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[EN250]

And what are the non-fanboys going to buy? An Asus Rog Ally?

Nothing, because they have a preferred device that works excellent, that being a PC or a Console, no this gaming handheld fad that's going on right now, just because Nintendo managed to pull it off, doesn't mean it can be replicated again, we saw this before with the waggle-waggle motion control fad of the 7th gen, it was nice for a couple of years, then people moved on, the only one having a chance of moderate success is the Deck and just for the headstart it had to get to the market first for PCMR, it won't sell tens of millions, but it'll have its niche, that's about it

 

[viveks86]

All this talk about the PS6 portable has convinced me to get one when it's out. And I hate portables. Damn you all!

 

[StreetsofBeige]

As for a PS portable, it all comes down to if a gamer wants to spend let's say $500 to play BC downports. Lets face it, take a look at Vita and PSVR and youre not going to get many dedicated first party games for it. I dont see Sony making PS portable only games. At best, you might get a couple.

So will gamers pay a lot of money to play PS4/PS5-ish games lying on a couch or on a bus, similar to a Switch, Steamdeck or smartphone gamer? Who knows. I dont see it flying though.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

In my eyes, it goes one of two ways:

1. They gimp the entire PS6 generation so the hand-held is a pocket PS6. That makes the hand-held pretty attractive, but limits the entire industry to whatever the hand-held can run.
2. They release it as its own machine with limited PS6 compatibility, but it'll be pretty unattractive because why buy a limited Sony handheld when I can buy a PC handheld and play their games on PC anyway?

It's the same problem I commented about Xbox's handheld. If it's a PC that can run Xbox games in my hand? Instant buy. If its a pocket Series S, I don't see the value. If I buy a PC handheld, like the Steam Deck, I can use it as a handheld to play everything on Steam, Epic, and GOG. I can also use it to play emulator games, use it as a tablet, dock it to a monitor and use it as a PC, dock it to a TV and use it as a media player - sky's the limit. If I buy a console handheld that is locked down, that decreases what the device can do enormously, but it won't drop the price enough to make up for it. Do I buy a Steam Deck 2 for USD$599 or a PlayStation Portable 3 for $549? The choice is pretty clear.

If the portable really is .5 times the power of a PS5 then I think it will be fine. Thats plenty of power for 720p - 1080p resolution PS5 games (ML can do the rest). I also, suspect that there will be a good number of cross gen games the first few years so it should be able to handle them. Plus, if Sony can iron out the thing about playing your entire game library via cloud, and allow direct connect PS6 compatibility, I would be happy. That would make it perfect for my use case.

 

[Ebrietas]

Imagine thinking that making an additional ps5 hardware variant (especially one that could increase sales in Japan) is somehow a dumb idea.

Sony's hardware strategy is probably the only thing they get right these days.

 

[Aaravos]

As for a PS portable, it all comes down to if a gamer wants to spend let's say $500 to play BC downports. Lets face it, take a look at Vita and PSVR and youre not going to get many dedicated first party games for it. I dont see Sony making PS portable only games. At best, you might get a couple.

So will gamers pay a lot of money to play PS4/PS5-ish games lying on a couch or on a bus, similar to a Switch, Steamdeck or smartphone gamer? Who knows. I dont see it flying though.

the rumours are it's going to play all ps6 games, so potentially an extreme series x/s situation little concerned about that to be honest, however I think cross gen gonn last well into next gen

 

[clappedcheeks]

I can see a PS handheld being successful if they implement crossbuy with the bigger console.

Though of course that eats into their profit margins from folks who own the console and the handheld, if the device is subsidized.

Surely the point of the handheld is to share the library with its big brother and the ps5, depending on the capabilities of the chipset. The only reason for cross buy is if the os is entirely different and therefore incompatible with the ps4/5/6. It would be a boneheaded move to create a handheld in a similar vein to the vita where the os wasn't compatible and a different version of the game has to be created. I know these corps make crap decisions sometimes but surely they would have learned from past mistakes with the vita.

 

[Ozriel]

Surely the point of the handheld is to share the library with its big brother and the ps5, depending on the capabilities of the chipset. The only reason for cross buy is if the os is entirely different and therefore incompatible with the ps4/5/6. It would be a boneheaded move to create a handheld in a similar vein to the vita where the os wasn't compatible and a different version of the game has to be created. I know these corps make crap decisions sometimes but surely they would have learned from past mistakes with the vita.

Sorry, you're right. 'Crossbuy' was the wrong term to use. I meant a unified library where purchases of any game just worked across both devices, just as you've described.

Though that would mean a developer mandate that devs would have to make all their games compatible with the lower powered handheld as a prerequisite to publish on PS5.

 

[clappedcheeks]

Sorry, you're right. 'Crossbuy' was the wrong term to use. I meant a unified library where purchases of any game just worked across both devices, just as you've described.

Though that would mean a developer mandate that devs would have to make all their games compatible with the lower powered handheld as a prerequisite to publish on PS5.

No worries. My only concern would be the scope of future games being limited by a handheld. If there is sufficient cpu horsepower and memory bandwidth I'm assuming it wouldn't be a problem. Am I correct in thinking that graphics "could" be more scalable if there's enough cpu and memory shunting capabilities? That way the scope of the games will not suffer, just the eye candy?

 

[KeplerL2]

No worries. My only concern would be the scope of future games being limited by a handheld. If there is sufficient cpu horsepower and memory bandwidth I'm assuming it wouldn't be a problem. Am I correct in thinking that graphics "could" be more scalable if there's enough cpu and memory shunting capabilities? That way the scope of the games will not suffer, just the eye candy?

It's all about having reasonable framerate and resolution targets. The handheld is around half the CPU power and ~1/5 the memory bandwidth and GPU TFlops of the Console, if a game is designed to run at 4K60 on the PS6 then that will scale nicely to a 1080p30 game for the handheld.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Looks under powered as fuck. 160w tgp? What? We are targeting peasant gamers?

Isn't that what console gamers are? As much power as possible with a small amount of money?

 

[Tobimacoss]

It's all about having reasonable framerate and resolution targets. The handheld is around half the CPU power and ~1/5 the memory bandwidth and GPU TFlops of the Console, if a game is designed to run at 4K60 on the PS6 then that will scale nicely to a 1080p30 game for the handheld.

4k/120 and 1080/120 should be the targets IMO. Especially for Magnus and it's corresponding handheld.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Is the handheld going to be able to dock to the tv?

If it can it's a portable next gen xss. If it can't it is missing the best feature of modern handhelds.

Either way this is bad news(unless you are Nintendo).

 

[Ozriel]

4k/120 and 1080/120 should be the targets IMO. Especially for Magnus and it's corresponding handheld.

Next gen consoles will have ample framegen capabilities built in, so high framerates won't be a concern.

 

[Sethbacca]

Isn't that what console gamers are? As much power as possible with a small amount of money?

You guys are really confusing the ability to spend thousands of dollars on a high end PC with the stupidity of spending thousands of dollars on a high end pc. Many of us console gamers spend our days at desks and just don't feel like spending our nights there. I have a 65" tv and a comfortable couch and just want to game comfortably without breaking the bank to do so.

 

[Loxus]

It's all about having reasonable framerate and resolution targets. The handheld is around half the CPU power and ~1/5 the memory bandwidth and GPU TFlops of the Console, if a game is designed to run at 4K60 on the PS6 then that will scale nicely to a 1080p30 game for the handheld.

Is that 4K60, native or with upscaling?

A next-gen game built at 1080p/60 (higher graphics fidelity and RT/PT) on the PS6 may struggle to be scaled down that far down.

Unless the specs from MLiD is weaker than what you know?

 

[Neo_game]

Exclusives? PS6 won't have exclusives and you expect the handheld to have some?

They would be happy to sell 15M handhelds and +100M PS6 I think. They could see the handheld market as the future. It's the main console market in Japan and it could become that way elsewhere too. Even me I consider buying that handheld instead of a more expensive PS6. If the handheld can play PS6 crossgen games for 5/6 years, that'll be perfect. And it's not like we think Sony are going to make exclusives for PS6, that era is gone.

If PS handheld can play PS6 games then so will PS5 and PS5 Pro. Because according to rumors the target performance of handheld is 0.5x the power of PS5 and PS6 3x the power of PS5.

Switch is largely sold as a hybrid and not a handheld. I wouldn't count it as being part of the handheld market.

Switch has option of being docked but it is literally a handheld. Nintendo audience are different and so are their games. PS handheld can easily handle those games cartoony games

 

[kevboard]

I understand your point, which is a fair point.




But after watching these videos, the amount of resources Sony had to put in to both the PSP and PS Vita has me wondering if they will do it again. They are barely supporting their main console with new games and don't get me started on the PSVR2.

It's a risk vs reward, and devs are the quickest to run away from risks.

it being a portable PS5 would also mean that they'd support the handheld, the PS5 and the PS6 with new games whenever they'd relase a game that was primarily designed for the handheld.

like, say, they make a new Patapon, or a new LocoRoco. those were originally designed for the PSP, as handheld games. now, with a portable PS5, they could still make games like that, and they would be perfect for a handheld... but, there's still every PS5 and PS6 owner that can also buy them. while making games designed for the handheld, they still also deliver new games for their other sytems automatically.

they wouldn't need to split their development nearly as much as with the Vita. they simply would have games that only work on PS6, and games that work on PS5, PS6 and the handheld.
no additional resources needed. especially because we can expect the next cross-gen period to be INSANELY long. like, this gen it already was longer than any time before... I'm surprised Ghost of Yotei doesn't release on PS4 tbh, given that it barely looks like it made any significant technological jumps of any kind.
and next gen, with an even smaller jump in hardware power, I honestly expect PS6 only games to be a rare exception, not the default, even when it comes to first party games. so I don't expect there to be any real issue with dev resouces being taken away by a portable PS5 that's easy to develop for.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Is that 4K60, native or with upscaling?

A next-gen game built at 1080p/60 (higher graphics fidelity and RT/PT) on the PS6 may struggle to be scaled down that far down.

Unless the specs from MLiD is weaker than what you know?

What would it matter? I think ML upscaling will be part of the HW non negotiables for a handheld (to ensure we avoid wasting performance and energy to render at native 1080p on the handheld screen when undocked).

 

[viveks86]

Is 30 fps on a handheld even nice to play? Screen being directly attached to the controller and so close to your face? I don't mind 30 fps on my TV, but the one time I tried it on my phone via streaming, I never wanted to try it again. Would that meet the expectations of steam deck, ROG, Switch players?

 

[kevboard]

Is 30 fps on a handheld even nice to play? Screen being directly attached to the controller and so close to your face? I don't mind 30 fps on my TV, but the one time I tried it on my phone via streaming, I never wanted to try it again. Would that meet the expectations of steam deck, ROG, Switch players?

the smaller the screen, the less jarring 30fps is.
due to the virtue of any given moving element on screen traveling a shorter distance of your field of view, compared to the same moving element doing that on a massive TV, the gaps in motion are minimised and therefore look smoother.

of course if you have a small TV and/or sit a long distance away from it, you get the same effect.
I sit maybe 2m away from a 55" TV, so 30fps looks disgusting on it, and way more jarring than on a typical handheld.

 

[nial]

How could anyone have bought next-gen comparable PC handhelds that don't exist yet?

??? I'm referring to those that you yourself said people are already buying:

The handhelds that they're already buying that Sony will be trying to ape.

You're not really thinking this through. For the "console vs PC", there's an enormous amount of benefit to be gained from moving to a console over a PC in terms of end user benefit - ranging from a lower cost buy-in all the way up to better hardware utilisation through a static hardware target. However, that's because PCs are massive machines designed to do basically everything, while consoles are stripped down versions of them designed to do basically one thing. There's a lot of room for efficiency and cost gains along the way. Handhelds are stripped even down further. However, there's only so much you can rip out, which is why Nintendo's brand new flagship console performs about as well as a three and a half year old Steam Deck for basically the same price. And they poured a lot more into the Switch 2 than Valve did into the Steam Deck. And therein lies the problem: at this level, there's not a whole lot more you can do differently to make your handheld better. While consoles can differentiate themselves from the PC in lots of ways, the handheld space has a lot less room to do so when we're talking about the cutting edge. So, no, it's not the same thing.

It is essentially the same when accounting for things like mass market reach (sales & marketing, basically), convenience AND a deep digital ecosystem.
The problem is that, deep into the conversation, you still can't realize that the things you deem to be better don't necessarily align to what consumers at large want.

So, the answer to "why should I buy a PSP3 over a Steam Deck 2?" is "because of the PlayStation logo"? Subtle.

No, it's not that answer because that was never the question, but rather, "what are people most likely to buy?", and I'm sure as hell that they will choose the one thing with the PlayStation logo.

Right now I'm already seeing people chose a Steam Deck over a Switch 2

You need to be extremely delusional to think that this sentence had any place of being part of your response. How do you even want people to take you seriously?

and Nintendo's first party titles are a heck of a lot better than PlayStation's. As PlayStation continues its multiplatform trajectory, there will be less reasons to get a PSP3. The sheer flexibility PC handhelds offer, in combination with console-like OS interfaces like Steam Deck and Window's new modes, means it's already about as easy as it can be on a PC handheld. And on a PC handhelds, you can literally do anything - including booting it into a Desktop if you really want to. And again, your answer to "why should I buy a PSP3 over a Steam Deck 2?" is "because of the PlayStation logo".

Again, what you deem to be better will not necessarily align to what consumers want, and market performance is quite literally what you brought up on your first post:

You try and sell a big boy handheld locked to Sony's OS and Sony's store, it's gonna fail. Hard. No one's but the fan boys are paying a Sony Premium to get less out of their hardware while paying more for their software.

But please tell me, if the vast majority of buyers will have zero interest on a portable PlayStation device, compared to these so-great flexible PC handhelds, why aren't they buying them now?

You do realise the reason Sony's looking at handhelds again is because Valve demonstrated you can fit a PS4 into a handheld and make it affordable. The Steam Deck doesn't have a single exclusive, was a brand new form factor, and came from a company not really associated with hardware. And still the Steam Deck popularised the form-factor so much that it created a legion of imitators and forced Microsoft to revisit Window's gaming performance, including creating an entirely new handheld mode for the OS to use. Nintendo sells their hardware on the strength of their first party titles, so they'll always have an install base. But you'd be silly to think that the Steam Deck hasn't started something in that space. But hey - keeping buying anything with a PlayStation logo. It never fails.

What a ridiculous thing to say when SIE has way more experience on the hardware/software R&D field than Valve will ever have, they sure as hell didn't need the Steam Deck to prove them anything. And heck, it's fair to say that the Steam Deck has started something on that bubble, but that's what it is, a bubble.
You still haven't proved why the PlayStation is going to fail hard outside of some hilarious muh PC flexibility yapping from handhelds that literally no one is buying.

ZehDon Waiting for your response, lol.

 

[nial]

With an 8 inch display and required cooling and battery life for the AMD SoC, you're always going to end up with a relatively bulky handheld. Nintendo can get away with a slim ARM device for a 10W handheld. Nobody else has that option.

Fair enough, but I don't ever expect Sony to bring out a Deck-like monstrosity.

What numbers do you think a PS portable can achieve?

If it's compelling enough, probably half of PS6 generation sales. Both devices will inevitably compete with each other.

Nothing, because they have a preferred device that works excellent, that being a PC or a Console, no this gaming handheld fad that's going on right now, just because Nintendo managed to pull it off, doesn't mean it can be replicated again, we saw this before with the waggle-waggle motion control fad of the 7th gen, it was nice for a couple of years, then people moved on, the only one having a chance of moderate success is the Deck and just for the headstart it had to get to the market first for PCMR, it won't sell tens of millions, but it'll have its niche, that's about it

Sure thing, Deck bros.

 

[bitbydeath]

Switch has option of being docked but it is literally a handheld. Nintendo audience are different and so are their games. PS handheld can easily handle those games cartoony games

I'm part of that audience and like most owners, it'll never leave docked mode.

 

[ZehDon]

??? I'm referring to those that you yourself said people are already buying:

I'm referring to people buying up PC handhelds today to explain that people will continue to buy PC handhelds in the future. You then asked how many. Being that it's in the future, which as you may be aware hasn't happened yet, I'm not entirely sure what kind of answer you want. You're just going in circles, for some reason.

... The problem is that, deep into the conversation, you still can't realize that the things you deem to be better don't necessarily align to what consumers at large want...

I'm presenting my opinion on this market segment on a discussion forum. If I need to explain how this kind of human interaction works this many posts in, I'm not sure why you're even posting.
In my opinion, a pocket PS6 - though, as has been pointed out, it'll likely be a pocket PS5, which is even less attractive - will be quite unattractive to the big-boy handheld market. A device of that size and cost will be competing against PC handhelds of equivalent spec. And that market segment is used to devices that aren't locked down and limited.

But please tell me, if the vast majority of buyers will have zero interest on a portable PlayStation device, compared to these so-great flexible PC handhelds, why aren't they buying them now?

What? People are self-evidently buying these devices - and they've done so in numbers great enough to get Microsoft and Sony's attention. Why are you trying to lie about this?

... And heck, it's fair to say that the Steam Deck has started something on that bubble, but that's what it is, a bubble...

You just asked why aren't people buying this stuff. If no one is buying this stuff, how can it can be a bubble? Which is it - people are buying it but it's a bubble, or, no one's buying it and it's not a bubble. I'll let you decide how you're wrong.

You still haven't proved why the PlayStation is going to fail hard outside of some hilarious muh PC flexibility yapping from handhelds that literally no one is buying.

... and how would you like me to prove events that haven't happened yet? I've explained my opinion on this matter multiple times: I believe a locked down PlayStation portable will be less attractive to the market than next-gen PC handhelds it'll compete against. Your responses have been, frankly, borderline unhinged. You've replied with nothing except your strong belief that anything with the PlayStation logo will sell simply because of that logo - which I even demonstrated was a faulty belief. Unless you've got something more to add, I'm done here. Best of luck.

... No, it's not that answer because that was never the question...
... You need to be extremely delusional to think that this sentence had any place of being part of your response. How do you even want people to take you seriously?...
... ZehDon Waiting for your response, lol....

Mate, what are you even doing?

 

[ResilientBanana]

You guys are really confusing the ability to spend thousands of dollars on a high end PC with the stupidity of spending thousands of dollars on a high end pc. Many of us console gamers spend our days at desks and just don't feel like spending our nights there. I have a 65" tv and a comfortable couch and just want to game comfortably without breaking the bank to do so.

I can do the same with a pc.

 

[Brucey]

For the people already owning a PS5 or a PS6 with portal which is a niche accessory.

The handheld? Play locally GTA6 everywhere and without either a PS5 or a PS6.

The handheld that's half a ps5? Seems like going backwards, if network connectivity allows full ps5 performance (albeit downsampled to 1080p for the portals screen). The handheld could also end up costing as much as a ps5 and portal combined.

 

[viveks86]

The handheld is around half the CPU power

Sorry if I haven't been keeping up, but have you confirmed the CPU power of the PS6? What would be the nearest desktop equivalent?

 

[KeplerL2]

Sorry if I haven't been keeping up, but have you confirmed the CPU power of the PS6? What would be the nearest desktop equivalent?

Should be around a 7700X

 

[Loxus]

What would it matter? I think ML upscaling will be part of the HW non negotiables for a handheld (to ensure we avoid wasting performance and energy to render at native 1080p on the handheld screen when undocked).

But that handheld is weak, like PS4 weak.
Have you not realized what the specs are?

PS6 Handheld ("Canis")
CPU: 4× Zen 6c low-power cores.
GPU: 16× RDNA 5 CUs @ 1.6–2.0 GHz (~3.3–4.1 TFLOPs).
Memory: 16GB 128-bit LPDDR5X-7500+, ~120 GB/s raw bandwidth, 16 MB Infinity Cache boosting effective bandwidth to ~200–250 GB/s.
Storage: M.2 SSD slot (PCIe 4.0 x4, ~7.9 GB/s max bandwidth) / MicroSD card slot (UHS-II speeds ~280–300 MB/s read)
Power: 15 W TDP

 

[Loxus]

it being a portable PS5 would also mean that they'd support the handheld, the PS5 and the PS6 with new games whenever they'd relase a game that was primarily designed for the handheld.

like, say, they make a new Patapon, or a new LocoRoco. those were originally designed for the PSP, as handheld games. now, with a portable PS5, they could still make games like that, and they would be perfect for a handheld... but, there's still every PS5 and PS6 owner that can also buy them. while making games designed for the handheld, they still also deliver new games for their other sytems automatically.

they wouldn't need to split their development nearly as much as with the Vita. they simply would have games that only work on PS6, and games that work on PS5, PS6 and the handheld.
no additional resources needed. especially because we can expect the next cross-gen period to be INSANELY long. like, this gen it already was longer than any time before... I'm surprised Ghost of Yotei doesn't release on PS4 tbh, given that it barely looks like it made any significant technological jumps of any kind.
and next gen, with an even smaller jump in hardware power, I honestly expect PS6 only games to be a rare exception, not the default, even when it comes to first party games. so I don't expect there to be any real issue with dev resouces being taken away by a portable PS5 that's easy to develop for.

.5 is not PS5.
Yes RT is better but looking at the system as a whole. It's not a PS5 portable.

 

[kevboard]

.5 is not PS5.
Yes RT is better but looking at the system as a whole. It's not a PS5 portable.

it's a system that is capable of easily running PS5 games that have a low power profile for it, just like a Series S, but easier to develop for.

the theory is that the "low power mode" the newest PS5 firmware brings to the table, is getting devs and games ready for the handheld.
and it would mean that older games would need a patch to run on it, but Sony can force parity with PS5 (again like Microsoft does with the Series S) starting shortly before the release of the handheld.

 

[Neo_game]

I'm part of that audience and like most owners, it'll never leave docked mode.

Not sure if Nintendo collected data recently but according to this. Docked only is 18%, handheld only is 30%. Hybrid make the rest 52%.

Nintendo Gamers Prefer Using Switch As A Handheld Rather Than Docked

Team Portable

www.nintendolife.com

I was expecting 50% to be handheld but obviously more power and bigger screen always helps. Let us see if PS handheld also has docked mode. 15W seems to low just like PS6 to use only 160W of power.

 

[nial]

I'm referring to people buying up PC handhelds today to explain that people will continue to buy PC handhelds in the future. You then asked how many. Being that it's in the future, which as you may be aware hasn't happened yet, I'm not entirely sure what kind of answer you want. You're just going in circles, for some reason.

And I'm obviously asking how many people have bought now. How is this hard to understand?

I'm presenting my opinion on this market segment on a discussion forum. If I need to explain how this kind of human interaction works this many posts in, I'm not sure why you're even posting.
In my opinion, a pocket PS6 - though, as has been pointed out, it'll likely be a pocket PS5, which is even less attractive - will be quite unattractive to the big-boy handheld market. A device of that size and cost will be competing against PC handhelds of equivalent spec. And that market segment is used to devices that aren't locked down and limited.

You're allowed to have your own opinion on the value of either devices, but you need to look at things objectively in order to determine market performance.
Again, in what way will it be less attractive for consumers who have, many times, proved that they do not care over the supposed negative effects of the usual concessions of a closed, console ecosystem?
And furthermore, what market segment are you even talking about? Size, cost? Do you surely realize that Sony is not going to sell it at the same asking point as PC handhelds of equivalent spec?

What? People are self-evidently buying these devices - and they've done so in numbers great enough to get Microsoft and Sony's attention. Why are you trying to lie about this?

Provide the evidence, then. What we do know is that none of them will remotely reach the market adoption of the worst-selling PlayStation console in history (PS Vita).
They could have gotten Microsoft's attention, but that's clearly the case of MS generally pivoting to strength Windows as gaming platform, in light of a similar OEM-licensing strategy making the rounds. And even then, at most they only licensed their Xbox brand to Asus.
Now, Sony? Evidently not from the fact that they are literally NOT entering the segment.

You just asked why aren't people buying this stuff. If no one is buying this stuff, how can it can be a bubble? Which is it - people are buying it but it's a bubble, or, no one's buying it and it's not a bubble. I'll let you decide how you're wrong.

It can certainly be a bubble, but in relation to the overall gaming hardware sector (i.e. consoles, basically)? Yes, you can perfectly say that absolutely no one is buying them.

... and how would you like me to prove events that haven't happened yet? I've explained my opinion on this matter multiple times: I believe a locked down PlayStation portable will be less attractive to the market than next-gen PC handhelds it'll compete against. Your responses have been, frankly, borderline unhinged. You've replied with nothing except your strong belief that anything with the PlayStation logo will sell simply because of that logo - which I even demonstrated was a faulty belief. Unless you've got something more to add, I'm done here. Best of luck.

Not exactly, but nice way to twist it.
I clearly commented on the huge gulf between Sony's sales and marketing capabilities versus any of the handheld PC manufacturers. Sony will be selling a hugely-marketed device targeted at the mass market, with a global reach and enormous retail push, and people will naturally relate it to the best-selling video game consoles (PlayStation 5, Nintendo Switch, Nintendo Switch 2). Neither Valve nor Asus can realistically compete with that, which is literally why this discussion at large is so intrinsically stupid.
That doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be successful just for the virtue of it being a PlayStation, but know the place of PC handhelds, holy shit. We're talking about a brand that outsold the entire Steam Deck LTD sales with just the last two quarters of PS5 sales, we're talking about a brand that sold way more PS Vitas than Valve will ever dream of selling Steam Decks.

Mate, what are you even doing?

What does saying "I know 3 guys that are choosing a Deck over a Switch 2" exactly add to the conversation of market reach? Please tell me.

 

[Brucey]

But that handheld is weak, like PS4 weak.
Have you not realized what the specs are?

PS6 Handheld ("Canis")
CPU: 4× Zen 6c low-power cores.
GPU: 16× RDNA 5 CUs @ 1.6–2.0 GHz (~3.3–4.1 TFLOPs).
Memory: 16GB 128-bit LPDDR5X-7500+, ~120 GB/s raw bandwidth, 16 MB Infinity Cache boosting effective bandwidth to ~200–250 GB/s.
Storage: M.2 SSD slot (PCIe 4.0 x4, ~7.9 GB/s max bandwidth) / MicroSD card slot (UHS-II speeds ~280–300 MB/s read)
Power: 15 W TDP

Maybe it will be called the PS5 Handheld? Seems crazy to use the PS6 name on something of this power.

 

[bitbydeath]

Not sure if Nintendo collected data recently but according to this. Docked only is 18%, handheld only is 30%. Hybrid make the rest 52%.

Nintendo Gamers Prefer Using Switch As A Handheld Rather Than Docked

Team Portable

www.nintendolife.com

I was expecting 50% to be handheld but obviously more power and bigger screen always helps. Let us see if PS handheld also has docked mode. 15W seems to low just like PS6 to use only 160W of power.

It doesn't take much to turn it on and have the screen come on the switch and not the TV, which would massively skew the stats.

 

[Loxus]

it's a system that is capable of easily running PS5 games that have a low power profile for it, just like a Series S, but easier to develop for.

the theory is that the "low power mode" the newest PS5 firmware brings to the table, is getting devs and games ready for the handheld.
and it would mean that older games would need a patch to run on it, but Sony can force parity with PS5 (again like Microsoft does with the Series S) starting shortly before the release of the handheld.

Lower power consumption doesn't make a game run on lower specs. You have to lower the graphics preset down to like Steam Deck level.

At that point, you might as well make the game available on PS4 as well. Then there's a point devs want be bothered to optimize for such low specs.

 

[Unknown?]

This will be my first video game generation where I'm not buying a Playstation console day 1.

Now that I look back, I would've been fine without a PS5 all the way until Expedition 33 came and that I could've played on a PC anyway. All the other PS5 games I've finished this gen have been on PS4 also...

Don't be so foolish! We have tons of sells analysts here who say exclusives don't matter and making games not exclusive will make so much more money because PS is the default home console and will sell just on that.

This guy must be trolling, right HeisenbergFX4 ?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Don't be so foolish! We have tons of sells analysts here who say exclusives don't matter and making games not exclusive will make so much more money because PS is the default home console and will sell just on that.

This guy must be trolling, right HeisenbergFX4 ?

 

[Sethbacca]

I can do the same with a pc.

Oh, absolutely understand, but as is brought up here constantly, nobody wants to fuck with constant driver updates, a shitty interface for using from the couch, and way the fuck more cheaters. PC is a superior experience if you wanna sit at a desk, but it's dogshit if you just wanna plug and play from your couch. There's a reason Steam is making inroads into Windows market share, and it's because it's a clearly superior game focused interface, and at some point the PC experience on a big screen may get to the point where it's worthwhile, but for now it's a hard pass for me.

 

[Zacfoldor]

So next gen Sony is making an underpowered home console to save the environment and reduce the money they have to pay for heat sync material and oddly also a trend chasing hybrid that can dock and will cannibalize their traditional console sales; creating an even worse XSX to XSS situation next generation? One home console at 160w and 1 hybrid that can connect to a TV like Switch? I assume they will also enforce parity across the devices.

Is that what you are telling me? Because that sucks.

Edit: I want to have to burn a tire for energy every time I turn it on. Who gives a FUCK about the energy usage on a game console. Sickening. Fix this Sony. Fix this Cerny! I thought Sony was moving away from Japan stuff, why are you so focused on failing to compete with Nintendo in Japan? We will have to play significantly shittier graphics for 7 years so ???? nobody can save a few watts of electricity that will make no discernable difference to anyone ever. That's pretty depressing(especially considering how much electricity AI uses and how irrelevant our usage is). The environmental bullshit that they espouse but that we have to pay for, the giving away our games, the CONTINUED and unrelenting wokeness, the reduction in game quality and quantity, the weird obtuse decisions, Sony has changed dogs. Sony has changed.

 

[Loxus]

Guys, remember this is not a serious discussion. It's just different takes and speculations, until we get more info.

I believe we are having a much better discussion about next gen this time around. Those who were around during the Xbox and PS5 leaks can tell you how nasty back then was. Lol

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Guys, remember this is not a serious discussion. It's just different takes and speculations, until we get more info.

I believe we are having a much better discussion about next gen this time around. Those who were around during the Xbox and PS5 leaks can tell you how nasty back then was. Lol

That thread was an all time classic

 

[Perrott]

Guys, remember this is not a serious discussion. It's just different takes and speculations, until we get more info.

I believe we are having a much better discussion about next gen this time around. Those who were around during the Xbox and PS5 leaks can tell you how nasty back then was. Lol

Yeah, with the console war effectively over, there should be less individuals from either side poisoning the well and spreading misinformation that fits their agendas. There are also much better and reliable sources this time around, such as Tom Henderson, Moore's Law Is Dead (who built himself a solid track record when it comes to PS hardware) and Kepler.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Yeah, with the console war effectively over, there should be less individuals from either side poisoning the well and spreading misinformation that fits their agendas. There are also much better and reliable sources this time around, such as Tom Henderson, Moore's Law Is Dead (who built himself a solid track record when it comes to PS hardware) and Kepler.

Good point, remember last time when every Tom, Dick and Harry was an "insider", there was non stop speculation over the next-gen specs, tons of videos being made especially from channels like RedGamingTech and others, all claiming to know the TF numbers, secret sauces and that kind of thing and it aged so badly.

Crazy times.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I think the PS handheld is going to fail. Portal did better than expected but even steam deck has barely hit 5million. Windows handheld do not even sell good. It is a niche product. If PS handheld tries to be a console gaming in hand I doubt this will sell well. It is not going to be expensive as well. It will like PSVR 2, good product but most serious gamers rather buy a console or PC only.

Exactly!!! Like I dont get this handheld me too nonsense that everyone is trying to do. Nintendo are the only ons that can sell handhelds at anything near $400+ and push tens of millions of units. I hear people sayng the Steam Deck is a success, that thing has sold under 5M units in 3 years. How is that a success? And why is this something anyone is trying to emulate?

If sony does the same, I will expect it to crash and burn. If it doesn't I would be legit surprised.

This is why I feel the safest bet for them, would be to just focus on the Portal formula. But have it be a streaming platform that allows you to stream locally and on the go. But more so, that allows you to use it independently of a console, and you can just stream everything PlayStation has to offer. If it doesnt work, then its just a controller with a screen; if it does, then its the lowest entry point to the playstation ecosystem.

 

[SABRE220]

Should be around a 7700X

Thats kind of embarassing upgrade for a new gen console with zen6, no? That being said, this lines up with my fears of Sony making the ps5 portable the baseline console going forward even if taking the soft approach. Also, what are your thoughts on the ps portable only having 4 cores, wouldn't it make backwards compatibility a headache? Wouldnt having half the cpu cores of a ps5 cause issues with code especially since the api is much more granular than something like dx12 for the xbox family? 8 Zen 6C cores would at least ensure it keeping up better later into the gen, especially with ps6 crossgen games. As it stands, even 60fps crossgen games will be an issue. What happens when 30/40fps games come into the picture?

Also, regarding the ps6 specs, what are your thoughts?

The ps6 having less cus than the ps5 pro is a headscratcher. The backward compatibility approach of the PlayStation consoles relies on using the same number of cus, even if you have more, as was the case with the PS5 and even downclocking the clocks at times to maintain compatibility. Having to work with fewer cus and having ipc and clocks make up for it would add more work and headache than Sony is willing to put in no?

Second that paltry amount of bandwidth would be so limiting for the next gen console, I don't get why they would suddenly gofrom 256 bit to 164 or what isit ...we saw the bandwidth limiting even the ps5pro from reaching the full use of its already modest compute uplift efficiently, having such a tiny upgrade when facing next gen path traced games with a supposed 3 times the compute seems just short sighted.

Finally, the power requirements target just feels way too conservative. We already have the slow die node progression being a real limitation in terms of delivering a real significant uplift in compute and now Sony wants to gimp the console even further by limiting the power consumption to a upto 60W below the ps5 when their success this gen in competing with the bigger chip of the series X is using higher clocks even with higher power consumption.

 

[KeplerL2]

Thats kind of embarassing upgrade for a new gen console with zen6, no? That being said, this lines up with my fears of Sony making the ps5 portable the baseline console going forward even if taking the soft approach. Also, what are your thoughts on the ps portable only having 4 cores, wouldn't it make backwards compatibility a headache? Wouldnt having half the cpu cores of a ps5 cause issues with code especially since the api is much more granular than something like dx12 for the xbox family? 8 Zen 6C cores would at least ensure it keeping up better later into the gen, especially with ps6 crossgen games. As it stands, even 60fps crossgen games will be an issue. What happens when 30/40fps games come into the picture?

Should be fine, Zen6 is a lot faster than Zen2 and system-level hacks can probably deal with games that are directly scheduling stuff on Thread8-Thread15.

Also, regarding the ps6 specs, what are your thoughts?

The ps6 having less cus than the ps5 pro is a headscratcher. The backward compatibility approach of the PlayStation consoles relies on using the same number of cus, even if you have more, as was the case with the PS5 and even downclocking the clocks at times to maintain compatibility. Having to work with fewer cus and having ipc and clocks make up for it would add more work and headache than Sony is willing to put in no?

You should watch the DF interview with Mark Cerny on the PS5 Pro announcement, Cerny said that backwards compatibility works better than expected even with different CU configs.

Finally, the power requirements target just feels way too conservative. We already have the slow die node progression being a real limitation in terms of delivering a real significant uplift in compute and now Sony wants to gimp the console even further by limiting the power consumption to a upto 60W below the ps5 when their success this gen in competing with the bigger chip of the series X is using higher clocks even with higher power consumption.

I don't think it will actually be 160W

 

[DinoD]

the rumours are it's going to play all ps6 games, so potentially an extreme series x/s situation little concerned about that to be honest, however I think cross gen gonn last well into next gen

If so. I am not buying a portable to play PS5/6 games at 30 fps.

 

[nial]

Exactly!!! Like I dont get this handheld me too nonsense that everyone is trying to do. Nintendo are the only ons that can sell handhelds at anything near $400+ and push tens of millions of units. I hear people sayng the Steam Deck is a success, that thing has sold under 5M units in 3 years. How is that a success? And why is this something anyone is trying to emulate?

If sony does the same, I will expect it to crash and burn. If it doesn't I would be legit surprised.

This is why I feel the safest bet for them, would be to just focus on the Portal formula. But have it be a streaming platform that allows you to stream locally and on the go. But more so, that allows you to use it independently of a console, and you can just stream everything PlayStation has to offer. If it doesnt work, then its just a controller with a screen; if it does, then its the lowest entry point to the playstation ecosystem.

Steam Deck is a success for the type of device it is and the little market it takes part in. PlayStation's handheld is on a totally different market and will outsell the Steam Deck's LTD sales just two quarters in.