 10 doesn't have "Show More Options" or the windows terminal.
 
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Danknugz

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Not really.
What Win10 has going for it is the clear usable GUI.
There are fundamental issues with the whole OS that should be fixed rather than something that already works.

The previews of Win11 that I saw, looked like they started imitating OSX a bit too much.
the gui portion of os x is not open source
 

iHaunter

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I quite like the new UI; however I will not do an upgrade. Going to do a "Fresh" install!
 

Danknugz

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Excuse me, did you not see master chief blow.. whatever that was.. up??



it all goes back to Xerox PARC but... do we want to go there? ;)
it's a little before my time quite honestly and i'm sure there's other here who could wax nostalgic about it far better
 

Bernkastel

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Copy? isn't mac os an actual unix core? I thought even iOS is based on unix..
Its based on NeXTSTEP, FreeBSD and Mach, all of which derived from BSD in some form. The BSD license allows you to use them in proprietary code. They didn't illegally steal code from FreeBSD or anything like that. Windows TCP/IP stack is also based on BSD.
I hope they fix the underlying problems of Windows rather than make it a cheap copy of OSX.
Both of Windows and macOS have copied from each other.
Just like how in the mobile space both Android and iOS copy each other.
 
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nemiroff

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Its based on NeXTSTEP, FreeBSD and Mach, all of which derived from BSD in some form. The BSD license allows you to use them in proprietary code. They didn't illegally steal code from FreeBSD or anything like that. Windows TCP/IP stack is also based on BSD.

Both of Windows and macOS have copied from each other.
Just like how in the mobile space both Android and iOS copy each other.

As a UI/UX/Service design pro I'll let you guys in on a little secret: Most good designers, most of the time, don't really bother to directly copy much. However they are often heavily inspired and will take certain trends into consideration. Also, UX design is an industry and a culture in itself, people research, make use of their experience with other UIs, attending conferences etc. From my own experience I bet those rounded w11 window corners f.ex.has little to do with Apple.. I mean. some things are straight up inevitable because the industry is moving towards much the same goals. Which is why UI design often feels iterative-like. "Rules" being kept written into UX design that will make users feel more and more familiar even across UI's. And in the end it's a good thing.

IBM's Lotus Notes is a good example of what happens in UX design when you do something completely different than everyone else, because not only did Lotus Notes look horrendous, it also felt absolutely atrocious and counterintuitive to navigate, and it's infamous for that reason.
 
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Bernkastel

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according to this "tuber" the Linux integration is quite good

One of the biggest issues holding back WSL2 is the lack of GPU acceleration support. They did announce that GPU acceleration is coming soon to bring its performance on par with native Windows apps.
I hope that has been implemented in Windows 11.