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http://www.richmond.com/news/virgin...cle_ff963fe8-d438-5a59-858a-272120f2eb5a.html

A state commission planning a new anti-slavery monument in downtown Richmond voted Wednesday to include Nat Turner, the leader of a bloody 1831 slave uprising in Southampton County, among a group of 10 African-American figures who will be honored on the statue's base.

The work on the new statue being done by the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Commission has thus far avoided controversy, but the decision to include Turner - seen as a freedom fighter by many and a mass murderer by others - is likely to bring a new level of attention to the planning process for the monument meant to celebrate the Emancipation Proclamation and the end of slavery.

Turner was by far the most hotly debated name Wednesday as a panel state lawmakers and historians tried to select 10 honorees from a list of 30 finalists.

"If nothing else, he's the bravest black man in that era," said Charles Withers, a commission member from Roanoke who pushed for Turner's inclusion. "It's problematic for me as a black man in modern-day society to stand up sometimes. I can't imagine the courage that Nat Turner had."

Making the case against Turner's inclusion, Lauranett Lee, a professor at the University of Richmond and the founding curator of African-American history at the Virginia Historical Society, said women and children were among the roughly 60 people killed before Turner, a preacher who believed God wanted him to lead slaves against their white owners, was caught and executed. The end result of the revolt, Lee said, was a crackdown on African-Americans who had no part in the insurrection.

"We have two people who have spoken against having Nat Turner on the monument," Lee said. "Ultimately, what did Nat Turner's actions do?"

 

[Shauni]

Hear that? That's the sound of conservatives being triggered

 

[Dishwalla]

Neat.

 

[Toa TAK]

'Bout time.

 

[Marvie_3]

Good

 

[tbm24]

"If nothing else, he's the bravest black man in that era," said Charles Withers, a commission member from Roanoke who pushed for Turner's inclusion. "It's problematic for me as a black man in modern-day society to stand up sometimes. I can't imagine the courage that Nat Turner had."

Well said, I await the hateful backlash.

 

[gdt]

Oh man the tears will be delicious.

I love it.

 

[Loudninja]

Fantastic.

 

[RinsFury]

In our lifetime I hope to see every confederate statue torn down and replaced them with anti-slavery and civil rights movement figures.

 

[Deku Tree]

Nat Turner (October 2, 1800 – November 11, 1831) was an enslaved African American who led a rebellion of slaves and free blacks in Southampton County, Virginia on August 21, 1831. The rebels went from plantation to plantation, gathering horses and guns, freeing other slaves along the way, and recruiting other blacks who wanted to join their revolt. During the rebellion, Virginia legislators targeted free blacks with a colonization bill, which allocated new funding to remove them, and a police bill that denied free blacks trials by jury and made any free blacks convicted of a crime subject to sale and relocation.[1] The rebellion resulted in the deaths of 55 to 65 white people. Whites organized militias and called out regular troops to suppress the uprising. In addition, white militias and mobs attacked blacks in the area, killing an estimated 120,[2][3] many of whom were not involved in the revolt.[4]


In the aftermath, the state quickly arrested and executed 55 blacks accused of being part of Turner's slave rebellion. Turner hid successfully for two months. When found, he was tried, convicted, sentenced to death, and hanged

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner

 

[Slime]

White America: But that's unfair to slave owners Where are all the slave owner statues???

 

[SkateorDi3]

Oh man the tears will be delicious.

I love it.

Richmond is actually quite liberal. I lived there for over 5 years. The people who were protesting the other day were just the wackos. There wont be anyone yelling when this gets erected.

 

[D i Z]

I wonder who'll be the first to try to earn their stripes by putting some bullets into it.

 

[Dirca]

Oh man the tears will be delicious.

I love it.

Just wait until it gets torn down. I'm willing to bet some nut(s) will graffiti it or just tear it down

 

[Alligatorjandro]

People are gonna be mad

 

[Violater]

The Caribbean says "welcome to the party" More monuments like these need to be erected

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Oh boy.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Dope as fuck

 

[HiredN00bs]

Hope this becomes a trend.

 

[F0rneus]

What are the oods on the people who are for Confederate statues and monuments staying up (to preseve "history") being royally pissed at this?

 

[ponpo]

This is the person that a recent film was about right?

White America: But that's unfair to slave owners Where are all the slave owner statues???

mt rushmore am I right??????????

Spoiler

i think I remember seeing that in an older statue thread

 

[Baroquemantic]

Nice.

 

[Wilsongt]

Hear that? That's the sound of conservatives being triggered

Yep. I can hear it already.

 

[Strike]

Now that's something worth celebrating.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

That's good, real good.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Turner - seen as a freedom fighter by many and a mass murderer by others

The same people who see him as this are the type to celebrate soldiers going into foreign lands to kill people who aren't a direct threat to our country. Somehow to them killing on foreign lands is more admirable than killing for your own freedom.

 

[SeanC]

This is going to trigger some folks, that's for sure.

Complicated man, complicated feelings on him myself TBH. Goes across the board to people who feel "empowered by God" or "chosen" for me, but that's my severe atheism shining through.

No complications on what he stood for and why he rebelled, though. Needs a statue.

 

[Sean C]

Regarding Lauranett Lee's argument against Turner, she has an entirely valid viewpoint, but I don't think it's a problem to include Turner in the memorial. Just as one shouldn't turn a blind eye to the flaws of white historical figures, the more unpleasant aspects of Turner's revolt shouldn't be ignored. However, the US celebrates quite a few white historical figures with statues who have some significant flaws in addition to their contributions. While rebellions (including, hell, the American Revolution) are always messy, I think it's fair to acknowledge the bravery of what Turner did without taking this as a justification for everything that flowed from it.

 

[Stinkles]

That's the sound of a million white guys suddenly not being all that interested in history and heritage anymore.

 

[Ovid]

His actions lead to a lot deaths including babies.

I'm indifferent about whether statue should be devoted to him.

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

This is the person that a recent film was about right?

Yes, the movie was "Birth of a Nation (2016)."

 

[Jmanunknown]

Richmond is actually quite liberal. I lived there for over 5 years. The people who were protesting the other day were just the wackos. There wont be anyone yelling when this gets erected.

Of course Richmond is liberal its a city where the majority of people that live their are black people.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Amazing!

 

[BriGuy]

I think if you're one of those "those Confederate statues tell an important part of our history!" folks, you kind of need to embrace a Nat Turner statue with open arms.

The cognitive dissonance would be too much to bear otherwise.




... But we all know damn well they'll find a way to bear it anyway.

 

[Lyon N. Laap]

The same people who see him as this are the type to celebrate soldiers going into foreign lands to kill people who aren't a direct threat to our country.

Can we not generalize everyone who disagrees with his inclusion like this? It says in the article that Lauranett Lee, history professor and curator of African American history at the Virginia Historical society also opposed making his statue. She seems to see him as a murderer, but would she fit your description?

He's got a complicated history. The people killed in his rebellion included children. But many people we choose to honor with statues have many major flaws, so him having a statue isn't really that out there for me personally, especially since he ultimately fought against slavery. But let's not pretend that everyone who'd be against it has no standing.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Can we not generalize everyone who disagrees with his inclusion like this? It says in the article that Lauranett Lee, history professor and curator of African American history at the Virginia Historical society also opposed making his statue. She seems to see him as a murderer, but would she fit your description?

He's got a complicated history. The people killed in his rebellion included children. But many people we choose to honor with statues have many major flaws, so him having a statue isn't really that out there for me personally, especially since he ultimately fought against slavery. But let's not pretend that everyone who'd be against it has no standing.

Can we not be daft? Lee didn't see him as a simple mass murderer.

 

[rpmurphy]

He deserves a statue as much as John Brown who has monuments in his honor.

 

[Conor_Fool]

Nat Turner was a fucking boss. I remember learning about him in middle school.

EDIT: Shit based on these responses I guess I got a sugarcoated version. Gonna read about his life

 

[theignoramus]

Regarding Lauranett Lee's argument against Turner, she has an entirely valid viewpoint, but I don't think it's a problem to include Turner in the memorial. Just as one shouldn't turn a blind eye to the flaws of white historical figures, the more unpleasant aspects of Turner's revolt shouldn't be ignored. However, the US celebrates quite a few white historical figures with statues who have some significant flaws in addition to their contributions. While rebellions (including, hell, the American Revolution) are always messy, I think it's fair to acknowledge the bravery of what Turner did without taking this as a justification for everything that flowed from it.

I used to be sucked into this trick of White supremacy that makes Black people select heroes that are beyond reproach.
Naaah. We should embrace all champions of the Black cause, warts and all, just as America does its White legends.
Besides, no Black American historical figurehead has ever done anything as morally questionable as what Andrew Jackson did, and White America celebrates him unabashedly. That gives Black folk the green light to celebrate whomever and wherever.

 

[DrForester]

I think if you're one of those "those Confederate statues tell an important part of our history!" folks, you kind of need to embrace a Nat Turner statue with open arms.

The cognitive dissonance would be too much to bear otherwise.




... But we all know damn well they'll find a way to bear it anyway.

I guarantee white supremacists will "protest" when it's dedicated.

 

[JCHandsom]

That's good to hear!

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

I used to be sucked into this trick of White supremacy that makes Black people select heroes that are beyond reproach.
Naaah. We should embrace all champions of the Black cause, warts and all, just as America does its White legends.
Besides, no Black American historical figurehead has ever done anything as morally questionable as what Andrew Jackson did, and White America celebrates him unabashedly. That gives Black folk the green light to celebrate whomever and wherever.

Eeeeh........

If by White America you mean the "gotta hear both sides" crew during a Neo-Nazi rally, then sure. But if that's the bar you hold yourself to, good luck.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

The man on the 20 dollar bill killed exponentially more children than Nat Turner

Nat Turner's former masters probably killed more children than Nat Turner

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

That's the sound of a million white guys suddenly not being all that interested in history and heritage anymore.

But this statue won't be old.

 

[theignoramus]

Eeeeh........

If by White America you mean the "gotta hear both sides" crew during a Neo-Nazi rally, then sure. But if that's the bar you hold yourself to, good luck.

He's on federal currency and the mere idea of a Black female abolitionist sharing that legal tender with him sent White people into a frenzy.

 

[Hubbl3]

The statue itself, scheduled to be erected on Brown’s Island by 2019, will consist of two bronze figures, one male and one female, representing anonymous slaves freed from bondage. The base will feature the names and faces of 10 historical figures who advanced the cause of freedom, separated into pre-emancipation and post-emancipation eras.

The statue itself sounds like it'll be pretty awesome. It'll honor all former slaves while at the same time highlighting 10 historical figures.

 

[Not]

Yeah, I saw this. Monuments to the people who were lynched and enslaved is a WAYYYYYYYYY better way to "remember" the Civil War IMO

EDIT: Ohh, this one specifically is for Nat Turner. I should read more about him.

 

[ST2K]

All was still at the Travis house. In the darkness the insurgents gathered about the cider press, and all drank except Turner, who never touched liquor. Then they moved across the yard with their axes. Hark placed a ladder against the house, and Turner, armed with a hatchet, climbed up and disappeared through a second-story window. In a moment he unbarred the door, and the slaves spread through the house without a sound. The others wanted Turner the prophet, Turner the black messiah, to strike the first blow and kill Joseph Travis. With Will close behind, Turner entered Travis’ bedroom and made his way to the white man’s bed. Turner swung his hatchet—a wild blow that glanced off Travis’ head and brought him out of bed yelling for his wife. But with a sure killer’s instinct Will moved in and hacked Travis to death with his axe. In minutes Will and the others had slaughtered the four whites they found in the house, including Mrs. Travis and young Putnam Moore, Turner’s legal owner. With Putnam’s death Turner felt that at last, after thirty years in bondage, he was free.

The rebels gathered up a handful of old muskets and followed “General Nat” out to the barn. There Turner paraded his men about, leading them through every military maneuver he knew. Not all of them, however, were proud of their work. Jack sank to his knees with his head in his hands and said he was sick. But Hark made him get up and forced him along as they set out across the field to the next farm. Along the way somebody remembered the Travis baby. Will and Henry returned and killed it in its cradle.

Source.

Doesn't seem like a guy worth memorializing to me. Not that such a notion has stopped memorials in the past.

 

[Volimar]

The man on the 20 dollar bill killed exponentially more children than Nat Turner

Nat Turner's former masters probably killed more children than Nat Turner

I don't really have a dog in this fight but "Come on guys, he barely killed any children" isn't the best way to frame the argument.

 

[The Faceless Master]

His actions lead to a lot deaths including babies.

I'm indifferent about whether statue should be devoted to him.

indeed

why was he being so uppity

should have just lived with the slavery in silence