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"MANY developers have been sitting in meetings for the past year desperately trying to get Series S launch requirements dropped"
- Thread starter Tiago Rodrigues
- Start date
cireza
Member
It is actually hold back by PS4.
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FF7R the ps4 game?
Kataploom
Gold Member
It got the millions from Sony though... And more money is always better... Like normal people are just the ones having enough from too much money. There's no such a thing as "creative vision" in business, if it makes money, put the peasants to work and call it a day, that's what they're paid forLol...Honestly, I think at this point, management is more like, "why invest millions of dollars to develop our Japanese based game for a console that sells like crap in Japan and historically has the lowest software attachment rate? Now, if we can get 30 millionupfront and drop it on Gamepass then who cares how much it sells!"
Deerock71
Member
The more the world's economy continues it's downturn, the more PS5s and Series Xs will slip through this generation's fingers.
Doesn't change facts.
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
i think the stock issue will recover soon, at least PS5 stocks is way more stable compared to years ago.The more the world's economy continues it's downturn, the more PS5s and Series Xs will slip through this generation's fingers.
Doesn't change facts.
GymWolf
Member
No nextgen only game is on pc right now except returnal that never looked that hot to begin with.
So you can't say how low are the requirements for spidey 2 or wolverine on pc, i'm pretty sure that spidey 2 is not gonna run on a potato pc unless you play at 720p30, and if they use the ssd massively, the minimum requisites is not gonna be an analogic hard disk unless cerny lied like a bitch to our face.
But you have a point.
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skit_data
Member
But the Switch does not require to have their games to run on a more powerful machine via the same SDK. The Series S is meant to get all the games that the Series X and PS5 have, something the Switch doesn’t.
The Switch recieving actual full on ports of games like Doom and Witcher 3 shows that added work is needed to make them work on the Switch. If that ended up to be the approach to development on Series S it would be considered a pretty big failure because the unified XDK isn’t meant to work that way AFAIK.
YeulEmeralda
Member
The truth is that not every developer is up to the task.
Remember the last of us on PS3?
Some devs are wizards others barely know Unreal.
Remember the last of us on PS3?
Some devs are wizards others barely know Unreal.
I think this is pretty good at explaining some of the pros and cons. It shows that the spe’s were not a good fit for using lots of branching. They were good at number crunching.
https://www.copetti.org/writings/consoles/playstation-3/#composition-of-the-spe
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Flutta
Banned
You usually got some good takes but this is not it ma man
Not sure how serious you are but we all know they are nothing alike, they don’t even play in same playing field. Let me up you with this.
Series S is a cheap trick to fool people into thinking they got a ”next gen” console.
Klosshufvud
Member
Series S is a perfectly fine console for someone who say owns a decent gaming PC already and wants something easier/smaller/cheaper in the living room but that still plays current-gen games, or as a secondary console. It's not a trick. You get what you buy, which is in Series S' case actually some really good value for the money. This is like dismissing anyone that isn't buying a high-end gaming GPU. Which is pretty stupid since you still have access to countless games with a modest GPU in completely playable conditions. Series S is just an evolution on the fact that consoles are becoming simplified PCs.You usually got some good takes but this is not it ma man
Let me up you with this.
Series S is a cheap trick to fool people into thinking they got a ”next gen” console.
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I'd go a step further .... cross gen proves very few games need "next gen" power to begin with for anything beyond playing in 4K/60. Lower tier solutions like Series S or last gen (or even Switch in many cases) are fine for getting the same game at lower graphical fidelity.They should complain about dropping last gen versions
GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
Edgelord79
Gold Member
“Many” I love Twitter.
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RoboFu
One of the green rats
Omg some of you are dense. Lol sorry but it’s true. You really do not even need any technical knowledge just a little common sense. If the Xbox S was holding the other two consoles back EVERY game on those two consoles should never need a performance mode. ALL games should run 60 fps easily.
Gambit2483
Member
Right, so shouldn't it be announced on Xbox Series by now? Which make me wonder why not...esp since all other FF are on the platform
gothmog
Gold Member
Are there any examples of the XSS being something that is dragging console titles down? I mean there were some very real examples IIRC early in the Xbone/PS4 gen of titles that seemed to have resolutions that matched (the whole parity nonsense), but it became less and less of an issue as tools and rendering techniques got better. In some ways having a weakest in class piece of supported hardware is a benefit in that tools become less about specific hardware and more about having profiles for different hardware classes.
drotahorror
Member
All the more reason to make your game ps5 and or pc exclusive if you wish to push graphics.
Of course the series s is holding devs back. Great machine but it’s just a beefed up xbox one.
Of course the series s is holding devs back. Great machine but it’s just a beefed up xbox one.
DaGwaphics
Member
That sounded perfectly fair to me. It's been obvious that XSS hasn't been the developers dream come true in terms of specs, but they'll make it work. There are expectations in regards to what the output on XSX/PS5 needs to look like and how things need to perform, those requirements should keep things in line for XSS ports at lower settings and resolution. The only way that falters is if you are pushing XSX/PS5 down to the lowest resolutions and settings already which is going to give you a result that isn't going to be excepted by buyers anyway. I doubt we see XSX/PS5 dropping below 1080p with a quality reconstruction applied over that and reasonably high fidelity settings on the image. That will push devs below 1080p on XSS and force them to reconstruct back to 1080p, but that tech is getting better all the time and lower resolutions are better supported now than what they used to be (case in point the Matrix demo or Metro Exodus).
Even Sony's own first party games will support PCs with a lower spec than PS5, again because PS5 is always going to target 1080p with reconstruction at the lowest on console which will give them room for lower fidelity 1080p on PC (with minimum specs on many PC games only targeting 720p/30).
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
At that point, the last thing we will be worried about is playing fucking video games... or arguing about them.The more the world's economy continues it's downturn, the more PS5s and Series Xs will slip through this generation's fingers.
Doesn't change facts.
Trazyn the Infinite
Member
The more the world's economy continues it's downturn, the more PS5s and Series Xs will slip through this generation's fingers.
Doesn't change facts.
You aren't saying anything factual. You are moving goalposts in an effort to defend a shitty platform. Whether it is because you failed to get the objectively superior platform (Series X/PS5) or you are just too poor to afford it - either way its a clear cry from help from you XD
Deerock71
Member
The fact is the Series S is outselling the Series X. The fact is the Series S runs UE5. The opinion is the Series S is a shitty platform. The conjecture is I'm poor and crying for help. WTF is wrong with you?
Dust-by-Monday
Member
Ah I didn’t know PS4 was current gen. Thought that was last gen. Series S is considered a current gen system so developers are shackled into making games for that piece of crap for at least 5 more years whereas Sony can drop PS4 as it’s no longer a current gen system.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
With naughty dogs latest blog post stating that PC is now in their pipeline for all projects going forward, where they will actively be developing from the ground up with PC as a platform.....I wouldn't worry about the series S at all. Every Sony first party dev will be targeting PCs with worse CPUs, GPUS, memory configurations and hard drives than the Series S. Just like Microsoft.....
The series S will not be an issue at all, but it will get the blame for business decisions done much higher up at platform holders or developers.
The series S will not be an issue at all, but it will get the blame for business decisions done much higher up at platform holders or developers.
Karak
Member
We asked some devs. Both console as well as PC only to get their take on where specs sit and what they do. Then we discussed it during yesterdays 3 hour podcast.
Long story short. Engines, developer skill(something right now that a lot of people don't want to admit), type of game, all will impact if the S is an issue. With 4 of the 20 devs stated flatly, they felt it was awesome and gave them a great base.
4 disliked it for their specific games but made it work pretty easy. 3 Disliking it completely. 9 stating that if the S was gone not all games would get better and they questioned the idea that even current game designs would radically change if only the X and PS5 existed and didn't feel that it was even a part of discussions.
All of them pointed out that the S series memory was a bunghole to work with but that many devs skilled in specifically that work trade their ideas alot between them.
Long story short. Engines, developer skill(something right now that a lot of people don't want to admit), type of game, all will impact if the S is an issue. With 4 of the 20 devs stated flatly, they felt it was awesome and gave them a great base.
4 disliked it for their specific games but made it work pretty easy. 3 Disliking it completely. 9 stating that if the S was gone not all games would get better and they questioned the idea that even current game designs would radically change if only the X and PS5 existed and didn't feel that it was even a part of discussions.
All of them pointed out that the S series memory was a bunghole to work with but that many devs skilled in specifically that work trade their ideas alot between them.
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3liteDragon
Member
They said PS5 is still their primary platform & Hermen attested in a to that in a separate interview by saying that testing is done on the PS platform before anything else. So their future titles excluding Factions will still be built from the ground up for PS5 first.
Future PS5 titles from them will have way higher minimum spec requirements than the Series S.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
You think Series S is the only reason why FFVII Remake hasn't been announced for Xbox yet ?
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DaGwaphics
Member
I don't think MS enforces a bar that high even. If a dev was really struggling with it and only got 720p/30 out of it, I think that game would get released without issue. We've already seen games with wide disparity in resolution and at 30fps when XSX is at 60, that clearly isn't against the rules.
So far the AAA devs haven't been having an issue getting to a solid end result. I have no idea how much effort they put into that, maybe not much for some and a lot more for others.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Thanks for the update, will check your podcast out. Seems like the majority is fine with it? With only a few devs having issue with it.
Klosshufvud
Member
"We’re excited to be offering The Last of Us Part I on PC in the future, and know that, moving forward, adding PC development to the way we develop games, which in no way undermines the importance of PlayStation 5 as our primary platform, will continue to benefit our team in the long run. As Naughty Dog has come to better understand hybrid and work-from-home development over the last few years, PC development offers our team flexibility in how, when, and where our games are created. Much like players can enjoy Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection on PC from a variety of PC builds, our developers can work on PC iterations on various pieces of hardware from home or in the office."
It's a bit up to translation but it definitely sounds like they're incorporating PC builds in their development process. Of course them being Sony devs will always express themselves in a manner that puts PS5 in the center. But it's hard to deny that ND seems to be changing how they approach PC from now on.
3liteDragon
Member
Ik they’re going in-house for PC, I’m saying as long as PS5’s the baseline & is the primary focus, I’m fine with it.
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
I guarantee you Returnal will run on weaker than PS5 PCs.
Karak
Member
I would say that ya for sure. But they are also IN IT. As in they can't not be ok with it for the majority as its popular and it is still very good cpu wise. But like I said a couple hated it.
I should add they seemed to indicate they didn't love any consoles lol.
Razvedka
Banned
Infinite's struggles are down entirely to 343. Blaming any particular piece of silicon is nonsense unless Microsoft mandated the game needed to release on the N64.
MarkMe2525
Member
MS has developed tools for developers to mitigate memory issues on Series S. Until those devs actually invest resources into building a workflow that incorporate those tools, I can't take their concerns as legitimate.
If those "memory multipliers", that MS engineers were touting, do end up being insufficient then these complaints would hold water. I personally cannot speak to the effectiveness of these tools, but I do recall that MS included hardware that accelerated these operations. It seems insincere to make the claim that the hardware is incapable of handling their vision, when they are aren't using said hardware in the manner that it was engineered to be used.
It's akin to early PS3 developers not using the SPE's, then complaining about the capabilities of the Cell. In that example, it took awhile for devs to come to grips with the hardware, but it was shown to be quite performant when used correctly.
If those "memory multipliers", that MS engineers were touting, do end up being insufficient then these complaints would hold water. I personally cannot speak to the effectiveness of these tools, but I do recall that MS included hardware that accelerated these operations. It seems insincere to make the claim that the hardware is incapable of handling their vision, when they are aren't using said hardware in the manner that it was engineered to be used.
It's akin to early PS3 developers not using the SPE's, then complaining about the capabilities of the Cell. In that example, it took awhile for devs to come to grips with the hardware, but it was shown to be quite performant when used correctly.
Gambit2483
Member
Maybe a combination of Series S and MS not wanting to pay what SE is suggesting to put it on Gamepass?
Honestly I'd really like to hear what others think instead of people just questioning what and why I think so
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Klosshufvud
Member
FF7R has no issues running off a PS4 or a PC with GTX 970. There is no plausible scenario where Series S couldn't power through that game at 60 fps with ease. It's amazing you'd ever argue that a PS4 game would be impossible to run on S when the latter is a huge upgrade in every measurable field.Maybe a combination of Series S and MS not wanting to pay what SE is suggesting to put it on Gamepass?
Honestly I'd really like to hear what others think instead of people just questioning what and why I think so
The more likely explanation are contracts (bribes) why it also didn't get a basic Steam version for years. Hardware had nothing to do with that.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Maybe a combination of Series S and MS not wanting to pay what SE is suggesting to put it on Gamepass?
Honestly I'd really like to hear what others think instead of people just questioning what and why I think so
The most accurate answer is that Sony have paid Square to keep it console exclusive. The game itself can run on base PS4 level hardware and the PC requirements, as pointed out in the post above mine, are nothing to write home about. We've also seen games more demanding than FFVII R running on Series S already.
Marketing has prevented FFVII R from getting an Xbox release so far.
Gambit2483
Member
See, now was that so hard to do?
But yea, unfortunately you may be right. Even still, how much could Sony be paying them that even SE would refuse a hefty Gamepass bag (and limit Franchise exposure)?
Not sure what you mean be "Marketing" as being a factor for its prevention of being released as MS would happily cover marketing cost if this came to Gamepass
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