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Writer refuse to work with a studio because none of the characters in the story are LGBTQ

Zeroing

Banned
I never had a problem with people who wanted to see more diversity in entertainment, but now people are demanding that it's in every single movie, TV show, and video game and that's a problem.

Can people just create what they want?
Oh, the writer wanted to create a LGBT character but...

Anyway being now serious. People are interpreting it all wrong. There's small groups of people who are extremists, that applies to "both sides" of the spectrum, those people make more damage than good, even if they have good intentions. Adding the internet hyper drama and here we are...No middle ground, looking at the comments here, people are clearly divided.

About the diversity in entertainment, people need to realise that in American cinema anything that would be view as queer would be censored, that lasted way over the 1960's. Also let's not forget the stupid tropes later used in movies. This is an American thing - Always go from 8 to 80. Clearly since there's no natural flow of diversity...we went from no diversity to lots of it... of course it looks forced.
Between this story and the one about the male character designer that wanted to make an ugly female character I have to ask if your game is being made virtually via Twitter
what? what is happening?
 

Hezekiah

Banned
Why does there have to be a gay person in every piece of media these days?. Do we really need 100 percent coverage of a demographic in media that only makes up sub 10% of the human population. Why can I not watch or play something these days without having to see a clear virtue signalling scene of a man or woman tongue punching the same sex.
Sub 5%, but watching some TV shows you'd think it was much higher.
 

PJX

Member
Between this story and the one about the male character designer that wanted to make an ugly female character I have to ask if your game is being made virtually via Twitter

I'll bite at your pathetic attempt at trying to be funny.

1. Two different studios. My work for the other studio is done.
2. It's not my game(s)
 

Corndog

Banned
As cringy as the writer on this story would be if the story is real, making a thread about it reads almost on the same level of attention seeking bitch attitude.
I hope you make good use of all those internet points you won OP.
Yet here you are reading and responding.
 

CGiRanger

Banned
Sub 5%, but watching some TV shows you'd think it was much higher.
Saw an article lately about how Americans at least overestimate minority groups and underestimate majority groups: https://today.yougov.com/topics/pol...ricans-misestimate-small-subgroups-population

Americans overestimate the size of minority groups and underestimate the size of most majority groups​

Estimated proportions are calculated by averaging weighted responses (ranging from 0% to 100%, rounded to the nearest whole percentage) to the question "If you had to guess, what percentage of American adults..." True proportions were drawn from a variety of sources, including the U.S. Census Bureau, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and polls by YouGov and other polling firms.
T3ppZDi.png


It's hard to believe that people think LGBT account for over 1/3 of the population when the true number is only in the single digits. So you do have to wonder how the media/entertainment is influencing that one.
 
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Corndog

Banned
Oh, the writer wanted to create a LGBT character but...

Anyway being now serious. People are interpreting it all wrong. There's small groups of people who are extremists, that applies to "both sides" of the spectrum, those people make more damage than good, even if they have good intentions. Adding the internet hyper drama and here we are...No middle ground, looking at the comments here, people are clearly divided.

About the diversity in entertainment, people need to realise that in American cinema anything that would be view as queer would be censored, that lasted way over the 1960's. Also let's not forget the stupid tropes later used in movies. This is an American thing - Always go from 8 to 80. Clearly since there's no natural flow of diversity...we went from no diversity to lots of it... of course it looks forced.

what? what is happening?
It looks forced because it is. This example proves it.
 

Keihart

Member
If you can’t discuss like an adult, don’t enter the thread.
So the OP shouldn’t post this because you say so? Go make your own thread that you actually care about and quite trying to censor others. And yes, that’s what you are doing.
OP's right to make a thread and act like an attention seeking bitch are not mutally exclusive.
Making a thread does not guarantee validation, this is not twitter.
 
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Hezekiah

Banned
Saw an article lately about how Americans at least overestimate minority groups and underestimate majority groups: https://today.yougov.com/topics/pol...ricans-misestimate-small-subgroups-population

T3ppZDi.png


It's hard to believe that people think LGBT account for over 1/3 of the population when the true number is only in the single digits. So you do have to wonder how the media/entertainment is influencing that one.
So strange. I have and do work with a number of gay people, but I'm still aware that it's a very small proportion of what are large organisations.

Transgender? I've never worked with anyone who I can see is trans or identifies as such. Similarly I see very few trans prople at bars/restaurant/gym etc, but the influence in the media is strong.
 

PJX

Member
OP's right to make a thread and act like an attention seeking bitch are not mutally exclusive.
Making a thread does not guarantee validation, this is not twitter.
Talk about being a hypcoritcal whiny little bitch with a bitchy attitude. Who fucked you over and took your lunch money today?
 

Topher

Gold Member
Saw an article lately about how Americans at least overestimate minority groups and underestimate majority groups: https://today.yougov.com/topics/pol...ricans-misestimate-small-subgroups-population

T3ppZDi.png


It's hard to believe that people think LGBT account for over 1/3 of the population when the true number is only in the single digits. So you do have to wonder how the media/entertainment is influencing that one.

Perspectives are going to change from area to area. I remember once I told a friend of mine that black were 12% of the population in the US but he didn't believe me. We lived in Alabama where the black population is around 28% and in the city of Montgomery where black population is 60%. So comparing local perspectives to national proportions doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.

Having said that, I get your point. What is conveyed on television, social media, etc. is probably also having a significant impact on how people perceive the world.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
Yeah Americans.
While European cinema has been doing LGBT movies and characters since the 1970s and nobody is saying it is forced. But of course the American culture is the "default one".

It is OK to state that you have no clue what you are talking about rather than trying to triple down with your disingenuous assertions.

Firstly, GAF has and always will be predominantly American. It is an American made site, based in America where most of its users are, you guessed it, AMERICAN. So of course things will be primarily look at from an Americanocentric point of view. This really shouldn‘t need to be stated, but you clearly needed to be told this simple information.

Now, for the „forced“ aspect there is a growing trend in modern American films, shows, books, and games of slacktivist-bent writing. We have gone from characters who are LGBT (Kaine, Emil, Bill, Ellie, Sylvando, etc) to LGBT Characters (Ellie, Lev, Mizhena, etc). The former most people don‘t have a problem with. They are beloved characters as they have time to grow, have their own aspirations, dreams, goals, and them being LGBT is secondary to all of that. It is certainly a part of their character, but it is not *the* part.

Meanwhile you have the latter. Characters who are foremost LGBT and that is all they are. They have little to no defining characteristics, little to No character growth. They are there just to meet a quota, just to appease the mentally ill on twitter. There is no depth to their characters. They just are LGBT and that is all that matters.

This isn‘t a hard thing to see, it is blatant for anyone who has spent more than a few seconds actually paying attention to the quality of writing. You have to Actively have your head in the sand to not see it.
 

OZ9000

Banned
One of the stupidest things about this "representation and gay rights" rhetoric is that it tries to pass the idea that you either are "homophobic" and "against human rights" entirely or you must be fully on-board with having gay characters and all sorts of rainbow/alphabet people in droves in ALL your stories and products.

Homosexuals should have full right to pretend parity in civil rights and human dignity. I have absolutely no objection on that and I'd count myself as a supporter of that cause.

Conversely, they should NOT be in the position to:
- force people to like them. No one OWE them appreciation or fondness and having rights doesn't mean you can dictate how others feel about you.
- demand to be "represented" in every single piece of media. Just because you have "right to exist" doesn't mean everything must become about you.
- pretend that any "cis-hetero" representation (or, you know, the biological norm) should be apologetic for its own existence and/or toward their minority for whatever reason.
- expect (let alone demand) that EVERYONE should be interested to listen about them and the "excruciating plight of being gay in a hetero-normative world" constantly.
Absolutely spot on. This is the most sensible post on the matter.
 

OZ9000

Banned
Saw an article lately about how Americans at least overestimate minority groups and underestimate majority groups: https://today.yougov.com/topics/pol...ricans-misestimate-small-subgroups-population

T3ppZDi.png


It's hard to believe that people think LGBT account for over 1/3 of the population when the true number is only in the single digits. So you do have to wonder how the media/entertainment is influencing that one.
Thanks for sharing these statistics. The fact these individuals comprise such a small proportion of the population is remarkable. Current TV/gaming trends would suggest LGBT people are everywhere.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Personal politics over corporate products already in production.

What a concept! lol

And here I thought in life people shouldn't bring their personal lives and politics to work.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Saw an article lately about how Americans at least overestimate minority groups and underestimate majority groups: https://today.yougov.com/topics/pol...ricans-misestimate-small-subgroups-population

T3ppZDi.png


It's hard to believe that people think LGBT account for over 1/3 of the population when the true number is only in the single digits. So you do have to wonder how the media/entertainment is influencing that one.
Thanks for sharing these statistics. The fact these individuals comprise such a small proportion of the population is remarkable. Current TV/gaming trends would suggest LGBT people are everywhere.
IMO, it's easy to see why these kinds of views vs reality happen. If you look at the types stats you see above, it correlates perfectly with politics (digital polls).

People in urban hubs are surrounded by poor people in bad jobs, multicultural, dont need a car as much as they have good public transit etc.... Also the ones more likely to care about doing online polls as the demographic is younger, more trendy, and less likely to be retired boring people in a small town who couldn't give a shit about doing a poll.

Although I have no proof, I'd bet that survey is heavily skewed to people living in metro areas. You can tell that's a fact by so many results being so off when it comes to money and living in NY or California - two hot spots for big jobs and money.

Another possibility can be simply from people assuming media is representative of the country. And the media shows an extremely disproportionate amount of minorities, big news or movie scripts based on NY or LA or Chicago, and nobody talking about places like Iowa or Idaho. So people assume what's on TV is reality.... as if the entire country is similar to NY or big metro hubs everywhere.
 
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I'd prefer you stay incognito, that way other devs can come and post their stories if they feel so with no fear... Maybe @EviLore takes care of those verification
Yeah I wonder if a real mod looked at his history at his behest (bc he asked me if I did, I assume he would be open to scrutiny by real mods) and looked at his credentials.
 

daveonezero

Banned
I w
Saw an article lately about how Americans at least overestimate minority groups and underestimate majority groups: https://today.yougov.com/topics/pol...ricans-misestimate-small-subgroups-population

T3ppZDi.png


It's hard to believe that people think LGBT account for over 1/3 of the population when the true number is only in the single digits. So you do have to wonder how the media/entertainment is influencing that one.
I was gonna post these surveys. The media and entertainment industries are a big part of why people think this.
 
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PhaseJump

Banned
That writer should just shrug it off and go find work at Paramount.

New Star Trek canon needs more writers to force in some representation on that post apocalyptic utopian future, where nobody is rational, everybody is emotional, gay, lewd, and opts to inflict violence to solve their problems.

VengefulOpenBooby-max-1mb.gif
 
Yeah Americans.
While European cinema has been doing LGBT movies and characters since the 1970s and nobody is saying it is forced. But of course the American culture is the "default one".
I think you might be misunderstanding what is meant by gay characters being forced in. People want to see good gay characters, which means they have depth to their personality beyond the simple fact they are gay. Realistically how they present their sexuality would probably be much more subtle unless they are extremely flamboyant, which is a perfectly fine character to do as well but only if its relevant to the story.

It’s not that the existence of gay lesbian trans whatever characters in stories is forced by definition, it’s forced when the writers decide to make their sexuality their primary defining characteristic which is not how people really are.
 

yurinka

Member
He was told sorry but the characters already have background stories and they didn't want to change it. So the guy gets upset and said sorry but I can't work here if you aren't willing to make the project LGBTQ friendly and said they were being homophobic.
Congrats and big props to your studio. You skipped a problematic person. To include or don't include a lgbt character doesn't make the game and the studio lgbt friendly or homophobic, it isn't related at all.
 
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You sure showed me.



No one is saying otherwise.
Whole thread to him deciding the job didn't suit him...alot of people in here trying to say he's dumb...alot of people are saying otherwise. If you have the ability to work somewhere that aligns with your personal world view more power to you. You posted this in here cause you know this forum aligns with the idea that him leaving is silly, so more power to you as well.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Whole thread to him deciding the job didn't suit him...alot of people in here trying to say he's dumb...alot of people are saying otherwise. If you have the ability to work somewhere that aligns with your personal world view more power to you. You posted this in here cause you know this forum aligns with the idea that him leaving is silly, so more power to you as well.

Leaving an interview for any reason is fine. Insulting those doing the interview is a different matter. He could have simply said that he wanted to work for a studio whose story is aligned with his views and left. The OP made is clear that "him leaving" wasn't the issue. I think you missed that part.
 

mortal

Gold Member
Sounds like you guys dodged a bullet tbh.
Better you go your seperate ways rather than be forced to appease him.
 
Leaving an interview for any reason is fine. Insulting those doing the interview is a different matter. He could have simply said that he wanted to work for a studio whose story is aligned with his views and left. The OP made is clear that "him leaving" wasn't the issue. I think you missed that part.
"So the guy gets upset and said sorry but I can't work here if you aren't willing to make the project LGBTQ friendly and said they were being homophobic. " If this is considered insulting OP is being more sensitive than people are claiming the guy to be.
 

Menzies

Banned
"So the guy gets upset and said sorry but I can't work here if you aren't willing to make the project LGBTQ friendly and said they were being homophobic. " If this is considered insulting OP is being more sensitive than people are claiming the guy to be.
Well if I'm a fictional novelist and I take inspiration from my own subconscious dreams, I'm not actively thinking of myself as prejudiced against minorities for failing to dream in quotas. I'll try harder next time.

What if their already developed "backstories" included previous entangled love affairs central to the plot of the story?

Does every single story need to tick all the checkboxes of representation? There's the very real slippery-slope argument of not being able to satisfy everyone.
 

Topher

Gold Member
"So the guy gets upset and said sorry but I can't work here if you aren't willing to make the project LGBTQ friendly and said they were being homophobic. " If this is considered insulting OP is being more sensitive than people are claiming the guy to be.

Nah...that's bullshit. Calling someone homophobic, racist, sexist, etc is insulting to most people.
 
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It's not forced because they are LGBTQ, it's forced because they always advertise it and make it the most important thing about them. And when some project doesn't need such labeling in their story/characters, it automatically gets labeled itself as homophobic. And because that can cause a huge damage to a project, most try to incorporate LGBTQ characters in their stories to avoid it and always make sure everybody knows they are LGBTQ in the most unsubtle ways.

How is this shit not forced?

So its your position that gay characters are ok in games as long as they dont advertise it? Well then how are we supposed to know they are gay if we aren't told in some way that they are gay?

Post examples of where gay characters in games are always advertising and making their gayness the most important thing about them. I am curious about what you consider egregious advertising.
 

BigBooper

Member
So its your position that gay characters are ok in games as long as they dont advertise it? Well then how are we supposed to know they are gay if we aren't told in some way that they are gay?

Post examples of where gay characters in games are always advertising and making their gayness the most important thing about them. I am curious about what you consider egregious advertising.
Every major character in Assassin's Creed Valhalla asks for sex.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
So its your position that gay characters are ok in games as long as they dont advertise it? Well then how are we supposed to know they are gay if we aren't told in some way that they are gay?

Post examples of where gay characters in games are always advertising and making their gayness the most important thing about them. I am curious about what you consider egregious advertising.
That's the issue in media.

Unless the plot involves the characters involved with sexuality or hooking up with a spouse or BF/GF, most characters can be anything a person believes. Just because a male or female character doesn't show their sexuality doesn't mean they are automatically straight. Think whatever you want in the character even though it makes no different to the plot. But if someone is that desperate for identity politics in media, then wish what you want.

But the LGTQ community assumes a character is straight unless the plot openly tells the world the person is gay or lesbian. So that's why it looks so obviously jammed in there. The most obvious is the "loud witty gay comedic relief dude". Rarely central to the plot, but jammed in there as an obvious gay guy whose purpose is shits and giggles. Made more obvious as he'll almost always wear bright clothes so he sticks out for even more attention.

The odd thing is the community will be the first one to claim "were just like everyone else and for many of us you cant tell if we are LTBQ".

Well ok, if that's the case then media will make characters where you cant tell if they are straight or gay. So if someone wants to pretend The Rock is a gay guy because the movie shows he never hooks up with a hot actress, then go ahead and think he's gay. Why would The Rock have to have a plot line he hooks up with a guy or openly says he likes men to prove he's gay if the LBTQ stresses dont treat them as outliers because they blend in with everyone else.

Cant have it both ways.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
"So the guy gets upset and said sorry but I can't work here if you aren't willing to make the project LGBTQ friendly and said they were being homophobic. " If this is considered insulting OP is being more sensitive than people are claiming the guy to be.

So if someone came up to you, called you a racist, a homophobe - you would be perfectly fine with that? Rhetorical question, by the way as the answer would obviously be „of course fucking not“.

You don‘t call people such unless you have *very* good evidence that they actually are. Otherwise you come across as a retarded manchild.
 
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