• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

'We don't have shareholders, but we also don't think about them' — Larian Studios speak out against a brutal industry climate on stage at DICE Awards

Thick Thighs Save Lives

Thick Thighs Save Lives

Gold Member
"Building games that are actually fun is going to make you the most money, that's it."
Click to expand...
sHhUXCjg6sEYVqEVLzAkvd-650-80.png.webp

Baldur's Gate 3 walked away from the DICE Awards with another handful of trophies: Outstanding Achievement in Story, RPG of the Year, Outstanding Achievement in Game Design, Outstanding Achievement in Game Direction, and Game of the Year—adding to an already massive list of well-deserved accolades.

Its developers, however, devoted much of their speech time to the state of the games industry—which, if you've been paying any sort of attention, has been dire for devs. 2023 was a horrible year for games industry layoffs—and if patterns continue, 2024 could be even worse, with over 16,000 developers losing their jobs since January of last year.
Click to expand...
"We're very lucky," says Michael Douse, the director of publishing for the studio. "We've had a lot of stage time—others are not so lucky. This is a really human industry, and we're really bad sometimes at showing developers what they're worth … it's kinda the elephant in the room, especially surrounded by all this opulence.

"Many, many people were let go at the start of this year. I want you to know that you are all talented, and that you matter, and that you are the future of this industry. Don't let that flame be extinguished by our collective mistakes … we will persevere as an industry."

Larian Studios' head of production David Walgrave also took to the microphone to share a few words. "We ask you to pay one price only for the game, and that's it—you can own it for the rest of your life. We don't have shareholders, but we also don't think about them. There's an expression in Dutch—'honesty lasts longest', or something."
Click to expand...
That reads to me like a dig at Embracer Group's recent comments. In a gaudy bit of saying the quiet part out loud, Embracer remarked that its "overruling principle is to always maximize shareholder value in any given situation" in a financial report. This was in the wake of laying off 1,400 employees over six months in 2023. A failure to read the room, even if it's patently true.

"We don't make decisions where we think 'this could make us the most money'," Walgrave continues. "In the long run, building a community, building a playerbase, building games that are actually fun is going to make you the most money, that's it."
Click to expand...
Larian Studios does technically have a single shareholder in Tencent—which owns around 30% of the company. However, an important piece of context is that Tencent appears to own what's called a "preference" share, meaning that Tencent doesn't have voting rights when it comes to Larian's decision making. The rest of the company belongs to CEO and Founder Swen Vincke and his wife.

I'm noting this more for clarifications' sake, rather than to disagree with anything Walgrave said—when we think of the influence shareholders typically have on large gaming companies and publishers, Larian Studios is under no obligation to kiss the ring.
Click to expand...
www.pcgamer.com

'We don't have shareholders, but we also don't think about them,' Larian Studios uses its stage time at the DICE Awards to speak out against a brutal industry climate

"Building games that are actually fun is going to make you the most money, that's it."
www.pcgamer.com www.pcgamer.com
 
Bombolone

Bombolone

Gold Member
The industry is definitely going through a shift atm.
These free developers, if they choose to continue in game dev, will need some place to work.
I think a cool scenario would be the rise of AA games again.
With A.I / better tools. Smaller teams will be able to create experiences faster and easier than ever. A smart investor(s) would see the potential in 5 or so years.
The talent is there.
Leave the AAA mega corps to wither away (talent makes great games) and from the ashes, Game Industry 3.0.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
They have dug their own grave tbh. They take forever to make games nowadays. They let their scope and budget balloon to the point where they have to overhire to ship projects that are 2-3 years over time and over budget.

Make smaller games and have better pre-production timelines so when you ship one game, the other one can start right away. But no, they spend years in pre-production prototyping while others just sit there holding their dicks. If they were invaluable and making shit that was coming out in the next year, year and a half, no CEO in his right mind would be laying them off. Much easier to lay off people today then start hiring again 2-3 years down the road to finish up the game.
 
Hero of Spielberg

Hero of Spielberg

Member
I’m a huge crpg fan and Larian have essentially resurrected the genre, actually making it more popular than it’s ever been I think (numbers wise). I think they have a challenge ahead of them though. The market can be very fickle.
 
Vlodril

Vlodril

Member
SlimySnake said:
They have dug their own grave tbh. They take forever to make games nowadays. They let their scope and budget balloon to the point where they have to overhire to ship projects that are 2-3 years over time and over budget.

Make smaller games and have better pre-production timelines so when you ship one game, the other one can start right away. But no, they spend years in pre-production prototyping while others just sit there holding their dicks. If they were invaluable and making shit that was coming out in the next year, year and a half, no CEO in his right mind would be laying them off. Much easier to lay off people today then start hiring again 2-3 years down the road to finish up the game.
Click to expand...

That's kinda bullshit though. People say they want AA games but even in AAA with huge production values if anything is even a bit off (puddlegate etc) everyone is out with a torch.

Everybody said the new prince of persia is great and a breath of fresh air from Ubisoft but no one bought it (in relative terms of course). Yet people will buy the next assassins creed which is the game game they have made for the last 15 years and it will make 10+ million.

Pretending otherwise is not helping anyone. If Naughty Dog released a game in the caliber of Banishers of Eden for example (which seems like a good game) people would scream from the rooftops. There are expectations set and not sure what the devs can do about it.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Vlodril said:
That's kinda bullshit though. People say they want AA games but even in AAA with huge production values if anything is even a bit off (puddlegate etc) everyone is out with a torch.

Everybody said the new prince of persia is great and a breath of fresh air from Ubisoft but no one bought it (in relative terms of course). Yet people will buy the next assassins creed which is the game game they have made for the last 15 years and it will make 10+ million.

Pretending otherwise is not helping anyone. If Naughty Dog released a game in the caliber of Banishers of Eden for example (which seems like a good game) people would scream from the rooftops. There are expectations set and not sure what the devs can do about it.
Click to expand...
No one is saying devs need to go back to 2D games. Prince of persia is a $50 2D game. No one buys that stuff unless its from Nintendo.

If ND made a 15 hour game like Uncharted 4 or TLOU1, will people skip it? of course not. Spiderman 2 is half as long as GOW and Horizon. It outsold both.
 
Vlodril

Vlodril

Member
SlimySnake said:
No one is saying devs need to go back to 2D games. Prince of persia is a $50 2D game. No one buys that stuff unless its from Nintendo.

If ND made a 15 hour game like Uncharted 4 or TLOU1, will people skip it? of course not. Spiderman 2 is half as long as GOW and Horizon. It outsold both.
Click to expand...

But a 15 hour game like uncharted 4 would still cost 100's of millions.
 
JordiENP

JordiENP

Member
Love when these kind of developers get their ego inflated and show their fake "we are here for the player" to then fail miserably and spend 2 years trying to save the company with endless money, updates and Netflix animes.
 
Last edited:
Bombolone

Bombolone

Gold Member
Vlodril said:
That's kinda bullshit though. People say they want AA games but even in AAA with huge production values if anything is even a bit off (puddlegate etc) everyone is out with a torch.

Everybody said the new prince of persia is great and a breath of fresh air from Ubisoft but no one bought it (in relative terms of course). Yet people will buy the next assassins creed which is the game game they have made for the last 15 years and it will make 10+ million.

Pretending otherwise is not helping anyone. If Naughty Dog released a game in the caliber of Banishers of Eden for example (which seems like a good game) people would scream from the rooftops. There are expectations set and not sure what the devs can do about it.
Click to expand...

I believe SlimySnake is still correct. They dug their own grave.
When gaming went mainstream (AAA). It was/is graphics that took priority. Graphics, Voice Acting, Motion Capture. Trailer, CG trailers ‘sell’ games. That’s how they are marketed.
I think it’s safe to say that anything that reaches mainstream (pop culture) is bound to experience a dulling of the edges.
(Nintendo is an outlier)

The industry trained itself to pixel count, to look for pretty graphics. For that movie like experience…
They (industry) even feel 80+ rpgs ‘need’ full VA/animation etc to be viable.
You can either start selling base games for $120+ dollars (good luck) or look for other ways. Micro transactions, GAAS etc.

The industry as it functions atm can’t sustain itself and the market will correct, but there will be winners and losers.

I get what you’re saying about people grabbing that Assassins Creed over PoP, but again, you (industry) showed the masses something as ‘pretty’ as Spider-Man/TLOU/GT/Forza/Uncharted… how do you take that back?
You have to retrain your target audience? I don’t know…
I’m very curious to see how Publishers & Developers tackle this problem in the coming years.
 
Vlodril

Vlodril

Member
Bombolone said:
I believe SlimySnake is still correct. They dug their own grave.
When gaming went mainstream (AAA). It was/is graphics that took priority. Graphics, Voice Acting, Motion Capture. Trailer, CG trailers ‘sell’ games. That’s how they are marketed.
I think it’s safe to say that anything that reaches mainstream (pop culture) is bound to experience a dulling of the edges.
(Nintendo is an outlier)

The industry trained itself to pixel count, to look for pretty graphics. For that movie like experience…
They (industry) even feel 80+ rpgs ‘need’ full VA/animation etc to be viable.
You can either start selling base games for $120+ dollars (good luck) or look for other ways. Micro transactions, GAAS etc.

The industry as it functions atm can’t sustain itself and the market will correct, but there will be winners and losers.

I get what you’re saying about people grabbing that Assassins Creed over PoP, but again, you (industry) showed the masses something as ‘pretty’ as Spider-Man/TLOU/GT/Forza/Uncharted… how do you take that back?
You have to retrain your target audience? I don’t know…
I’m very curious to see how Publishers & Developers tackle this problem in the coming years.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree. They did dig their own grave but i am not sure how they c an get out of it now. Suddenly dropping the quality of games does not seem like something feasible to me.
 
E

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Vlodril said:
I don't disagree. They did dig their own grave but i am not sure how they c an get out of it now. Suddenly dropping the quality of games does not seem like something feasible to me.
Click to expand...
Not dropping quality, just keeping it more or less the same while experimenting in other directions. This is exactly what Nintendo did with the DS and the Wii. And the western industry completely failed to understand, even when Nintendo cited these exact reasons for pivoting.
 
Phase

Phase

Member
Bombolone said:
The industry is definitely going through a shift atm.
These free developers, if they choose to continue in game dev, will need some place to work.
I think a cool scenario would be the rise of AA games again.
With A.I / better tools. Smaller teams will be able to create experiences faster and easier than ever. A smart investor(s) would see the potential in 5 or so years.
The talent is there.
Leave the AAA mega corps to wither away (talent makes great games) and from the ashes, Game Industry 3.0.
Click to expand...
It's already happening. AAA studios keep shooting themselves in the foot, keeping the door wide open for smaller studios that are releasing some bangers lately. Hope the wave becomes a tsunami!
 
bitbydeath

bitbydeath

Member
Bombolone said:
I believe SlimySnake is still correct. They dug their own grave.
When gaming went mainstream (AAA). It was/is graphics that took priority. Graphics, Voice Acting, Motion Capture. Trailer, CG trailers ‘sell’ games. That’s how they are marketed.
I think it’s safe to say that anything that reaches mainstream (pop culture) is bound to experience a dulling of the edges.
(Nintendo is an outlier)

The industry trained itself to pixel count, to look for pretty graphics. For that movie like experience…
They (industry) even feel 80+ rpgs ‘need’ full VA/animation etc to be viable.
You can either start selling base games for $120+ dollars (good luck) or look for other ways. Micro transactions, GAAS etc.

The industry as it functions atm can’t sustain itself and the market will correct, but there will be winners and losers.

I get what you’re saying about people grabbing that Assassins Creed over PoP, but again, you (industry) showed the masses something as ‘pretty’ as Spider-Man/TLOU/GT/Forza/Uncharted… how do you take that back?
You have to retrain your target audience? I don’t know…
I’m very curious to see how Publishers & Developers tackle this problem in the coming years.
Click to expand...
I don’t agree that Nintendo is an outlier, they may have weaker hardware but their games are still AAA in quality. Quality isn’t all about realism, it’s the overall art direction, plus features and gameplay.
 
Bombolone

Bombolone

Gold Member
bitbydeath said:
I don’t agree that Nintendo is an outlier, they may have weaker hardware but their games are still AAA in quality. Quality isn’t all about realism, it’s the overall art direction, plus features and gameplay.
Click to expand...
Nintendo is AAA. Sorry, what I mean is Nintendo has trained their base to expect certain things and has found a business model that is sustainable. Nobody can doubt their quality of output. They don’t need 4K, ray tracing and all the bells and whistles. The other guys went for cutting edge graphics in comparison. Two different approaches to ‘modern gaming’ (if I can use that in replace of AAA)
They are an outlier in the fact that nobody expects of them what they expect of Sony, Microsoft, EA, Rockstar etc.
I didn’t mean to diminish Nintendo at all in that comment.

You hit the nail on the head. Quality isn’t about realism or cutting edge, but the other guys tied themselves to it.
 
Last edited:
Rat Rage

Rat Rage

Member
I give them a couple of good games, until capitalism devours them like most of the other studios.

But hey, at least their next 2 games are very likely going to be really good. Probably it's all gonna go downhill after the 3rd.
 
ProtoByte

ProtoByte

Member
SlimySnake said:
No one is saying devs need to go back to 2D games. Prince of persia is a $50 2D game. No one buys that stuff unless its from Nintendo.

If ND made a 15 hour game like Uncharted 4 or TLOU1, will people skip it? of course not. Spiderman 2 is half as long as GOW and Horizon. It outsold both.
Click to expand...
It also cost about 50% more than both. And it's fucking Spider-Man.

Bombolone said:
Nintendo is AAA. Sorry, what I mean is Nintendo has trained their base to expect certain things and has found a business model that is sustainable. Nobody can doubt their quality of output. They don’t need 4K, ray tracing and all the bells and whistles. The other guys went for cutting edge graphics in comparison. Two different approaches to ‘modern gaming’ (if I can use that in replace of AAA)
They are an outlier in the fact that nobody expects of them what they expect of Sony, Microsoft, EA, Rockstar etc.
I didn’t mean to diminish Nintendo at all in that comment.

You hit the nail on the head. Quality isn’t about realism or cutting edge, but the other guys tied themselves to it.
Click to expand...
They apparently don't need new IP or fully polished games either. They've trained their audience to accept the same IP with very little deviation (not for 3 or 4 installments, but for decades) at lower technical prowess at premium prices.

Nintendo is not more valuable because they refuse to get with the technological times, and have a supermajority Japanese workforce (that hasn't fully shed its handheld game orientation, and can't compete with the scope and scale of their other domestic contemporaries, let alone devs in the west) that works for weak yen when their products get paid for in dollars.
 
ProtoByte

ProtoByte

Member
Topher said:
The article addresses that....

"However, an important piece of context is that Tencent appears to own what's called a "preference" share, meaning that Tencent doesn't have voting rights when it comes to Larian's decision making. "
Click to expand...
That's all well and good for Larian. Most studios of scale do not and cannot exist under that structure. Which I'm sure is far more complicated than is made out to be by Larian in their moment of glee now.
 
CLW

CLW

Member
I mean why would you think of something non-existent like a company with no shareholders shareholders unless.......


Haley Joel Osment Quote GIF by Top 100 Movie Quotes of All Time
 
KXVXII9X

KXVXII9X

Member
Vlodril said:
That's kinda bullshit though. People say they want AA games but even in AAA with huge production values if anything is even a bit off (puddlegate etc) everyone is out with a torch.

Everybody said the new prince of persia is great and a breath of fresh air from Ubisoft but no one bought it (in relative terms of course). Yet people will buy the next assassins creed which is the game game they have made for the last 15 years and it will make 10+ million.

Pretending otherwise is not helping anyone. If Naughty Dog released a game in the caliber of Banishers of Eden for example (which seems like a good game) people would scream from the rooftops. There are expectations set and not sure what the devs can do about it.
Click to expand...
People even on here call games like HiFi Rush shovelware and it is frustrating watching how low the Prince of Persia sales are while people constantly ask for Ubisoft to make something different with quality. Hope Helldivers continues to do well.
 
StreetsofBeige

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Vlodril said:
That's kinda bullshit though. People say they want AA games but even in AAA with huge production values if anything is even a bit off (puddlegate etc) everyone is out with a torch.

Everybody said the new prince of persia is great and a breath of fresh air from Ubisoft but no one bought it (in relative terms of course). Yet people will buy the next assassins creed which is the game game they have made for the last 15 years and it will make 10+ million.

Pretending otherwise is not helping anyone. If Naughty Dog released a game in the caliber of Banishers of Eden for example (which seems like a good game) people would scream from the rooftops. There are expectations set and not sure what the devs can do about it.
Click to expand...
KXVXII9X said:
People even on here call games like HiFi Rush shovelware and it is frustrating watching how low the Prince of Persia sales are while people constantly ask for Ubisoft to make something different with quality. Hope Helldivers continues to do well.
Click to expand...
I think some of hypocrisy comes from gamers enjoying buying existing franchises liking COD, Ass Creed, FIFA, but saying they want other kinds of games is due to not necessarily wanting something totally different.

But take a good existing franchise and improve on it. And if there isn't something out there that looks better, then they'll just keep playing the existing game.

I dont care how good or innovative a new 2D PoP Metroidvania or High on Life shooter are. Nobody asked for a PoP game to be a $70 CDN metroid game, or a game that's one part shooter, one part adults only cussing, and one part crazy cartoony graphics.

No doubt there's expectations. Nobody would expect Bethesda to make an NBA game or Crystal Dynamics to make a Fortnite kind of game. They'd probably bomb unless they were awesome because there's still a market for those games. But I dont see any gamers amped up on a 2D PoP or High on Life game. Like any company, customers expect certain things from them.
 
Last edited:
Sushi_Combo

Sushi_Combo

Member
"We don't have shareholders...until we do" - Microsoft acquires Larian Studios

But it's seriously nice to hear this from a developer delivering solid games.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Baldur's Gate 3 'Isn't Going to be on Game Pass', Insists Larian Boss; "We made a big game, so I think there's a fair price to be paid for that."
2 3 4 5
211
11K
Xenon replied
Larian founder Swen Vincke wants more studios to make CRPGs after Baldur's Gate 3's success
Game Dev 2
63
3K
adamsapple replied
Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast have "about 40" video game projects in the works | Hasbro is looking to work with Larian again
News Game Dev
4
452
ProtoByte replied
Owlcat founder breaks down RPG budgets and Larian’s impact on genre: “We can’t invest $200 million to make BG3”
Game Dev
49
2K
Hudo replied
Embracer say their restructure is over, but it's "too early" to start acquiring studios again
News Business
27
1K
Hudo replied
Top Bottom