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Xbox Gaf: Are you satisfied with the current state of Microsoft Game Studios?

Kimahri

Gold Member
There are in fact several people in that thread.
Here is one of them who replied to me



And another

I'm not expecting anything. I'm saying they have enough studios (at least if acti goes through) to release 12 aaa games per year.

I don't really care either way since I'll probably play only a fraction of them.

I'm flattered that I live so comfortably rent free in your head that you took the time to locate a weeks old post in a different thread just to single me out though.

That's not sad at all.

Not at all.
 

Three

Member
I'm not expecting anything. I'm saying they have enough studios (at least if acti goes through) to release 12 aaa games per year.

I don't really care either way since I'll probably play only a fraction of them.

I'm flattered that I live so comfortably rent free in your head that you took the time to locate a weeks old post in a different thread just to single me out though.

That's not sad at all.

Not at all.
Because somebody asked for it and I looked and provided it. Don't flatter yourself.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I disagree that people standing up to push back against Xbox Live Gold price increases is in any way analogous to people bitching about studio output. The first is a form of consumer pushback to guaranteed fair pricing while the second is a mixture of people who are entitled & generally clueless about production pipelines combined with some measure of people who just want to engage in console warring.

That said, I would still agree that to some degree this is a legit discussion but most of the discussion around this topic isn't in good faith. To some degree my response here is also a matter of nuance and tone.

Many of the people dog piling on Xbox studios are generally not also looking at the rather lackluster output over at Sony over the past year with the same equally critical eye.

The bottom line is it takes time to build studios & pump out content. Many of the same people bitching about delays are the same people bitching about buggy releases. Ultimately delays result in better games. That doesn't mean we can't discuss it & try to offer feedback that hopefully helps MS put the pedal to the metal. But there are limits to how fast any project can be pushed without lowering the quality at release, which is a reality that many don't think about while bitching about it until they get a buggy piece of shit in their hands at launch. 🤷🏽‍♂️

The issues I highlighted are analogous when viewed from the lens of "first world problems" though, which is the point I was making. Are there folks complaining here simply because it is Microsoft? Always. The same happens with threads about Sony as well. Last year, there were many posters "dog piling" on Sony last year when Horizon Forbidden West was delayed. It is the same tale over and over again when it comes to the console war. Only the name of the corporation changes.

I also agree that I would rather have delayed games that buggy pieces of shit. If that means Microsoft has a barren year then so be it. I'm still going to be playing games in 2023. When Starfield launches this will all be forgotten.
 

DryvBy

Member
Phil is not the saving one for Xbox and people need to realize this. All of his ideas are about stripping people of money through services, not providing quality games. The Xbox brand itself has an incredible catalogue that's just sitting on the shelf. I have an Xbox Series X right now and I don't even know why.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Phil is not the saving one for Xbox and people need to realize this. All of his ideas are about stripping people of money through services, not providing quality games. The Xbox brand itself has an incredible catalogue that's just sitting on the shelf. I have an Xbox Series X right now and I don't even know why.

If you scroll down a bit on the home screen there is a store app on there, thousands of things available to play. They've got a 90 minute show coming up soon as well, I doubt it will be all talk for 90 minutes, so, we should get a game or two shown off there too.
 

Corndog

Member
I think my posting history should confirm that there is no love lost between me and Xbox's first party output. There is no real reason for me to drone on and on about this stuff, but I am interested in hearing what Xbox fans think of Microsoft's lackluster output this gen.

- Are you concerned about another barebones year with Starfield and Redfall getting delayed? 2020 was fairly empty too.
- Are you ok with the lack of next gen only games on xbox so far this gen?
- If not, who do you blame for this? Sony gaf blames Jim Ryan for everything; I blame him for the Ukraine war. Does Phil Spencer shoulder some of this blame after 9 years at the helm?
- They say it's darkest before the dawn. Are you confident MS will have a killer E3 conference with Perfect Dark, Forza, Hellblade, Fable, Starfield, Avowed and State of Decay 2 all making an appearance? That they are about to turn the corner?
- Everyone from Nintendo, Sony to From Software are delaying games. Should MS with their infinite war chest be held to a different standard?

Note to Sony gaf: No offense, but I can predict your posts just by looking at your name tags lol so let's just see what real fans of Xbox have to say first.
I’m not satisfied. They need to be better. Starting with a management restructuring at 343.
 
Has Xbox, PlayStation, or Nintendo ever called one of their games second party?

Has Xbox, PlayStation, or Nintendo ever called one of their games second party?
They call them "partner studios" usually. The term "second party" is used for more than just games, it is used across the business world. I'm literally in training for a new position today, and JUST saw the term "second party" used to describe something comparable to a studio/publisher relationship. In this case, a bank and broker relationship was being used. I really don't understand why this always causes such pushback here on gaf. This is a widely known fact that you can look up through numerous sources. Probably because of all the console warring, everyone has a thirst to try and list every game possible as "first party" just to add to their arsenal. Phil tries doing it too. Doesn't change a thing.

Also, we shouldn't get into the habit of letting publishers define things for us. That's how we end up with loot boxes being called "surprise mechanics", non-exclusive games being called "timed console exclusive", and censorship being called "protecting gamers".
 
Glad they got studios to make games

But just like 2012 to now.....still no games

I'm thinking Phil Spencer may not be a good studio head.
 

Hendrick's

Member
They call them "partner studios" usually. The term "second party" is used for more than just games, it is used across the business world. I'm literally in training for a new position today, and JUST saw the term "second party" used to describe something comparable to a studio/publisher relationship. In this case, a bank and broker relationship was being used. I really don't understand why this always causes such pushback here on gaf. This is a widely known fact that you can look up through numerous sources. Probably because of all the console warring, everyone has a thirst to try and list every game possible as "first party" just to add to their arsenal. Phil tries doing it too. Doesn't change a thing.

Also, we shouldn't get into the habit of letting publishers define things for us. That's how we end up with loot boxes being called "surprise mechanics", non-exclusive games being called "timed console exclusive", and censorship being called "protecting gamers".
So if none of the major publishers use the term, then it is not relevant to this conversation. The general pushback comes from the origin of the term in the use of 1st and 3rd as it relates to perspective. There is no 2nd person.
 
The games will come. It's just gonna take a bit more time. Though, outside of Starfield, Avowed and maybe Hellblade 2 I don't expect masterpieces though.
 

Kssio_Aug

Member
The games will come. It's just gonna take a bit more time. Though, outside of Starfield, Avowed and maybe Hellblade 2 I don't expect masterpieces though.
Yup, for this event I'm expecting pretty much the same. And Forza Motorsport, but honestly I don't care about the Motorsport franchise (but I'm glad for those who like it). But if Starfield looks good, then that's awesome! I also honestly believe they might announce some interesting titles for Game Pass there.

For real, in the end of the day it doesn't matter much to me. I like events with tons of games and all, but my hype dies immediatly after the event is over when i realize there's no release window yet, or that it will take more than a year to release. So just show me some gameplay of whatever is ready to be shown, proper release dates for whatever is ready to be released, and some GP games that I can actually download and play days later after the event. This way, I'll be glad. :messenger_tongue:
 
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Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I bought my Series S so I could have convenient access to my OG XBOX, 360, PS1, SNES, Genesis, and GBA games in one little box lol (haven't tested PS2, Gamecube, N64, or Dreamcast yet). So I don't really care what they are doing or not doing, but sure I'll take a Quake if it comes my way.
 
So if none of the major publishers use the term, then it is not relevant to this conversation. The general pushback comes from the origin of the term in the use of 1st and 3rd as it relates to perspective. There is no 2nd person.
I told you what they call them lol. You can say it irrelevant, but it isn't. Some people here just have the wrong idea. There's lots of terms they don't use, that don't make them less real or accurate.
 

yurinka

Member
I think you're confused about what constitutes a first-party games (which is fair, as I see a lot of discussion around this topic from time to time).

It generally works like this: if the IP is owned by a publisher, it is a first-party game, regardless of who is developing it. And the external developer group may help a third-party studio create the game. Examples:
  • Bloodborne is a PS first-party game because Sony owns the IP and contracted it out to FromSoftware. Japan Studio's xDev team helped FromSoftware build the game.
  • Sackboy is a PS first-party game because Sony owns the IP and contracted it out to Digital Sumo. PS's xDev studio helped Digital Sumo develop the game.
  • Destruction All Stars is a PS first-party game because Sony owns the IP and hired Lucid Games to make it. PS's xDev studio helped Lucid Games to develop the game.
Similarly:
  • Microsoft Flight Simulator is a first-party Xbox game because MS owns the IP. They hired Asobo (a third-party studio) to make the game. Xbox's Global Publishing (just like PS xDev) helped Asobo make the game.
  • Contraband is a first-party Xbox game because MS owns the IP. They hired Avalanche to make the game. Xbox Global Publishing is helping them.
On the other hand:
  • Medium is a third-party game. Neither MS nor Sony owns the IP. Neither of them helped the studio develop the game. The game was just money-hatted to be timed exclusive.
  • Ascent is a third-party game. Neither MS nor Sony owns the IP. Neither of them helped the studio develop the game. The game was just money-hatted to be timed exclusive.
With this context, please see that list again. You'll notice that it's all about first-party games released this gen, and it is not as random as it may have initially appeared.
First party games are the ones published by the platform owner. When published by a company not owned by the platform holder is a 3rd party game.

First party studios are the ones owned by the platform holder, 3rd party ones are the ones not owned by that platform holder.

2nd party games are the 1st party games developed by 3rd party studios.

IP ownership isn't related to be 1st or 3rd party game, sometimes there are 1st party games with external IPs they don't own (like Spider-Man or MLB) or with 2nd party games where the 3rd party studio owns the IP. In some cases there are 3rd party games where the platform holder publishes/distributes the game on a specific country/region but still is 3rd party and they are only helping them.
 
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Fredrik

Gold Member
What 1st and 3rd party exclusives has xbox series got so far?

Halo Infinite
Forza
Flight Simulator
I think Im missing something or 2
There has been some timed ones but they’re out elsewhere now; The Medium, The Ascent, Call of the Sea.

Then it’s Gears Tactics, Forza Horizon 5, Flight Sim, Halo Infinite, and Hive Busters Gears 5 DLC. And Tunic, timed I think.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
It’s so nice to be part of a welcoming, inclusive, and positive community of controller fans!
I'm in it for the socks! Can never have enough socks!
Dance Hamster GIF by Dedoles
 

Kokoloko85

Member
There has been some timed ones but they’re out elsewhere now; The Medium, The Ascent, Call of the Sea.

Then it’s Gears Tactics, Forza Horizon 5, Flight Sim, Halo Infinite, and Hive Busters Gears 5 DLC. And Tunic, timed I think.
Ah, Gears Tactics was the one i forgot. My favourite genre
 

Akuji

Member
Iam not the target audience for XBox so when i feel like XBox is awesome they probably lose their target audience.
That means they should NOT aim for me, but for the ones that actually like the brand and what it offers.

For me all i need XBox to do is to release a steady flow of high quality games pushing the others ( Sony/Nintendo/3rd party ) to try harder to innovate and / or make better games in general.
I play on PC so games like Fable will be played on PC since games release the same day for PC. But sadly aside from Fable and maybe Avowed ( how is it written? ) theres not really much that i care about from team green.
They never had a track record of putting out great games regularly but they had phases where it was better and ... whatever we call what we have now.

Honestly even i dont care for xbox but even as a bystander i hear "games will come soon" for like 10 years. Its stupid. Obviously some games were great.
Gears 4/5,Forza Horizon,Cuphead and the 2 Ori games come to mind. But thats it? How do they manage to make Halo such a bad game? 5 and Infinite wtf? 5 was boring as fuck single player and infinite i played on pc for like 25 minutes until i was sure there are just decades behind other shooters ( on pc, maybe console feeling is fine )

So what do i want from xbox? Shut the fuck up until games arrive, Spencer talks to much for my taste but i guess thats the american style of doing things.
Fire a shitload of people and put passionate people in charge that get payed okay but make sure to get them bonuses for when a game is truly outstanding to make them motivated to get to that level.

But all that talk and i gotta admit as of now with Bethesda and Acti-Blizz also counting in the others stuff, they are in a position to actually deliver.
Maybe this time something will come of it. Its still not okay to have a 10 years drought but well, if they deliver in lets say 2-3 years and then dont stop? yeah that would be great.

Game development just takes to much time, also the games are stuffed with filler content. We dont need content fillers. Just make a Game that is 20 hours max. with an awesome expierience start to finish.
Some games with alot of optional side content are fine, there are people that love them but for the majority? nah just fun games please but that isnt an xbox problem but a whole industrie problem.

Nintendo is one of the best ones in that regard but even they start putting alot of crappy content into their games.
crappy content is maybe a harsh word since some of that content is okay or even enjoyable. But i would rather have only the great stuff and not the "oh thats ok too" stuff.

positive game for example is Returnal or Elden Ring.
more like that. less like Assassins Creed content stuff. doesnt mean assassins creed is bad but if you cut the stuff thats not really good and just have the great stuff left. that game would be much better!

I hope my point comes across its not that clear even in my head and while i think my english is okay, its not good enough to get my thoughts clearly listed sorry.
 

Vyse

Gold Member
I am not XBOX GAF, i am ALL HW GAF, but just to give my answer:

Yes, Halo Infinite was the Goty of 2021 and there were many other quality titles like Flight Simulator.
We just need more GEARS OF WAR games.
Like the ALL HW GAF comment! Accounts for me as well. Grateful that I have to opportunity to play on multiple platforms. Best of all worlds for me.
 

Jerm411

Member
I wouldn’t consider myself XBox GAF as I enjoy everything but yeah I’m completely over them…the delays killed what ever hype I have for the foreseeable future.

I would’ve already cancelled GP if I didn’t have it through October, after that it’s gone…

I’m tired of the “just wait” and they’re in full prove it to me mode to get me to come back…100% all in on Sony’s ecosystem now.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
Xbox app, filtered by recently played.
The games on the 3 top rows I’ve spent some serious time on are:
Minecraft Dungeons, playing with the kids. A couple days ago.
Tunic, playing with the kids. A couple weeks ago.
AC Odyssey. Probably a month ago.
Halo Infinite. Several months ago.
Minecraft, playing with the kids. Several Months ago.
Forza Horizon 5. Last year.
Flight Simulator. Last year.
Halo 5. play-through in the autumn.
The Ascent. Late summer.

Yes it’s bad.
 
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Karmic Raze

Member
I’m not happy with them. I thought Forza Horizon 5 was a pretty game, but the driving mechanics was all over the place. I’d rather just play the next NFS, be it NFS Heat 2 or whatever. Halo Infinite was alright, but didn’t impress me either. They definitely have some work to do to make waves with me.
 

DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
I'd like more first party titles from MS and I'd like to see what they come out with at next month's showcase. Last year also started pretty slowly and ended up pretty good. I'll reserve judgment till the showcase.
 

Jaybe

Gold Member
wonder if the Xbox development toolkit changes for this generation are part of the reason for slower than expected output.

“Sony kinda stuck with what worked, and their's development software and tools were pretty good early on and this is something that people really don't see, all of this impacts the performance that the consumer gets," Puha explained. "Microsoft opted to change quite a lot of things which in the long run is probably good but it's just a bigger hurdle for us devs early on. We have to rewrite a bunch of things to really take advantage of specific features but that's just software development."

https://www.altchar.com/game-news/c...ns-microsoft-think-long-term-avL8Z4c48LXl/amp
 
Not satisfied at all despite just getting a Series X. I love the actual hardware and quick resume, how quiet it is, etc, however, the only new exclusive offerings worthy of excitement are: forza horizon 5, MS Flight Sim, halo infinite, and gears 5's series x patch. Even still, gears 5 (besides being a game ive already played a lot) and Halo infinite do not live up to when these franchises were great. Forza 5 is great though and so is msfs (if that's your thing).

Starfield and Stalker delays though are devastating this year. Also, why the fuck has MS abandoned their BC program and stopped putting out patches for Xbox one games? For instance Sunset overdrive and Ryse have never been patched! That's crazy to me.

Back compat is one area that they have this huge advantage over Sony with. MS has this great tech that can upscale games to 4k/60 fps with 16x AF and they're quitting that great work they were doing? Why? Probably because they don't feel the 'need' to now that Gamepass is successful. Don't you just love how these companies operate? As soon as they're successful with something they start dropping support in other areas. It's very frustrating.

Aside from exclusives like Ryse there is a ton of other great 3rd party games from last gen that if they were to update them, MS would be the only platform to play good versions of old games on.
 
Hopefully we get a big showing next month with some titles due out this year. I'm expecting Forza Motorsport to be out this year, but given all the delays I wouldn't be surprised if that's pushed back to next year. Fingers crossed we also see the long rumored Halo Battle Royale title which if the stars align, will be out this year.

Back compat is one area that they have this huge advantage over Sony with. MS has this great tech that can upscale games to 4k/60 fps with 16x AF and they're quitting that great work they were doing? Why? Probably because they don't feel the 'need' to now that Gamepass is successful. Don't you just love how these companies operate? As soon as they're successful with something they start dropping support in other areas. It's very frustrating.

I believe this was more related to licensing, legal and technical issues than anything. Some titles were so old that obtaining the rights to publish under the BC catalogue was near impossible as the original license agreements had ended or worse, the original publisher no longer exists!
 
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