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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

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Kazza

Kazza

Member
Pietanic said:
The UK updates here every afternoon just never give any positivity. Just continual bleakness. I miss my parents, not being able to visit them. And my daughter is asking where they are. FaceTime etc. Is not the same and she’s very confused. I know I sound like a bleeding hearts club and it’s a small sacrifice to make, but I am probably starting to struggle a bit with all this and am getting a bit of anxiety I’ll never see my parents again. Sounds like our lives are never going back to normal even though that may be hyperbolic. I have no faith in a vaccine coming anytime soon. Haven’t we never created a successful coronavirus vaccine?

Stay safe GAF
Click to expand...




Also bear in mind that the UK figures are not necessarily deaths that took place that day, but rather number of deaths confirmed on that particular day. So somebody could have died two weeks ago, but have only just been confirmed as a covid death.

People seem to be forgetting that most (all?) western governments have had a flatten the curve, rather than crush the curve strategy, so they will want a steady flow of infections, just not a rate that will stretch medical services too thin. There are consequences to this lockdown and single focus on covid. Hopefully the people who are panicking will calm down soon, otherwise the negative effects of the panic will outweigh those from the virus itself.

For example cancer:

 
Djau

Djau

Banned
Seems that Doctors are stumped. Alot of the deaths are caused by a mysterious blood clotting problem. Sounds like blood thinners need to be part of the treatment. If so, that makes treatment a LOT more complex.
 
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pixelation

pixelation

Member
ManaByte said:
thehill.com

The data is in — stop the panic and end the total isolation

Americans are now desperate for sensible policymakers who have the courage to ignore the panic and rely on facts.
thehill.com thehill.com
Click to expand...
That's cool and all, just sign a form that states that you refuse medical attention after you become sick. Then get out and you're free to get sick.

EDIT: To clarify, I am talking about people who just want to get out because they are bored, want to have fun whatever. Not talkiing about essential workers or people who cannot work from home.
 
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ManaByte

ManaByte

Gold Member
When CNN tries to ask a gotcha question in the briefing but gets completely shut down by Birx:
giphy.gif
 
Chaplain

Chaplain

Member
Article: Lockdowns Don’t Work (4/21/20)

My findings are striking: for every eight days (including weekends) since school cancellations began, a county tends to have one less death per 100,000 people. For every nine days a ban on gatherings over 500 people has been in place, there’s one less death per 100,000 people. These policies work. But the correlation flips for bans on gatherings of fifty people or for stay-at-home orders. For every two weeks a stay-at-home order is in place, the death rate rises by one person per 100,000. For bans of gatherings of fifty people, it’s every eleven days.

Because I controlled for how long it’s been since the first county death, this is probably not being driven by harder-hit places choosing to adopt tougher policies. But just to check, I also added a control for the deaths per 100,000 people in each county on March 31. This does reduce the size and significance of effects for each policy, but not the relationship between them. Nor are my findings changed by excluding the New York City metro area, or adding or removing a handful of other variables related to climate, industry or occupation mix, rurality, etc. All the underlying data can be downloaded publicly.

The only US-based academic study empirically linking lockdowns to lower deaths is a recent economics paper identifying California’s lockdown as the reason for its lower death rate. The problem with this paper is that the authors find that the lockdown began to reduce California’s deaths just five days after being implemented. The effect is too early to derive from the supposed cause. My goal is not to prove that stay-at-home orders increase COVID deaths; that’s a strong claim I wouldn’t venture. My goal is simply to show that there is not currently any evidence that lockdowns work. None of the actual examples of lockdowns around the world provides particularly compelling evidence that lockdowns actually work.

Lyman is an economist who specializes in population and demography. He is an Advisor at the consulting firm Demographic Intelligence, a Research Fellow at the Institute for Family Studies, and an Adjunct Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. He and his wife Ruth live in Tuen Mun, Hong Kong.
Click to expand...
 
TTOOLL

TTOOLL

Member
Pietanic said:
The UK updates here every afternoon just never give any positivity. Just continual bleakness. I miss my parents, not being able to visit them. And my daughter is asking where they are. FaceTime etc. Is not the same and she’s very confused. I know I sound like a bleeding hearts club and it’s a small sacrifice to make, but I am probably starting to struggle a bit with all this and am getting a bit of anxiety I’ll never see my parents again. Sounds like our lives are never going back to normal even though that may be hyperbolic. I have no faith in a vaccine coming anytime soon. Haven’t we never created a successful coronavirus vaccine?

Stay safe GAF
Click to expand...

Forget the press, they love tragedies and ratings. That's it for them, just business as usual. In a few months they will have moved to the next one.
 
autoduelist

autoduelist

Member
Djau said:
Thats why we're called essential workers.
Click to expand...

Nice internet virtue signal. Shameless, obvious, and ineffectual.

We will quickly learn we are all essential workers. The landscaper putting food on the table buys tools from the hardware store. He pays rent. The hardware store pays employees. They all use gasoline. Their pay supports farmers. It's all interconnected.

And sure, we have people we can label 'essential' in regards to any specific crisis. There are front line soldiers in every war. Supply lines. Medics. Sure.

But that doesn't mean everyone else is unimportant. This epidemic of elitism is pathetic. There is no reason a landscaper can't mow the lawn. There is no reason a nice little mom & pop store can't simply put your order in your trunk without getting out of the car.

I said it before: we had this outbreak in the super dense, urban island that is Manhattan. Before we even fully knew about it. Before we social distanced. People on packed subways. Nobody with immunity. Not enough supplies.

And we beat it. Everyone got a bed. We didn't run out of ventilators. We rose to the challenge.

Now? We know to social distance. New treatments are being researched. Production of equipment is in full gear. Our army corps of Engineers have mastered getting beds up quickly wherever needed. We are rolling out increased testing looking for new hotspots, none of which will likely ever reach NYC levels due to all the reasons that make NYC unique.

That doesn't mean nobody will get sick, or that nobody will die. Of course they will. With certainty. But that is true regardless.

If this disease had a 10% death rate, like some early reports from Italy suggested, we would all be hunkered down. But that is not the case, and was astronomically wrong. I have earlier posts in this thread where i even suggested bug in gear to buy to someone who asked, back when we were basing this off bunk numbers.

We know much more now. And maybe we shouldn't be shutting down our economy with war brewing in the South China sea. Maybe a disease that is twice as bad as the flu isn't worth famine or the possibility of WWIII. And maybe the panic porn of the mainstream media is just more bullshit propaganda like Smollet, Covington, and the rest. That isn't to say Corona isn't real - it is... but we don't hide in our beds just because something scary is outside, because I promise something scarier is behind it if we don't face it head on. And I certainly don't think some in our media have the health of this nation as a priority- in fact, it has become quite clear many hate this country by their own admission. Why would i trust their panic porn?

We know to social distance. We have been educated. That does not mean we are no longer free people.

You asked me who I am willing to sacrifice, but it's increasingly obvious the one willing to sacrifice others is you. I am not the one calling the hairdresser and single mother of 4 non-essential. I am not telling the solo landscaper he can not go to work. Or people they shouldn't go shopping. I put my faith in myself, and my family, and you and yours.... not petty tyrants who threaten to lock people up for not following their draconian rules.
 
autoduelist

autoduelist

Member
Leyasu said:
It’s not impossible, and could have been done like Wuhan in just over a couple of months.

Obviously we wouldn’t starve because a total quarantine is out of the question as some things would have to continue. and those people protected. But a mass quarantine with the bare minimum people quarantined going out for essentials is by far the most efficient way of dealing with it.

Those left infected at the end would be easily identified and treated/isolated. As much as I don’t want to blow China’s trumpet, they have already demonstratedhow to tame it. Yes they lied about lots of things, opening up now is a lot harder to hide

One other thing. You talk about not leaving the country. Bookmark this, because the borders are going to stay closed for a good while yet. No country is going to be taking risks once this has been contained. Travel between countries that does happen will be heavily monitored with mandatory quarantining for new arrivals. Until either a medicine has been found or a vaccine that works.
Click to expand...


Why point to Wuhan? We beat the peak in NYC in record time and none of our emergency hospitals collapsed, nobody was disappeared or welded into their homes, and we didn't spread it to the rest of the world.
 
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JimmyJones

JimmyJones

Banned
infinitys_7th said:
There is a growing body of evidence that we are off by anywhere from 10x to 100x on what the true total numbers of infections are, which means that the true death rate is 10 to 100x less than what we are seeing. It could be possible that the death rate of COVID-19 is barely higher or even slightly lower than the flu (0.1% or 1-in-1000)
Click to expand...

But one person’s granny died! How could you be so insensitive!?
 
C

cosmic wizard

Neo Member
Techies said:
Vitamin D deficiency (Diabetes/Obesity the main cause) is the number 1 factor causing the deaths/hospitalizations.
And we live in a lockdown world, where they are basically telling everyone to stay inside to become Vitamin D deficient.
Click to expand...

Downplay nutrition and vitamins
Discredit the cheap cures
Induce fear
Hype patented drugs and vaccines
Profit
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Gold Member
Doc Honk said:
Microsoft patent 060606. NPCs be like "Fuck you Mr. T. F. Hat! It's just a patent for a new mouse. Money made Bill Gates extra lovingly kind, money does that to people! Take the vaccine you selfish individual! Trust in Gates!"


"What is WIPO?

WIPO is the global forum for intellectual property (IP) services, policy, information and cooperation. We are a self-funding agency of the United Nations, with 193 member states.

Our mission is to lead the development of a balanced and effective international IP system that enables innovation and creativity for the benefit of all. Our mandate, governing bodies and procedures are set out in the WIPO Convention, which established WIPO in 1967."
Click to expand...

So Bill Gates really IS the Antichrist.
 
12Goblins

12Goblins

Lil’ Gobbie
chilling Vice piece about the lawyer and activist who disappeared in February after providing first hand coverage of the outbreak in Wuhan and criticizing the government's response. The Chinese government claims he has been detained for quarantine purposes, but many are skeptical as he has not been granted any outside contact. Terrible stuff. people love to throw around words like being a reporter, hero, patriot, etc but forget what those things mean. Hope you are still alive Qiushi, and thank you for spreading the truth :messenger_pensive:


 
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D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
autoduelist said:
Nice internet virtue signal. Shameless, obvious, and ineffectual.

We will quickly learn we are all essential workers. The landscaper putting food on the table buys tools from the hardware store. He pays rent. The hardware store pays employees. They all use gasoline. Their pay supports farmers. It's all interconnected.

And sure, we have people we can label 'essential' in regards to any specific crisis. There are front line soldiers in every war. Supply lines. Medics. Sure.

But that doesn't mean everyone else is unimportant. This epidemic of elitism is pathetic. There is no reason a landscaper can't mow the lawn. There is no reason a nice little mom & pop store can't simply put your order in your trunk without getting out of the car.

I said it before: we had this outbreak in the super dense, urban island that is Manhattan. Before we even fully knew about it. Before we social distanced. People on packed subways. Nobody with immunity. Not enough supplies.

And we beat it. Everyone got a bed. We didn't run out of ventilators. We rose to the challenge.

Now? We know to social distance. New treatments are being researched. Production of equipment is in full gear. Our army corps of Engineers have mastered getting beds up quickly wherever needed. We are rolling out increased testing looking for new hotspots, none of which will likely ever reach NYC levels due to all the reasons that make NYC unique.

That doesn't mean nobody will get sick, or that nobody will die. Of course they will. With certainty. But that is true regardless.

If this disease had a 10% death rate, like some early reports from Italy suggested, we would all be hunkered down. But that is not the case, and was astronomically wrong. I have earlier posts in this thread where i even suggested bug in gear to buy to someone who asked, back when we were basing this off bunk numbers.

We know much more now. And maybe we shouldn't be shutting down our economy with war brewing in the South China sea. Maybe a disease that is twice as bad as the flu isn't worth famine or the possibility of WWIII. And maybe the panic porn of the mainstream media is just more bullshit propaganda like Smollet, Covington, and the rest. That isn't to say Corona isn't real - it is... but we don't hide in our beds just because something scary is outside, because I promise something scarier is behind it if we don't face it head on. And I certainly don't think some in our media have the health of this nation as a priority- in fact, it has become quite clear many hate this country by their own admission. Why would i trust their panic porn?

We know to social distance. We have been educated. That does not mean we are no longer free people.

You asked me who I am willing to sacrifice, but it's increasingly obvious the one willing to sacrifice others is you. I am not the one calling the hairdresser and single mother of 4 non-essential. I am not telling the solo landscaper he can not go to work. Or people they shouldn't go shopping. I put my faith in myself, and my family, and you and yours.... not petty tyrants who threaten to lock people up for not following their draconian rules.
Click to expand...

I need an applause emote for this. Well said.
 
Longcat

Longcat

Member
12Goblins said:
chilling Vice piece about the lawyer and activist who disappeared in February after providing first hand coverage of the outbreak in Wuhan and criticizing the government's response. The Chinese government claims he has been detained for quarantine purposes, but many are skeptical as he has not been granted any outside contact. Terrible stuff. people love to throw around words like being a reporter, hero, patriot, etc but forget what those things mean. Hope you are still alive Qiushi, and thank you for spreading the truth :messenger_pensive:


Click to expand...

Did the CCP disappear this video as well? I just get "video unavailable". Does it still play for anyone else?
 
Come On Tars

Come On Tars

Member
autoduelist said:
Nice internet virtue signal. Shameless, obvious, and ineffectual.

We will quickly learn we are all essential workers. The landscaper putting food on the table buys tools from the hardware store. He pays rent. The hardware store pays employees. They all use gasoline. Their pay supports farmers. It's all interconnected.

And sure, we have people we can label 'essential' in regards to any specific crisis. There are front line soldiers in every war. Supply lines. Medics. Sure.

But that doesn't mean everyone else is unimportant. This epidemic of elitism is pathetic. There is no reason a landscaper can't mow the lawn. There is no reason a nice little mom & pop store can't simply put your order in your trunk without getting out of the car.

I said it before: we had this outbreak in the super dense, urban island that is Manhattan. Before we even fully knew about it. Before we social distanced. People on packed subways. Nobody with immunity. Not enough supplies.

And we beat it. Everyone got a bed. We didn't run out of ventilators. We rose to the challenge.

Now? We know to social distance. New treatments are being researched. Production of equipment is in full gear. Our army corps of Engineers have mastered getting beds up quickly wherever needed. We are rolling out increased testing looking for new hotspots, none of which will likely ever reach NYC levels due to all the reasons that make NYC unique.

That doesn't mean nobody will get sick, or that nobody will die. Of course they will. With certainty. But that is true regardless.

If this disease had a 10% death rate, like some early reports from Italy suggested, we would all be hunkered down. But that is not the case, and was astronomically wrong. I have earlier posts in this thread where i even suggested bug in gear to buy to someone who asked, back when we were basing this off bunk numbers.

We know much more now. And maybe we shouldn't be shutting down our economy with war brewing in the South China sea. Maybe a disease that is twice as bad as the flu isn't worth famine or the possibility of WWIII. And maybe the panic porn of the mainstream media is just more bullshit propaganda like Smollet, Covington, and the rest. That isn't to say Corona isn't real - it is... but we don't hide in our beds just because something scary is outside, because I promise something scarier is behind it if we don't face it head on. And I certainly don't think some in our media have the health of this nation as a priority- in fact, it has become quite clear many hate this country by their own admission. Why would i trust their panic porn?

We know to social distance. We have been educated. That does not mean we are no longer free people.

You asked me who I am willing to sacrifice, but it's increasingly obvious the one willing to sacrifice others is you. I am not the one calling the hairdresser and single mother of 4 non-essential. I am not telling the solo landscaper he can not go to work. Or people they shouldn't go shopping. I put my faith in myself, and my family, and you and yours.... not petty tyrants who threaten to lock people up for not following their draconian rules.
Click to expand...
Damn
 
Last edited:
Alx

Alx

Member
llien said:
No idea, but UK is normally reporting only hospital deaths, and so are Italy/Spain I was told.
Click to expand...

For the record, France has been giving separate counts for hospitals and nursing homes recently, and the ratio is currently 13 236 deaths in hospitals and 8 104 in nursing homes (assuming they've caught up and the nursing homes count now covers all of them)
 
llien

llien

Member
A bit long, but quite interesting article:
quillette.com

COVID-19 Superspreader Events in 28 Countries: Critical Patterns and Lessons

In the absence of any comprehensive database of COVID-19 superspreading events, I built my own.
quillette.com quillette.com

Alx said:
For the record, France has been giving separate counts for hospitals and nursing homes recently, and the ratio is currently 13 236 deaths in hospitals and 8 104 in nursing homes (assuming they've caught up and the nursing homes count now covers all of them)
Click to expand...

Thanks. That makes 38% of C19 deaths be old age homes (for France).
 
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DragoonKain

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
When states like Georgia open shit back up again, if they have a setback with infection rates, it'll making governors of the other states ultra paranoid about opening things back up again, pushing things back even further than their original plans for reopening everything.

No state will want to be "the next one" that opened things back up too soon.
 
Chittagong

Chittagong

Gold Member
Leyasu

Leyasu

Banned
autoduelist said:
Why point to Wuhan? We beat the peak in NYC in record time and none of our emergency hospitals collapsed, nobody was disappeared or welded into their homes, and we didn't spread it to the rest of the world.
Click to expand...
I pointed to Wuhan as an example of eradication as opposed to mitigation.

It is now three months exactly since the Wuhan lockdown. They are reporting zero new daily infections. Although I don't believe most of what China claims, you can't hide things like cities/provinces/countries coming back to life. Plus there are more than a few journalists on the ground writing articles.

Do you think that NYC will be reporting zero new infections in exactly three months after their lockdown orders were issued? I really hope so. We are coming out of our lockdown in France in just over two weeks. These clowns over here are lost. They are talking about having to get used to living with the virus and are thinking about stop and go lockdown strategies once the hospitals are full again. Instead of using the two months to implement something strict with the goal of coming back to life with almost no new cases and those left easily managed, they are going to throw it all away I feel.

People disappearing has no relevance here. A vile regime will continue to be a vile regime.
 
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betrayal

betrayal

Banned
The crisis will soon be over in some European countries and then it will only be a matter of preventing new spread through contact tracing, distance rules and masks. All other countries will follow worldwide. Some Asian countries, which were once at a similar level of COVID-19 as Western countries, now only report low double-digit or even single-digit numbers of new infections.

Here in Germany, there are now daily significantly higher numbers of recoveries than new cases and more and more cities have not reported a single new infection for many days. Of approx. 150,000 cases, over 100,000 have already recovered.

If you look at the global statistics, 99% of the countries go the way of Germany or other countries with a comparable progress. I also don't think that a second outbreak in autumn or winter could be worse, as people will now be sensitized and even the simplest measures can already be very effective. It is also important to bear in mind that the success achieved so far has been accomplished without any medication or vaccine. The focus should now slowly but surely be on how to get the economy back on track.
 
ricardo_sousa11

ricardo_sousa11

Member
autoduelist said:
Nice internet virtue signal. Shameless, obvious, and ineffectual.

We will quickly learn we are all essential workers. The landscaper putting food on the table buys tools from the hardware store. He pays rent. The hardware store pays employees. They all use gasoline. Their pay supports farmers. It's all interconnected.

And sure, we have people we can label 'essential' in regards to any specific crisis. There are front line soldiers in every war. Supply lines. Medics. Sure.

But that doesn't mean everyone else is unimportant. This epidemic of elitism is pathetic. There is no reason a landscaper can't mow the lawn. There is no reason a nice little mom & pop store can't simply put your order in your trunk without getting out of the car.

I said it before: we had this outbreak in the super dense, urban island that is Manhattan. Before we even fully knew about it. Before we social distanced. People on packed subways. Nobody with immunity. Not enough supplies.

And we beat it. Everyone got a bed. We didn't run out of ventilators. We rose to the challenge.

Now? We know to social distance. New treatments are being researched. Production of equipment is in full gear. Our army corps of Engineers have mastered getting beds up quickly wherever needed. We are rolling out increased testing looking for new hotspots, none of which will likely ever reach NYC levels due to all the reasons that make NYC unique.

That doesn't mean nobody will get sick, or that nobody will die. Of course they will. With certainty. But that is true regardless.

If this disease had a 10% death rate, like some early reports from Italy suggested, we would all be hunkered down. But that is not the case, and was astronomically wrong. I have earlier posts in this thread where i even suggested bug in gear to buy to someone who asked, back when we were basing this off bunk numbers.

We know much more now. And maybe we shouldn't be shutting down our economy with war brewing in the South China sea. Maybe a disease that is twice as bad as the flu isn't worth famine or the possibility of WWIII. And maybe the panic porn of the mainstream media is just more bullshit propaganda like Smollet, Covington, and the rest. That isn't to say Corona isn't real - it is... but we don't hide in our beds just because something scary is outside, because I promise something scarier is behind it if we don't face it head on. And I certainly don't think some in our media have the health of this nation as a priority- in fact, it has become quite clear many hate this country by their own admission. Why would i trust their panic porn?

We know to social distance. We have been educated. That does not mean we are no longer free people.

You asked me who I am willing to sacrifice, but it's increasingly obvious the one willing to sacrifice others is you. I am not the one calling the hairdresser and single mother of 4 non-essential. I am not telling the solo landscaper he can not go to work. Or people they shouldn't go shopping. I put my faith in myself, and my family, and you and yours.... not petty tyrants who threaten to lock people up for not following their draconian rules.
Click to expand...


I feel like this could have been written for a president, congrats!

Although as optimistic and realistic what you've just said, I dont think it applies everywhere, let alone the USA. You're implying NY has had its peak, which it has not. It is still the most affected state, and they did the hardest lockdown, yet on the past 24hrs it has had another 5,713 infected and 661 dead, which is about the average for that particular state.

Also, You have learned social distancing and how to take certain precautions, but look at the comments and videos posted here and you'll quickly learn that the rest of the country has learned nothing, the rallies to open up the lockdowns are riddled with people close together and no masks.

Every job is "essencial" for sure, and I do agree we need to start looking at life with distancing and masks and open up the countries, but I dont think all countries are ready for it, and the US is without a doubt the country that is less prepared for this. I saw a poll on some news channel that asked people wether the virus was real or fake, and 40% said it was fake, this type of misinformation is nowhere to be seen anywhere else in the world, those protests are unique to the States as well.

There wont be a WWIII, this is it, and China has already won.

I think I might sound very negative, most of my comments are, I try not to be, and maybe the picture im seeing isnt the true reality, where I live things are going pretty good, there is no deaths, little infected. But I care a lot for my friends abroad, I used to travel quite a bit, and its quite rare that they have good information about this, its always something negative, and it doesnt depend on you alone, but everyone you encounter.
 
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