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[Punished Miku]

They most likely are and it will be proven when the sales numbers are pitiful.

It makes no sense to buy a game and rent it. I agree.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I still don’t see this truly damaging Sony. If anything, a new company will fill the gap and activision will be worth far less than ms paid or they will put it on ps5.

None of this computes to me

 

[In Cold Blood]

Wow @ Sony.
All they have to do is put their first party games day and date on PS+ and bingo Bango, they have matched Gamepass.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

They are more reliant on direct sales to "exist" because they need to stay profitable as a division to continue to exist. It's not that complicated really, not every company has the luxury to be able to aggressively persue loss leader strategies.

If you think gamepass is profitable in the truest sense then I have a bridge to sell to you. All will be revealed soon enough.



I remembered it because that was a reply to me after I originally called you out on this. At that point you denied it but now you're being honest. Like I said, it's better this way. And no, for the record I'm not "ban baiting you".

No, again you want to put words into my mouth and you really didn't assimilate the content of my latter quoted reply you have above either. I never denied anything. I replied and gave a clearer picture of what sort of gamer I currently am and what I play on, those quotes you seem to have spent time looking up and reposted don't equate to you claiming I was denying not liking Sony in the current day. I used to own a PS1/2 and PS3 for some part of that gen. I loved Ridge Racer etc and hell even the music visualiser from PS1.

Anyhow here we are again shitting up another thread based on some "Sony needs saving" bullshit, that doesn't even apply to me or my so called "living in denial" about not liking Sony. Feel free to move on mate.

 

[Robb]

I’d hope so for MS sake considering they releases all their big first party titles day and date on the service.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Only thing Sony got right is Game Pass is way ahead of PS Plus, not in subscribers, but surely in quality and value. The rest is desperate nonsense.

 

[Yoboman]

What clowns. They withhold their own games from the service and then claim this crap.

Maybe they like their $100 million GOTY games being profitable

 

[Yoboman]

Only thing Sony got right is Game Pass is way ahead of PS Plus, not in subscribers, but surely in quality and value. The rest is desperate nonsense.

Only in subs

 

[Corndog]

I love both subscriptions. Only downfall with PS plus extra is no day 1 releases (as a consumer... As I company I get it).



Sony should do a 3 or 6 month release on 1st party titles. At that point most sales would have been made.

Have a set policy. Even 1 year would be fine. Just make it consistent. Also have better pc support. Let people know what games are coming to pc and have a consistent timeframe.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Maybe they like their $100 million GOTY games being profitable

And they'll still have them.

What does MS owning COD have to do with Sony first party games not being on sub plan? Nothing. MLB The Show is on GP, while Sony locks it under a standard $70 price tag. Pretty sure PS baseball gamers arent bailing ship to buy Xbox.

Gamers claim consoles are all about exclusive games making the difference. COD will still be on PS systems. And it'll be on PC. And by the sounds of it, even Nintendo systems will get a version too.

 

[Tams]

And I think Game Pass is a threat to the industry/hobby.

It grossly devalues anything on it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

And I think Game Pass is a threat to the industry/hobby.

It grossly devalues anything on it.

That goes for PS, UBI and EA sub plans too.

The only difference is GP and EA's PC Ultimate version have first party day one games. I dont know if day one games show up on UBI+.

If any company wants to devalue their own first party games, who cares. Thats on them.

But since PS and Xbox sub plans have third party games on it too, they wouldnt do it if it wasnt worth doing. They get whatever partnership fee cut agree upon. No different than exclusivity or timed exclusive deals. Seems like a disservice to gamers on platforms left in the cold. But if that game studio is getting a giant sum of money to keep it off another platform for a year or two, they'll do it if the money is good enough.

Music and streaming sites are the same, yet nobody complains. Before they came about everyone had to buy CDs and DVDs at $10-30 each. Now, almost nobody buys physical movies and music except hardcore 4k movie buyers and vinyl collectors. Instead of spending $500-1000 on content to make a stack of plastic cases, people stream it on NF or Spotify for a couple hundred bucks and get 100x the quantity of content.

 

[Kenshin775]

And I think Game Pass is a threat to the industry/hobby.

It grossly devalues anything on it.

Subscription services are a great way to discover new games. It doesn't devalue anything. people like me grew up on Sega channel found gems like Shining Force and Phantasy star. It actually warms my heart to think that newer jrpg games/franchises like Scarlet Nexus, Yakuza and Dragon Quest are being discovered by kids today and these games have been so well received by a user base that doesn't traditionally play jrpg's.

These people would have never played these games if it wasn't for Game Pass. Btw for anyone that has a slight interest Fuga: Melodies of Steel is awesome and you should check it out

 

[StealthGoblin]

What clowns. They withhold their own games from the service and then claim this crap.

Indeed. It’s almost like they have endless money and can lose hundreds of millions in revenue and not even blink

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Subscription services are a great way to discover new games. It doesn't devalue anything. people like me grew up on Sega channel found gems like Shining Force and Phantasy star. It actually warms my heart to think that newer jrpg games/franchises like Scarlet Nexus, Yakuza and Dragon Quest are being discovered by kids today and these games have been so well received by a user base that doesn't traditionally play jrpg's.

These people would have never played these games if it wasn't for Game Pass. Btw for anyone that has a slight interest Fuga: Melodies of Steel is awesome and you should check it out

If media got devalued by sub plans, no company would release their content on sub plans. Just lock it behind physical copies bought from stores or paid downloads.

So for a musician, lock it behind paid downloads or vinyl to lock in solid $15 fees from each customer instead of some canned Spotify deal where each song streamed is worth 0.005 cents or whatever the garbage deal they agree to.

For games the same thing. Why dump it on a sub plan? Just keep it available only with disc sales and e-store downloads at good prices.

No sub plan forces any company to be part of it. So if the content creator wants to do it, thats on them. Now if a sub plan controller is forcing a third party content creator to be part of the sub plan or face retribution thats different. But I dont think there is such a strongarmed deal out there.

 

[TLZ]

“it is beyond doubt that Game Pass is far ahead of PlayStation Plus.”

I tried looking for this quote but all websites quoting without sourcing. I can only source it back to Tom Warren's tweet, who has an image attached of the supposed source but I couldn't find it in there.

Anyone know the source? I find it hard to believe Sony would say that about their own service.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Tbf we don't know how profitable it is, so "marginally" may or may not be accurate.

Still though, his post looks a lot different if you know GP is profitable rather than bleeding money.

It's fair to assume its closer to marginal profitability rates versus record profitability rates. Microsoft's own software and services revenue reports from the fiscal earnings calls suggest as such.

But we can both agree it's not bleeding money. That much is fair.

Another reason so much hardware is sold via Playstation is movies and mods/piracy/bootlegs etc. There's a reason you don't see 50 million sales of one game from their 120+Million user base. It's the same when PS2/3 were around and the asian markets would eat up the hardware because Xbox enforced DVD/Bluray regions and Playstation did not, deliberately. Same goes for piracy in the eastern markets, it's not enforced like it is in US/UK etc. The industry has matured to the point it's not napster or limewire levels anymore but it's still prevalent in the profits vs install base.

Cool so both companies support piracy. At least Sony just limit it to Blu-Ray movies in foreign grey markets. Microsoft let folks in the West straight up run emulators of Sony, Sega, Nintendo etc. consoles and games just no care in the world.

Doesn't matter if these are older games. It's still a platform holder enabling infringement of copyrighted gaming material to act as a selling point. I mean in that context what sets a Series S that far apart from a Super Natendroid Z on Amazon? Or a Super Console X2 if you want an example of something real? Or hell even the Souljaboy console?

They changed from "never" to 365 days virtually overnight. I'm not nostradaumus. But they're obviously, obviously chasing the MS strategy. Just admit it. They may win just copying what MS is doing. But they're copying.

They did? Then where's GT7 in PS+?

You need more than a single example to prove a case.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

And they'll still have them.

What does MS owning COD have to do with Sony first party games not being on sub plan? Nothing. MLB The Show is on GP, while Sony locks it under a standard $70 price tag. Pretty sure PS baseball gamers arent bailing ship to buy Xbox.

Gamers claim consoles are all about exclusive games making the difference. COD will still be on PS systems. And it'll be on PC. And by the sounds of it, even Nintendo systems will get a version too.

Same with Fifa and Madden. If you were to believe some on here, everyone would have sold their Playstations to play those titles on GP, but they're still top 10 sellers for Playstation.

 

[gothmog]

I read the whole article twice. Where does Sony say this?

 

[Lupin25]

And they'll still have them.

What does MS owning COD have to do with Sony first party games not being on sub plan? Nothing. MLB The Show is on GP, while Sony locks it under a standard $70 price tag. Pretty sure PS baseball gamers arent bailing ship to buy Xbox.

Gamers claim consoles are all about exclusive games making the difference. COD will still be on PS systems. And it'll be on PC. And by the sounds of it, even Nintendo systems will get a version too.

It’s hard to compare COD (a mega franchise) to something like MLB Baseball lol

And after this acquisition.. they would essentially be the home of FPS/WRPG’s, with tons of IP perfect for gamepass.

There would be TONS of reasons to switch to Xbox then. Acti-Blizz is fucking massive.

 

[adamsapple]

I read the whole article twice. Where does Sony say this?

It's derived from their response to the CMA.

 

[SplunkyMunkey]

The main concern is if Microsoft did put the games on psplus the point is GP is like x amount where it be full blown $70 which make gp more appealing. Sony would probably lose subscribers and move to gp

 

[gothmog]

It's derived from their response to the CMA.

Derived? What does that mean? It's in quotes, so where did Sony say that?

 

[adamsapple]

Derived? What does that mean? It's in quotes, so where did Sony say that?

Happy my dear angry friend ?

 

[gothmog]

Happy my dear angry friend ?

Thanks. There's thousands of pages of documents so it's weird that an article didn't just directly source it.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

which is some very creative thinking. However, I believe Sony may have chosen the wrong legal team for this job because to anyone with a minimal knowledge of the industry this is slightly silly.

I don’t think it will happen either but the point is - contracts are only valid as long as you can enforce them and breaking them is less advantageous than keeping with them. It’s not a holy document written with a blood of your first born. In e.g. China it’s perfectly normal to sign a contract and then walk back on it a week later.

Having said that - it’s a fucking videogame, just make something else. It’s buzzard to me this is even a point of contention.

 

[adamsapple]

Thanks. There's thousands of pages of documents so it's weird that an article didn't just directly source it.

Yeah, the yahoo article sources playstation lifestyle, which just has statements without a single page or picture of the base document in their article.

It's weird, even Warren's tweet where he says that, the image of the page he attached is a different one.

 

[Ash Sparrow]

Lost all respect for Sony, they are ridiculous.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Lost all respect for Sony, they are ridiculous.

all?

 

[DonJimbo]

Jimbooooooo

 

[gothmog]

Yeah, the yahoo article sources playstation lifestyle, which just has statements without a single page or picture of the base document in their article.

It's weird, even Warren's tweet where he says that, the image of the page he attached is a different one.

Yeah it was just weird. Thanks. As always you're a generally good sport.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

I want to know who the Lycos dog believes here.

 

[Black_Stride]

Day and Date PS Plus on console.
PS Plus on Steam.

Now we are cooking with gas.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Microsoft invested in game pass early and is seeing the fruits of it. While Microsoft was too busy focusing on kinect and riding out the last years of 360 into xbox one, Sony invested in their story driven first party ip and it paid off big time.

Microsoft is now trying to play catch up on first party AAA games and Sony knows that the general public are migrating to subscription services across all media...

Just the way things go.

 

[fermcr]

Both companies are claiming...

 

[GymWolf]

No shit.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Even making $1 over operating costs is "profitable". Until MS gives up the actual numbers for revenue and profit, considering the service has stagnated in growth for a long time, best to assume "profitability" is just a term with little to prove it's substantial when MS brings it up in relation to Game Pass.



This is the first suggestion from pro-Game Pass people I've heard that's actually reasonable. A 10% discount for users with X amount of PS Rewards points who are subbed to any PS+ tier when they buy the game new from the PS Store between a certain period from launch, is actually a sound idea.

We'll have to see if Sony offers something like that. They probably should, but no telling if they will.



Then ban them both.

Do other manufacturers offer independent breakdowns of the profit and loss of selling their games. How do you know how profitable their games are...do you actually worry about this or just enjoy the games?

 

[kyussman]

Seeing these two giant successful corporations trying to disparage themselves in order to get this deal to go in their favour has been hilarious.

 

[StueyDuck]

I love both subscriptions. Only downfall with PS plus extra is no day 1 releases (as a consumer... As I company I get it).



Sony should do a 3 or 6 month release on 1st party titles. At that point most sales would have been made.

I agree because... yeah it'd be nice to play everything with no added cost.

But having been subbed to gamepass for years now and having all the 1st party games available on launch the service has become a demo service for me now.

You could probably chalk most that up to the quality of first party titles hitting the service maybe but as of the last however many years. The only first party titles I've actually pushed myself to complete is halo infinite and gears 5

Everything else I touch for at most 4 hours then drop.

So as a consumer when I'm dropping $60-70 on a game I have to make sure its something I want and something I'll keep playing.

These services cause gaming fatigue. They are great for kids with no income or financially struggling parents

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Game Pass as a service is definitely better than Sonys offering in the sense that Xbox put their games on the service day one.

The problem at the moment is that there isn’t much I want to play on Game Pass, outside of Halo Infinite and 10 minutes of Forza Horizon 5 I didn’t really use it. I’m sure this will change in the near future though.

 

[mrmustard]

Can't wait till this deal drama is over.

 

[CortexVortex]

PSNow was underwhelming for a long time, but I'm happy with how Plus Extra is developing.

 

[Neofire]

Why would Sony put their games on psn plus day when even MS said that putting games on GP cannibalizes sales.

Sony is 100% right about MS switching up once the ABK deal gets sealed, if Sony actually said all that though......yahoo isn't exactly impeccable with their sources.

 

[DenchDeckard]

PSNow was underwhelming for a long time, but I'm happy with how Plus Extra is developing.

The reason that competition is key. Sony would have never made PS Plus Extra and sure as shit wouldn't have put Horizon on it within a year if it wasnt for MS and game pass.

So, we all win. Interested to see what else comes this year.

 

[Helghan]

Game Pass as a service is definitely better than Sonys offering in the sense that Xbox put their games on the service day one.

The problem at the moment is that there isn’t much I want to play on Game Pass, outside of Halo Infinite and 10 minutes of Forza Horizon 5 I didn’t really use it. I’m sure this will change in the near future though.

What do you play mostly? I never have a moment that I'm like there's nothing to play at all

 

[Mephisto40]

I subscribe to both services and can honestly say I think the quality of games on Playstation+ is better imo

 

[Roberts]

What do you play mostly? I never have a moment that I'm like there's nothing to play at all

Yeah, I guess I’m open minded about trying out different things. There have been games that I played for 10-15 minutes and quit, but for the most part there is always something that I’m willing to play. My GP vs bought games ratio has been probably around 80:20 over the last two years or so.

 

[Kokoloko85]

What clowns. They withhold their own games from the service and then claim this crap.

Clowns who make money selling games. Like Nintendo right?

Yet xbox hasnt shown any proof it makes money from gamepass. And doesn’t show it sales on games either.
Without MS money, Xbox couldnt give day 1 releases to gamepass….

Empathy is on you Hendricks, you make no sense…

 

[AstronomerIT]

Both Microsoft and Sony praising each other, what a bromance.

No, they are actually downplaying each other

 

[CircleOfFire]

Sony has never cared about putting their own games on PS+ Extra day 1. Maybe they should start there if they want to make their service more attractive.

They're trying to pretend that MS gouging them would keep COD off PS+ Extra when in reality they aren't interested in paying even a fair market price.

MS giving a better value makes us look bad is a pretty weak argument.

What? They're saying that MS could require them to pay $100 for each copy of CoD picked up on PS+ or ask for some fantastically massive flat fee for it. That would in turn make the value worse by comparison.

If GamePass is (for example) $10 a month with CoD included, MS could set a price for Sony which makes PS+ $15 a month with CoD included. Then customers would, quite understandably, buy an XBox instead to save themselves hundreds of dollars over a couple of years. Especially if all they care about is playing CoD.