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[giga]

As hiring accelerates and the labor market tightens thanks to a steady U.S. recovery, employers who need low-skilled workers are increasingly struggling to fill vacancies. One big reason: Mexican workers, who form the labor backbone of industries like hospitality, construction and agriculture, are in short supply.

Annual inflows of undocumented immigrants from Mexico have slowed to about 100,000 a year since 2009, from about 350,000 a year in the mid-2000s and more than half a million in the late 1990s and early 2000s, estimates the Pew Research Center. Apprehensions by the U.S. Border Patrol of Mexicans and other foreigners entering illegally declined to 337,117 last year, the least since 1971.

“Mass migration from Mexico is over,” says Pia Orrenius, senior economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, who studies migration. “Low-skilled labor will never be as plentiful again.”

Multiple factors are behind the decline. Mexican families are smaller and their children are better educated; some Mexican states have launched campaigns to discourage youngsters from making the perilous journey north; and smugglers are commanding higher prices to get migrants through territory often controlled by drug gangs and across a far more secure border than ever before.

In the U.S., an aging population, the physically demanding nature of many blue-collar jobs and the trend toward pursuing college degrees compound the labor shortage. At the same time, Congress has failed to reach a compromise policy on immigration to address employer needs for a steady, legal workforce.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/small-b...o-few-mexicans-in-u-s-not-too-many-1480005020

 

[Lord Fagan]

Sorry. Too busy being Great Again.

 

[Colonel Nasty]

No shit, Joe Oilfield doesn't want work in a field for minimum wage.

 

[Guevara]

No sympathy; if you have trouble filling job vacancies, raise wages.

 

[Slayven]

Georgia had this problem, passed a crazy anti immigrant law a few years back and mexicans disappeared. Come harvest time there was no one to pick the crops, and no one local wanted to do the job

 

[Armoured Priest]

Georgia had this problem, passed a crazy anti immigrant law a few years back and mexicans disappeared. Come harvest time there was no one to pick the crops, and no one local wanted to do the job

I seem to recall they ended up using convicts to do the work.

 

[studyguy]

I can't recall the last time we didn't have a farmhand labor shortage out here in California btw. If you need a job desperately, you can literally walk out to a ton of fieldhands and get a job on the spot atm out here. People aren't willing to pull that hard on their bootstraps though so /shrug.

"Of the 300 workers I have in the field, two are Americans," said Joe Del Bosque, a farm owner in Firebaugh, California.

 

[Strike]

Quelle surprise. It will get worse if the economy goes to shit again over the next few years.

Georgia had this problem, passed a crazy anti immigrant law a few years back and mexicans disappeared. Come harvest time there was no one to pick the crops, and no one local wanted to do the job

Yeah, I think Vice covered that.

 

[Robdraggoo]

No sympathy; if you have trouble filling job vacancies, raise wages.

I'm not sure that's the problem. Farmers particularly have stated they would hire and pay more for legal American workers but that they simply can't handle the work and quit after just a few days.

Agriculture is our biggest contributor to our national GDP. If they can't get workers it tanks.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Georgia had this problem, passed a crazy anti immigrant law a few years back and mexicans disappeared. Come harvest time there was no one to pick the crops, and no one local wanted to do the job

working for farmers is a time I don't look back fondly on.

 

[Sinfamy]

We already have work visas in place.
Expand that to agriculture only jobs for 6 months.
If you overstay your welcome, you lose that ability forever.

Hiring illegal workers is bad for everyone.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

I seem to recall they ended up using convicts to do the work.

Wow. What's the next step after that? Compulsory agricultural civil service?

 

[Wereroku]

I can't recall the last time we didn't have a farmhand labor shortage out here in California btw. If you need a job desperately, you can literally walk out to a ton of fieldhands and get a job on the spot atm out here. People aren't willing to pull that hard on their bootstraps though so /shrug.

Actually the article you just posted said the biggest reason they can't get US workers is because of the temporary and migratory nature of the job. Few people want to move constantly every year.

I'm not sure that's the problem. Farmers particularly have stated they would hire and pay more for legal American workers but that they simply can't handle the work and quit after just a few days.

Agriculture is our biggest contributor to our national GDP. If they can't get workers it tanks.

Did you read the article? The hard work is a factor but most people avoid it because it's all short term employment and you have to move constantly.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I'm not sure that's the problem. Farmers particularly have stated they would hire and pay more for legal American workers but that they simply can't handle the work and quit after just a few days.

Agriculture is our biggest contributor to our national GDP. If they can't get workers it tanks.

Yep
As it turns out, most Americans have no desire to do a job involving heavy amounts of manual labor

 

[valkillmore]

No sympathy; if you have trouble filling job vacancies, raise wages.

Yeah I'm pretty much with you. How about businesses reevaluate their entire structure and see if they can't raise the wages for the positions they're so desperate to fill. Look within.

 

[studyguy]

Actually the article you just posted said the biggest reason they can't get US workers is because of the temporary and migratory nature of the job. Few people want to move constantly every year.

There's a variety of reasons, but it's still a job. I don't look down on the pickers out here since they're busting their asses for pennies. People want to say raise wages too but you do that and the farmers go out of business as buyers will just opt to purchase cheap as shit imported produce or markets will balk at raised produce prices.

Agriculture prices are as much of a race to the bottom as any, but it's still a job that needs to be done and historically hasn't been done by Americans out here in a while. A job being migrant by nature doesn't mean it's not worth doing.

 

[sphagnum]

Wow. What's the next step after that? Compulsory agricultural civil service?

Ah yes, a Trumpian Down to the Countryside Movement.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

I can't recall the last time we didn't have a farmhand labor shortage out here in California btw. If you need a job desperately, you can literally walk out to a ton of fieldhands and get a job on the spot atm out here. People aren't willing to pull that hard on their bootstraps though so /shrug.

And costs keep rising. Two weeks ago, California said it will expand its overtime rules to include migrant farm workers starting in 2019. That means farm owners will have to pay one and half times the employee's regular rate after they have worked a certain number of consecutive hours.

With increased competition for labor, workers are also asking for and winning better working conditions, such as a 15-minute shade break for each hour of work.

The nerve!

I mean, I can't imagine it's a job people aspire to, so if they're finding better jobs elsewhere (in Mexico or here), then good for them I guess?

It seems like "Big Farm" has gotten their cake and been eating it too for a while now.

 

[NoRéN]

Georgia had this problem, passed a crazy anti immigrant law a few years back and mexicans disappeared. Come harvest time there was no one to pick the crops, and no one local wanted to do the job

But I keep hearing about great white people are and how much they like to roll up their sleeves and such. Was I lied to?

 

[studyguy]

The nerve!

I mean, I can't imagine it's a job people aspire to, so if they're finding better jobs elsewhere (in Mexico or here), then good for them I guess?

It seems like "Big Farm" has gotten their cake and been eating it too for a while now.

Canada actually flies workers out from Mexico to work on their farms. As far as attracting immigrant farmhand labor specifically, US has been taking an L for a good couple of years.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

This.

We shouldn't encourage poverty jobs with no oversight.

I never met a farmer that I didn't wanna dropkick.

 

[Wereroku]

There's a variety of reasons, but it's still a job. I don't look down on the pickers out here since they're busting their asses for pennies. People want to say raise wages too but you do that and the farmers go out of business as buyers will just opt to purchase cheap as shit imported produce or markets will balk at raised produce prices.

Agriculture prices are as much of a race to the bottom as any, but it's still a job that needs to be done and historically hasn't been done by Americans out here in a while.

It's a job but most people would rather work for McDonald's at minimum wage then work for a few weeks at $15/hr and be looking for a new job constantly. Also there is the issues of owners ignoring bathroom breaks and other safe working conditions.

 

[elrechazado]

After having two roofing companies start and then stop work, I was dancing when the third try came with a vanful of Mexicans. Done in time, great work. Meanwhile my contractor friend can't get people to work. I live in the Midwest and there are fewer Mexican workers here, and it sucks. Yeah I'm stereotyping, but these dudes are honest, work their asses off, and are investing in agriculture, restaurants, small business, and living the American dream.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Wow. What's the next step after that? Compulsory agricultural civil service?

13th amendment, slavery by another name

 

[Ishida]

 

[G.ZZZ]

No sympathy; if you have trouble filling job vacancies, raise wages.

Aah everyone has such an hard-on for capitalism, but when it for once work against the employers instead of the poors by making them go out of business because of the situations suddendly it's no longer bootstraps but a systemical issue.

 

[elrechazado]

Wow. What's the next step after that? Compulsory agricultural civil service?

Only in bolivarian socialist paradise

http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/29/news/economy/venezuela-decree-farm-labor/

 

[Rentahamster]

Gee I dunno, how about offering more money to do the job?

(unless they addressed that in the article that I can't read because it's behind a paywall)

 

[studyguy]

It's a job but most people would rather work for McDonald's at minimum wage then work for a few weeks at $15/hr and be looking for a new job constantly. Also there is the issues of owners ignoring bathroom breaks and other safe working conditions.

Breh we're talking about farmworkers who are literally going on strikes out here for their wages or farms who literally wake up one day to find that their entire fieldcrew has up and left them to work for their competitors. Shit's crazy like you wouldn't believe for attracting farmhand labor out in CA. There's not a year that goes by in recent times that I don't hear some weird shit going down from a client. I don't think people really understand how desperate things get out here at times. Hell interstate competition is crazy too between CA and AZ trying to pull people out of one state or another.

Again I should clarify that things aren't great for farmhand labor, but the fact of the matter is that people saying 'raise wages' are downplaying the mountain of other market forces working to keep those wages low. Fact is if no Americans are willing to do the work then no one cares about some immigrants too. If no one cares nothing changes

 

[Aaronrules380]

Gee I dunno, how about offering more money to do the job?

(unless they addressed that in the article that I can't read because it's behind a paywall)

I mean the other article in this thread about farmhands specifically states that wages are going up quite a bit for those jobs and it still isn't working that well

 

[blakep267]

Gee I dunno, how about offering more money to do the job?

(unless they addressed that in the article that I can't read because it's behind a paywall)

Few things. Even if you offer more money, people don't want to work in fields. You can't offer them 401ks or retirement plans. Also people don't want prices to increase for goods

 

[TylerD]

I seem to recall they ended up using convicts to do the work.

Why would I not be surprised if they were from privately owned for-profit prisons (looks like some were!). Bonus points if they work in farms owned by the company that owns the prisons. Genius!

I'm sure the incoming administration will be a huge boon for...

Stock prices for CCA (Corrections Corporation of America) and GEO Group surged following Donald Trump's victory in the 2016 elections.

fuck.

 

[Laekon]

This shows the biggest bullshit part of illegal immigration, nothing is done about the people hiring them. Orange County is a Republican strong hold made up of white rich people against illegal immigrants, who hire large numbers of illegals so they can pay low wages and provide no benefits.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

Small businesses don't want to pay minimum wage, and certainly not a living wage.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Pay more money then.

We have the same "problem" here in Holland. Less people from Eastern Europe coming in and farmers complaining.

Although I also find it annoying that people complain about being unemployed and refuse to do work like that. It's not that bad work, at least over here.

 

[Fenderputty]

Gee I dunno, how about offering more money to do the job?

(unless they addressed that in the article that I can't read because it's behind a paywall)

Wasn't there a study that showed Americans can't hack this type of labor even for higher wages?

 

[Kareha]

Pay better wages for hired help or buy combine harvesters, which is cheaper?

 

[Pastry]

Pay more money then.

We have the same "problem" here in Holland. Less people from Eastern Europe coming in and farmers complaining.

Although I also find it annoying that people complain about being unemployed and refuse to do work like that. It's not that bad work, at least over here.

That's not the issue, Americans just don't want the jobs. They pay low precisely because Americans wouldn't do it even if they paid more, so they can get away with paying migrants less.

 

[Guevara]

Small businesses don't want to pay minimum wage, and certainly not a living wage.

They also don't want workers who might demand basic rights or even, gasp, organize.

 

[Hillary Clinton]

Just replace them with the unemployed coal workers and factory workers we keep hearing about.

 

[Netherscourge]

Trump & Co. think taking away the welfare system will back-fill those low-paying jobs with desperate poor people willing to work for minimum wage, which the GoP refuses to raise.

In other words, FORCE poor people off welfare and into shitty low-paying jobs.

 

[Robdraggoo]

Why would I not be surprised if they were from privately owned for-profit prisons (looks like some were!). Bonus points if they work in farms owned by the company that owns the prisons. Genius!

I'm sure the incoming administration will be a huge boon for...



fuck.

Well looks like they just found an incentive for more for-profit prisons. Y'all better mind your ps and qs because you'll probably be getting 5-10 For jaywalking.

Trumps America just gets scarier every day

 

[studyguy]

Wasn't there a study that showed Americans can't hack this type of labor even for higher wages?

15 years in North Carolina iirc.
Some thousands of farmhands studied only a handful of Americans stuck around for more than a half a year stint. Americans simply don't work farms anymore, period.

 

[JABEE]

They also don't want workers who might demand basic rights or even, gasp, organize.

And Silicon Valley doesn't want to manufacture cellphones in the United States and cut into their sweet profits. They would rather pay another country's labor starvation wages.

These are the progressive business people. Greed is absolute and business owners will run their workforce into the ground to move a digit just as they will rob the people of this country by avoiding taxes.

The farmers, merchants, tech philantropists/uber men, and hard core capitalists just don't believe US workers want these jobs. These insanely "dangerous," "unregulated," "unrewarding," and "insecure" agriculture and manufacturing jobs.

Praise globalism and free trade for providing our industry leaders with the exploited labor they require and frankly deserve.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

I mean, I see the problem, but what would a solution even look like?

I can't think of a scenario where things work out 'good' for everyone. Raising wages to a point where it makes up for the lack of job security and moving would only raise produce prices and/or move the operations overseas.

Farms want cheap, unskilled, replaceable labor. That's great for farms, but not so much for the people. However, if the farms can't operate the way they have been, then that impacts everyone else who is buying the produce.

Is there a way to have a modern, responsible, fair paying, reliably farm economy that treats its workers well, while also producing food at a reasonable price?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Is there a way to have a modern, responsible, fair paying, reliably farm economy that treats its workers well, while also producing food at a reasonable price?

Probably not yet until everything is automated. Europe subsidizes the shit out of their farms for example to keep them competitive.

 

[stonesak]

No sympathy; if you have trouble filling job vacancies, raise wages.

This. Pay fair market wages, hire nonviolent felons, increase benefits and you'll have no trouble filling vacancies

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

I mean, I see the problem, but what would a solution even look like?

I can't think of a scenario where things work out 'good' for everyone. Raising wages to a point where it makes up for the lack of job security and moving would only raise produce prices and/or move the operations overseas.

Farms want cheap, unskilled, replaceable labor. That's great for farms, but not so much for the people. However, if the farms can't operate the way they have been, then that impacts everyone else who is buying the produce.

Is there a way to have a modern, responsible, fair paying, reliably farm economy that treats its workers well, while also producing food at a reasonable price?

You are making the assumption that labor costs are a significant portion of the cost of food at the supermarket. They aren't. In 2011 the NYT published a great op ed on this.

For a typical household, a 40 percent increase in farm labor costs translates into a 3.6 percent increase in retail prices. If farm wages rose 40 percent, and this wage increase were passed on to consumers, average spending on fresh fruits and vegetables would rise about $15 a year, the cost of two movie tickets. However, for a typical seasonal farm worker, a 40 percent wage increase could raise earnings from $10,000 for 1,000 hours of work to $14,000 — lifting the wage above the federal poverty line.

 

[LegendofJoe]

The GOP solution to this is defacto slavery via the penal system. You need cheap labor and can't find it? Contact the nearest private penitentiary and your worries will go away.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

You are making the assumption that labor costs are a significant portion of the cost of food at the supermarket. They aren't. In 2011 the NYT published a great op ed on this.

Interesting. So "Big Farm" is still the evil culprit!

But to be fair, I don't know where the other costs lie. Transportation? Storage? What's the profit margin for farming?