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Xbox June GDK: More dev memory for Series S and more.

Ozriel

Member
All these 3 things are not really happening and we won't see it either, because devs have said before these consoles were that they were going to match each other. Nothing more, nothing less. Both companies improve their tools and api's. There is a reason why Nintendo and Sony not talking openly about all their inhouse tech and api's. It's because they don't have to sell it. Microsofts largest competitor in this field is Vulkan api.

This update has nothing to do with DirectX or any graphics API, and there’s nothing in the Update that has to be ‘sold’ vs Vulkan. Microsoft is talking more openly about this because it’s pretty much their way as a primarily software company with a long history of developer engagement.
 

clampzyn

Member
So Riky with this update to the GDK and developers using VRS tier 2, SFS and Primitive shaders etc should we expect the Series S to be pushing the PS5 hard???
Any day now?

I don't know what the dev's did on this game to achieve dynamic 1440p/120fps on Series S, native 4k/120 RT Reflection on Series X. But I heard Xbox had involvement in developing this game, might be VRS tier 2 active here but DF and elanalistadebits was unable to locate it because the implementation was really good, take my opinion with a grain of salt though because it's all speculation.
 
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Lysandros

Member
Meanwhile we still don't know about the OS RAM allocation for PS5, let alone these kind of improvements. Continue the radio silence Sony, don't let single word escape Jim, you are the best. On a more serious note, i wholeheartedly congratulate Microsoft for the open communication about such things as a console tech enthusiast.
 

I Master l

Member
Meanwhile we still don't know about the OS RAM allocation for PS5, let alone these kind of improvements. Continue the radio silence Sony, don't let single word escape Jim, you are the best. On a more serious note, i wholeheartedly congratulate Microsoft for the open communication about such things as a console tech enthusiast.

PS5 OS is 4K i guess the allocation size is much bigger unless the PS5 has a DDR chip added like the PS4 Pro
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
Pretty good news for Series S which has been gradually improving as time goes by, can't wait for Forza Motorsport as hopefully that will seriously start to push the machine and we'll see what it can really do.
 

modiz

Member
PS5 has indeed additional RAM just like PS4 PRO, it's a 512 MB of DDR4 chip near the built-in SSD if i remember correctly.
The Pro has 1GB of additional DDR3 RAM to "to swap out non-gaming applications that run in the background, allowing games to utilize an additional 512 MB of the console's GDDR5 memory."
I can't find information on whether this is true for PS5.
 
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The Pro has 1GB of additional DDR3 RAM to "to swap out non-gaming applications that run in the background, allowing games to utilize an additional 512 MB of the console's GDDR5 memory."
I can't find information on whether this is true for PS5.

AFAIK, the PS5 doesn't have an extra pool of memory except for SSD data caching as Lysandros Lysandros mentions. However it theoretically doesn't need it: the peak compressed data rate for its SSD I/O is 22 GB/s which is similar to the DDR4 RAM bandwidth for the extra 512 MB PS4 used for the non-gaming application swapping out of its GDDR5 RAM.

I'm guessing with future developments that type of functionality can be utilized for PS5 in terms of non-gaming file swaps out of main RAM and storing them onto some portion of the SSD until the files are needed again. NXGamer NXGamer mentioned something about this in terms of speculation back in 2020.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
DF talk about this in their new Weekly video, seem to think it will help with Series S Raytracing, although they don't know how much.
They seem to say developers are happy with the GPU but memory amount and bandwith have been the major problem.
They also talk about the bigger consoles memory and say that the Series X has 13.5gb usable Vs 12.5gb on PS5, I think this is the first confirmation we've had about the PS5 situation.
They go on to say they hope Series X will get extra RT effects and graphical upgrades rather than just higher DRS values on future titles.
 
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clampzyn

Member
DF talk about this in their new Weekly video, seem to think of will help with Series S Raytracing, although they don't know how much.
They seem to say developers are happy with the GPU but memory amount and bandwith have been the major problem.
They also talk about the bigger consoles memory and say that the Series X has 13.5gb usable Vs 12.5gb on PS5, I think this is the first confirmation we've had about the PS5 situation.
They go on to say they hope Series X will get extra RT effects and graphical upgrades rather than just higher DRS values on future titles.

If Forza Motorsport manage to pull of a native 4k with RT reflections that would be amazing and a good benchmark that on lower resolution they could add like RT Reflection + RT GI. We'll see later on how developers will tackle RT on consoles.
On pure raw performance we're already seeing decent performance on consoles, consoles RT is still on its infancy stage. Hopefully later on dev's could finally use it properly.
 
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Corndog

Member
Nah....you are buying into marketing way too much here, dude. Sony doesn't market their APIs like Microsoft does. Sony doesn't sell their APIs like Microsoft does. So you are never going to see videos explaining how Sony is improving their console. That doesn't mean it isn't happening. XSX and PS5 are evenly matched even if Xbox has the edge. I think both are trying to make improvements and that's a good thing.
I guess road to ps5 never happened?
 

Corndog

Member
AFAIK, the PS5 doesn't have an extra pool of memory except for SSD data caching as Lysandros Lysandros mentions. However it theoretically doesn't need it: the peak compressed data rate for its SSD I/O is 22 GB/s which is similar to the DDR4 RAM bandwidth for the extra 512 MB PS4 used for the non-gaming application swapping out of its GDDR5 RAM.

I'm guessing with future developments that type of functionality can be utilized for PS5 in terms of non-gaming file swaps out of main RAM and storing them onto some portion of the SSD until the files are needed again. NXGamer NXGamer mentioned something about this in terms of speculation back in 2020.
Ssd doesn’t increase memory bandwidth. It will always be a bottleneck.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
DF talk about this in their new Weekly video, seem to think it will help with Series S Raytracing, although they don't know how much.
They seem to say developers are happy with the GPU but memory amount and bandwith have been the major problem.
They also talk about the bigger consoles memory and say that the Series X has 13.5gb usable Vs 12.5gb on PS5, I think this is the first confirmation we've had about the PS5 situation.
They go on to say they hope Series X will get extra RT effects and graphical upgrades rather than just higher DRS values on future titles.
I noticed that to. Quite big news that the PS5 has 12.5 and XSX has 13.5.

I find it a bit funny that DF think the hardware engineers who designed the series S and X would of put in an insufficient amount memory, i mean its not like there experts at hardware designers. The xbox one/ps4 had the same rame difference with the xbox one x and that was not an issue.
 

clampzyn

Member
I find it a bit funny that DF think the hardware engineers who designed the series S and X would of put in an insufficient amount memory, i mean its not like there experts at hardware designers. The xbox one/ps4 had the same rame difference with the xbox one x and that was not an issue.

Devs complaining about the lack of memory just refused the fact that this consoles have SFS which have been advertised by Microsoft long time ago, I don't get what's the reason not to use this feature in practice already. And DF seems most of the time also forget to include this on their topic, Microsoft literally introduced a solution for the memory problem.
 
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Ssd doesn’t increase memory bandwidth. It will always be a bottleneck.

I was focusing more on RAM capacity with that post, but bandwidth is tied into it and I'm not saying the SSD would suddenly turn 448 GB/s into 470 GB/s. What I'm saying is that the capacity footprint for background OS tasks is well within a space that the PS5's SSD I/O would be able to take 1 GB's worth, losslessly compress it, and dump it out into a space on the SSD at a rate quick enough to simulate the additional 4 GB of low-level RAM the PS4 had for background OS tasks.

Basically, the SSD I/O is fast enough to allow some footprint of the 2 GB already reserved for active OS tasks to be broken up in pieces and quickly shifted to the SSD at a rate at least comparable to (if not superior to) how the Pro did it for moving background OS tasks from main RAM to the extra 1 GB of RAM. Only difference for PS5 would be when those background OS tasks need to be calculated for something; it'd just have to manage streaming it into a slice of the 2 GB of RAM reserved for the OS at all times and work on it there, then if needed, dump it back out into storage. That's the only real difference.

Technically speaking the Series systems are capable of something similar, but their SSD I/O is less robust and their CPU would need to handle certain additional steps anyway. So it probably wouldn't be as seamless on those systems. But it should still be doable; that's a benefit all three systems have this gen in terms of QoL thanks to the SSDs and the accompanying I/O subsystems.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
Devs complaining about the lack of memory just refused the fact that this consoles have SFS which have been advertised by Microsoft long time ago, I don't get what's the reason not to use this feature in practice already.

Hopefully first party next gen only games will lead the way, could be how Turn 10 are getting on track RT out of Series S.
 

clampzyn

Member
Hopefully first party next gen only games will lead the way, could be how Turn 10 are getting on track RT out of Series S.

We definitely need a first party studio game as a benchmark for performance so 3rd party devs will have an idea how much this console can perform on their games.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
I noticed that to. Quite big news that the PS5 has 12.5 and XSX has 13.5.

I find it a bit funny that DF think the hardware engineers who designed the series S and X would of put in an insufficient amount memory, i mean its not like there experts at hardware designers. The xbox one/ps4 had the same rame difference with the xbox one x and that was not an issue.

I'm sure they went over how the resolution difference makes the situation comparable, so you don't need 12gb plus, I think a lot of the time it's just developers not trying very hard with some Series S ports, we see some really good ones so it's obviously possible. The big three of Forza, Redfall and Starfield will tell us a lot early next year.
 

DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
Devs complaining about the lack of memory just refused the fact that this consoles have SFS which have been advertised by Microsoft long time ago, I don't get what's the reason not to use this feature in practice already. And DF seems most of the time also forget to include this on their topic, Microsoft literally introduced a solution for the memory problem.
I've asked myself this question over and over again. I'm thinking it might require a complete engine rework to make the feature work and most developers don't want to take the time to implement it. Also if SFS is not available on PS5 that might be a reason too. Tough to make a 3rd party title when a platform lacks some features. Perhaps MS need to provide additional support to show developers traditional methods of dumping everything into RAM might not be the best way to proceed.
 

clampzyn

Member
I've asked myself this question over and over again. I'm thinking it might require a complete engine rework to make the feature work and most developers don't want to take the time to implement it. Also if SFS is not available on PS5 that might be a reason too. Tough to make a 3rd party title when a platform lacks some features. Perhaps MS need to provide additional support to show developers traditional methods of dumping everything into RAM might not be the best way to proceed.

Yea they need to move on and rework their engine for next/current gen consoles, they need to stop cross-gen development already.
 
I assume this line isn't Series S specific and applies to both Series consoles.

Improved performance for graphics allocations
‘Titles can now take better advantage of recent memory enhancements’. “We’ve addressed an issue where graphics virtual addresses were being allocated considerably slower than non-graphics virtual addresses…”

I wonder what difference these will make? Faster texture loading, less pop in, etc
 

SlimySnake

Member
So I guess those rumors and DF reporting on devs complaining about the series s memory issues were true after all. I was told on this forum that it was not an issue.

Too little too late. Hundreds of extra MB is nothing when you are still bound by memory bandwidth and an extremely low tflops count for a next gen console. They shouldve always targeted a 6 tflops console to match the X1x tflops count and given it the same memory allocation as the x1x with an SSD and CPU upgrade. Too many cost cutting measures just to hit a $299 price point with no regard for how watered down the experience would be for their consumers. Now they are scrambling and hoping to find ram but it wont be enough.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
I assume this line isn't Series S specific and applies to both Series consoles.

Improved performance for graphics allocations
‘Titles can now take better advantage of recent memory enhancements’. “We’ve addressed an issue where graphics virtual addresses were being allocated considerably slower than non-graphics virtual addresses…”

I wonder what difference these will make? Faster texture loading, less pop in, etc

Seems like this applies to both consoles from the wording.
 

DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
So I guess those rumors and DF reporting on devs complaining about the series s memory issues were true after all. I was told on this forum that it was not an issue.

Too little too late. Hundreds of extra MB is nothing when you are still bound by memory bandwidth and an extremely low tflops count for a next gen console. They shouldve always targeted a 6 tflops console to match the X1x tflops count and given it the same memory allocation as the x1x with an SSD and CPU upgrade. Too many cost cutting measures just to hit a $299 price point with no regard for how watered down the experience would be for their consumers. Now they are scrambling and hoping to find ram but it wont be enough.
This is a strawman. No one said no developers complained. People rightfully questioned if those complaints came AFTER implementing the memory saving features MS built into their consoles. The answer time and time again was no. It is odd to complain you don't have enough memory yet not use the features that would help save the precious resources you claim you need.

The comments about 'watered down' experiences still ignores the fact not one XSS game is missing a core gameplay feature or level because it can't be implemented on the platform. No one can point to a game that was hampered on other platforms because of the XSS's existence. The detractors can't explain why kids and casual gamers need MORE graphical power when they are already impressed with what the XSS offers for a price that is unmatched in the console space.

People are having a hard time understanding and accepting that not every console needs to be built for hard-core gamers and the industry is better off with MORE people gaming than shrinking the space with niche expensive devices that cater to a small audiences with excessive time and resources. The sales of the XSS prove MS knows more about the games industry than random fans on message boards. I'm glad they are taking steps to get more people gaming.
 
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I've asked myself this question over and over again. I'm thinking it might require a complete engine rework to make the feature work and most developers don't want to take the time to implement it. Also if SFS is not available on PS5 that might be a reason too. Tough to make a 3rd party title when a platform lacks some features. Perhaps MS need to provide additional support to show developers traditional methods of dumping everything into RAM might not be the best way to proceed.

SFS is just MS's branding for a method of handling real-time texture streaming and shading. MS themselves describe the process of texture shading (without) and (with) SFS as follows:

*WITHOUT SFS*

For background, the general texture space shading algorithm does not require sampler feedback. The texture space shading process works like this:

  1. Consider a 3-D object or 3-D scene element which should be shaded in texture space.
  2. Allocate a target texture of suitable resolution for how close the object will tend to be relative to the camera.
  3. Determine a scheme for mapping locations on the surface of that object, in world space, to areas of that target texture. Fortunately, real scenarios often have the notion of {U, V} co-ordinates per object, and a {U, V} unwrapping map to act as this scheme.
  4. Draw the scene, targeting the target texture. For this pass, it may be desirable to simply run a compute shader instead of a conventional graphics render, using a pre-canned mapping of geometry-to-target-space with no notion of a “camera”. This pass would be the pass in which expensive lighting operations are used.
  5. Draw the scene once again, targeting the final target. The object is rasterized to the screen. Shading the object is a simple texture lookup which already contains the result of the scene’s lighting computations. This is a far less expensive rendering operation compared to the previous step.

*WITH SFS*

Steps 1, through 3, are the same as in the above section.

  1. Draw objects straightforwardly to the final target in screen space. For each object with which texture-space shading will be used, keep a feedback map of which areas of objects’ target texture would be updated.
  2. For objects with which texture-space-shading will be used, draw the scene targeting the objects’ target texture. This pass would be the pass in which expensive lighting operations are used. But, do not shade areas of the target texture not included in the feedback map.
  3. Draw the scene once again, targeting the final target. The object is rasterized to the screen. Shading the object is a simple texture lookup which already contains the result of the scene’s lighting computations.

The difference between the two is the presence of a feedback map which is used to hold a sampler map of all the textures that need a shading pass with lighting already accounted for in the shading pass. Basically with SFS, you only do a draw of the scene with the areas including the target texture itself where the lighting is calculated (but not shaded), then that lighting is saved to a LUT and combined with the texture feedback map's texture during the full scene shading operation.

SFS isn't tied to specific hardware; it's a software algorithm and logic stack addressed through API calls, and whatever specific hardware is used for performing SFS (compute shaders (CUs) are mentioned in the example) would be present on any RDNA2-based GPU; it's simply the methodology of exposing the hardware for the operation on behalf of the platform holder of that specific GPU implementation of the RDNA2-based spec that will change. Microsoft have theirs in SFS; Sony almost assuredly have a method for similar calculations of their own leveraging their own APIs, I/O subsystem features and whatnot.

It just simply wouldn't be called SFS, because that is Microsoft's branding for their technological product for their implementation of such a feature on their hardware.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
It's not a Microsoft term or branding at all, developers can use it in Vulkan as well as confirmed by AMD.
Also Microsoft have made adjustments to the RDNA2 hardware in the form of filters for SFS.

"Microsoft implemented a new method for texture filtering and sharpening on hardware. This is used to smooth the loading transition from mip8 to mip4 or mip0…etc"
 
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Corndog

Member
I've asked myself this question over and over again. I'm thinking it might require a complete engine rework to make the feature work and most developers don't want to take the time to implement it. Also if SFS is not available on PS5 that might be a reason too. Tough to make a 3rd party title when a platform lacks some features. Perhaps MS need to provide additional support to show developers traditional methods of dumping everything into RAM might not be the best way to proceed.
They had to totally rewrite for ps3 compared to 360. They could certainly manage this.
Edit: plus the gpu apis are different right now anyway. You are already writing custom directx x code for Xbox compared to Sonys gpu api.
 
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ChiefDada

Member
Meanwhile we still don't know about the OS RAM allocation for PS5, let alone these kind of improvements. Continue the radio silence Sony, don't let single word escape Jim, you are the best. On a more serious note, i wholeheartedly congratulate Microsoft for the open communication about such things as a console tech enthusiast.

iirc back when PS5 details were released, NX Gamer theorized that PS5 games could access ~15gb of RAM because remaining ~1.5 could be pulled from the SSD in a fraction of a second. Matt Hargett, who worked on PS5, basically confirmed it. He referenced NX video and commented, wondering why DF did not cover this feature in their analysis.

NXGamer NXGamer , apologies in advance if I misquoted you.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
Meanwhile we still don't know about the OS RAM allocation for PS5, let alone these kind of improvements. Continue the radio silence Sony, don't let single word escape Jim, you are the best. On a more serious note, i wholeheartedly congratulate Microsoft for the open communication about such things as a console tech enthusiast.

Richard at DF said in the DF weekly that PS5 developers get 12.5gb.
 

Moses85

Member
Sony like

Horror Reaction GIF by SpongeBob SquarePants


Just kidding. They are more like.

 
Richard at DF said in the DF weekly that PS5 developers get 12.5gb.

That factually makes no sense considering historically PS's OS has been more lightweight than Xbox's, plus in terms of SSD I/O management PS5 has more hardware for offloading that from the CPU and most of the OS than Xbox Series.

So Richard is either pulling numbers out of his ass, or guessimating without providing any sources. Even accounting for PSVR2 there is no logical reason PS5 needs to reserve 3.5 GB for the OS, unless Richard's comment was in regards to GPU RAM footprint, which would be much more believable.

It's not a Microsoft term or branding at all, developers can use it in Vulkan as well as confirmed by AMD.
Also Microsoft have made adjustments to the RDNA2 hardware in the form of filters for SFS.

"Microsoft implemented a new method for texture filtering and sharpening on hardware. This is used to smooth the loading transition from mip8 to mip4 or mip0…etc"

I'm aware of the mip-blending hardware on Xbox Series. It's designed so that if there is a texture pass miss, the hardware can generate an approximate texture for the missing texture until the required texture is in RAM and ready for use.

Vulkan is still its own suite of APIs, similar to DX12U. Sony does not use Vulkan, they use a proprietary suite of APIs and license those out to 3P partners through the PS5 SDK.
 
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DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
SFS isn't tied to specific hardware; it's a software algorithm and logic stack addressed through API calls, and whatever specific hardware is used for performing SFS (compute shaders (CUs) are mentioned in the example) would be present on any RDNA2-based GPU; it's simply the methodology of exposing the hardware for the operation on behalf of the platform holder of that specific GPU implementation of the RDNA2-based spec that will change. Microsoft have theirs in SFS; Sony almost assuredly have a method for similar calculations of their own leveraging their own APIs, I/O subsystem features and whatnot.
The question that I haven't seen answered is if developers are using the feature to deal with the memory issues they claim they are having. Some have complained about memory on the XSS but I haven't heard if they used SFS to mitigate the issue. Have you heard anything?
 
The question that I haven't seen answered is if developers are using the feature to deal with the memory issues they claim they are having. Some have complained about memory on the XSS but I haven't heard if they used SFS to mitigate the issue. Have you heard anything?

No, I haven't seen any developers necessarily come out and state they're using SFS. Maybe they are now, maybe they aren't, maybe they've been using it for a while now. At the very least I'd of expected some 1P games to maybe use it but...

...seeing as how MS were waiting for DirectStorage to deploy on PCs until not that long ago, and that they probably don't want to use features for games on the console that they couldn't have for the PC versions at launch (they'd have to patch in support later), it's possible even 1P titles have not been using it yet. Though I don't think they have any ATM which would be demanding enough at a technical level to require it besides maybe Flight Sim and Forza Horizon 5.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
That factually makes no sense considering historically PS's OS has been more lightweight than Xbox's, plus in terms of SSD I/O management PS5 has more hardware for offloading that from the CPU and most of the OS than Xbox Series.

So Richard is either pulling numbers out of his ass, or guessimating without providing any sources. Even accounting for PSVR2 there is no logical reason PS5 needs to reserve 3.5 GB for the OS, unless Richard's comment was in regards to GPU RAM footprint, which would be much more believable.



I'm aware of the mip-blending hardware on Xbox Series. It's designed so that if there is a texture pass miss, the hardware can generate an approximate texture for the missing texture until the required texture is in RAM and ready for use.

Vulkan is still its own suite of APIs, similar to DX12U. Sony does not use Vulkan, they use a proprietary suite of APIs and license those out to 3P partners through the PS5 SDK.

Maybe take it up with DF, he seemed pretty sure of his figure, probably got it from developers under NDA so isn't going to say who, just like he doesn't say who was talking about Xbox Series S memory, people accept that though.

The API is irrelevant, there is a hardware difference in the Series consoles, confirmed. SFS is touted as a fundamental part of the VA, therefore hardware adjustments. Sony probably feel they don't need it due to raw throughput instead. It wasn't mentioned in the Road To PS5 unlike primitive Shaders.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
The question that I haven't seen answered is if developers are using the feature to deal with the memory issues they claim they are having. Some have complained about memory on the XSS but I haven't heard if they used SFS to mitigate the issue. Have you heard anything?

According to Jason Ronald he said earlier this year late 2022, however since everything has been delayed then probably whatever games he was talking about are delayed.
It makes sense to me that if Turn 10 are getting 60fps with in gameplay RT that they may be the first, especially since they have rebuilt their engine.
DF talk about this in today's video as well, saying it will be the most advanced RT on consoles so far, if that happens on Series S then it's a big deal.
 

Corndog

Member
That factually makes no sense considering historically PS's OS has been more lightweight than Xbox's, plus in terms of SSD I/O management PS5 has more hardware for offloading that from the CPU and most of the OS than Xbox Series.

So Richard is either pulling numbers out of his ass, or guessimating without providing any sources. Even accounting for PSVR2 there is no logical reason PS5 needs to reserve 3.5 GB for the OS, unless Richard's comment was in regards to GPU RAM footprint, which would be much more believable.



I'm aware of the mip-blending hardware on Xbox Series. It's designed so that if there is a texture pass miss, the hardware can generate an approximate texture for the missing texture until the required texture is in RAM and ready for use.

Vulkan is still its own suite of APIs, similar to DX12U. Sony does not use Vulkan, they use a proprietary suite of APIs and license those out to 3P partners through the PS5 SDK.
Not true. 360 os was much smaller than ps3. Also ps5 screen is 4K and series is lower res which probably saves a lot of memory.
 
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So I guess those rumors and DF reporting on devs complaining about the series s memory issues were true after all. I was told on this forum that it was not an issue.

Too little too late. Hundreds of extra MB is nothing when you are still bound by memory bandwidth and an extremely low tflops count for a next gen console. They shouldve always targeted a 6 tflops console to match the X1x tflops count and given it the same memory allocation as the x1x with an SSD and CPU upgrade. Too many cost cutting measures just to hit a $299 price point with no regard for how watered down the experience would be for their consumers. Now they are scrambling and hoping to find ram but it wont be enough.
With games like GT7, Horizon Forbidden West, and God of War Ragnarok being available on base PS4 jaguar CPU cores this far into the generation, I don't think Series S is the bottleneck hardware you should be worried about :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

SlimySnake

Member
With games like GT7, Horizon Forbidden West, and God of War Ragnarok being available on base PS4 jaguar CPU cores this far into the generation, I don't think Series S is the bottleneck hardware you should be worried about :messenger_tears_of_joy:
But I never said series S is going to be the bottleneck hardware in my post. I was strictly talking about the performance of the console.
 

Corndog

Member
iirc back when PS5 details were released, NX Gamer theorized that PS5 games could access ~15gb of RAM because remaining ~1.5 could be pulled from the SSD in a fraction of a second. Matt Hargett, who worked on PS5, basically confirmed it. He referenced NX video and commented, wondering why DF did not cover this feature in their analysis.

NXGamer NXGamer , apologies in advance if I misquoted you.
Ssd is never going to be able to be a substitute for actual ram. Just look at the bandwidth difference. Gpu ram bandwidths is in the hundreds of gigabytes while the ssd is single digits. Don’t believe that guys bullcrap.
 
But I never said series S is going to be the bottleneck hardware in my post. I was strictly talking about the performance of the console.
Too many cost cutting measures just to hit a $299 price point with no regard for how watered down the experience would be for their consumers.
You're saying people who play on Xbox Series S will be dissatisfied with their gaming experience compared to PS5 and XSX owners, as if they didn't know they won't be enjoying the cutting edge of console hardware after paying only a fraction of the price. The only people I've seen complain about XSS so far are people who don't own one.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Yes there was. Listen to it again.

No there wasn’t and I don’t need to

Edit: how do you think the new hardware features are exposed?

Through PSSL, which was not discussed.

I mean....here is the transcript:
 
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Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
So I guess those rumors and DF reporting on devs complaining about the series s memory issues were true after all. I was told on this forum that it was not an issue.

Too little too late. Hundreds of extra MB is nothing when you are still bound by memory bandwidth and an extremely low tflops count for a next gen console. They shouldve always targeted a 6 tflops console to match the X1x tflops count and given it the same memory allocation as the x1x with an SSD and CPU upgrade. Too many cost cutting measures just to hit a $299 price point with no regard for how watered down the experience would be for their consumers. Now they are scrambling and hoping to find ram but it wont be enough.

This point is already not a thing because Microsoft also provided the most powerful console.
No one is forced to buy an Series if they dont want a "watered down experience", but for many it wont be a watered down experience, which is why those people would choose a series S
 
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