Support NeoGAF

[Whitecrow]

i personally loved the banter between Nate & Sully in the UC games plus Nates little quips throughout his journey, its suits the style of the game plus ND are masters when it comes to this sorta shit then you get others where the protagonist wont fuck up

It' not that I hate it, but I cant help but thinking that they dont seem to think 'well, should this characters say that now'?
To me looks like they just add banter for the sake of it.

 

[Genx3]

Theres more than just introverts and extroverts. It's not you're one or the either. Most protagonists you included are in neither of these two. They're more complex or in some cases very simple such as Doomguy.

There is?
I mean if you're not extraverted you're introverted.
Introverted people eventually learn ways to better socialize while extraverts are naturally social people.
A lot of factors will change how social an introvert is while an extrovert stays social most of the time.

 

[RJMacready73]

It' not that I hate it, but I cant help but thinking that they dont seem to think 'well, should this characters say that now'?
To me looks like they just add banter for the sake of it.

its been a year or two since i last did another run through of the UC games (i absolutely love em) but i thought they balanced it well, especially in the long sequences where you are traversing or climbing through a level with no real action, it breaks the silence with an environmental quip or observation every now and then and ya gotta remember its a videogame, long bouts of silence isn't good

 

[The Cockatrice]

There is?
I mean if you're not extraverted you're introverted.
Introverted people eventually learn ways to better socialize while extraverts are naturally social people.
A lot of factors will change how social an introvert is while an extrovert stays social most of the time.

Thats....not..how it works. Or are you saying if I decide to stop going to parties or hangingout in groups I instantly become introverted and viceversa? Did not know it was just like flipping a switch. Thanks dude, you saved anxiety!

 

[Genx3]

Thats....not..how it works. Or are you saying if I decide to stop going to parties or hangingout in groups I instantly become introverted and viceversa? Did not know it was just like flipping a switch. Thanks dude, you saved anxiety!

Different people land on different points on the spectrum.
Some people are more introverted than others.

FYI that social anxiety indeed makes you an introvert .

 

[jufonuk]

I don't know I can think of a fair few introverts or less talky main characters.

Kratos- God of war
Joel- The Last of us
Cloud- FFVII
The Slayer- Doom 2016 and Eternal
Claire and Leon- Resident Evil 2
Issac Clark- Dead Space
Solid Snake- Metal Gear Solid
Sam- Death Stranding.
Duke Nukem- Duke Nukem

These are off the top of my head in the last 10 minutes or so

Introverted character Solid snake. Yeah sure. He hardly ever talks on the codec.

Doom guy is real stoic (I haven’t played eternal yet.)

 

[McCheese]

I'd like to play as a blind, transgender, wheelchair bound protaganist.

I think we've found who Annapurna are sending all their user surveys to!

 

[The artful mincer]

Introverted character Solid snake. Yeah sure. He hardly ever talks on the codec.

Doom guy is real stoic (I haven’t played eternal yet.)

Before metal gear solid he's living in a shed away from the rest of the world?

And before mgs2 it just him and octagon living together in a gay sexless marriage.

This is why it's complicated this characters have multiple layers to then that can't be pigeonholed into introvert or Extrovert.

They change and develop as well. Snake is more Extroverted towards the end of mgs2 than beginning of mgs1

 

[jufonuk]

Before metal gear solid he's living in a shed away from the rest of the world?

And before mgs2 it just him and octagon living together in a gay sexless marriage.

This is why it's complicated this characters have multiple layers to then that can't be pigeonholed into introvert or Extrovert.

They change and develop as well. Snake is more Extroverted towards the end of mgs2 than beginning of mgs1

 

[MrJTeera]

Nathan Drake, to an extent, is an introvert. I mean, the whole complication in Uncharted 4 wouldn’t happen if he had just open up.

 

[Lunarorbit]

In Control Jessie isn't an extrovert. Shes pretty taken aback by what's happening but she goes with the flow. It's weird and mysterious but that's the appeal.

 

[ReBurn]

So we looking for more emo games?

 

[Aion002]

Well, Uncharted is clearly inspired by Indiana Jones so the extrovert aspect (which is just fun banter) is part of it...

Many main characters in narrative focused games are way more serious and different from it, games like: The Last of Us, The Witcher, God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, the new Tomb Raiders, Deus Ex, Dishonored, Alan Wake, Control, Assassin's Creed 1/3/Origins and so on.

So... Saying every game is silly... Maybe play other games?

 

[hangdang69]

IT has nothing to do with their mood to me. I just don't need constant exposition to tell me what's going on. I can see it. People don't constantly talk to themselves like game characters do, so it's jarring and annoying in games. Days Gone is the worst offender I can think of in recent games.

 

[jason10mm]

I blame Joss Whedon - he seems to have popularised this glib, snarko-sarcastic brand of humour with things like Firefly and made it the mainstream staple thanks to his work on the Marvel universe. It's just become the standard that every time the heroes are facing down insurmountable odds and unthinkable levels of pressure they respond with 'man, I really ought to get paid more for this' or some other glib expression of stoic indifference. I'm very done with it to be honest.

To be fair to the characters though, they often go into very dangerous circumstances and never suffer any significant consequences. So naturally they are glib about mortal combat, they have internalized the idea of plot armor!

Alas, the pendulum swings too far the other way when a character will NEVER willing put themselves in danger (or allow anyone they care about to take any risks) until they hit a wall and have no choice. It's just the over dramatization of decisions common in media.

Additionally, the Tomb Raider games frequently have Lara vocalize concern about her safety or the safety of others. But then the game has you free climbing sheer rock walls, jumping bottomless chasms on the reg, and fending off hordes of savages, so her fears seems a little disconnected But at least she seems to have some concern over the situations.

 

[Fbh]

Extroverted doesn't really mean you are always cheerful and motivated. I know plenty of extroverted people that bitch and moan about everything.

But yeah, this trend in games where characters need to constantly talk can get annoying. I think it fits Uncharted, but in a lot of other games it feels forced and annoying.
It's the same as in movies and how since the MCU blew up almost every action movie needs constant humorous banters and quips

 

[synchronicity]

We see a lot of cringe dialogue because for some reason devs think characters must be speaking whatever shit that coes through their minds, commenting on everything

I've known people like this in real life. Their mouth is a constant stream of consciousness.

 

[aclar00]

EDIT Dont et the thread title misslead you. This is not about intro or extroverts, it's about characters having a mindset according to what they are experiencing.

This may seem (and may be) a silly question but, it almost seems like if characters arent constantly balnting about everything they are not interesting,

We see a lot of cringe dialogue because for some reason devs think characters must be speaking whatever shit that coes through their minds, commenting on everything and in summary, trying to make them look jokesters.

I'm currently replaying Uncharted 4, and while there's no inherently childish cringe dialoge, dialogue is a nostop jokefest and it makes less than 0 effort on reflecting, in anyway the possible mindstate of the characters.
Alsothey made Sam just as a Natahn 2.0, same personality, and withount anytrace of being the older brother who always tried to take care of nate. ANd I dont find it beliavable.
But that's just one example.

In almost every story driven game I played (except some FFs), charaters never look worried, always look cheerful, motivated, and full of energy whatever happens with the world. The mood remains unalterable.
They never seem to get tired or reclutant about shit.

I dont know. It's just a thought. but what I thik it's clear is that most of time there's chatter just for the sake of it, when in a lot of cases, they should be in such a bad situation that makes such happyflower mood to be impossible to keep.

Not really talkinh about the quality of the quips, but i think a lot developers add this now as a way to fill the world and make them feel fuller or more alive. Some just put in more effort to the actual script and choices.

 

[EverydayBeast]

I salivate when I get a quiet character they’re determined to keep link quiet and that’s great. No one care if Nathan Drake actually talks.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Your mistake was expecting anything good from u4 except for the graphic and combat.

Fixed it for you

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Why would anyone want to play as gloomy characters? They're most of the time boring.

If a character is boring that down to bad writing. An extroverted character poorly written is boring as well.

 

[akaFullmetal]

What's funny is if it wasn't in there people would be complaining. Some have complained about it for kena not have any. So goes to show some will complain and other will for not having it, comes down to preference I guess.

 

[Fart Knight]

Play Hellblade. It's on GP

 

[Whitecrow]

What's funny is if it wasn't in there people would be complaining. Some have complained about it for kena not have any. So goes to show some will complain and other will for not having it, comes down to preference I guess.

Yes, of course. Complaining is free : D

But again, my point is having it when it makes sense, and not having it when it doesnt. Take in account the context and the situation basically.

 

[lachesis]

Yeah. Recent Persona series for example - for me, is like experiencing what social extroverts are like at second hand.
Social rank maxing out - man o man. It would have been more impossible than defeating the hidden bosses if real "I" was the protagonist...

 

[Shakka43]

Uncharted is the one franchise where the characters constantly speaking is a positive point to the game, imo.

 

[Kerlurk]

nvm

 

[Corgi1985]

Because most games are designed to appeal to the widest demographic possible, so everything is watered down and bland.

Also uncharted sucks

 

[GardenOfAbbylon]

I actually think we need people like Tidus and Squall sometimes. For as much as people complain they're bitches, at least they are DIFFERENT as opposed to super-awesome-can't do no wrong-pussy slayer-cool dude. Too many of those.

 

[GymWolf]

Fixed it for you

Nah combat is great too, maybe aim\cover are not as precise as gears, but animations, hit reactions, melee mixed with guns in a seamless way, using platform and grappling hook are all pretty great.

There is not nearly enough of that in the game because they thought that entire chapters discussing with the shithead brother while doing scripted climbing or 2 fucking flashback when they are kids were more fun that shooting mofos...

 

[bender]

Your mistake was expecting anything good from u4 except for the graphic and combat

Fixed.

 

[GymWolf]

Fixed.

I preferred more when you were a fat blonde human.

 

[bender]

I preferred more when you were a fat blonde human.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Blatant verbal descriptions on whats on their mind in gaming is:

1. Production values. Voice acting vs. text boxes

2. Uncluttered annoyances. Get rid of text boxes

3. Handholding emotions. If Character A doesn't say on screen he's scared about this dark room, the gamer might not be scared either

4. Adds general atmosphere. Hey, people speak in the minds or talk to people in real life. Having silent characters everywhere is something gamers expected during the old days of gaming with limited cartridges and floppy discs. But with CDs and up, people want to hear things

 

[balt1kr1s]

Being extrovert have nothing to do with talking about everything that happens to you or around you lol.
Introvert recharges batteries by being alone, Extrovert recharges batteries when sorrounded by people, it really does not define who you are.
You can be shy, socially anxious extrovert and very social introvert.

 

[WitchHunter]

By the looks of it your browser's spellchecker is disabled.

 

[Airola]

Came to post this, glad I didn't have to!

 

[ABnormal]

it's weird when wanting to play a game and the protagonist constantly talking to themselves or others to let you know what is happening, i much prefer visual cues and color coding things that are gameplay relevant than the character telling me "i guess i can climb that" it's so unnecessary and bloated. the game designers can fill these empty gameplay moments with music and interesting sound designs or distant chatter to give the illusion of something always happening.
some of these game designers are really scared of a game being silent at times and the only thing you'll be hearing going to be your footsteps which i find weird and irrational because look at souls games for examples, they take the silence and use it to great effect to relay the thick atmosphere on you.

In general I agree. There are obviously exceptions, like the aforementioned Uncharted, which wants to be exactly like that, but for the most time, I would prefer a subtler, more natural way to get hints and understand situations. I would like more Silent Hill 2s, so to speak.

 

[Inuteu]

Completely different takes. Uncharted is trying to simulate an Indiana Jones type of atmosphere where the protagonist is charismatic and witty and always knows how to get out of crazy situations. Gears of War on the other hand is trying to emulate the gung-ho war vibes of 80s action movies or something like the Expendables where all the characters revel in bathing in enemy blood and scream at the top of their lungs.

ok but I find the GoW dialogue in general totaly cringe worthy

specially with some caracters in 4 and 5

 

[junguler]

In general I agree. There are obviously exceptions, like the aforementioned Uncharted, which wants to be exactly like that, but for the most time, I would prefer a subtler, more natural way to get hints and understand situations. I would like more Silent Hill 2s, so to speak.

well yes, there is always going to be exceptions to any rule and this case is no different, the problem is we hardly get any witty/smart_ass protagonists and usually always end up with cringy ones that just wouldn't shut the fuck up ever.

 

[ABnormal]

well yes, there is always going to be exceptions to any rule and this case is no different, the problem is we hardly get any witty/smart_ass protagonists and usually always end up with cringy ones that just wouldn't shut the fuck up ever.

I'm afraid that it's not a writing related issue. I think it's primarily due to developers trying to be sure that even the dumbest of gamers can understand what's happening and what to do, in order to motivate them to go further in the game.
The sad thing is that the average gamers is seen as a dumb simpleton

 

[junguler]

I'm afraid that it's not a writing related issue. I think it's primarily due to developers trying to be sure that even the dumbest of gamers can understand what's happening and what to do, in order to motivate them to go further in the game.
The sad thing is that the average gamers is seen as a dumb simpleton

the extremes are getting further and further apart for sure, on one hand we have souls like games that don't explain anything to you and demand you to figure out everything yourself and on the other hand we have games that come with game journalist difficulty level that play themselves more or less and give you no challenge at all.
i like to think sanity will win in the end but i'm not sure if we even deserve such a thing with how divided we are in what we want in our video games.

 

[ABnormal]

the extremes are getting further and further apart for sure, on one hand we have souls like games that don't explain anything to you and demand you to figure out everything yourself and on the other hand we have games that come with game journalist difficulty level that play themselves more or less and give you no challenge at all.
i like to think sanity will win in the end but i'm not sure if we even deserve such a thing with how divided we are in what we want in our video games.

I think that "Mr. explanation" games will continue to be the mainstream, while at the same time we will have a niche of more "guided" experiences. In the 8 and 16 bit era, nearly all the gamers were hardcore ones, willing to put all themselves to overcame any challenge the games created. But the market hugely changed, including a very large number of casual gamers, who are not prone to put so much effort and willpower on them. Market has just adapted to the demand.
To me, it's ok until subtler games will continue to come out. It's rare for them to receive an AAA budget, tough.

 

[sainraja]

I would say Uncharted handles that sort of thing in a mindful way. It's not over the top and Nathan does react to situations appropriately (for the most part). I think it adds to the personality of the series and is what I liked about Uncharted. I don't want to see that in every game though, specially in games where it doesn't make sense but I think it fits for Uncharted.

 

[junguler]

I think that "Mr. explanation" games will continue to be the mainstream, while at the same time we will have a niche of more "guided" experiences. In the 8 and 16 bit era, nearly all the gamers were hardcore ones, willing to put all themselves to overcame any challenge the games created. But the market hugely changed, including a very large number of casual gamers, who are not prone to put so much effort and willpower on them. Market has just adapted to the demand.
To me, it's ok until subtler games will continue to come out. It's rare for them to receive an AAA budget, tough.

add to this the fact of people who gamed on 8 and 16 bit eras of gaming getting older, having family, jobs and other distractions to keep them busy and wanting to relax when gaming and you get what we have right now, this is not to say everyone likes those more relaxed games and it's evident by looking at hardcore gamer communities like here on gaf but the majority of gamers seem to want entertainment from their games more than challenge these days.

 

[ABnormal]

add to this the fact of people who gamed on 8 and 16 bit eras of gaming getting older, having family, jobs and other distractions to keep them busy and wanting to relax when gaming and you get what we have right now, this is not to say everyone likes those more relaxed games and it's evident by looking at hardcore gamer communities like here on gaf but the majority of gamers seem to want entertainment from their games more than challenge these days.

Exactly, and I admit that I also feel like that often, being nearly 47 and having far less time than before, to be dedicated to gaming. That's another reason that also makes me feel this "easygoing" nature of present games is here to stay.

 

[Raven117]

Dude, wrong genre for this.

 

[Tschumi]

EDIT Dont et the thread title misslead you. This is not about intro or extroverts, it's about characters having a mindset according to what they are experiencing.

This may seem (and may be) a silly question but, it almost seems like if characters arent constantly balnting about everything they are not interesting,

We see a lot of cringe dialogue because for some reason devs think characters must be speaking whatever shit that coes through their minds, commenting on everything and in summary, trying to make them look jokesters.

I'm currently replaying Uncharted 4, and while there's no inherently childish cringe dialoge, dialogue is a nostop jokefest and it makes less than 0 effort on reflecting, in anyway the possible mindstate of the characters.
Alsothey made Sam just as a Natahn 2.0, same personality, and withount anytrace of being the older brother who always tried to take care of nate. ANd I dont find it beliavable.
But that's just one example.

In almost every story driven game I played (except some FFs), charaters never look worried, always look cheerful, motivated, and full of energy whatever happens with the world. The mood remains unalterable.
They never seem to get tired or reclutant about shit.

I dont know. It's just a thought. but what I thik it's clear is that most of time there's chatter just for the sake of it, when in a lot of cases, they should be in such a bad situation that makes such happyflower mood to be impossible to keep.

"Balnting" i can't really say much except you made my brain freeze as i tried to guess what you meant.

...

I also agree that super snappy dialogue is a cancer in gaming, television and film, yeah..

But still, guys like Garrett/Corvo from Thief/Dishonored are but one example of they who break this mold somewhat... Sam from splinter cell...

 

[Whitecrow]

"Balnting" i can't really say much except you made my brain freeze as i tried to guess what you meant.

...

Sorry, my ADHD sometimes makes me type (or say) weird things.

The shitty keyboard I've used in the first post didnt help either : (

 

[Vaelka]

The main thing that annoys me is how they try and make '' marvel jokes '' to themselves where they're just talking to themselves and making observations in a snarky way.
Usually it's just cringe.
And also when they treat you like a moron by making the most obvious observations imaginable that are just meant to help the player.
Like yes thanks I know how a ladder works.