I'm still don't get how Sailor V Gundam came about.
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Women And Sexuality In Gaming (Kotaku/Dragon's Crown Thoughts And More)
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
- Start date
I'm still don't get how Sailor V Gundam came about.
What's your opinion of Nether Gundam?
So racist its funny, like all of those things.
Can someone find me space sombrero.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The worldview is ethnocentric. They aren't a multi-culture who are forced to deal with issues of inclusiveness. All outsiders are gaijin.
To state the obvious!
America is a microcosm of the whole world and all its people, and seeks a way to harmonize all of them. Same with most western nations, they all have immigration policies, and the same tendency.
Japan is a private club.
Do you find how people celebrate St. Patrick's Day racist?
Honestly, I'm not sure why race comes into it. What's the term for discriminating upon a person not of your same culture or nationality?
St. Patty's day is racist against snakes.
Patrick, please.
While i lean more on the agnostic side now, there are some things from my more religious days that have stuck with me. 1 thing in particular is not celebrating holidays, birthdays ect.
So I have no Idea really what goes on that day, I am literally clueless, but if it falls in my criteria then sure.
Stop being so sexist.
I disagree. Sure "token characters" are awkward, but if we don't even have those, then stepping up to the next step is even harder.
The most popular soap show in my country had these really awkward "token" characters in the beginning, but to my amazement the show now has a wide roster of characters from different ethnic and sexual orientation backgrounds. And not just visiting characters. One might argue that these token characters force the public and the producers to accept things even if they bite their teeth while doing. People very quickly get used to new ideas and venues in entertainment.
thesolidshark
Member
OT, but those Gundam designs are awesome (what I'd give to see that Nether windmill attack). Sorry the discussion is moving towards race, but glad those pics came of it. And speaking on that "We're not a Gundam" pic, which series is that from? Is it the design of the suit that upset that guy or is there more to it? I would think Quatre's character design might be more ripe for the "This is not who I am" argument for some reason.
You should read 120 Days of Sodom.
And now, in the name of the Mali Empire, let us change topics back onto what this thread is about.
There will always be another topic until Dragon Crown releases. At that point, the "journalists" will have to decide if they still have fire to go after Activision or WB instead of Atlus.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Someone hire the Soul Calibur narrator guy to do a voice over about the endless cycle of sexism threads.
It's not a bad thing to be discussed at all, shit it's fucking wonderful that it is... but god damn some people :/
It's not a bad thing to be discussed at all, shit it's fucking wonderful that it is... but god damn some people :/
I did. And I don´t think relativism is a good point. So?
Compare the whole medium book to to the whole medium videogames if you are interested into having an actual point.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
People need to channel this debate energy into starting a game company with what they want to see. It's a perfect solution.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Moneeeey
Edit: On a funny side note, almost everyone I agree with in these types of threads are female and almost everyone I disagree with is male. I find that kind of hilarious but proper.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Speaking of money, I have no doubt a Kickstarter could use a pro-feminine portrayal message to launch an indie game company.... it's a no brainer!
I'm actually beginning a project with a friend of mine. Not far in. The main character is a young Chinese girl with a large cloak where you can only see her face and hands.
I'm completely serious.
Funny how that works out. Now lets get more games going.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I completely agree, well it really depends on the people who are on board the program. As I said before, extremist of any sort hurt what ever cause they are fighting for most of the time. It would suck to have that fuck things up/stir up drama. This is mostly on the PR aspect of it all though
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I agree with you. I find this thread full of finger-pointing victimizing over sensitive passive-aggressive entitlement, that quite frankly smells of people and individuals who would be a lot more happy if they stopped taking things so personally.
To say that someone is racist because they didn't research the origin of cultural item, further than the continent it was based from is silly. People have a right to be loosely inspired or interpret things without being accused of ill intent.
No I don't think so. In media people talk about womens pressure of being "pretty" but there is not much about the high suicide rates among young male teens and males who also face pressure from being tall, handsome and strong. I know plenty of normal white men who are so broken from the medias peer pressure.
But there is no male Oprah. There is only men-of-this-generation-are-a-bunch-of-emasculated-sissies-and-not-real-men. I think that's where the fantasy is so big.
Strong agile, tall beautiful men with nice hair in their best age. And of course looks matter a lot for men as well. Of course men have to perform. There is as much have-a-big-penis waw-waw in the media as big boobies. But how many dudes probably kill themselves every year over that?
Why is the internet not full of support groups asking for all muscular characters in games to be altered to reflect reality so people dont need to feel shame and self loathing from not even lifting-bro syndrome?
You are the definition of the problem, someone has issue with something They are over sensitive.
Who are you to even fathom, that you could decide what should or should not be offensive, or in this case raist.
And what is this insane bit about no male Oprah?
There are always JRPG's. Main characters that are socially awkward, introverts by nature, weak and not very talkative in the beginning.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I have no idea why that gif is so funny, usually when i see that show i just get sad.
Odd.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
That's why it's funny. All humor has its roots in pain, and we laugh to ease that pain.
the general video game culture is embarrassing.
Consider this:
Most popular cultures are embarrassing.
You are reading far to much into that, I know why , its the speed in which he is dancing , it looks silly. It is just taken out of context, in context of the show however it is just sad.
I know quite a bit about pain, I also know quite a bit about pain that doesn't just go away with laughter. So trust me it isn't that.
Not really disagreing, but mainstream videogaming is so many miles from a positive cultural impact away....
palpabl_purpura
Member
This tread's still going on, huh. Okay, I'll make it simple. There's plenty of eye candy in videogames for girls and guys. Just play the game and enjoy it.
Neogaf. It's a gaming site that doesn't like games! Sell, Sell, Sell!!
Neogaf. It's a gaming site that doesn't like games! Sell, Sell, Sell!!
Really? MRA arguments now?
As far as I recall, no one has suggested that women are killing themselves over their portrayal in media. Taking one stat where men are on the worse end and running with it to correlate it to whatever is an overreaction and oversimplification, to say the least.
Are you also going to say that men are killing themselves because they have shorter lifespans?
I kind of talked a bit about male sexuality in the Kamitani response thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=55836092&postcount=1781
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=55924616&postcount=1800
I don't know how well it does to explain things, and obviously everyone is different, but it's the best I can do. Not everyone would like this kind of sexualisation but there are tons of different kinds of sexualisations of women in games to appeal to whatever your preferences are. There should be of men too.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
You are very hostile in your tone tone and in your claims. It's harsh to say that another I am the "definition" of the problem. I don't think I am of such worthiness.
I don't think saying that having a issue with something is the same as over sensitivity. But that's not what is going on here. I read your post as guilt inducing trips.
There is lots of generalizations and assumptions and hand picked straw arguments, that frankly have more of an emotional basis than a logical one.
My examples illustrate inequality in the level of cater-to-my-gender. It highlights the notion that males are being left on the wayside and I am highlighting the paradox of condemning heavily influenced male focused content, when the female equivalent is not a licking bit better except that they don't have exposure from male group masculine internet groups making petitions for male focused erotic novels and for twilight characters not to be portrayed sexually when the audience is so young.
That's true, but that is still just hero's journey right. There is a lot of sexy classic dramaturgy of the weak timid hero rising the occasions to become the nr. one. That in itself has inherently a lot to do with being a man. (call to adventure, refusing the call, fighting the challenges, getting the holy grail/wisdom, confronting his fear, win/loss followed by some sort of reward that has made the character grove).
No men, are killing themselves due to their own reasons of insecurity, but you don't have that focus in campaigns, as you do with women and their media-portrayals. And that's what we're talking about here. How women are being beaten by a stick due to what content makers are making. Basically this stuff by just existing is hurting other their self image.
How can it not be strange that there is so little focus then on men taking dick enlargement pills, growth hormones to grow stronger due to their heroes in video games?
I think personally that men are not allowed in our culture to speak up against it. If a man support group really said they were offended by twilight (maybe there are??) wouldnt there be a much bigger backslash than say a sexy sexualized women in a video game? I think people would find those men to be weak crybabies badly in need of testeterone and a slap on their protein pancake ass.
And come on, man. Since Hunter/Gatherer, it's been 10,000 years of inequality and horrors for women. It's really not that strange, that with feminists and their newfound freedom over the last 50ish years, women are going over board with this-this-this-and-this-offense-me.
----
And you need to remember that being offended is fine. But the world doesn't need to adjust after what offense people. If you do, then you subsequently have to believe in changing things on other peoples offensive whims, and if you allow then, then all the fun of this world will be left by the wayside.
partyphone
Banned
The scope and scale of negative portrayals of women in media far outclasses what men face. Putting focus on women doesn't mean that nothing bad ever happens to men. Women have been an oppressed class for a long time and the problems they face need special attention otherwise they will never go away.
And I think a much bigger problem for young men is bullying and that's something that has been, rightfully, getting a lot of attention.
And I think a much bigger problem for young men is bullying and that's something that has been, rightfully, getting a lot of attention.
mentalfloss
Banned
What the hell is this? lol
Vigilant Walrus
Member
You might be right, it's just not what I have experienced in my culture. Either way, there are so many variables, perhaps also being different from place to place.
partyphone
Banned
It was an ad campaign about racist Halloween costumes and there were millions of parodies made.
here's the original for that one. at least I think it is. http://i.imgur.com/i7yt5lJ.jpg
another fine parody:
partyphone
Banned
So men are more oppressed than women in your culture? Or are women just a little bit more oppressed than men so it's not really that big of a deal? Like the wage gap between the sexes is a few cents?
Are we still arguing that the 70 cents per dollar a man makes stat is not incredibly misleading and unhelpful?
partyphone
Banned
Nope!
palpabl_purpura
Member
You may not say it, but I will- people are being overly sensitive on this issue. I will play GOW, enjoy it, and not deprive myself of my entertainment dollar because of the fleeting female sexual depiction. But plenty of guys running around in loin cloths. . so ladies enjoy as well.
What kind of guy says Kratos is not wearing enough clothes, or Hercules has an unattainable figure. . etc.? I don't even realize the such until threads like this are made. But even then, it's not even an issue for me. I think the other side should have similar thresholds. People are amplifying background noise here. It's not even worth listening to.
These threads have novel value that gets old quickly. At the end of the day, we are arguing over what? How polygons are rendered in a fantasy reality? What about gender inequalities that exists in real life? In contrast they are very real. And this is what you devote your energy to? And we are getting hot over a game? Really?
All of this can apply to a female character and "what it means to be a woman".
So mental illness and refusing to get help has nothing to do with the suicide rate? It's only insecurity from what Dudebro games and spam emails tell them they should be like? Though you are touching on legitimate coo concerns, you make a very desperate argument. You know that these harmful media portrayals and social pressures are mostly conceived by other men, right? The people who are pressuring you the most about dick size and how swole you are are other men.
So why exactly are you blaming talk about women's issues on there not being enough attention on this?
The problem is that you (and plenty of MRA guys) want to talk about men's issues at the expense and malignment of talk about women's issues. You can't accept that there can be more than one campaign, and that men and women aren't at odds with each other.
The problem isn't that they're speaking up. More men SHOULD speak up about things. The problem is what I mentioned above: the arguments are often just bad, are misdirected at women, and blame them for treading on men when they've actually treaded on themselves. It's generally very salty.
I don't think there would be much of a backlash if people made sounder arguments and acted less hostile and/or passive aggressive about it.
I don't even know what the hell a 'protein pancake ass' is.
Is it really so overboard to want more videogames they can relate to?
You could ask this of so many neogaf threads, why is it suddenly a problem now?
Yes, its true that focusing on a singular issue/'offense' is silly, tiring, and ignores the aggregate effect that is more important to discuss. At the end of the day, though, what people are saying is that games are interesting to more than one audience, so please try and address that.
God of War is tied up with a whole of other male fantasies other than just being able to bang topless women in QTEs. The whole game is a big masculine power trip - you play a physically strong (and almost entirely testosterone-driven) man who rips monsters to shreds with ease and is confronted by topless women, most of whom are beautiful, wherever he goes.
I'm not a woman. I can't say what women who enjoy the God of War games like about them. Of the admittedly few female gamers I know, none of them have played any part of the franchise. So I don't know whether they enjoy the guys running around in loin cloths or not.
Obviously no-one can tell you what to think. I'm glad that the non-sexualised nudity of Kratos doesn't offend your masculinity (this sounds more snarky then it's meant to be). That's great! But clearly there are people who find the predominantly sexualised depiction of women in the GoW franchise uncomfortable, and their views are no less valid than yours. Disagreeing with a position doesn't mean it's invalid!
I think it's important to challenge gender inequalities wherever we see them. Art is a reflection of life, after all. Pointing out problems in any entertainment media is not mutually exclusive with challenging sexism in the work place.
palpabl_purpura
Member
And you make my point exactly.
The testosterone filled, macho, dude-bro with the perfect physique IS sexualized. It's the male equivalent of bayonetta. It's an image that every man falls short of. The difference is that we are sensitized to it. Instead of trying to shun it (like we do with female sexuality), we make male sexuality mainstream and embrace it. Please don't say a male running around in a loin cloth isn't sexual because it is. Look at other commercial media- shirtless guys playing B-ball, engaged in other athletic activity, or simply doing nothing- selling anything from underwear, to fragrances. Don't say it's not sexual. What the sensible male asks is that the rest of society simply desensitizes itself in the same fashion to the equivalent female depictions. It's not easy, as it is not the norm in our western culture.
Look, some males may feel just as inadequate as females when it comes to living up to society's images. As a kid I would not look forward to shirt vs skin day. Why? Cause I was overweight, and insecure about taking my shirt off. I didn't look as good as the other guys. I felt embarrassed. Now I'm in excellent physical shape, but it doesn't change the way I felt back then.
This thing is a two way street. People just want to marginalize the other side of the coin just to get their point across. The astute observer can see right through this like a glass window. Or maybe they honestly do not realized that males face the same pressures of sexualization that females do to a good extent.
Yeah, it really isn't. It might fit a vast minority's sexual preference, but on a whole, women aren't drawn to the super muscle-ly kratos/Marcus Pheonix/John Batista look. You'd find far more women who find characters like Nathan Drake more appealing.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
and most men aren't attracted to strong confident women who are taller then them. The argument works flipped around.
The reality is that these characters, Barbie and G.I.JOE, are the same characters we grew up with as children and rely on that nostalgia to allow players to project themselves into the characters more easily.