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[Faenrir]

Hi gaffers!
This time i want to discuss indie games pricing.
What price ranges do you feel are appropriate for indie games?
Would you buy an indie game at 25, 20, 15, 10 or lower?
Do you only buy them with discounts? And how do you feel about launch discounts?

Of course not all indie games have the same scope but i' mainly talking about good games with good art and decent effort and polish.

 

[Rattlehead121]

Digital - $10. Tops.

Physical - $35+.

 

[Esca]

$20 is usually my limit unless it really gets my attention

 

[Faenrir]

Digital - $10. Tops.

Physical - $35+.

Why though? That's a pretty big difference for a plastic box with a steam key inside...
Nah i'm guessing you mean for consoles ?
Should have specified pc in the op but still interesting anyway ^^

 

[Bonfires Down]

- Add a link to your game.
- Add a poll asking how much we would pay for it.

Since your game is a shmup it's a niche genre to begin with. Maybe it's good to price it low and hope for more sales, or maybe it's better to price a bit higher since only fans of the genre will buy it anyway. I really don't know. Having seen your game I'd say $10 is the right price, but personally I'm not interested no matter what.

 

[Vawn]

Why does it matter if a game is indie or not? I judge a game by how much I want to play it vs how much it costs. I don't care who made the game.

 

[Night.Ninja]

Up to 25 Depending on how good is the game is

 

[Faenrir]

Why does it matter if a game is indie or not? I judge a game by how much I want to play it vs how much it costs. I don't care who made the game.

Because a game that cost 500M to make won't be sold at 5 bucks but a game made by 1 or 2 people in a few years needs way less money to be succesful.

- Add a link to your game.
- Add a poll asking how much we would pay for it.

Since your game is a shmup it's a niche genre to begin with. Maybe it's good to price it low and hope for more sales, or maybe it's better to price a bit higher since only fans of the genre will buy it anyway. I really don't know. Having seen your game I'd say $10 is the right price, but personally I'm not interested no matter what.

Ah yeah i plan on doing that too but i'm also interested in a more general feel.
My game isn't really only targetted at shmup fans though, it's also (and even more) for people that like the hack'n'slash and customization aspects. Ofc you need to enjoy regular gameplay but i plan on putting a demo on steam so people can try it anyway

 

[Goro Majima]

$20 is usually my limit unless it really gets my attention

That's basically my limit as well.

Also for small releases like that Castlevania Symphony of the Night and Dracula X compilation they put out on PS4.

 

[Tenaciousmo]

how do you define indie? whats the length, quality, tpe of game ?

Divinity OS II is indie and i wouldve paid full price for it.

 

[Faenrir]

No Divinity OS II is not indie for me. It's a studio that had released 6 other games in that series before.
They got 2M on kickstarter and probably had investors and funds from their previois game (which had a total budget of 4M...it's safe to assume the sequel was at least 5 to 10M). It's AA.
But AA better than most AAA and totally deserving the praise. I agree with you, it could have been priced higher.

Indie, to me, means smaller studios, not AAA or even AA, it's nit about not having a publisher either (well that's what i mean by indie here at least ^^).

 

[Vawn]

No Divinity OS II is not indie for me.

That's the point. It IS an indie by the definition of the word. Indies come in all shapes and sizes, just like companies like Ubisoft can make Assassin's Creed Odyssey and Child of Light.

 

[Faenrir]

That's the point. It IS an indie by the definition of the word. Indies come in all shapes and sizes, just like companies like Ubisoft can make Assassin's Creed Odyssey and Child of Light.

This sterile "debate" does not interest me. I gave my definition which is what's important for the conversation here. If you feel like you disagree, please don't participate, i don't want to waste my time nitpicking over terms. Thanks.

 

[Vawn]

This sterile "debate" does not interest me. I gave my definition which is what's important for the conversation here. If you feel like you disagree, please don't participate, i don't want to waste my time nitpicking over terms. Thanks.

And I gave my answer - it doesn't matter if a game is an indie (the real definition or your made-up one) or not. A game's worth is how much I want to play it, not what a game costs to make.

There are AA games, I've paid well over $60 for because I wanted to play them and they are limited in supply. The same logic would be true if a game, such as Hollow Knight would have been full price. I'd much rather buy something like that over something like Borderlands 3, etc.

 

[Faenrir]

Ok then you've made your point. Thanks.

 

[Tenaciousmo]

This sterile "debate" does not interest me. I gave my definition which is what's important for the conversation here. If you feel like you disagree, please don't participate, i don't want to waste my time nitpicking over terms. Thanks.

would indivisble be indie by your descriptor then ? cause i still wouldn't have minded paying 50$ for that

EDIT: bare in mind i live in canadaland where 35$ is 45-50 canadian sheckles

 

[Faenrir]

3.5M budget, i'd put that in AA as well.

I'm talking about smaller games here, like 250/500k budgets.

 

[Tenaciousmo]

3.5M budget, i'd put that in AA as well.

I'm talking about smaller games here, like 250/500k budgets.

again, depending on the game, i could go up to 30-40$ if it seems worth it. recently bought risk of rain 2 for 25$ for exemple

 

[bender]

It really depends on the game. Most recently, I hesitated on Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon 2. I loved the original and would have snapped it up at $10.00. The launch price of $15.00 had me add it to my wish list for a future sale. Anything higher than $20 is probably going to get the same treatment though there are exceptions. No idea what Spelunky 2 will cost, but I'd pay $60 for it without hesitation.

 

[Virex]

how do you define indie? whats the length, quality, tpe of game ?

Divinity OS II is indie and i wouldve paid full price for it.

Larian are not "indie"

 

[GymWolf]

25-30 or more if the game is very interesting.

A lot of indie games offers more hours to play than some AAA games.

 

[Pejo]

It's more the type of game it is for me than if it's indie or not. If it's low effort pixel graphics, I won't pay more than 10 unless it's a genre I really love. If it's high effort pixel, or unique art style with good production values in a genre I like, I'll go 20/25. The only "indie" games I've paid more than that for are like the Ori games, if they can be considered indie, and like Bloodstained, stuff with pedigree behind it.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Hollow Knight coming out at $15 and offering more content and replayability than 95% of any $20+ indie, not to mention more than many $60 AAA games, made this question much more difficult to answer.

These days I rarely see a good reason to spend more than €15 on an indie game. More than €20 is virtually out of the question unless it’s a highly anticipated game from a developer that I trust inconditionately... of which there are virtually none.

Also, being a GamePass subscriber, it’s quite hard for me to be that desperate to play a new game that I can’t wait for a sale

 

[Klart]

I was very happy spending 25 Euro on Streets of Rage 4.

 

[hariseldon]

Tbh on PC, Steam sales and Humble Bundles have driven down the expected price for Indie games - you know they'll be in a bundle eventually or a 90% steam sale so while a few early adopters will pay full price most people will wait for a sale and get it for <£10. I do however have some discomfort with that model, a race to the bottom is never healthy in the end, and will inevitably see indies embrace questionable practices like adware and microtransactions in due course (with Steam et al providing APIs to enable that).

That said, it's been a while since an indie game has been worth buying. The last one I bought I think would be Parkitect, which I got for my wife as I had already picked it up in early access. Probably Horizon Chase Turbo after that. Too much indie is focused on the kind of games RPS, Polygon and Kotaku would find enjoyable sadly, or at least those are the things that get enough publicity to be noticed.

BTW does SOR4 count? It's a Sega IP, so I'd say it's not indie.

EDIT: To address the OP - so you want to figure out what to price your shmup at. First up, you say there's customisation etc, but ultimately people will see shooter. If they're into shooters they'll take a closer look, if they're not they'll move on before you can even explain it's got all this other stuff. Some people might like the art style and hang on for that. So, your market is shooters and people who like the visuals. Your next objective is to figure out what competing games are selling for. Are you serving a niche with very few good games? You might be able to justify a high price. You might NEED a high price. Yes your costs aren't 500m but neither are your sales. If a finite number of people are likely to want to buy your game then you have to get the most money from each that you can. If those people are starved for good content, they'll pay. War game enthusiasts for instance pay good money to a number of smaller studios serving their niche. You have to consider - will charging £1.99 bring in enough trade from people who would otherwise ignore your game to cover the difference in price? In reality it probably won't. Will users who pay £1.99 put the time and effort into learning your game's systems and then tell their mates about it? Probably not. If you spend £40 on a game it's not a throwaway purchase so you'll spend a bit more time trying to figure the game out.

Good luck.

 

[Winter John]

Depends on the game but 20 - 30 is fair for the best ones. Dead Cells, Hollow Knight, Bloodstained and Streets Of Rage are more entertaining than TLOU and that FF 7 remake. Hell, they're probably better than every AAA game that's come out over the last few years.

 

[turtlepowa]

Depends on the game. For something like Carrion 15 bucks, for something like Forager 10 bucks and for something like Subnautica easily 40 bucks.

 

[tillbot8]

A lot of variables to consider, I got brick breaker for the PS4 (don't get it) on sale for 2.99, it was 2.98 too expensive...piece of crap, but others I have got 20 bucks of entertainment for 5-10, so very hard to tell. Always research first (YouTube vids are great) and decide for yourself what value you get and it if matches up with the price tag!

 

[namekuseijin]

pseudo 8-bit Megaman clones with no enemies should be a penny, Castlevania clones a dollar, Mario 64 clones a good 2 bucks, Zelda BotW clones with no enemies in sight perhaps 3 bucks...

original good indies with actual challenge easily in the 10-40 range, depending on production polish

 

[CitizenX]

Depends on the game but in most cases i think $15 is the sweet spot.

 

[Faenrir]

EDIT: To address the OP - so you want to figure out what to price your shmup at. First up, you say there's customisation etc, but ultimately people will see shooter. If they're into shooters they'll take a closer look, if they're not they'll move on before you can even explain it's got all this other stuff. Some people might like the art style and hang on for that. So, your market is shooters and people who like the visuals. Your next objective is to figure out what competing games are selling for. Are you serving a niche with very few good games? You might be able to justify a high price. You might NEED a high price. Yes your costs aren't 500m but neither are your sales. If a finite number of people are likely to want to buy your game then you have to get the most money from each that you can. If those people are starved for good content, they'll pay. War game enthusiasts for instance pay good money to a number of smaller studios serving their niche. You have to consider - will charging £1.99 bring in enough trade from people who would otherwise ignore your game to cover the difference in price? In reality it probably won't. Will users who pay £1.99 put the time and effort into learning your game's systems and then tell their mates about it? Probably not. If you spend £40 on a game it's not a throwaway purchase so you'll spend a bit more time trying to figure the game out.

Good luck.

Well i know for a fact the game reaches a broader audience because people who don't usually play shmups played and enjoyed the alpha demo. It does have to do with the visuals a bit as the style is reminiscent of the amiga era but also the way the game combines rpg and more "old school" style of shooters.
For instance, fans of old euroshooters like Xenon 2, Tyrian, Raptor, etc. seemed very interested.

I agree that the current trends on sales are unhealthy. My goal is to not reduce the price of the game too fast and i'm wondering about a price of either 10 or 12.5 for starter with or without a launch discount (i've seen some shmups at that price recently).

I know lower prices can actually be bad. If the dev doesn't think the game is worth much, why would you believe it's any good?

Thanks everyone for your inputs!
I'm glad most of you actually like indie games and recognize the huge array of quality between them.

I feel like the norm is usually up to 25~ max for indie titles (unless they're bigger titles like AA or it's a sequel of a beloved game), depending on quality and polish.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

15$. And dont whore your game out with consistently lower sales.

 

[Faenrir]

15$. And dont whore your game out with consistently lower sales.

Yes i feel like that's crucial. I've read a lot on the subject and came to the conclusion that price should only drop gradually and not be reduced at every opportunity.
I know people check the lowest prices a game's ever been at so once you've gotten down, there's no going up again.

 

[hariseldon]

Well i know for a fact the game reaches a broader audience because people who don't usually play shmups played and enjoyed the alpha demo. It does have to do with the visuals a bit as the style is reminiscent of the amiga era but also the way the game combines rpg and more "old school" style of shooters.
For instance, fans of old euroshooters like Xenon 2, Tyrian, Raptor, etc. seemed very interested.

I agree that the current trends on sales are unhealthy. My goal is to not reduce the price of the game too fast and i'm wondering about a price of either 10 or 12.5 for starter with or without a launch discount (i've seen some shmups at that price recently).

I know lower prices can actually be bad. If the dev doesn't think the game is worth much, why would you believe it's any good?

Thanks everyone for your inputs!
I'm glad most of you actually like indie games and recognize the huge array of quality between them.

I feel like the norm is usually up to 25~ max for indie titles (unless they're bigger titles like AA or it's a sequel of a beloved game), depending on quality and polish.

Something I briefly touched upon in my post but forgot to expand on is the value of building community. £1.99 games just won't do that. The user will try the game, might bounce off it or might enjoy it, but fundamentally it's an impulse-buy, so if something isn't right (for them) they can just drop it. Charge more and you're more likely to get feedback, and the opportunity to build a relationship with that user. That relationship can translate into a customer who will regularly buy your game for a higher price because they know what they're getting. It doesn't mean always giving them what they say they want of course, the artist's vision is prime, but the point is that such contact is valuable. A small number of engaged users who pay more may make you less money on this release than a bunch of people buying your game for £1.99 and not giving a shit, but it doesn't create long-term customers unless your game is absolutely amazing and blows everyone away. If it's that good a few would buy it and word of mouth would do the rest, so even then you're shitting on yourself.

It is of course ridiculous that the price can have such impact but humans are strange creatures. Btw paging DunDunDunpachi who loves a shooter - he may have something to say about the market for shmups.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I'll usually wait for sales, but if the game does it for me I make a judgement call.

Then there are a few purchase crusades I've participated in. Take Undertale for example, I bought that game on Steam, PS4, and Switch just to support Toby Fox. I also financially guaranteed another 5 purchases amongst my friends, where I tell them to buy it, and that when they beat it if they look me in the eye and tell me they didn't like it I'll reimburse them.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

Yes i feel like that's crucial. I've read a lot on the subject and came to the conclusion that price should only drop gradually and not be reduced at every opportunity.
I know people check the lowest prices a game's ever been at so once you've gotten down, there's no going up again.

Yup once i see its been a certain price i refuse to buy it until it hits that price again, so careful with like one off christmas/new yr sales


also the trajectory its dropping tells me if i should hold out for it to go lower or its likely to not move for awhile.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I do like a shooter but I don't buy them very often anymore. I have a full plate of 'em right now and I want to beat the ones I have. My semi-informed opinion would be that you should be realistic and baes your price on the mobile market, which is where the majority of shmups are coming out right now. Those are going for a few bucks each, and if you can't match the production value / gameplay of a $3 mobile title, then you shouldn't charge more than that.

 

[hariseldon]

I do like a shooter but I don't buy them very often anymore. I have a full plate of 'em right now and I want to beat the ones I have.

That is actually one of the big problems developers have right now. You're not just competing with the new games coming out, your new game must be better than the games already in people's backlogs. It's got to be good enough to divert their attention from classics of their genre in some cases. Gamers now are limited more by time than by cash because of how cheap gaming has become.

 

[iorek21]

Hollow Knight has enough content to justify even a 60 dollar purchase.

It depends on the game, really.

 

[hariseldon]

Hollow Knight has enough content to justify even a 60 dollar purchase.

It depends on the game, really.

I might agree with you if you said Shovel Knight.

 

[Graciaus]

$20 or less is impulse buy range on day one. It would have to be a sequel or from an established team to get me to consider more on day one.

 

[Saruhashi]

Hi gaffers!
This time i want to discuss indie games pricing.
What price ranges do you feel are appropriate for indie games?
Would you buy an indie game at 25, 20, 15, 10 or lower?
Do you only buy them with discounts? And how do you feel about launch discounts?

Of course not all indie games have the same scope but i' mainly talking about good games with good art and decent effort and polish.

Good games with good art and decent effort and polish?
Honestly I'd be willing to go as high as 30 bucks.

Depends on the game really.
Hollow Knight, Dead Cells, Darkest Dungeon, for example, are top top level indie games, for me.
I mean better than what's on offer in AAA to be honest.

Smaller games with maybe smaller play times I would be fine paying 20 bucks so long as there is a lot of polish.

I think some people value indie games at such a low level. It's kind of dissapointing.
The first reply to you is "$10 tops".
That's a shame because there are indie games that are definitely worth more in terms of value offered to the player.

I'd be looking at some combo of playtime, soundtrack, art style and presentation, polish, genre and the size of the development team.
From a devs point of view there's nothing wrong with expecting to be paid.
Just finding that sweet spot could be difficult.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

That is actually one of the big problems developers have right now. You're not just competing with the new games coming out, your new game must be better than the games already in people's backlogs. It's got to be good enough to divert their attention from classics of their genre in some cases. Gamers now are limited more by time than by cash because of how cheap gaming has become.

Fully agree. I'll take it a bit further and say this is not a big problem for developers right now but has been a problem since the 90s.

How can you compete in a genre where the fans are still replaying and enjoying games from 30 years ago? Shmups got "too good" in the sense that they nailed the core gameplay loop pretty early on and just iterated and iterated until you get gems like Espgaluda and Gradius V and Psyvariar 2. That is why they mostly died out. It isn't that "no good shmups are coming out". The problem is all the shmup fans are content to play old retro stuff. I wrote a thing about it almost 2 years ago.

EDIT: to emphasize further, I'd like to point out that one of the most talked about (if not THE most talked about) shmup for "new people to get into the genre" is 19 years old.

 

[V2Tommy]

Digital - $10. Tops.

Physical - $35+.

You're willing to pay 350% more for a physical title? Is that right?

Three hundred and fifty percent.

 

[hariseldon]

You're willing to pay 350% more for a physical title? Is that right?

Three hundred and fifty percent.

Generally I favour physical - I'll pay a bit more, probably not that much but I would pay more, though often (certainly on the Switch) physical is cheaper.

 

[Kenpachii]

Depends.

30 bucks is my limit mostly for indie games. Unless the indie game is absolutely incredible but that never happens.

 

[hariseldon]

Fully agree. I'll take it a bit further and say this is not a big problem for developers right now but has been a problem since the 90s.

How can you compete in a genre where the fans are still replaying and enjoying games from 30 years ago? Shmups got "too good" in the sense that they nailed the core gameplay loop pretty early on and just iterated and iterated until you get gems like Espgaluda and Gradius V and Psyvariar 2. That is why they mostly died out. It isn't that "no good shmups are coming out". The problem is all the shmup fans are content to play old retro stuff. I wrote a thing about it almost 2 years ago.

This got me thinking a little bit about, of all things, the ST emulation community. I know, it's an odd one, bear with me. For years the best we had was things like Tik's Atari cave which might have a few disk images, and a few other little sites run by enthusiasts. The community thrived as we were all trying to find all these hidden gems. Eventually we had a pretty full selection, with all of the releases from greats like Pompey Pirates, Automation, Dbug, etc, plus all the magazines and cover disks, and so on. And then the community just seemed to slowly die. The search was over. We'd found everything we needed (and now you can get everything on archive.org) and there was no more room to ask where to find a game, to swap resources, no room for discovery because we'd perfected our hobby - there was nothing left. Sites fell into disrepair destroying what was left. I wonder if there's an element of that - the reaching of perfection eventually destroying the community, or perhaps I'm stretching a point too far.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

I have some meltal block about paying over 20$ for an indie title... But I will not take a chance on a random game for more than around 5$ ... The indies have raised in price so much over the course of the generation, u have to be more careful with your purchases.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

This got me thinking a little bit about, of all things, the ST emulation community. I know, it's an odd one, bear with me. For years the best we had was things like Tik's Atari cave which might have a few disk images, and a few other little sites run by enthusiasts. The community thrived as we were all trying to find all these hidden gems. Eventually we had a pretty full selection, with all of the releases from greats like Pompey Pirates, Automation, Dbug, etc, plus all the magazines and cover disks, and so on. And then the community just seemed to slowly die. The search was over. We'd found everything we needed (and now you can get everything on archive.org) and there was no more room to ask where to find a game, to swap resources, no room for discovery because we'd perfected our hobby - there was nothing left. Sites fell into disrepair destroying what was left. I wonder if there's an element of that - the reaching of perfection eventually destroying the community, or perhaps I'm stretching a point too far.

I definitely think you're on to something. I don't have an answer, but I understand what you're getting at. If the fun part was pursuing the full collection, once that is achieved what do you do next? This happens to retro collectors all the time. They have the entire Wii collection, but how many of those games do they play? Instead of seeing them on the shelf, what if that shelf had books that you would read, boardgames that you would play, potted plants to freshen air, artistic knick-knacks that you made, etc.?

A gamer and a gaming community can come together to obtain something or to attain something. I want to attain, even though I am an amateur and starting at the bottom. I am mostly done with the obtain part of the gaming hobby.

 

[hariseldon]

They have the entire Wii collection, but how many of those games do they play?

Anyone who has games but chooses to leave them shrinkwrapped, unplayed, should be shot. Games exist to be played. I have similar feelings about racing cars left in museums instead of racing. An object (especially one like a game, a console or a car, which objectively is a piece of art with a soul of its own) has a purpose and to not use it for that purpose negates its very existence.

PS apologies for thread derail