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[WSJ] A Generation of American Men Give Up on College: ‘I Just Feel Lost’

Reallink

Member
Both my GE and STEM courses were >70-80% female like 20 years ago, so this isn't really a new development. I was one of only 2-3 males in several classes.
 
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tkscz

Member
Honestly, who needs it? Most jobs accepts equivalent certificates and/or trainings that cost significantly less money.

Hell, I WISH I knew about CompTIA before I went to college. Cheaper, faster and more guaranteed to land a good job off of them.

Trade schools, trainings, and certificates are a much better way to go.
 

Cyberpunkd

Gold Member
The key to college is having a pretty solid idea why you’re there. Just going to get a piece of paper because you think it’s the ticket to a good life is idiotic. If you have a solid plan, go for it. Just figure out what you’re doing first.
That is a sound idea, but the perception of college is different between Europe and the US. In Europe it is still a badge of being intellectually competent, depending on the degree the things you actually learn might be less relevant. You can learn everything on Udemy anyway.
 
That is a sound idea, but the perception of college is different between Europe and the US. In Europe it is still a badge of being intellectually competent, depending on the degree the things you actually learn might be less relevant. You can learn everything on Udemy anyway.
I’m not really aware of the financial burden college puts in people in Europe. But in the US, you can easily leave a 4 year undergraduate degree program with over $100k in debt for a career that will have you bringing home around $35k after taxes. Which means you either live with your parents for another 4-5 years to pay that down as fast as you can, or you’re going to have a hell of a time getting your life started as a young person.
 
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oagboghi2

Member
This again is objectively false. You can not brute force a degree. Being 100k in debt is laughable for a BA but even so you still have to pass the tests and show retention. If they took classes that don’t relate to any use in modern society that’s on them. There are no universities handing out degrees without testing. Also the 6-7 year degree is the VAST minority of BAs most people doing that method just never graduate at all.

again if brute forcing a degree was possible then graduation rates wouldn’t be as low as they are (67% give or take)

The biggest cause of people dropping out of college is finances. Not difficulty

It's not a coincidence that as the fed have given out more loans, the number of bachelors and associates has soared.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I’m not really aware of the financial burden college puts in people in Europe. But in the US, you can easily leave a 4 year undergraduate degree program with over $100k in debt for a career that will have you bringing home around $35k after taxes. Which means you either live with your parents for another 4-5 years to pay that down as fast as you can, or you’re going to have a hell of a time getting your life started as a young person.
The US is out of scope with higher education costs. Canada is cheaper, especially Quebec where it's subsidized.

Americans will say staying local at modest colleges can be reasonable in costs. And I believe that. There's also stratospheric prices at fancy schools. I believe that too.

It's the US after all. Capitalism, people running businesses and schools how they want, and customers (students) buying (attending) which one they want.

Are schools to blame for taking advantage of naive students who are broke and cant calculate loan interest? Are students to blame for not looking into prices and career earnings potential? Is government to blame with high interest rate school loans (Canada interest rates are lower where I think some charge 0% interest)? All? Who knows.

But when you got a wild west environment, you'll get wild west results of success and failure.
 
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evolvaer

Banned
The US is out of scope with higher education costs. Canada is cheaper, especially Quebec where it's subsidized.

Americans will say staying local at modest colleges can be reasonable in costs. And I believe that. There's also stratospheric prices at fancy schools. I believe that too.

It's the US after all. Capitalism, people running businesses and schools how they want, and customers (students) buying (attending) which one they want.

Are schools to blame for taking advantage of naive students who are broke and cant calculate loan interest? Are students to blame for not looking into prices and career earnings potential? Is government to blame with high interest rate school loans (Canada interest rates are lower where I think some charge 0% interest)? All? Who knows.

But when you got a wild west environment, you'll get wild west results of success and failure.

My initial fair take reaction is why are we blaming consumers and people who want to invest in their future by being scammed at 18 into life long debt?

This is what proper regulations are for. Maybe we should do more research before buying a car, but also maybe car manufacturers should have seat belts in cars and tires that don't fall off if you hit 50 mph. We do have those laws for consumer protection, except in the case of universities and financial loan industry.

Why is the burden on the 18 year old who wants to invest in their future? Instead of handicapping our youth with predatory policies, perhaps we should seek to enable the next generation so that our society doesn't fall apart.

Instead we have boomer admins making six figure salaries sitting on boards of educational institutions and people fortunate enough to have been born where the college debt epidemic doesn't affect them. Maybe they had a father or uncle get them into a rare trade union, maybe their parents knew some one to get them into a scholarship school program.

We shouldn't have to be born in positions of privilege to ''make it''. That would be feudalism.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
My initial fair take reaction is why are we blaming consumers and people who want to invest in their future by being scammed at 18 into life long debt?

This is what proper regulations are for. Maybe we should do more research before buying a car, but also maybe car manufacturers should have seat belts in cars and tires that don't fall off if you hit 50 mph. We do have those laws for consumer protection, except in the case of universities and financial loan industry.

Why is the burden on the 18 year old who wants to invest in their future? Instead of handicapping our youth with predatory policies, perhaps we should seek to enable the next generation so that our society doesn't fall apart.

Instead we have boomer admins making six figure salaries sitting on boards of educational institutions and people fortunate enough to have been born where the college debt epidemic doesn't affect them. Maybe they had a father or uncle get them into a rare trade union, maybe their parents knew some one to get them into a scholarship school program.

We shouldn't have to be born in positions of privilege to ''make it''. That would be feudalism.
The key difference between car loans and student loans is that a car loan is for a specific known purpose immediately and the onus is on the buyer to pay it off. There's no real mass waves of bankruptcy and car loans are approved for qualified buyers. A broke person wont get a loan for a $100k car. They'll either get no loan approved or at most approved for a Honda Civic.

People dont like giant student loans because they feel its a rip off. And for people watching from the outside, they dont like it either because people default on loans, taxpayers pay it, and it seems the recent Biden administration is waiving loans for some students. So if others get a freebie, why dont they? You never see the gov come in and pay off people's car loans.

People also ASSUME an 18 year old is smart enough to make a decent academic choice when it comes to college. So if they want to get burned with a $100k bill, thats on them.

But looking at it, I agree there should be more controls when it comes to educational costs, but then again it's government. They love regulating corporations, but when it come to taking in taxes and revenue themselves they love it and nobody can regulate them as they set the rules. And if they want to jack up tuition or taxes, they just do it.

There should also be responsibility on the student to look into things at least a minimum amount. No doubt there are ones who just gun for prestigious schools or even worse do college not even knowing what they want to do yet! So why pay all this money into a program if you are wishy washy what you want? Chances are half decent you just wasted a ton of money on a program and career path you dont even like. But the kids force themselves to hurry up and do college after high school at all costs.
 
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The key difference between car loans and student loans is that a car loan is for a specific known purpose immediately and the onus is on the buyer to pay it off. There's no real mass waves of bankruptcy and car loans are approved for qualified buyers. A broke person wont get a loan for a $100k car. They'll either get no loan approved or at most approved for a Honda Civic.

People dont like giant student loans because they feel its a rip off. And for people watching from the outside, they dont like it either because people default on loans, taxpayers pay it, and it seems the recent Biden administration is waiving loans for some students. So if others get a freebie, why dont they? You never see the gov come in and pay off people's car loans.

People also ASSUME an 18 year old is smart enough to make a decent academic choice when it comes to college. So if they want to get burned with a $100k bill, thats on them.

But looking at it, I agree there should be more controls when it comes to educational costs, but then again it's government. They love regulating corporations, but when it come to taking in taxes and revenue themselves they love it and nobody can regulate them as they set the rules. And if they want to jack up tuition or taxes, they just do it.

There should also be responsibility on the student to look into things at least a minimum amount. No doubt there are ones who just gun for prestigious schools or even worse do college not even knowing what they want to do yet! So why pay all this money into a program if you are wishy washy what you want? Chances are half decent you just wasted a ton of money on a program and career path you dont even like. But the kids force themselves to hurry up and do college after high school at all costs.
The problem with comparing the car loans is multiple.

Car loans have collateral built in. The car. If you don’t pay, the bank takes the car and sells it to recoup as much as they can. But the car depreciates in value, so the bank has an obvious incentive to make sure you can pay. You would also be incentivized to pay the loan because you want to keep using the car. So beyond any impact to your credit score or future borrowing ability, everyone involved wants the loan to be repaid from the outset.

Education loans are completely different. By the time the borrower begins paying back the loan, they have already completed the service. It would be like if you bought a car, but didn’t make any payments until you were done with it. So at the end of 5 years or whatever, you started making payments on the car you had already been driving.

Not to mention that if you don’t pay your education loan, the bank can’t get that education out of your head. All they can do is take whatever you have earned since finishing school. But if you don’t have much, which you likely won’t since your unable to pay them, the bank basically turns you into an indentured servant.

Then you add in all the problems the federal government creates with the way they loan money haphazardly and it’s just a clusterfuck. Loans are given to people who have no concept of what the payments will be, who are pursuing degrees that provide them basically no avenue to actually repay them, assuming they are even able to successfully complete the degree. So they end up pursuing more school and accruing more debt in hopes more education will mean more money to pay back the loans without crippling them into their late 30s. And because no one but the borrower ever feels the consequences of this system, it just keeps chugging along and tuition just keeps on spiraling out of control, fueled by the federal money.
 
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oagboghi2

Member
My initial fair take reaction is why are we blaming consumers and people who want to invest in their future by being scammed at 18 into life long debt?

This is what proper regulations are for. Maybe we should do more research before buying a car, but also maybe car manufacturers should have seat belts in cars and tires that don't fall off if you hit 50 mph. We do have those laws for consumer protection, except in the case of universities and financial loan industry.
The solution is not more regulation. Regulation is why we are in this mess in the first place.

Government regulation is why students can get 100k into debt with no means to discharge it. Private banks with federal protections wouldn't give out these loans. Even now, getting education loans from a private bank is far more difficult than getting Stafford loans or a parent plus+ loan.
 

evolvaer

Banned
The key difference between car loans and student loans is that a car loan is for a specific known purpose immediately and the onus is on the buyer to pay it off. There's no real mass waves of bankruptcy and car loans are approved for qualified buyers. A broke person wont get a loan for a $100k car. They'll either get no loan approved or at most approved for a Honda Civic.

People dont like giant student loans because they feel its a rip off. And for people watching from the outside, they dont like it either because people default on loans, taxpayers pay it, and it seems the recent Biden administration is waiving loans for some students. So if others get a freebie, why dont they? You never see the gov come in and pay off people's car loans.

People also ASSUME an 18 year old is smart enough to make a decent academic choice when it comes to college. So if they want to get burned with a $100k bill, thats on them.

But looking at it, I agree there should be more controls when it comes to educational costs, but then again it's government. They love regulating corporations, but when it come to taking in taxes and revenue themselves they love it and nobody can regulate them as they set the rules. And if they want to jack up tuition or taxes, they just do it.

There should also be responsibility on the student to look into things at least a minimum amount. No doubt there are ones who just gun for prestigious schools or even worse do college not even knowing what they want to do yet! So why pay all this money into a program if you are wishy washy what you want? Chances are half decent you just wasted a ton of money on a program and career path you dont even like. But the kids force themselves to hurry up and do college after high school at all costs.


Fair response, however one note to be added, I wasn't comparing a car loan with a college loan. I was comparing the purchase of a car, or any product or service, with the purchase of an education. Decades of regulations have come into play with cars so they have seat belts and other futures, it wasn't out of the goodness of the manufacturer's heart. Anyone heard of Ralph Nader? He's a green party candidate people make fun of, he's also the reason cars have seat belts. He fought Ford and GM in the 70's and was harrassed and threatened by lobbyists until he won out.

College loans and government grants, colleges in general and their tuition is not regulated along with a market. This is the point I am getting at. It's like me showing up and asking you for a thousand dollars to mow your lawn. I may mow it, I may not, it may rain, maybe i'll mow half of it. But you still have to pay me.

This makes no sense, and it's due to lack of regulation. No one would pay for that service, likewise colleges are not tied to whether or not their students graduate with good paying jobs. And also, it's not easy to discern outside of ivy league schools, which schools are competent. It can be a labrynth to navigate, unless you are lucky enough to know someone who can guide you, an 18 year old thru it.

And to those saying regulation is the problem, and the not answer, this is decades of Fox news republican talking points. Regulation is literally what keeps society from being 1920's style children working in factories making 5 pennies an hour. You have zero recourse outside of regulation to advocate for yourself against a giant multi conglomerate corporation.

I know it's a sinful word, regulation. It's also necessary, but too much propaganda has twisted people's minds into thinking regulation is demonic. It is to billionaires. It's actually a good thing to everyone else.

And yes, there are inefficient regulation, and corrupt law makers and corrupt unions. But as opposed to what? Ethical corporations and ethical universities and hospital admin?
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
At the end of the day, giant student loans falls on government setting the prices. Its basically the same school and profs, but vs. a decade ago, two decades ago etc.... it was not this expensive. So something happened. Whomever sets the tuition prices at each college is treating it like the wild west of maximizing every penny even if it means huge student loans after graduation. Other countries dont seem as severe.
 

dave_d

Member
Not to mention that if you don’t pay your education loan, the bank can’t get that education out of your head. All they can do is take whatever you have earned since finishing school. But if you don’t have much, which you likely won’t since your unable to pay them, the bank basically turns you into an indentured servant.
Not banks, federal government. Over 90% of all student loans in the US come from the federal government and they're the ones that make the money off of them. To be specific this act, which was passed in 2010, is the one that finished that process.
 
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jason10mm

Member
I think the best solution to student loans is to have the college garnish your wages for a set period of time in lieu of tuition. So if you get a medical degree and they take 10% x 10 years that will work out well for them. But a women's studies is gonna have to be 50% x 20 years, which will heavily incentivize the college to down regulate those degrees. Make the college take on the burden to pay for the degree and accept the loss for underperforming majors.
 
I think the best solution to student loans is to have the college garnish your wages for a set period of time in lieu of tuition. So if you get a medical degree and they take 10% x 10 years that will work out well for them. But a women's studies is gonna have to be 50% x 20 years, which will heavily incentivize the college to down regulate those degrees. Make the college take on the burden to pay for the degree and accept the loss for underperforming majors.
This is a good idea. It incentives the universities to produce productive graduates.
 

gatti-man

Member
The biggest cause of people dropping out of college is finances. Not difficulty

It's not a coincidence that as the fed have given out more loans, the number of bachelors and associates has soared.
Managing finances is part of the difficulty yes. It is entirely possible to work and go to school with moderate debt. Again if it was easy more people would graduate.
 

oagboghi2

Member
Fair response, however one note to be added, I wasn't comparing a car loan with a college loan. I was comparing the purchase of a car, or any product or service, with the purchase of an education. Decades of regulations have come into play with cars so they have seat belts and other futures, it wasn't out of the goodness of the manufacturer's heart. Anyone heard of Ralph Nader? He's a green party candidate people make fun of, he's also the reason cars have seat belts. He fought Ford and GM in the 70's and was harrassed and threatened by lobbyists until he won out.

College loans and government grants, colleges in general and their tuition is not regulated along with a market. This is the point I am getting at. It's like me showing up and asking you for a thousand dollars to mow your lawn. I may mow it, I may not, it may rain, maybe i'll mow half of it. But you still have to pay me.

This makes no sense, and it's due to lack of regulation. No one would pay for that service, likewise colleges are not tied to whether or not their students graduate with good paying jobs. And also, it's not easy to discern outside of ivy league schools, which schools are competent. It can be a labrynth to navigate, unless you are lucky enough to know someone who can guide you, an 18 year old thru it.

And to those saying regulation is the problem, and the not answer, this is decades of Fox news republican talking points. Regulation is literally what keeps society from being 1920's style children working in factories making 5 pennies an hour. You have zero recourse outside of regulation to advocate for yourself against a giant multi conglomerate corporation.

I know it's a sinful word, regulation. It's also necessary, but too much propaganda has twisted people's minds into thinking regulation is demonic. It is to billionaires. It's actually a good thing to everyone else.

And yes, there are inefficient regulation, and corrupt law makers and corrupt unions. But as opposed to what? Ethical corporations and ethical universities and hospital admin?
This is a lie. They are regulated. There are regulations in place dictating how much federal aid you can get, how they can be discharged, who can give them out, what even counts as a college in the first place. Their are also regulations dictating how federal and private loans can be paid back

92% of student loans are owned by the Dept of Education. That's not "Fox News", that's reality.

Federal Student Loan Debt​

While 30% of undergraduates borrow money from the federal government, the total amount they borrow accounts for 92.6% of student loan debt.

  • 42.9 million Americans owe a total of $1.57 trillion.
  • They each owe an average of $36,510 in federal loans.
  • 52.8% of federal student loan debt is in Stafford Loans.
  • 18.6% of federal debt is in subsidized Stafford loans; 34.2% is in unsubsidized Stafford loans
  • 35.5% of federal student loan debt is in direct consolidated loans.
  • 6.4% of student loan debt is from Parent PLUS loans, borrowed by parents on behalf of their children.
  • 5% of student loan debt is from Grad PLUS loans going to graduate or professional students.
  • 0.4% of student loan debt is from Perkins loans.
  • The federal government loans an annual total of $45.3 billion to 44.4% of all postsecondary students (including graduate and professional students).
  • The ED budgets $77 billion for federal direct student loans and $13.3 billion for FFEL loans.
  • The ED budgets $90.2 billion for all loan programs, leaving $44.9 billion leftover after distribution to students.

Private Student Loan Debt​

Private loan borrowing constitutes 8.4% of the outstanding student loan debt.

  • The national private student loan balance is $137 billion.
  • 88.5% of that balance is for undergraduate loans while 11.5% is for graduate student loans.
  • 13% of students use student loans from a private source, such as a bank or credit union.
Are you asking the federal government to pass regulations against...itself
 
That’s a nice fantasy. This hopeful idea that men and people in general will become so uneducated that jobs are forced to lower requirements. OR will the market just tighten and become a hard barrier for those without. More women are going to college and less men. Also companies will just hire outside the country.

Oh man what college did you go to lol. “Just do your assignments and you will get a degree” LOL. That’s what high school is not college. College is you get a midterm and a final pass or fail bitch. It separates the committed from the non committed. The reliable from the people who can’t be bothered to take their work home. A BA from a quality school means something absolutely. Go to UT and get through the first two years and tell me you weren’t overcoming adversity and stressed out. The hardest years of my life were the college years. Granted I worked and didn’t take out much loans but still.
Never had too much of an issue with university. It was pretty damn easy and I was in a competitive program and a highly rated school. Same thing with my Masters. Worked about 20- 25 hours a week too to help pay for it.

That being said, the first year of university was a complete shit show for me. I was drunk 24/7, partied all the time, and missed class so I failed a few courses which really opened my eyes. But that was me being a dickhead, not the school.

I certainly wouldn't call them the hardest years of my life at all though. It wasn't that bad in my experience.
 

gatti-man

Member
Never had too much of an issue with university. It was pretty damn easy and I was in a competitive program and a highly rated school. Same thing with my Masters. Worked about 20- 25 hours a week too to help pay for it.

That being said, the first year of university was a complete shit show for me. I was drunk 24/7, partied all the time, and missed class so I failed a few courses which really opened my eyes. But that was me being a dickhead, not the school.

I certainly wouldn't call them the hardest years of my life at all though. It wasn't that bad in my experience.
You were in a “highly rated” school but failed a few classes and wasn’t removed? Most high end schools have a B grade standard. For example if you have below a B average (4.0) you are placed on scholastic probation then removed. Failing even 2 classes should essentially doom you in a high end school.

if you only worked 20-25 hours a week to “help Pay for it” you’re being dishonest about how expensive it is to live on your own and pay for schooling even with loans. Idk it’s hard to take your post seriously at all.
 
If your family can afford it, go to college. If it will put you into great debt, hold off until you can afford it.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
It can be expensive in the US, so all I can say is it's up to the student (and parents too with guidance) whether it's worth doing considering costs and career path.

It's not like schools and government are going to change tuition fees and student loans rates tomorrow.

Some career paths require formal education. Anything to do with medicine, law, engineering, and science for sure need a piece of paper. Some other careers not so much. Some careers pay more than others, and some are skewed to cities. If you are advertising major, you arent going to find too many big ad agencies in Bumfuck Saskatchewan. You're going to be in a major city. So that adds to costs of living.

As many of us know, the biggest research should be upon those students interested in arts programs. Lets face it. You might be able to score a good job, but in reality a bunch of students graduating with history majors vs. business grads vs. STEM grads, the history buffs will likely have a shittier time finding a good paying job unless you are focused on being a teacher, and the board you are gunning for pays well (Ontario teachers board).

Problem is high school grads get all amped up about college, living on dorm and excitement about the next step in life. Makes sense. But it's getting to a point you have to get a job and move away from home. And you better be set. The time of sitting at home as a high school student leaching off mom and dad are ending soon. So the best step forward is a career that paves the way. Or else you're back at mom's place till your 40. At that point you might as well just live at home forever, wait for your parents to kick the bucket and get the house for free (assuming they gift it to you).
 

p_xavier

Authorized Fister
Not true. Academic rigor is fully intact at competitive universities and in STEM programs virtually everywhere. "Studies" majors are easier than most other options, but there have always been useless, lower effort majors at schools, e.g. Communications.
Grants are now given to "decolonize" STEMs, at least in Canada. So now math professors, if they want funding, need to resort to study how shamans would do algebra in a deconstructed view. Pathetic really.
 

TheDreadBaron

Gold Member
I love the dual system here in Switzerland, you can work and later still go to a technical university to become an expert in your job.

Also, it takes a lot of leverage from universities, you have several routes towards your future.
That sounds cool! I remember salespeople being allowed into my high school to give us a presentation about why we should go to college. Guess what the number one reason was? You’re gonna make so much more money! Everyone nodded in agreement, ah yes you make more money going to college is an inarguable good then. It stunk like a sales pitch, and it really turned me off.
 

Bragr

Member
The modern University in America is just another business that will happily take as many dollars from you as they can get. What a racket.
All Universities are like this, it's systemic. The entire school system lacks reason. You learn what you find interesting from working different jobs, but people are expected to make important calls on their careers before they even had jobs at all, when they are teenagers.

And today, people don't work as much when they are teenagers, they go into Universities still as infants, aimlessly taking courses just so they got something to do.
 

dr_octagon

Member
Turns out America’s Hat is a fedora.
M'Business Administrator
black and white comedy GIF by Turner Classic Movies
 
You were in a “highly rated” school but failed a few classes and wasn’t removed? Most high end schools have a B grade standard. For example if you have below a B average (4.0) you are placed on scholastic probation then removed. Failing even 2 classes should essentially doom you in a high end school.

if you only worked 20-25 hours a week to “help Pay for it” you’re being dishonest about how expensive it is to live on your own and pay for schooling even with loans. Idk it’s hard to take your post seriously at all.
Honestly, I don't care how seriously you take my post as it's not your life. There ismore to the story obviously but I don't think it needs to be shared.

Just cause you had some issues doesn't mean everyone else had the same issues. You probably also did better than you think too. University itself, isn't that hard. Had tons of time with friends, met my wife, and had a great time. I'm sure you had a great time too.
 
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If a male student has FINANCIAL support to get through college where 80% of the tuition is paid off with hardly any debt, then it is worth it. Financial support = parents, family relatives, scholarships, sponsorships. I think more men are realizing the importance of FINANCIAL education. Being in debt is extremely debilitating. I have close to $200,000 worth of federal student loan debt that cannot be forgiven. I am working full time, with benefits related to my profession. However, looking back it was NOT worth it. Having a Bachelors, Masters, Ph.D does NOT determine your financial success.

Here is my advice:
-Graduate from high school as early as possible. Have FINANCIAL goals, such as:
-Saving up to buy a condo/house and owning a piece of property
-Saving up to buy a decent car
-Stretching every penny of your paycheck aka being frugal (assuming you have a 9-5 job)
-Having ZERO debt: no credit card debt, mortgage debt, student loan debt, car loan debt, or any kind of debt.
-Have multiple streams of income besides just having a 9-5 job
-Most critical: Learn about investing and residual income.
-Ignore people: Focus on yourself and your financial goals. You dont need to justify what you are doing to anybody for any reason, and stay in your lane. It doesnt matter if a person has Ph.D. in astrophysics. No relevance to your financial freedom.
-Have mentors who will help you in many facets of your life: finances, health, relationships etc.
-Learn how to master an account sheet of money going in versus money going out. Small business and business in general do that, and if they dont do that-they fail. Do that with your own personal finances.

Hope my post inspires someone lol
 
The American education system is garbage for multiple reasons:

-Liberal Art credits needed to obtain the degree you need which has nothing to do with your major (especially related to STEM field)
-Liberal Art classes are mostly propaganda fueled by misguided leftist ideologies like feminism
-Rising Tuition costs
-Garbage Professors
-Rising costs of supplies: books, etc
-Dedicated investment of time for projects, studying and preparing for tests, papers and not having time for anything else.
-Extremely difficult to have a part time job or a full time job while trying to finish your major (no income coming in)

College and Universities are NOT worth it.
 

dave_d

Member
The American education system is garbage for multiple reasons:

-Liberal Art credits needed to obtain the degree you need which has nothing to do with your major (especially related to STEM field)
-Liberal Art classes are mostly propaganda fueled by misguided leftist ideologies like feminism
-Rising Tuition costs
-Garbage Professors
-Rising costs of supplies: books, etc
-Dedicated investment of time for projects, studying and preparing for tests, papers and not having time for anything else.
-Extremely difficult to have a part time job or a full time job while trying to finish your major (no income coming in)

College and Universities are NOT worth it.
You missed one. Your college or university may think they're actually in the research business and undergrad education is something they do on the side because they have to. (Not because they think it's their actual job.)
 
I think this is also one of the reasons why there are more scientists, mathematicians, health care professionals and coders from India and China, because their education system gets right to the point of what they are majoring in. I am not sure if their colleges and universities are for profit and run like businesses like in America, and I am not sure if the students tuitions are mostly covered by the government.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I think this is also one of the reasons why there are more scientists, mathematicians, health care professionals and coders from India and China, because their education system gets right to the point of what they are majoring in. I am not sure if their colleges and universities are for profit and run like businesses like in America, and I am not sure if the students tuitions are mostly covered by the government.
I don't now how it works overseas either (and too lazy to check), but I think one reason why in the US you get so many arts majors who try to wing it with a degree that is tough to score decent careers and pay is simply because of the nature of the US itself.

A lot of money floating around. First world. Let other people do the hard work. Too lazy to think forward into loans and compounding killing loan interest.

Let the keeners and foreigners do the tough shit, while I sit back and hopefully score a cushy high paying office job with my history major degree. These people probably think all IT dept workers and foreigners who cant speak English well are all idiots making minimum wage.
 
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gatti-man

Member
Honestly, I don't care how seriously you take my post as it's not your life. There ismore to the story obviously but I don't think it needs to be shared.

Just cause you had some issues doesn't mean everyone else had the same issues. You probably also did better than you think too. University itself, isn't that hard. Had tons of time with friends, met my wife, and had a great time. I'm sure you had a great time too.
You don’t care bc you can’t back it up. I’m sure there is more to the story that’s my entire point. And again your story is definitely missing relevant points. Glad you had a good time while failing classes at a difficult college and not being thrown out LOL. Write me another story very creative.

The American education system is garbage for multiple reasons:

-Liberal Art credits needed to obtain the degree you need which has nothing to do with your major (especially related to STEM field)
-Liberal Art classes are mostly propaganda fueled by misguided leftist ideologies like feminism
-Rising Tuition costs
-Garbage Professors
-Rising costs of supplies: books, etc
-Dedicated investment of time for projects, studying and preparing for tests, papers and not having time for anything else.
-Extremely difficult to have a part time job or a full time job while trying to finish your major (no income coming in)

College and Universities are NOT worth it.

Tell me you’ve never been to college without telling me you’ve never been to college. I can’t think of a single time in my entire college life I was ever pushed leftist ideals or feminism in class. Not once. Outside of class by students sure, in class? No. That’s some Fox News bs.

professors being garbage is again bs unless you’re going to some for profit online school. Public schools tend to be very high quality.

my old school has gone up 1k per semester in like 15 years. Most quoted rising costs are because people group in rent and bills. Public tuition hasn’t gone up that much. Private sure but that’s on people going there.

getting a job while going to school is part of the experience. Financial responsibility a d prioritization of time. Or just mire yourself in debt. Your choice.
 
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You don’t care bc you can’t back it up. I’m sure there is more to the story that’s my entire point. And again your story is definitely missing relevant points. Glad you had a good time while failing classes at a difficult college and not being thrown out LOL. Write me another story very creative.



Tell me you’ve never been to college without telling me you’ve never been to college. I can’t think of a single time in my entire college life I was ever pushed leftist ideals or feminism in class. Not once. Outside of class by students sure, in class? No. That’s some Fox News bs.

professors being garbage is again bs unless you’re going to some for profit online school. Public schools tend to be very high quality.

my old school has gone up 1k per semester in like 15 years. Most quoted rising costs are because people group in rent and bills. Public tuition hasn’t gone up that much. Private sure but that’s on people going there.

getting a job while going to school is part of the experience. Financial responsibility a d prioritization of time. Or just mire yourself in debt. Your choice.
finding dory GIF


Yes, I'm sure are 100% right in all of this.... Or not but whatever.

It's ok you had trouble at school. I'm not trying to be a jerk either, it's literally ok.
 

oagboghi2

Member
You don’t care bc you can’t back it up. I’m sure there is more to the story that’s my entire point. And again your story is definitely missing relevant points. Glad you had a good time while failing classes at a difficult college and not being thrown out LOL. Write me another story very creative.



Tell me you’ve never been to college without telling me you’ve never been to college. I can’t think of a single time in my entire college life I was ever pushed leftist ideals or feminism in class. Not once. Outside of class by students sure, in class? No. That’s some Fox News bs.

professors being garbage is again bs unless you’re going to some for profit online school. Public schools tend to be very high quality.

my old school has gone up 1k per semester in like 15 years. Most quoted rising costs are because people group in rent and bills. Public tuition hasn’t gone up that much. Private sure but that’s on people going there.

getting a job while going to school is part of the experience. Financial responsibility a d prioritization of time. Or just mire yourself in debt. Your choice.
Millions and millions of people will tell you otherwise, but sure your one anecdotal experience in college is the only one that matters.

holy shit.

The Rock Reaction GIF by WWE


Also your public university tuition cost has gone up 1k in 15 years? I want to see proof
 
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Millions and millions of people will tell you otherwise, but sure your one anecdotal experience in college is the only one that matters.

holy shit.

The Rock Reaction GIF by WWE


Also your public university tuition cost has gone up 1k in 15 years? I want to see proof
He’s just talking out his ass now. 1k since 2006? Why is he talking about “good” schools like he knows anything then? Because no school considered high quality has only seen a 1k tuition increase in 15 years.
 

bigedole

Member
As someone who has worked in the CPU design industry for almost 10 years now and actively participates in interviewing candidates for my current company, I can tell you my field (Electrical Engineering ASIC design) is starved for US born college grads. Probably 80% of the candidates I interview were born in India or China and a few years ago HR publicly announced they are looking for more US applicants. If you can get this degree it is almost a shoo in that you will find a job in my field. Hiring has exploded over the last 5 years with several big companies entering the space and it is simply impossible to fill all of the positions we need filled.

I think if someone went to your HS 20-25 years ago and said "Just go to college, you will be better off guaranteed." they would have been correct at that point in time. I don't think the administrative and degree bloat had started to become so monstrous until the early 2000s.
 
I think a lot of the problem is our HS "guidance councilors" might as well be replaced with a cardboard cutout and speaker looping, "Go to college or you'll never amount to anything."

There is no reason students with poor academic performance should be pushed into college where they're virtually certain to drop out after $20,000. They should be going to vocational schools where they can learn meaningful, practical skills.
 
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manfestival

Member
Tell me you’ve never been to college without telling me you’ve never been to college. I can’t think of a single time in my entire college life I was ever pushed leftist ideals or feminism in class. Not once. Outside of class by students sure, in class? No. That’s some Fox News bs.

professors being garbage is again bs unless you’re going to some for profit online school. Public schools tend to be very high quality.

my old school has gone up 1k per semester in like 15 years. Most quoted rising costs are because people group in rent and bills. Public tuition hasn’t gone up that much. Private sure but that’s on people going there.

getting a job while going to school is part of the experience. Financial responsibility a d prioritization of time. Or just mire yourself in debt. Your choice.
Not speaking for his experience but my roommate tells me stories all of the time about these kind of things happening to him. We even talked last night about a time that communism was pushed onto him in his school.
The point is, that is your anecdotal experience but it does not discount everyone else.
 
Grants are now given to "decolonize" STEMs, at least in Canada. So now math professors, if they want funding, need to resort to study how shamans would do algebra in a deconstructed view. Pathetic really.
Grants? Oh no. Anyway.

Pathetic? Are you saying studies are pathetic?

Decolonization sounds quite interesting for Canadian fundamental basic education in that it opens math learning opportunities through creative uses and establishes mathematical community connections for Indigenous kids. On topic, this would be regardless of gender, although in any case it seems unlikely to discourage the college aspirations of American men unless it does provide a competitive edge for applicants in the future. It wouldn't seem to be "a thumb on the scale" as described in the op at any rate.

...the difference between normal mathematics and formal mathematics is that the former accepts empirical evidence (1+1=2 because one chair and one chair makes two chairs), while Russell required 378 pages to prove the same equation because formal mathematics prohibits empirical evidence.
“Science uses math – Changing math changes science,” he said, criticising the view that the formal mathematics community is solely authorised to decide what mathematics is taught.
He said decolonising mathematics means curricula decisions are made locally, are transparent, and they enable teachers to be accountable to their immediate society and ensures teachers can publicly explain why they teach what they do.

Each of the project teams, which include Indigenous artists and educators from local communities, link art forms such as beading, birch bark basket-making and moccasin-making with mathematical concepts including algebraic, proportional and spatial reasoning. For example, as students design and create their own beaded bracelets, they learn about the relationships between wrist measurements, bead size and pattern dimensions, and how to make adjustments to get the desired results. In some projects, students even learn coding skills, enabling them to explore even more pattern permutations.

“In speaking to teachers and students, I’ve found that the way they’re thinking about math now is different—much deeper and richer—than before,” says Beatty.
With funding support from SSHRC—an Indigenous Research Capacity and Reconciliation Connection Grant, a Connection Grant, and an Insight Development Grant—the project has grown
Sounds like an ongoing project that only started in the last couple years. Coding could get pretty complex by high school. And "the grants" sound specifically related to Indigenous research.
 
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evolvaer

Banned
This is a lie. They are regulated. There are regulations in place dictating how much federal aid you can get, how they can be discharged, who can give them out, what even counts as a college in the first place. Their are also regulations dictating how federal and private loans can be paid back

92% of student loans are owned by the Dept of Education. That's not "Fox News", that's reality.


Are you asking the federal government to pass regulations against...itself

Everything you've said is taken out of context, a lie, or misconstrued.


There are regulations for taking out loans in the benefit of free money to academic institutions. There are less regulations actually protecting the students of federal grants and loans when they get a college degree, and cannot get a job, or do get a job which pays much less than the supposed degree is worth.

These are not regulated. I repeat, these are NOT regulated.
We have an entire generation of people that went to college, graduated into the 2008 recession where NO ONE was hiring, got warehouse jobs and uber jobs, then once the economy picked back up newer graduates were hired in professional industries.

And the people who graduated into the great recession are still paying down their college debt for something that wasn't their fault. The colleges were already paid, regardless. Private loan companies or thru federal loans.

There are no regulations protecting people from this. So stop lying and stating figures out of context. Turn off fox news.
 

oagboghi2

Member
Everything you've said is taken out of context, a lie, or misconstrued.
You're still talking nonsense.

There are less regulations actually protecting the students of federal grants and loans when they get a college degree, and cannot get a job, or do get a job which pays much less than the supposed degree is worth.
What are you talking about? There are protections for borrowers and regulations for the servicers of the loans. Many of which are covered in Title VI of the HEA. For example student loans are one of the few loans in America where you have IBR. You are guaranteed access to loans.


The bolded is especially stupid. What exactly is the government suppose to regulate there? Does the college have to pay for you to be employed?

And the people who graduated into the great recession are still paying down their college debt for something that wasn't their fault. The colleges were already paid, regardless. Private loan companies or thru federal loans.
Again, what? Are colleges supposed to be held responsible for the overall job market?

You pay for school, to earn a degree that symbolizes to the job market you have a certain level of knowledge and skill. That's it. It is not a guarantee you will be gainfully employed.

There are no regulations protecting people from this. So stop lying and stating figures out of context. Turn off fox news.
Protecting people from what? A bad economy? Unemployment?


You're essentially saying "people are unemployed, so regulate universities"...that makes no sense.


Stop bitching about fox news and read a book
 
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