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[Salty Hippo]

I think they're focusing on the studios most likely to bring in new users and revenue. That will reduce the size of the target on their back when MS leadership goes looking for cost centers to reduce or cut.

Press Play's experiment with Project Knoxville was struggling to get players for the beta. Lionhead's Fable Legends was super expensive, delayed, and had very little hype around it, plus a lot of negative reactions (e.g., this isn't Fable!, where's Fable 4?!, etc.). Twisted Pixel released a bomb (LocoCycle) and then MS let them go about 2 years later, so it would seem MS didn't see anything worth keeping. I think MS made the right business decision for those studios.

On top of those, the big AAA investments like Ryse, Sunset Overdrive, and Quantum Break were likely met with less fanfare than they hoped (I imagine MS was hoping for multi-million sellers). They wanted to fund Ryse 2 in exchange for IP ownership, but Crytek said no and MS walked away. They've probably seen the mixed reactions to Scalebound.

It's unfortunate, but they came into the gen with the right intentions (at least on the game side) and it seems like a string of bad luck that has probably cost Xbox a lot of money. Tightening their belt on first-party investments, including publishing deals, seems pretty reasonable all things considered.

EDIT: Forgot Team Dakota, an internal MS team, was also dissolved after Project Spark didn't catch on.

That's what they deserve for catering to only two crowds during most of last-gen. CoD dudebros and Kinect grandmas. Now they're hostage of their own audience. I wouldn't be too surprised if half of their current install base just plays CoD and Madden.

 

[Wigdogger]

I think they're focusing on the studios most likely to bring in new users and revenue. That will reduce the size of the target on their back when MS leadership goes looking for cost centers to reduce or cut.

Press Play's experiment with Project Knoxville was struggling to get players for the beta. Lionhead's Fable Legends was super expensive, delayed, and had very little hype around it, plus a lot of negative reactions (e.g., this isn't Fable!, where's Fable 4?!, etc.). Twisted Pixel released a bomb (LocoCycle) and then MS let them go about 2 years later, so it would seem MS didn't see anything worth keeping. I think MS made the right business decision for those studios.

On top of those, the big AAA investments like Ryse, Sunset Overdrive, and Quantum Break were likely met with less fanfare than they hoped (I imagine MS was hoping for multi-million sellers). They wanted to fund Ryse 2 in exchange for IP ownership, but Crytek said no and MS walked away. They've probably seen the mixed reactions to Scalebound.

It's unfortunate, but they came into the gen with the right intentions (at least on the game side) and it seems like a string of bad luck that has probably cost Xbox a lot of money. Tightening their belt on first-party investments, including publishing deals, seems pretty reasonable all things considered.

EDIT: Forgot Team Dakota, an internal MS team, was also dissolved after Project Spark didn't catch on.

I think you've provided an excellent summary of what their strategy has been (and likely will be). Good catch on Team Dakota as well, which I also remembered but forgot to write down in my earlier post.

I agree that it's totally valid for MS to tighten their belt on some of those studios, some of whom had less-than-stellar output. For now, Halo, Gears and Forza sell multiple millions, and Minecraft is a beast. Those are automatic. I think they feel bad for Rare, a company who I feel has been unfairly maligned in the face of constantly making games and trying to do what they can under the current mandate. Glad to see Sea of Thieves get some love, and hopefully that stokes some fires.

The second-party strategy of MS (own the IP, get others to make it) is a safe bet going forward, as you have the ability to jettison studios who stink out the joint or bail on a franchise that just doesn't work. Just the same, it helps them freshen up an IP by giving it to a new set of eyes. It is the right play.

I'd just like to see them continue to come up with a few new surprises. I'd agree that their output in many ways has been better than Sony this gen, but it's more been the console PR disaster that has sunk them.

That tension between companies (in a good way) is what creates quality content, so I just hope they narrow their focus but don't eliminate some of their software options entirely.

 

[WadeitOut]

Play Anywhere is the best thing to happen to gaming in years. Can't wait to hear more about it with other titles. Really hope some third parties get on board.

 

[Salty Hippo]

I think you've provided an excellent summary of what their strategy has been (and likely will be). Good catch on Team Dakota as well, which I also remembered but forgot to write down in my earlier post.

I agree that it's totally valid for MS to tighten their belt on some of those studios, some of whom had less-than-stellar output. For now, Halo, Gears and Forza sell multiple millions, and Minecraft is a beast. Those are automatic. I think they feel bad for Rare, a company who I feel has been unfairly maligned in the face of constantly making games and trying to do what they can under the current mandate. Glad to see Sea of Thieves get some love, and hopefully that stokes some fires.

The second-party strategy of MS (own the IP, get others to make it) is a safe bet going forward, as you have the ability to jettison studios who stink out the joint or bail on a franchise that just doesn't work. Just the same, it helps them freshen up an IP by giving it to a new set of eyes. It is the right play.

I'd just like to see them continue to come up with a few new surprises. I'd agree that their output in many ways has been better than Sony this gen, but it's more been the console PR disaster that has sunk them.

That tension between companies (in a good way) is what creates quality content, so I just hope they narrow their focus but don't eliminate some of their software options entirely.

I don't agree with that at all. I actually think Sony is what makes Microsoft look bad in that regard. I'm not talking about Sony's internal studios, but I find the disparity of their overall lineups (both released and upcoming games) overwhelming. PS4 has much more indies, much more japanese support, much more diversity, and even their tried and tested IPs like GoW are pushing for something new and fresh.

Microsoft, with the resources that they have, could compete if they were willing to, but they're just not. I give Phil a lot of shit, but I think the reality is that he's mostly powerless to do what he wants. The MS warchest thing is a myth, Satya and his investors/execs don't care about gaming, they know jack shit about the industry, yet they're probably the the ones calling the shots. The "let's take no risks" approach is not self-sustainable as a platform holder when you don't have that many valuable IPs to rely on. This needs to change, otherwise it's very obvious what will ultimately happen to Xbox as a brand.

 

[Trojan]

What does 'record-setting E3' mean? Was Guinness there taking entries?

MAU?

 

[Hawk269]

I don't agree with that at all. I actually think Sony is what makes Microsoft look bad in that regard. I'm not talking about Sony's internal studios, but I find the disparity of their overall lineups (both released and upcoming games) overwhelming. PS4 has much more indies, much more japanese support, much more diversity, and even their tried and tested IPs like GoW are pushing for something new and fresh.

Microsoft, with the resources that they have, could compete if they were willing to, but they're just not. I give Phil a lot of shit, but I think the reality is that he's mostly powerless to do what he wants. The MS warchest thing is a myth, Satya and his investors/execs don't care about gaming, they know jack shit about the industry, yet they're probably the the ones calling the shots. The "let's take no risks" approach is not self-sustainable as a platform holder when you don't have that many valuable IPs to rely on. This needs to change, otherwise it's very obvious what will ultimately happen to Xbox as a brand.

Huh???

If Sataya and the execs did not care about the gaming division how do you think the Xbox one S came about? And then on top of that all r&d going into Scorpio. But yeah the higher ups don't care about the gaming division.

 

[Wigdogger]

I don't agree with that at all. I actually think Sony is what makes Microsoft look bad in that regard. I'm not talking about Sony's internal studios, but I find the disparity of their overall lineups (both released and upcoming games) overwhelming. PS4 has much more indies, much more japanese support, much more diversity, and even their tried and tested IPs like GoW are pushing for something new and fresh.

Microsoft, with the resources that they have, could compete if they were willing to, but they're just not. I give Phil a lot of shit, but I think the reality is that he's mostly powerless to do what he wants. The MS warchest thing is a myth, Satya and his investors/execs don't care about gaming, they know jack shit about the industry, yet they're probably the the ones calling the shots. The "let's take no risks" approach is not self-sustainable as a platform holder when you don't have that many valuable IPs to rely on. This needs to change, otherwise it's very obvious what will ultimately happen to Xbox as a brand.

Well, that's kind of ridiculous considering Sony has amassed a lead with very few games. If you take out Bloodborne and Uncharted 4, Sony coasted on good will in their first two years. They basically made an Xbox 360, taking that playbook from MS. No doubt MS fucked up hard, but Sony essentially course-corrected at the last second before PS4 launch and made a gamer-friendly console. It's a great console, but I hardly think anyone could stack both of their outputs in terms of games side by side and say Sony is ahead. For indies, sure, they had some initial mindshare, but a lot of that has eroded. They're doing great, but a lot of their install base was decided before any software was on the table.

You're also forgetting that MS has one thing Sony can never have: Windows. That's why Sony will hold onto the console business with a death grip. They can't really even enter into that space (I'm talking like 10-15 years out here) without going through MS.

Xbox as a brand isn't going anywhere; it's just going to change substantially. It won't be what everyone wants, and it will take a while to get to where they want it, but it probably will. They're a big company. Sony's doing great right now, but a lot of that is just because of how terrible the XB1 launch was.

 

[Salty Hippo]

Huh???

If Sataya and the execs did not care about the gaming division how do you think the Xbox one S came about? And then on top of that all r&d going into Scorpio. But yeah the higher ups don't care about the gaming division.

The S screams of desperation to move units on the 4k playback thing. And I'm sure it brings the cost of manufacturing down. Its existence is a no brainer and not really an indication of support from Microsoft.

Scorpio is very different, it makes the current state of the Xbox portfolio puzzling to me. Like I said, next E3 will be make or break for them. They can't have yet another boring, safe, painfully predictable show when it comes to game announcements.

Scorpio could be one last attempt for Microsoft. Maybe they think having the most powerful hardware is what will really move their hardware and want to give that a try before giving up.

Also, Xbox One is still profitable enough, giving up all those XBL subs right now would be lunacy. So maybe Scorpio is just them going forward trying to milk whatever they can for as long as they can. They'll use the gaming division to bring as much people to Win10 as possible, and everything from thereon in is a bonus.

Nothing about what they're doing right now is irrefutable proof of a long term commitment to me. But we'll see what Scorpio ultimately is. Next E3 will tell.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Well, that's kind of ridiculous considering Sony has amassed a lead with very few games. If you take out Bloodborne and Uncharted 4, Sony coasted on good will in their first two years. They basically made an Xbox 360, taking that playbook from MS. No doubt MS fucked up hard, but Sony essentially course-corrected at the last second before PS4 launch and made a gamer-friendly console. It's a great console, but I hardly think anyone could stack both of their outputs in terms of games side by side and say Sony is ahead. For indies, sure, they had some initial mindshare, but a lot of that has eroded. They're doing great, but a lot of their install base was decided before any software was on the table.

You're also forgetting that MS has one thing Sony can never have: Windows. That's why Sony will hold onto the console business with a death grip. They can't really even enter into that space (I'm talking like 10-15 years out here) without going through MS.

Xbox as a brand isn't going anywhere; it's just going to change substantially. It won't be what everyone wants, and it will take a while to get to where they want it, but it probably will. They're a big company. Sony's doing great right now, but a lot of that is just because of how terrible the XB1 launch was.

Well, mind you, you're saying "games". This includes, AAA, AA, indie, Japanese, and every other distinction you can think off. In that case, it is overwhelmingly in Sony's favor. 2016 alone has seen a considerable gap between the two companies. It is what it is though. Sony has a much wider range to work with (more first party studios, more third party partnerships, etc...) and thus this result is only natural. It is fine if you prefer MS' output but that doesn't change anything.

 

[Bsigg12]

Microsoft decide to not do a press conference and everything they're doing now is out of desperation. Got it.

 

[Sydle]

I think this is somewhat true of what has been happening lately in regards to MS' game output. People keep screaming "we want new IP!" - and actually, MS has been releasing new (and at times innovative) IP - the problem is, much of that new IP hasn't been lighting sales charts on fire (I do think most have sold well enough to pay for their production costs, and a bit more - but I'm sure they wanted/expected more).

I think what people really want when they say "new IP" is "new AMAZING IP!" - and that's really, really hard to both develop and predict (as in what game will "catch on" next).

Agreed.

I think they need a new IP, or maybe a Destiny-like marketing deal for an upcoming game, that has the same effect that Gears of War had when it was first revealed. I think they believed Titanfall was that game when it was really Destiny.

Huh?, I don't think you and I saw the same XB1 reveal.



I'm most definitely sure that their way of thinking coming into this gen is what started their wave of misfortune, not really bad luck.

I'm not referring to the Always Online DRM, no used games, etc. I'm talking strictly about their investment in games. I think they had a great mix of new and old IP. If some of them had paid off better I think we would see even more new IP.

That's what they deserve for catering to only two crowds during most of last-gen. CoD dudebros and Kinect grandmas. Now they're hostage of their own audience. I wouldn't be too surprised if half of their current install base just plays CoD and Madden.

I agree their missteps started when they focused in on their pillar franchises and Kinect in the second half of the 360's life. Mattrick's insistence that they should focus on AAA franchises, multimedia, and Kinect is a stink that I think will take a very long time to completely shake.

I think they gave it an honest shot this gen to reset expectations that they are investing in new IP, but a lot of people just didn't care after the initial console reveal and many moved to PlayStation .

What I hope happens is, with the Windows 10 PC and console strategy, they see what they need in the way of users and revenue to take more gambles on diversifying their portfolio again. What I wouldn't give for sequels or spiritual successors to games like Kameo, Viva Piñata, Lost Odyssey, and Banjo.

I think you've provided an excellent summary of what their strategy has been (and likely will be). Good catch on Team Dakota as well, which I also remembered but forgot to write down in my earlier post.

I agree that it's totally valid for MS to tighten their belt on some of those studios, some of whom had less-than-stellar output. For now, Halo, Gears and Forza sell multiple millions, and Minecraft is a beast. Those are automatic. I think they feel bad for Rare, a company who I feel has been unfairly maligned in the face of constantly making games and trying to do what they can under the current mandate. Glad to see Sea of Thieves get some love, and hopefully that stokes some fires.

The second-party strategy of MS (own the IP, get others to make it) is a safe bet going forward, as you have the ability to jettison studios who stink out the joint or bail on a franchise that just doesn't work. Just the same, it helps them freshen up an IP by giving it to a new set of eyes. It is the right play.

I'd just like to see them continue to come up with a few new surprises. I'd agree that their output in many ways has been better than Sony this gen, but it's more been the console PR disaster that has sunk them.

That tension between companies (in a good way) is what creates quality content, so I just hope they narrow their focus but don't eliminate some of their software options entirely.

Agreed on all points, but I do think they are open to acquiring studios where it makes sense for both parties.

The only one that makes a lot of sense to me is Playground, because it seems they are consistently amazing and they are able to deliver highly polished AAA games on a pretty tight schedule. Perhaps MS has a contract in place that gives them first right to refusal or something if someone else tries to buy them.

Iron Galaxy has been pretty great for KI, but I'm not sure that game has been big enough to justify acquiring such a small team.

 

[Elios83]

The problem with Gamescom is that it has a really poor timing relatively to E3 so you either withhold some contents at E3 to purposely showcase them later Gamescom or it's really unlikely that publishers have enough time to prepare new announcements.
This year I guess that in Microsoft's case they simply don't have anything else to announce at this point since they gave an update to all of their already announced titles at E3 while their long term plans are focused on Scorpio and it's too early to make further announcements about it.
Timing is also the reason why Sony is not doing a conference as well, it doesn't fit with their schedule.

 

[Nightengale]

If you look at it strictly from a what’s released perspective, sure. When we look at the AAA space of said games, there’s not too big of a difference between PS4 and XB1, and from various perspectives, XB1 is ahead in genres like shooters and racers.

But perspective extends to far more than just available games in the market, and also to perception of what’s upcoming, announced line-ups and the how that extends to the perception of what their portfolio are. People (like me) really get worked up during press conferences because they are my favourite “marketing jam” to highlight a company’s approach towards how they present themselves and what they announce.

And from the press conference angle, MS has been really disappointing this year. They had a good press conference, but when I look at what they announced and review back how this year’s content lineup matched back against previous years, I don’t see the escalation. People mocked MS’s E3 2013 for $499, Angry Joe-Major Nelson and #submarine, but that was a fucking good press conference in terms of pure games.

*I made some errors with PvZ, etc, but I think in general my list communicates the overall picture of MS’s announcement slate YoY this gen.

Anyone who says MS is just “Gears/Forza/Halo” are deluding themselves. But at the same token, I don’t look at the above and be very convinced at having very high expectations for MS pushing a lot of new big IPs, relative to competition. If they have no more major platforms for announcements this year, that means they will have only announced 2 new first-party games this year, and one of them is annualised. No new IPs. These kind of things easily colour perception. Like it or not, that is the reality of these presentations. Sony is the same way. They could have many, many indies announced via PSBlog, but suddenly the lack of them in one press conference and then their indie platform push is questioned to an extent.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Surely at some point new IP need to happen. It can't be only Forza, Gears and Halo. Let's see what they have for us during the Scorpio event and next E3. Sea of Thieves, Recore and Scalebound are all brand new IP, so let's see how MS continues in regards to that.

 

[Kayant]

Wisdom

That's a real sizeable drop in announcements over time.
That $1B in gaming.

 

[wapplew]

That's a real sizeable drop in announcements over time.
That $1B in gaming.

MS did blow most of their load at 2013/2014, can't blame them thou.
They was in deep PR shit for early couple of years and they need "game! game! game!" to bring back mind share.

Maybe they'll back to 2-3 new games announcement per year plus their scheduled titles.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

*post*

Nice image.

Do you think you could make a Sony equivalent?

 

[Chobel]

Nice image.

Do you think you could make a Sony equivalent?

Here's the one for Sony (also done by Nightengale) http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=207965367&postcount=2964.

 

[Trup1aya]

All I want is some Crackdown news... Sigh

 

[Scrawnton]

I was expecting a "and it's available now" announcement at Gamescon conference regarding the Xbox One S, but now I have no idea what they'll do for releasing that system.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Here's the one for Sony (also done by Nightengale) http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=207965367&postcount=2964.

Thank you kindly!

 

[gamz]

I don't agree with that at all. I actually think Sony is what makes Microsoft look bad in that regard. I'm not talking about Sony's internal studios, but I find the disparity of their overall lineups (both released and upcoming games) overwhelming. PS4 has much more indies, much more japanese support, much more diversity, and even their tried and tested IPs like GoW are pushing for something new and fresh.

Microsoft, with the resources that they have, could compete if they were willing to, but they're just not. I give Phil a lot of shit, but I think the reality is that he's mostly powerless to do what he wants. The MS warchest thing is a myth, Satya and his investors/execs don't care about gaming, they know jack shit about the industry, yet they're probably the the ones calling the shots. The "let's take no risks" approach is not self-sustainable as a platform holder when you don't have that many valuable IPs to rely on. This needs to change, otherwise it's very obvious what will ultimately happen to Xbox as a brand.

Reads like a fan boy rage dream.

 

[Rembrandt]

Surely at some point new IP need to happen. It can't be only Forza, Gears and Halo. Let's see what they have for us during the Scorpio event and next E3. Sea of Thieves, Recore and Scalebound are all brand new IP, so let's see how MS continues in regards to that.

You literally just named three new IPs. They had Quantum Break, too.

Reads like a fan boy rage dream.

Which it is. They rather post here than in the Sony thread.

 

[Salty Hippo]

Reads like a fan boy rage dream.

I dunno, to me it reads like a reasonable statement that you could not argue against.

I'm not a MS fanboy, but I'm a Rare fanboy which by default makes me wish MS does well.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Reads like a fan boy rage dream.

You quoted the wrong post. Here it is:

Well, that's kind of ridiculous considering Sony has amassed a lead with very few games. If you take out Bloodborne and Uncharted 4, Sony coasted on good will in their first two years. They basically made an Xbox 360, taking that playbook from MS. No doubt MS fucked up hard, but Sony essentially course-corrected at the last second before PS4 launch and made a gamer-friendly console. It's a great console, but I hardly think anyone could stack both of their outputs in terms of games side by side and say Sony is ahead. For indies, sure, they had some initial mindshare, but a lot of that has eroded. They're doing great, but a lot of their install base was decided before any software was on the table.

You're also forgetting that MS has one thing Sony can never have: Windows. That's why Sony will hold onto the console business with a death grip. They can't really even enter into that space (I'm talking like 10-15 years out here) without going through MS.

Xbox as a brand isn't going anywhere; it's just going to change substantially. It won't be what everyone wants, and it will take a while to get to where they want it, but it probably will. They're a big company. Sony's doing great right now, but a lot of that is just because of how terrible the XB1 launch was.

 

[Wigdogger]

You quoted the wrong post. Here it is:

Okay there, buddy. I own all three, so I have no dog in the fight. I was countering somebody who was basically saying MS was populated by idiots and that Sony is the greatest thing ever in gaming. All three console companies have giant success (Wii, 360, PS2) and all have had big failure (XB1 launch, WiiU, PS3 $599).

MS has made a lot mistakes this gen, which is the chief reason they find themselves in the position they are in. Software has had some bearing, but this gen was decided by the first year because a bad thesis for a console.

Where Sony always has a built-in advantage in Japan, MS has a built-in advantage with Windows and services. It depends on how each of them leverage those advantages.

 

[Salty Hippo]

Okay there, buddy. I own all three, so I have no dog in the fight. I was countering somebody who was basically saying MS was populated by idiots and that Sony is the greatest thing ever in gaming. All three console companies have giant success (Wii, 360, PS2) and all have had big failure (XB1 launch, WiiU, PS3 $599).

MS has made a lot mistakes this gen, which is the chief reason they find themselves in the position they are in. Software has had some bearing, but this gen was decided by the first year because a bad thesis for a console.

Where Sony always has a built-in advantage in Japan, MS has a built-in advantage with Windows and services. It depends on how each of them leverage those advantages.

I didn't say that. Not even close. I talked about one specific Sony system and didn't suggest said system was the greatest ever anything, let alone Sony as a whole. But the fact of the matter is that the PS4's library destroys the XB1's in terms of sheer quantity and diversity, which are two metrics that can be used without having to resort to pure personal opinion and eliminating games that "don't count because reasons". That's what you did when you said the PS4 is not ahead. I mean, have you even looked at both console's full libraries? It's not even close.

And it's not even like Sony is doing superb job, it's more like Microsoft is dropping the ball hard. Many Sony exclusives (like Ni-Oh, Nier Automata and others) are exclusives by default without Sony putting any effort to get them, because the developers of those games have no faith that the XB1 audience will buy them. Microsoft has done nothing to change that over the past 6-7 years. They just doesn't give a shit. They live in a bubble of BLOCKBUSTERS. "This is where you can play the biggest BLOCKBUSTERS". That's a classic Mattrick line that Spencer still uses to this day. That's their philosophy for gaming. "Fuck the portfolio, let's focus on the BUHG GAYMZ."

You're right about my suggestion that MS is populated by idiots (when it comes to games), though! With the overwhelming ammount of shitty decisions they've made over the past few years you'd think this would be common knowledge by now. And yes the past couple of years under Phil Spencer are included in that.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Okay there, buddy. I own all three, so I have no dog in the fight. I was countering somebody who was basically saying MS was populated by idiots and that Sony is the greatest thing ever in gaming. All three console companies have giant success (Wii, 360, PS2) and all have had big failure (XB1 launch, WiiU, PS3 $599).

MS has made a lot mistakes this gen, which is the chief reason they find themselves in the position they are in. Software has had some bearing, but this gen was decided by the first year because a bad thesis for a console.

Where Sony always has a built-in advantage in Japan, MS has a built-in advantage with Windows and services. It depends on how each of them leverage those advantages.

Your claims about games aren't backed up by actual facts. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Wigdogger]

Your claims about games aren't backed up by actual facts. Quite the opposite in fact.

Are yours or the people you're seemingly supporting with a driveby like that? Other than vague assertions about Japan and Indie, what has that translated into in terms of actual games with commercial and critical success for the two years so far for PS4? Where is this games delta in terms of quality? If you're talking quantity for PS4 vs. XB1, I'll grant it to you, no doubt. But stacking meaningful games from both companies next to each other (especially for the North American audience), I don't think you have made a convincing argument either.

This is all just listwar garbage anyway.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Are yours or the people you're seemingly supporting with a driveby like that? Other than vague assertions about Japan and Indie, what has that translated into in terms of actual games with commercial and critical success for the two years so far for PS4? Where is this games delta in terms of quality? If you're talking quantity for PS4 vs. XB1, I'll grant it to you, no doubt. But stacking meaningful games from both companies next to each other (especially for the North American audience), I don't think you have made a convincing argument either.

This is all just listwar garbage anyway.

So basically you're doing your own selective choosing of which games count to come to your own conclusion. No surprises there.

 

[Wigdogger]

So basically you're doing your own selective choosing of which games count to come to your own conclusion. No surprises there.

What are you basing your argument on? Haven't heard anything. I'm not dealing with the future. I'm talking about the 2+ years we've had, where I feel Sony has brought as many or fewer AAA games to the fore and roughly the same quality of indies. They've had much more in terms of quantity, yes, but are you claiming that they've had a slew of million sellers and critical darlings so far?

I'm also referring to Mr. Hippo and his assertion that MS is populated by idiots. At the start of this gen, they had some clearly misguided people at the head of the ship. But did the 360 just happen by accident? Was Sony not incompetent for most of that last gen?

The narrative you're both painting is that everything is decided and that nothing will ever change.

 

[Shin-Ra]

What are you basing your argument on? Haven't heard anything. I'm not dealing with the future. I'm talking about the 2+ years we've had, where I feel Sony has brought as many or fewer AAA games to the fore and roughly the same quality of indies. They've had much more in terms of quantity, yes, but are you claiming that they've had a slew of million sellers and critical darlings so far?

I'm also referring to Mr. Hippo and his assertion that MS is populated by idiots. At the start of this gen, they had some clearly misguided people at the head of the ship. But did the 360 just happen by accident? Was Sony not incompetent for most of that last gen?

The narrative you're both painting is that everything is decided and that nothing will ever change.

The narrative I'm painting is that you're lying about the quantity and quality of games available for PS4.

That includes (from all regions) first party releases, third party releases and indies, many of which came so soon and smoothly thanks to the efforts of third party relations staff at SCE's various regional divisions.

The bit about having to go through Microsoft to publish on Windows (??) must've been a joke.

 

[Wigdogger]

The narrative I'm painting is that you're lying about the quantity and quality of games available for PS4.

That includes (from all regions) first party releases, third party releases and indies, many of which came so soon and smoothly thanks to the efforts of third party relations staff at SCE's various regional divisions.

The bit about having to go through Microsoft to publish on Windows (??) must've been a joke.

Wow, didn't know Sony could leverage Windows the way MS can. News to me. That's where things are going in the future. It's a path Sony can't follow; not in the same way.

And again, you're being pretty vague on the games. Not qualifying anything other than listing game subtypes.

Regardless, we agree to disagree. Cheers!

 

[Salty Hippo]

What are you basing your argument on? Haven't heard anything. I'm not dealing with the future. I'm talking about the 2+ years we've had, where I feel Sony has brought as many or fewer AAA games to the fore and roughly the same quality of indies. They've had much more in terms of quantity, yes, but are you claiming that they've had a slew of million sellers and critical darlings so far?

I'm also referring to Mr. Hippo and his assertion that MS is populated by idiots. At the start of this gen, they had some clearly misguided people at the head of the ship. But did the 360 just happen by accident? Was Sony not incompetent for most of that last gen?

The narrative you're both painting is that everything is decided and that nothing will ever change.

Dude, what does last gen have to do with anything? The reason I'm criticizing MS is because they are not showing many signs of even trying to compete with PS4 for the console market. Their last two E3s were awful in terms of new game annoucements. Especially 2016. They need new games more than ever, but they're still banking on Halo, Gears and Forza. This will be the 3rd year in a row where XB1 goes into the holiday having 50% or more of their lineup made of Halo or Gears or Forza. That would be ok if their output was good during the rest of the year, but it's never been good.

As for the games comparison, you're just selecting "games that count and games that don't" and that's beyond pointless to discuss because it's entirely subjective. You keep asking for examples of games but if I were to do that this would become a stupid list wars discussion. But I assure you PS4's library is bigger and more diverse, which was my point from the start. You can check it yourself, although I'm not sure how. Wikipedia maybe? I keep a list for each console with every console exclusive I intend to buy someday (I own neither atm) but I'm not gonna post that.

As for quality, other than personal taste all we could talk about is reviews. And it wouldn't change anything. If you filter the list with just 90+ games or 80+ or 70+ the results will be the very similar, always in PS4's favor. So I really don't get the outrage.

Also, I wouldn't count on a new huge fuck up from either Sony or Microsoft anymore. They both learned lessons, and at this age of social media you'd have to be really, really stupid to pull another "get a second job" or "we have a product for people in submarines" kind of shit. It won't happen for at least a few decades, if ever again. They will outsmart each other, but neither will commit public suicide on stage like they did in the past.

 

[Shin-Ra]

As for the games comparison, you're just selecting "games that count and games that don't" and that's beyond pointless to discuss because it's entirely subjective. You keep asking for examples of games but if I were to do that this would become a stupid list wars discussion. But I assure you PS4's library is bigger and more diverse, which was my point from the start. You can check it yourself, although I'm not sure how. Wikipedia maybe?

shinobi602's posted a thread for each month's new games the last year or so.