Yes, Eiyuden Chronicles. My bad on the spelling. I think we generally agree on things. The devaluing of games by the industry just blows my mind.
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I think it's time we paid more for our hobby, this feels unsustainable.
- Thread starter Ivory Samoan
- Start date
killatopak
Member
It's only unsustainable for bad games.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I wouldn't mind paying more, to be honest. As long as I didn't feel like I was being ripped off.
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Katajx
Gold Member
Games haven’t been “just” $60-$70 in USD atleast for quite awhile.
I remember paying $120 for Battlefront 2015 with the season pass and everything. I was naive and thought it was okay, because I was supporting something I enjoyed.
I think it’s gotten worse, and we have been paying more for less. Seems like it’s popular to have less unlockables, and more things are pushed towards MTX and engagement hoping to keep you spending.
There are still some great games that don’t do that, but they are getting to become the exception instead of the norm. I find myself even missing the season pass model because it seemed like they told you what you were paying for and most times you could expect it within a year.
The games take longer to make, the teams are bigger, and it doesn’t automatically mean the games are getting better. People complain about the side quests and padding , but I would prefer the game to have content especially after a long development time.
I bought Suicide Squad and Hell Divers 2, and I got way more enjoyment out of one over the other, and I’m not even that big of a fan of shooters.
I remember paying $120 for Battlefront 2015 with the season pass and everything. I was naive and thought it was okay, because I was supporting something I enjoyed.
I think it’s gotten worse, and we have been paying more for less. Seems like it’s popular to have less unlockables, and more things are pushed towards MTX and engagement hoping to keep you spending.
There are still some great games that don’t do that, but they are getting to become the exception instead of the norm. I find myself even missing the season pass model because it seemed like they told you what you were paying for and most times you could expect it within a year.
The games take longer to make, the teams are bigger, and it doesn’t automatically mean the games are getting better. People complain about the side quests and padding , but I would prefer the game to have content especially after a long development time.
I bought Suicide Squad and Hell Divers 2, and I got way more enjoyment out of one over the other, and I’m not even that big of a fan of shooters.
thegame983
Member
We do. It's called ps+.
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
I think because we are on a gaming website, perhaps? I’m pissed everyday that no matter how much I bring in that costs for goods and services continue to rise. My insurance for auto has went above a grand a month for my vehicles, medical bills have skyrocketed causing my premiums to raise for our health insurance, food is just ridiculous as I’m spending about 900 for a family of five that just a few years ago cost around 350, educational costs, heating and air have doubled with natural gas doubling and in some states tripling according to their website, oil prices will raise even more soon when we change over to warm weather and the refineries used will be more expensive. Rent has just went to outer space and home prices are crazy and my wife and I buy homes and rent them. With the interest rates as they are a 100.000 dollar home has the same payment my 400k home has that I bought in 2006, which makes me have to have higher rent to cover insurance that went up, maintenance that went up per hour, the actual payment, etc.
Folks are plenty angry at what we are witnessing, however, unlike gaming we need food, electricity, etc.
yet_another_alt
Member
Not
My
Problem
My
Problem
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
Yes I’ve noticed this, also. I have gamed on my kids account since 2010ish and he has Mortal Kombat 1 as it is a family tradition that all 5 of us play the story together and take turns, since I believe Mortal Kombat 9? Is that the restart?
Anyway, he was on the other day and I seen prices for costumes and what not. I was blown away by it costing 10 or more dollars.
That is 15 percent or more depending on the price of the actual game cost for just 1 costume. What in the actual hell.
Also, can someone tell me there about about what it cost one of these developers to make a digital costume, or weapon, or something they sell for ridiculous amounts of money?
Kokoloko85
Member
Considering most Nintendo and Playstation games have made big profits ( except games like destruction all stars ). I dont think so.
These big ceo's need to take pay cuts
These big ceo's need to take pay cuts
UnravelKatharsis
Member
Talk about a surefire way of killing our hobby faster than it would die on its own.
UnravelKatharsis
Member
Why do economies of scale never matter to people? According to Google just under 50 million SNES consoles we're sold with switch sitting at close to 140 million right now. That's why your games cost what they do. The audience is larger, therefore the potential is there for more games to be sold. Smaller margin higher volume. If the audience had stayed stagnant from 1995 to today you would surely be seeing the costs you so desperately want to pay.
Just like taxes, you're more than welcome to send extra money to the devs of your game. I assure you they won't turn it away.
AngelMuffin
Member
The gaming market is exponentially larger than it was in the 80s & most of the 90s. A game selling a million copies back in the NES & SNES era was a big deal. Now, you have games selling jn the 10s of millions due to the market being so so much larger.
Make better games and do a better job of managing your resources. You done see a company like Nintendo laying of 100s of employees. Giving these company’s more money arbitrarily will not fix anything. They’ll just misuse or mismanage it, like Microsoft and Sony have done.
balls of snow
Member
The industry did this to themselves. Now a majority of players just wanna be in the black hole of a small number of gaas games. Who knew creating forever games will make people play it..forever.
So yeah,
So yeah,
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aclar00
Member
Another thing wrong with this take is that companies are often make great, if not record breaking profits....the problem, however, lies in publically traded companies who are beholden to investers...and once profits go up, they have to continue to feed the insatiable beast more and more...which is where MTX and GaaS comes in.
In short, to us, these fuckers make a great amount of money, much more than they "need" to be...but that have to feed the beast.
In short, to us, these fuckers make a great amount of money, much more than they "need" to be...but that have to feed the beast.
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FinalBossWithTheMostPower
Member
Say what you will, but games like RDR2, GTA6, Baldur's Gate 3, Cyberpunk and TOTK are experiences worth way more than the currenr price of entry.
Who wants to pay more for ANYTHING?
No one.
But I am willing to pay more for any game on par with the aforementioned titles, better yet, upsale me on a sick ass collector's edition.
Who wants to pay more for ANYTHING?
No one.
But I am willing to pay more for any game on par with the aforementioned titles, better yet, upsale me on a sick ass collector's edition.
Two of the higher profile games so far in 2024 - Palworld ($30)and Helldivers 2 ($40)- combined for retail for approximately the price of the base edition of AAAA Skull and Bones and Suicide Squad ($70). So far I've spent more time in the mid tier AA/Indie games this year than ever before.
Instead of doubling down and paying more for AAAA, I'm more inclined to spend time at the less risk adverse AA/Indie space.
The weird thing is, AAA back in the day seems like what AA is now - smaller-ish teams prototyping and building games that they themselves wanted to play.
Instead of doubling down and paying more for AAAA, I'm more inclined to spend time at the less risk adverse AA/Indie space.
The weird thing is, AAA back in the day seems like what AA is now - smaller-ish teams prototyping and building games that they themselves wanted to play.
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balls of snow
Member
You support them by buying multiple copies. I did for cdpr and larian. Hell im about to double dip on Banishers when the steamsale comes. Pricing them out of casuals wallet will doomed the industry.
This.
FinalBossWithTheMostPower
Member
Nintendo is the only thing I'll double dip on.
Pricing is all about what the consumer is willing to bear.
I'd rather pay $70 for a 70 to 100 hour experience than $11 dollars for an hour at the movies.
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phant0m
Member
You pay a grand a MONTH for car insurance?? Like in USD/CDN/EUR/GBP?
Hoddi
Member
Games have already increased by 33% here in Euroland and the only effect it had on me is that I buy fewer games. There's such a massive oversupply of games to choose from and especially now that 10 year old games don't really look any different. This isn't like the 1990s where a decently large game library might only be 20 games or something.
I don't see a solution to this except to scale back the budgets. There's already hundreds of games that I want to play that I simply don't have the time for.
I don't see a solution to this except to scale back the budgets. There's already hundreds of games that I want to play that I simply don't have the time for.
The higher volume is also because games are relatively cheap nowadays. A game that sells 10M copies at €80 might only sell half of that at €120.
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
USD. My PHEV Jeep is about 275 a month, my challenger is a little more, my wife’s BMW, my Dodge Ram. It’s a tad over a grand, yes. Last year it was a tad short of 800 and just 2 years ago around 720ish.
MarkMe2525
Member
The increased profits would just go to board, execs, and shareholders. Many of times when these layoffs happen, it's because someone calculated they could get a similar output for with "x" number of employees less than they currently have on payroll. These people wouldn't be staying around, even if profit margins were higher. Shrewd business moves like these pay these CEO's and exec teams bonuses.
thegame983
Member
They'll take your money and still let people go.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Never mind $69.
Games in Canada are $90 or $95. Add 13% tax where I live and you break $100.
I havent paid full price for a game for ages. Any recent games bought at launch I split with my buddy 50/50 with home sharing. But in terms of me buying a full priced game solo, who knows when the past time I did. Probably 10 years ago. And back then I tried doing as many buy 2 get 1 free Amazon or Best Buy E3 promos.
As I've said here and there on GAF, no point buying games right away for full price. Most games go on deal fast, and unless someone is itching to jump in during launch for sake of joining online sports leagues or needing to play early to get good at MP games and learn the maps asap, forget it. I'm not paying $100 CDN. It's not even about affordability. It's about principal and not getting ripped off when a deal will surface next month.
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Zannegan
Member
AAA game dev may well be unsustainable, but game prices are not the reason.
AAA assets and animations need to be at such a level that games now require a ridiculous amount of time and manpower ro put together. Paying that many people for that long has made budgets so incredibly bloated that every game is a do or die proposition.
Charging more per game won't solve the issue. Didn't the jump to $70 show that people just spent the same on fewer gamez? If anything, a larger jump will only worsen the problem as there will be more competition than ever and more pressure to justify the purchase price with the shiniest and the newest.
Rather than increase the price, they need to find ways to reduce the budget, either through outsourcing (Ubisoft), AI, or a major shift in the way studios map out game projects.
AAA assets and animations need to be at such a level that games now require a ridiculous amount of time and manpower ro put together. Paying that many people for that long has made budgets so incredibly bloated that every game is a do or die proposition.
Charging more per game won't solve the issue. Didn't the jump to $70 show that people just spent the same on fewer gamez? If anything, a larger jump will only worsen the problem as there will be more competition than ever and more pressure to justify the purchase price with the shiniest and the newest.
Rather than increase the price, they need to find ways to reduce the budget, either through outsourcing (Ubisoft), AI, or a major shift in the way studios map out game projects.
CanUKlehead
Member
I let you Day One FOMO purchasers sustain my hobby; in the mid 2010s, I decided to bow out of buying games day one. Unsustainable for myself. Allah bless all you paying more for day one or buying special editions to pay even more, as I can't anymore.
Overall, it's a hobby for me, I adjust my expectations and buying practices, this isn't food or mortgage.
Overall, it's a hobby for me, I adjust my expectations and buying practices, this isn't food or mortgage.
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Dirk Benedict
Member
The laugh emoji is your most accumulated reaction. Think on that.
iHaunter
Member
You're aware that most of these companies are making RECORD profits right?
Edgelord79
Gold Member
I’ll keep paying as little as possible for the most as possible. I don’t know anyone in real life who wants to pay more for something if they can get it for less.
ProtoByte
Member
The posts in this thread are nothing short of disappointing. Here I was thinking that people finally got a clue from that insomniac leak.
Lies and half truths about "entrance fees", droning falsehoods about how games are somehow less complete or offer less today compared to the 90s, and a real display of Dunning-Kruger effect commentary on how business works and should work... it's all so immature. OP is on the right track, and for whatever reason people aren't able to admit it to themselves. So much for being enthusiasts.
Here's the thing: beyond inflation, which pegs 60 '05 at 90 big ones today, the games that you're buying today are of higher value in any mathematically discerned metric. They cost way more to make, spend more time in the oven, have way more going on in every facet, and more people want them than ever before.
Industries, especially high investment and high risk ones like gaming need a significant profit motive to exist in significant capacity. Some people have said they don't care about the businesses or layoffs, but I don't accept those statements on a general scale given how much hysteria there have been about layoffs - now and in the past. Where the same people who say the businesses should handle their spending somehow think that keeping employees is a non-expense, or that executives making 8 figures a year, mostly in stock, is the material difference between slim margins or losses and huge profits.
The industry's mistake was not forcing people to accept price increases for 15 years and trying to pussyfoot around if with all sorts of tactics most of a decade back at this point.
Making more money than is "needed" is the only reason you have this medium at all. The profit incentive is what drives medicine forward. How you don't understand that the viability of games as a business is entirely predicated on that is beyond me. And gaming is only viable as a business. Make no mistake.
Lies and half truths about "entrance fees", droning falsehoods about how games are somehow less complete or offer less today compared to the 90s, and a real display of Dunning-Kruger effect commentary on how business works and should work... it's all so immature. OP is on the right track, and for whatever reason people aren't able to admit it to themselves. So much for being enthusiasts.
Here's the thing: beyond inflation, which pegs 60 '05 at 90 big ones today, the games that you're buying today are of higher value in any mathematically discerned metric. They cost way more to make, spend more time in the oven, have way more going on in every facet, and more people want them than ever before.
Industries, especially high investment and high risk ones like gaming need a significant profit motive to exist in significant capacity. Some people have said they don't care about the businesses or layoffs, but I don't accept those statements on a general scale given how much hysteria there have been about layoffs - now and in the past. Where the same people who say the businesses should handle their spending somehow think that keeping employees is a non-expense, or that executives making 8 figures a year, mostly in stock, is the material difference between slim margins or losses and huge profits.
The industry's mistake was not forcing people to accept price increases for 15 years and trying to pussyfoot around if with all sorts of tactics most of a decade back at this point.
I guarantee that you have not studied a single balance sheet to say this stuff. You certainly don't understand business the way you think you do.Another thing wrong with this take is that companies are often make great, if not record breaking profits....the problem, however, lies in publically traded companies who are beholden to investers...and once profits go up, they have to continue to feed the insatiable beast more and more...which is where MTX and GaaS comes in.
In short, to us, these fuckers make a great amount of money, much more than they "need" to be...but that have to feed the beast.
Making more money than is "needed" is the only reason you have this medium at all. The profit incentive is what drives medicine forward. How you don't understand that the viability of games as a business is entirely predicated on that is beyond me. And gaming is only viable as a business. Make no mistake.
ResilientBanana
Member
Just make games people truely want to play in an efficient manner.
hemo memo
Gold Member
Toons
Member
Let’s put it this way, Unicorn Overlord demo is longer and has more content than COD campaign but COD campaign cost more money to make……
Do ppl still buy cod for the story???
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
If not then those devs are wasting lot of money and resources making them which barely lasts 5 hours.
naguanatak
Member
Slash the earnings of managers, ceo's and all the higher ups, give a third of it to the developers (the people who...actually make the game, you know) another third to keep the company afloat and leave the last third of it to these greedy mothefuckers and they can still sustain a luxurious lifestyle.
Next you tell me mtx, season passes and other bullshit money grabs are what's needed to keep the industry alive. Always look where the money is going and you can usually find someone who benefits without being needed. That someone almost always makes decisions not for the product or the company, but for himself (or the shareholders).
Next you tell me mtx, season passes and other bullshit money grabs are what's needed to keep the industry alive. Always look where the money is going and you can usually find someone who benefits without being needed. That someone almost always makes decisions not for the product or the company, but for himself (or the shareholders).
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Crayon
Member
I was just thinking about how Tekken was $100 game right off the bat for me and will end up more like $200 when the rest of the season passes come out. Worth it. Thank God it's cross play so I don't have to do that twice.
Anyway, games cost enough to buy. The level of production is too ambitious, though. AAA needs to change. Save the massive budgets for gazillion sellers like gta.
Think of games with lower budgets but still $70. Returnal, stellar blade, Tekken 8, bg3, ac6. Do God of war and Spider-Man make them look like shit? Of course not. Make a game that doesn't need to sell 10m to break even for Christ sakes. And one you could have a sequel in the same time it takes to make a $200m aaa game.
Anyway, games cost enough to buy. The level of production is too ambitious, though. AAA needs to change. Save the massive budgets for gazillion sellers like gta.
Think of games with lower budgets but still $70. Returnal, stellar blade, Tekken 8, bg3, ac6. Do God of war and Spider-Man make them look like shit? Of course not. Make a game that doesn't need to sell 10m to break even for Christ sakes. And one you could have a sequel in the same time it takes to make a $200m aaa game.
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
They are also infinitely less fun.