Support NeoGAF

[Holammer]

Jesus Christ, you chucklenuts actually made me defend Sony. We have one of the worst ongoing chip shortages in history during a pandemic which clearly forced Sony to adjust its strategy.
What's so difficult to understand? Even the automotive industry is gridlocked because of it. They can't release exclusives for a system they can't supply the demand for and the shortages will continue till 2022-23. It is a realpolitik decision to hang to the PS4 till the situation changes.

What the fuck is wrong with you people.

 

[Banjo64]

I'm done

Lmao love the change of profile pic

 

[SlimySnake]

Its not just about graphics.

It's about game design. It's about mechanics, systems and level design. Your cross-gen PS5 version can have as many polygons as it wants for its characters, and as many crazy-real animations as it can, but at the end of the day, the mechanics and the level design of the game will have to be made to run on a machine that has a shit 5400RPM HDD.

The games will still be good. But they won't hit the POTENTIAL that they would have had they been designed for the PS5 only.




This was the promise. Its complete bullshit. Cross gen everything, why the fuck did they even bother with a PS5 if youre gonna keep releasing heavy hitters on PS5?

THIS. So much this.

Mark Cerny wasted like half an hour of our lives droning on and on about the miracle that is that I/O and SSD, and their best studios are stuck making games on a 1.84 tflops PS4 with 20 MBps read speeds a a 1.6 ghz netbook cpu. embarrassing.

 

[KAL2006]

I don't think they started as cross gen. I think the chip shortage made Sony change their plans. No idea how they will get GT7's lighting engine to work on PS4. It probably also explains the delay.

Chip shortage?

Hasn't PS5 sold more systems than PS4 in the same timeframe. That means there are more PS5s out there than PS4s I the same space of time. Also they can always delay their games if they are worried about userbase.

 

[Neff]

TLoU2 in 60fps is probably the best-looking game out there so this ain't a thing

 

[Puskas]

Playing GT7 on a base PS4 in 2022 :

 

[SlimySnake]

We have one of the worst ongoing chip shortages in history during a pandemic which clearly forced Sony to adjust its strategy.

PS5 is outselling the PS4 which was the fastest selling console of all time.

This pandemic excuse is bullshit.

 

[InDaGulag]

Hehehehe...

 

[Mr Moose]

Name a single game that looks better than the Forbidden West gameplay. There are none.

Ratchet & Clank.

 

[MonarchJT]

so game delayed...next gow and next gran turimo and next horizon are all crossgen plus it seems highly plausible (from your words) that all games will also be released on PC. This seen the karma hitting the classic ps fanboys

 

[kyussman]

Sounds like they have a lot of stuff going on and single player/new IP still a big priority.....gonna be another great gen for PlayStation I think....not bothered personally about the cross gen drama...the games will be great regardless I'm sure.

 

[skit_data]

Another thing I came to think of:

God of War 2 (PS2) and Gran Turismo 6 (PS3) were released after PS3 and PS4 were released respectively. I think that was way shittier tbh. The fact that I had to boot up my dusty old brink-of-death-PS3 to play the latest main entry in one of my favourite franchises was way more of a travesty than being able to boot up a dedicated, graphically enhanced PS5 version of GT7.

Colin Moriarty said this has never happened before, but my interpretation is that has indeed happened before but in a way, way worse way IMO.

 

[GuinGuin]

Ratchet & Clank.

It looks equally good. The character and enemy designs in Forbidden West are more detailed though.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

I certainly care that Sony weren’t properly up front about so many major games being cross gen.

They’ve been totally shown up by Xbox, who at least have been honest about cross gen from day one.

I seriously wouldn’t have bothered buying a Ps5 yet if I’d known so few games would actually be made exclusively for it in its first two years.

Seriously? They were never going to abandon a 100M userbase for one that can only sniff a third of that by next Spring. This feels like a case of short memories and misplaced expectations. They never said they were not doing cross-gen. That was inferred by people who overanalyze every piece of information. Just look at the Hermen Hulst thread for a classic example of gamers jumping to conclusions and setting wild expectations.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

This is all that needs to be said here:

and frankly not very good business.

Sony have seen the likes of Nvidia/AMD/Nintendo/others make bank in various ways and Sony have dived right in. Yes it is business but it still sucks as an individual. I'm old now though....I'll just wait the consoles(s) out a few years and pick up the HW and games dirt cheap. I have a PC for any third-party stuff I want (assuming I can get a decent priced GPU soon!).

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Because the theory built on MS being supportive of cross gen games is that it leads to games being made for lowest common denominator.

So in this case it applies to PS5 too. Horizon 2, Ragnarok and GT7 will be dumbed down so it can run on 2013 PS4s.

MS has the Xbox One. The thing that couldnt even compete with a PS4. And Micrsoft has shown nothing impressive. SHOWN. Perhaps The Medium? And that game made as much noise as Destruction AS. Sony has already released 3 major PS5 exclusives. And R&C: Rift Apart is coming next week. They all have their next gen gimmicks/features. And they are all going to have to experiment. Santa Monica has always released games on last gen consoles that blew games on current gen consoles.

Nobody would have bitched about Halo if it didnt look like a Xbox One game. It’s Competing with fortnite for graphical fortitude.

 

[systemr123]

How have you been deceived? Did you sell your PS4? Or buy a PS5 too soon? I am not seeing the bad part here.

"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features.

"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."

No where in the above bold text do I see "We believe in ending console lifecycle/video game development once a new platform has be introduced"

Assumptions of non informed people are the mother of all f$Ckups and the reason why this whole nonsense keeps going on. People assume Jim Ryan meant something else when he said he believes in generations but refuse to actually read the factual interview. I applaud the strategy they choose because it’s not only in a business sense smart to have cross gen games but also if you just bought a ps4 last year it’s not suddenly useless. We already see some awesome exclusives as ratchet and clank and when the tech transition is fully done we can not even imagine how good games will look and play.

 

[Interfectum]

Jesus Christ, you chucklenuts actually made me defend Sony. We have one of the worst ongoing chip shortages in history during a pandemic which clearly forced Sony to adjust its strategy.
What's so difficult to understand? Even the automotive industry is gridlocked because of it. They can't release exclusives for a system they can't supply the demand for and the shortages will continue till 2022-23. It is a realpolitik decision to hang to the PS4 till the situation changes.

What the fuck is wrong with you people.

PS5 is outselling PS4 launch aligned isn't it? Did Sony release Killzone or Infamous SS on PS3 too?

And no, they can't just pull a God of War 2 PS4 port out of their ass to adjust strategy, it was planned from the beginning. As was GT7.

 

[Skifi28]

Playing GT7 on a base PS4 in 2022 :

What happens if you try it on a launch pro then?

 

[KAL2006]

How have you been deceived? Did you sell your PS4? Or buy a PS5 too soon? I am not seeing the bad part here.

"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features.

"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."

No where in the above bold text do I see "We believe in ending console lifecycle/video game development once a new platform has be introduced"

Again I'll ask that same question

Why didn't Sony state the platforms of Grab Turismo 7 and God of War to begin with. We have so many 3rd party always get announced with the platforms revealed the same time as the tease trailer. It's frustrating for many as this is something people are not used to with Sony. No one expected cross gen games 2 years after PS5 release this is something no one expected and especially with Sony not even stating God of War and Gran Turismo 7 platforms until now. For many to wait until Gran Turismo 8 for a true next gen only racing game is a put off.

 

[Bridges]

Weird of them to make the heavy hitters crossgen and keep only the smaller/more niche titles as the "true exclusives". I would've jumped on Returnal had it also come to PS4.

 

[GuinGuin]

PS5 is outselling the PS4 which was the fastest selling console of all time.

This pandemic excuse is bullshit.

Yes but they had planned to double those numbers. As you can tell from scalper prices demand is still outstripping supply by a huge amount.

 

[sircaw]

Sigh I wish that was the reason. I'll need to resume it some time these days. I'm still in the earlier stages so it has to get better if the reviews are remotely accurate.

It does get really good.

There were a couple moments in the game when i was like, jeez, that was really really cool.

My ps4 pro did make a lot of noise, the game is probably fantastic on a ps5 if you can get one

 

[Fake]

Hermen Hulst is right, the problem is Jim and his mouth.

Hermen Hulst Q&A: Interview with Head of PlayStation’s Worldwide Studios

What's next for Guerrilla, upcoming TV and film projects, and the guiding principles that drive PlayStation’s network of world-class game studios.

blog.playstation.com

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

If Rockstar and Sony went toe to toe in a battle, who would win when it comes to GENERATIONS?

 

[FunkMiller]

Jesus Christ, you chucklenuts actually made me defend Sony. We have one of the worst ongoing chip shortages in history during a pandemic which clearly forced Sony to adjust its strategy.
What's so difficult to understand? Even the automotive industry is gridlocked because of it. They can't release exclusives for a system they can't supply the demand for and the shortages will continue till 2022-23. It is a realpolitik decision to hang to the PS4 till the situation changes.

All of this would have been fine, if Sony had been more honest about the plans they had for the first couple of years for the Ps5, given the effect of the pandemic. But they weren’t, because they wanted to sell new consoles. That’s the problem.

 

[Pantz]

GT7 was supposed to be pure...

 

[Stuart360]

It looks equally good. The character and enemy designs in Forbidden West are more detailed though.

Nah HFW just looks like HZD with more colourful environments (which i prefer over the orig game), and some better animation. That 'side by side' comparison vid showed little difference in the actual gameplay parts.
Ratchet honestly looks like a playable Pixar movie. Sure its art style may not be as demanding as a realistic art style, but it is what it is.

 

[Represent.]

Another blatant lie.

Imrans "tHeY hAd pS4 vErSiOnS" plea was all . Sony was already advertising this game as a PS5 exclusive from Day 1. They already knew about the PS4 version when they made this trailer.

"We believe in generations" was a blatant lie

 

[longdi]

Check the other thread. Herman is bringing all PS5 games to PC eventually. I am gonna sell my PS5 while i can still make a profit and use that $1000 to buy a 3080 either this summer or next year. I can wait a few months to play the 2-3 last gen exclusives they release every year.

the 3080 will run all PS5 10 tflops games at 2x the framerate with better ray tracing and dlss.

dont forget to do that 3 year gamepass deal!

Xbox Game Pass Ultimate tip: Get 2 years of access for dirt cheap

Currently, Xbox Game Pass Ultimate costs $17 per month. But with this trick, you can get it at over 50 percent off for up to two years.

www.pcworld.com

 

[GuinGuin]

Another thing I came to think of:

God of War 2 (PS2) and Gran Turismo 6 (PS3) were released after PS3 and PS4 were released respectively. I think that was way shittier tbh. The fact that I had to boot up my dusty old brink-of-death-PS3 to play the latest main entry in one of my favourite franchises was way more of a travesty than being able to boot up a dedicated, graphically enhanced PS5 version of GT7.

Colin Moriarty said this has never happened before, but my interpretation is that has indeed happened before but in a way, way worse way IMO.

Yeah that did suck. I skipped GT6 because I didn't want to play a last gen game. Kudos to Sony for not repeating that mistake.

 

[RJMacready73]

A business is not gonna walk away from a locked in user base of over a 100mil... What's so fucking hard to understand? We'll get a steady mix of cross gen and next gen exclusives for next couple of years, they have enough studios FFS and did you all not see the cross gen Horizon Forbidden West?? Shit looked incredible on PS5

 

[systemr123]

GT7 was supposed to be pure...

No it wasn’t, but I can guarantee you that GT8 will not be released on ps4

 

[FunkMiller]

Seriously? They were never going to abandon a 100M userbase for one that can only sniff a third of that by next Spring. This feels like a case of short memories and misplaced expectations. They never said they were not doing cross-gen. That was inferred by people who overanalyze every piece of information. Just look at the Hermen Hulst thread for a classic example of gamers jumping to conclusions and setting wild expectations.

Sorry dude, but I’ve been following all this pretty closely, and not once did Sony make it clear that a majority of Ps5 releases would be cross gen. I’d be fine with all of this if they had - and I wouldn’t have bought a Ps5 either, knowing I could play the games on my Pro.

 

[Zekra Dezivad]

It's good for GT since it's supposed to be a PSVR2 launch title. It will be easier pushing for higher framerates.
God of war meh.

 

[hyperbertha]

It does get really good.

There were a couple moments in the game when i was like, jeez, that was really really cool.

My ps4 pro did make a lot of noise, the game is probably fantastic on a ps5 if you can get one

my ps4 pro is super silent always. Got lucky there.

 

[Interfectum]

No it wasn’t, but I can guarantee you that GT8 will not be released on ps4

No, it'll be gimped by a PS5 port instead of being PS5 Pro exclusive.

 

[skit_data]

The problem is that by targeting 4k, dynamic 4k, 1800p etc, that already takes away a huge chink of the extra gpu bruteforce of these next gen consoles, and thats not even taking into account the fact that devs seem to still be on this 60fps train, with no sign of slowing yet, which in itself takes away another huge chunk of these next gen gpu's power.

Games are not suddenly going to start looking like the UE5 tech demo once cross gen stops, trust me on that lol.

Yeah, very true, a lot of that power goes towards processing everything at a higher resolution and framerate.

I really wanna see some improvements when AMD launches FSR, but for now I’m a little skeptical. I could see them rendering everything at 1080p-1440p and then use FSR to get a nice 4k res. I guess we will see if this 60fps trend will hold, for now it’s pretty much a standard offering on all games but I can still see it disappear sometime in the following 1-2 years only for 30fps become a standard again.

 

[GuinGuin]

Nah HFW just looks like HZD with more colourful environments (which i prefer over the orig game), and some better animation. That 'side by side' comparison vid showed little difference in the actual gameplay parts.
Ratchet honestly looks like a playable Pixar movie. Sure its art style may not be as demanding as a realistic art style, but it is what it is.

Don't try to gaslight me. Forbidden West is so far beyond Zero Dawn that I still can't believe it's real. The details are absolutely incredible.

 

[longdi]

Another blatant lie.

Imrans "tHeY hAd pS4 vErSiOnS" plea was all . Sony was already advertising this game as a PS5 exclusive from Day 1. They already knew about the PS4 version when they made this trailer.

"We believe in generations" was a blatant lie

how does jimbo plan to weasel his way out?

proof! or poof!

 

[Papacheeks]

Imran is an industry apologist and doesnt have any balls to criticizse the higher ups. Bans people who disagree with him on twitter.

Thats not the case at all. This is cross gen simply because of money. More PS4 owners = more money. Thats it. Has nothing to do with development.

Jim Ryan sees money and nothing else.

Fucking trash move and we will still be waiting for true next gen games to hit well into 2025.

Yes, to an extent. But knowing the tools/engines that are running on a x86 dev kit and then building the game with that because at the time of starting the next project or continuing to the sequel its what you have at the time. So again games that started 2017,2018,2019 will be mostly cross gen.

Ratchet is one of the games that started mid-late 2019 and by that time they had early devkits. Anything before that would have started on devkits that targeted PS4. Anything Bend, Naughty dog, suckerpunch have been working on forward are PS5 only titles.

 

[Digity]

So the dream about seamless travelling between worlds in GoW goes out of the window.
For GT7 it makes sense atleast, ssd doesn't change core gameplay in a racing game. It will be just faster loading, RT, better graphics etc., they can scale that back for PS4.

This sucks for GT7. Dynamic weather, bigger grids, full vr support through the entire game, better physics, lots of things. Racing games aren’t just about visuals.

 

[Blood Borne]

On the flip side, it means those games might be 60fps on PS5

 

[Interfectum]

how does jimbo plan to weasel his way out?

proof! or poof!

Jim: "It's PS5 exclusive.... on next gen consoles."

 

[Melfice7]

No it wasn’t, but I can guarantee you that GT8 will not be released on ps4

But it will be released on ps5 and ps6

 

[Stuart360]

Don't try to gaslight me. Forbidden West is so far beyond Zero Dawn that I still can't believe it's real. The details are absolutely incredible.

I honestly dont know what gaslighting is, and giving an opinion isnt trying to make you look like anything.
HFW is not a huge jump over HZD, and Ratchet looks considerably better.

 

[soulbait]

I fully realize I'm posting on a video game forum and am out of touch probably, but I can't think of a single person who WANTS to play these cutting edge games on a PS4 anyway. I've intentionally put off playing cross gen games until I get my PS5 (or just buy them on the Series X). The PS4 is a completely obsolete system, so it seems weird to support it 3 years past the expiration date when the majority of the big new games are exclusive to the PS5 anyway. What were the miles Morales numbers? That was a launch game and as cross gen as it gets, and I bet the PS5 sales smoked it. It's going to get even worse a year in.

I don't like when Microsoft does it either, but gamepass and their PC side of things at least has some logic to it.

People who cannot afford a PS5 right now and enjoy gaming.

 

[Interfectum]

On the flip side, it means those games might be 60fps on PS5

No doubt both will have a 60fps performance option now.

 

[skit_data]

Yeah that did suck. I skipped GT6 because I didn't want to play a last gen game. Kudos to Sony for not repeating that mistake.

GT6 was much better than GT5 IMO but the loadtimes were beyond unbearable (just like GT5). Tried playing it last month and it’s practically impossible coming from playing PS5 games.

This solution is better in pretty much every way.

 

[FunkMiller]

On the flip side, it means those games might be 60fps on PS5

That, and faster loading, appear to be the only actual reasons for owning a Ps5 in the coming year or two.