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[bender]

Oh yeah... NeoGAF aka secret society, closed-off forum, right?

If you want to understand why I remember that post, please read my post in the thread 'The Official NeoGAF "Introduce Yourself" Thread'.

Thank you so much for approving my account!
Since I registered my account on my birthday and it got approved on Christmas Day, I'm now wondering if it's a belated birthday present or a Christmas present. Either way, I'm very happy

I think I first visited this forum in 2012 (maybe it was 2011). It had to do with the then "next gen" leaks. So, as you can probably guess (my username also says a lot), I am most interested in discussions about the technical side of things. I hope that my penchant for order will prove useful in tech-related threads.

 

[BlueManifest]

You think this console was planned in November last year or something like that?

They are probably working on this for years. They can't guess what the world will look like in 2 or 4 years from now lol.

It doesn't sound like they are delaying it because of their unforeseen mistake though

 

[KeplerL2]

I am expecting 549$ for PS6 Switch, 749$ for PS6. Most sold units (70%+) should be the switch.

24GB For PS6 Handheld is a joke. Sony will likely be wiser than this and go for 16/18GB. The thing has the performance of an RTX 2050 Mobile. It can't even use 24GB outside gimmicks.

K KeplerL2 is 100% wrong here.

As for PS6 Base, 30GB makes some sense. RTX 5070 Perf with RTX 5070S like memory. At 749$, amortizing 99$ / Year that the average PS Gamer pays for online for 5 years, that's around 1,499$ Total Cost of Ownership.

That's a system that competes with a high end PC.

The handheld has to run the same games as the base console, and outside of using lower resolution textures there's not much devs can do to lower RAM requirements.

 

[DyeHardX86]

The handheld has to run the same games as the base console, and outside of using lower resolution textures there's not much devs can do to lower RAM requirements.

Devs can't afford to have dual development pipelines a la PS4/PS Vita KeplerL2 making a lot of sense here same games need to run and 25%-30% RAM allocation vs full PS6 is all they can get away with without ending up in Series S bottleneck territory

 

[Bojji]

The handheld has to run the same games as the base console, and outside of using lower resolution textures there's not much devs can do to lower RAM requirements.

So handheld support is mandatory for PS6 developers?

 

[KeplerL2]

So handheld support is mandatory for PS6 developers?

Idk, but a large difference in RAM would make it almost impossible to run PS6 games. 10GB XSS vs 16GB XSX was already hard, 18GB PS6P vs 30GB PS6 would be a nightmare for devs.

 

[Hyper_hyper]

So handheld support is mandatory for PS6 developers?

Yes, you can bet on it. It will replace Portal. It won't be standalone as PSVita.

Idk, but a large difference in RAM would make it almost impossible to run PS6 games. 10GB XSS vs 16GB XSX was already hard, 18GB PS6P vs 30GB PS6 would be a nightmare for devs.

Maybe. It remains to be seen. That handheld will be more powerful than XSS in basically every way

 

[Bojji]

Idk, but a large difference in RAM would make it almost impossible to run PS6 games. 10GB XSS vs 16GB XSX was already hard, 18GB PS6P vs 30GB PS6 would be a nightmare for devs.

Yeah, that massive amount of memory for a handheld device (50% more than PS5) is suggesting that they want devs to have much easier time when porting games.

 

[IDKFA]

With current prices that will be really expensive. Either they'll delay it or downgrade it for launch.

Who knows with the current climate how much it would cost. Sony can't go to high and scare off customers.

For a bit of fun speciation and guess work and guess work, I would say $599/£549 for the handheld/hybrid model.

I'm going to guess it has an OLED (because why not?) and with the other specs, I'm just going to say the BOM for Sony would be $350–$450 per unit. That doesn't include other assotiated costs that I can't be fucked to think about. I also pulled that figure from my ass, so could be well off.

I think the PS6 "big boy" will be $699/£649 with no disc drive. BOM could be $500 or more.

Again, pulled from my ass, but fun to play the guessing game

 

[memoryman3]

Idk, but a large difference in RAM would make it almost impossible to run PS6 games. 10GB XSS vs 16GB XSX was already hard, 18GB PS6P vs 30GB PS6 would be a nightmare for devs.

And 1/6 the compute power wouldn't be difficult enough? (Many modern games have workloads that do not scale with resolution)

 

[KeplerL2]

And 1/6 the compute power wouldn't be difficult enough? (Many modern games have workloads that do not scale with resolution)

Not really no. 1080p 30 FPS is an 8x reduction in pixels/sec vs 4K 60, that alone should be enough for most cases.

 

[memoryman3]

Not really no. 1080p 30 FPS is an 8x reduction in pixels/sec vs 4K 60, that alone should be enough for most cases.

Not all PS6 games are going to be 4K 60. Some might be 1080p again or even target lower framerates, as path tracing is still going to be brutal on this class of GPU.

Ubisoft's Rendering Technical Architect: "Static compute work doesn't scale with resolution"

 

[Bojji]

Not all PS6 games are going to be 4K 60. Some might be 1080p again or even target lower framerates, as path tracing is still going to be brutal on this class of GPU.

Ubisoft's Rendering Technical Architect: "Static compute work doesn't scale with resolution"

Games will just drop PT on HH device.

I expect native 4k to be a rarity on PS6, most games will be 1080p/1440p with PSSR2/3. At the same time handheld will receive 540-720p games with PSSR.

 

[IDKFA]

Idk, but a large difference in RAM would make it almost impossible to run PS6 games. 10GB XSS vs 16GB XSX was already hard, 18GB PS6P vs 30GB PS6 would be a nightmare for devs.

I think it would have to be mandatory, right?

From what I understand the PS6 handheld (Hybrid?) is part of the PS6 family. It isn't a stand alone console like the Vita. In order to maximize the install base and avoid fragmenting the market, Sony need to ensure games scalable across both systems.

The PS6 traditional console isn't that interesting to me. The handheld is where my interest is peaked. A handheld that will run every game in your PS library, plus PS6 games sounds too good to be true.

 

[memoryman3]

Games will just drop PT on HH device.

In some cases this would require additional work from artists that would increase development time. I expect in the 2030s most people in the console/PC market would be gaming on capable devices that notably exceed the PS6 handheld, and can handle some form of mega lights implementation (extremely demanding on current low-midrange GPUs).

Kepler_L2 claimed that the PS6 Canis APU would be closely aligned with current Panther Lake devices at 30 watts. Digital Foundry tested the configuration and found that the performance is competitive with Xbox Series S. Would you be okay with Series S class hardware holding back developers in 2032?

Another Panther Lake Milestone: Better-Than-Series S Performance in Alan Wake 2

With improved settings to boot.

www.digitalfoundry.net

Perhaps Sony will luck out and most developers would continue to target 2060 class hardware, handhelds, and the PS5/Series S/Switch 2. Then 24GB RAM wouldn't be necessary at all for the handheld.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

In your dreams, paying for exclusivity doesn't make it first party, Sony is just the publisher they don't own the game.
The fact this game came to PC and second game going multiplat again proofs that.

If this were a Nintendo thread you'd be calling others out for the same exact type of post, funny how that works eh ?

Also, MCH2024

 

[yogaflame]

Is that a good number of RAM for next gen? Is it enough?

 

[Bojji]

In some cases this would require additional work from artists that would increase development time. I expect in the 2030s most people in the console/PC market would be gaming on capable devices that notably exceed the PS6 handheld, and can handle some form of mega lights implementation (extremely demanding on current low-midrange GPUs).

Kepler_L2 claimed that the PS6 Canis APU would be closely aligned with current Panther Lake devices at 30 watts. Digital Foundry tested the configuration and found that the performance is competitive with Xbox Series S. Would you be okay with Series S class hardware holding back developers in 2032?

Another Panther Lake Milestone: Better-Than-Series S Performance in Alan Wake 2

With improved settings to boot.

www.digitalfoundry.net

Perhaps Sony will luck out and most developers would continue to target 2060 class hardware, handhelds, and the PS5/Series S/Switch 2. Then 24GB RAM wouldn't be necessary at all for the handheld.

To be honest I expect full PT to be rare on consoles, we will see.

RT lighing on the other hand (RTGI, HW lumem) should be a standard. So for games that try PT on PS6 there will always be a fall back with RTGI for handheld.

Is that a good number of RAM for next gen? Is it enough?

Yes.

 

[IAmRei]

it might be NDS vs PSP again...
could be different this time?

 

[Bojji]

it might be NDS vs PSP again...
could be different this time?

If the console have full PS4/PS6 software library (and partial PS5 library, based on LP mode) - this can look very different than 3DS vs. Vita...

 

[sephirot_buns]

it might be NDS vs PSP again...
could be different this time?

it will be a complementary device to spread the field of the PS6, its 100% not going to compete against switch 2 in numbers.

 

[IAmRei]

it will be a complementary device to spread the field of the PS6, its 100% not going to compete against switch 2 in numbers.

yeah, this time is different because switch also not completely handheld.

 

[Hyper_hyper]

Nvm

 

[nial]

I also believe that PS6 handheld won't have screen above 60hz refresh rate.

No way when Switch 2 does.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Idk, but a large difference in RAM would make it almost impossible to run PS6 games. 10GB XSS vs 16GB XSX was already hard, 18GB PS6P vs 30GB PS6 would be a nightmare for devs.

100%

Memory pool size impacts game design (especially on closed systems.)

No matter how much the Xbox shills and True Believers tried arguing with the laughable bullshit of "just lower the resolution/settings."

 

[Hyper_hyper]

So handheld support is mandatory for PS6 developers?

Yeah, that massive amount of memory for a handheld device (50% more than PS5) is suggesting that they want devs to have much easier time when porting games.

Yes, it is obvious. I also believe that PS6 handheld won't have screen above 60hz ( or at least) refresh rate. Pairing it with 720p/1080p with PSSR should be enough for games to looks good. Especially since it will have huge amount of RAM for handheld and it will be at least on PS5 TF level with more modern architecture. Also, PS SDK GNMX and ease of use are probably best in business. That was highlighted from very beginning of this gen by devs. So, porting games to handheld will possibly be automated in some way.

No way when Switch 2 does.

Well, at least then.

 

[IDKFA]

In your dreams, paying for exclusivity doesn't make it first party, Sony is just the publisher they don't own the game.
The fact this game came to PC and second game going multiplat again proofs that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Stellar Blade was primarily funded and published by Sony. I still don't think it makes it first party. More like a second party title.

I think it's the same with Bayonetta 3, which was funded and published by Nintendo, but isn't a first party Nintendo game.

 

[Bojji]

100%

Memory pool size impacts game design (especially on closed systems.)

No matter how much the Xbox shills and True Believers tried arguing with the laughable bullshit of "just lower the resolution/settings."

Yeah, but SS had CPU parity (and smaller GPU difference). But if the only target 30fps on this console (vs. 60/120 on PS6) then it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[IntentionalPun]

100%

Memory pool size impacts game design (especially on closed systems.)

No matter how much the Xbox shills and True Believers tried arguing with the laughable bullshit of "just lower the resolution/settings."

I think you missed a couple of his posts, like this one:

Not really no. 1080p 30 FPS is an 8x reduction in pixels/sec vs 4K 60, that alone should be enough for most cases.

 

[Hyper_hyper]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Stellar Blade was primarily funded and published by Sony. I still don't think it makes it first party. More like a second party title.

I think it's the same with Bayonetta 3, which was funded and published by Nintendo, but isn't a first party Nintendo game.

2nd party term was made up term by media or people on forum boards. You won't see that term in financial reports, only term 1st party and 3rd party partners

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yeah, but SS had CPU parity (and smaller GPU difference). But if the only target 30fps on this console (vs. 60/120 on PS6) then it shouldn't be an issue.

I think you missed a couple of his posts, like this one:

We've seen devs claim the issue was the memory pool for their game design.

RAM will have a larger impact on that vs "just lower the setting bro."

 

[thebigmanjosh]

Games will just drop PT on HH device.

I expect native 4k to be a rarity on PS6, most games will be 1080p/1440p with PSSR2/3. At the same time handheld will receive 540-720p games with PSSR.

But then developers are essentially building for two models - one with path tracing and one with traditional raster. I don't see Sony adding that degree of complication and mandating Canis compatibility as a requirement.

I do see Sony selling this as a PS6 light for mass market consumption of games like Fortnite or Marvel Rivals and BC with all PS5 titles. There's no way you're limiting devs to ~200GB/s memory bandwidth, and no way devs aren't pushing back

 

[Bojji]

But then developers are essentially building for two models - one with path tracing and one with traditional raster. I don't see Sony adding that degree of complication and mandating Canis compatibility as a requirement.

I do see Sony selling this as a PS6 light for mass market consumption of games like Fortnite or Marvel Rivals and BC with all PS5 titles. There's no way you're limiting devs to ~200GB/s memory bandwidth, and no way devs aren't pushing back

PT will be a rarity on PS6 anyway, and most games will switch to RTGI on handheld so devs don't have to bake lightining.

But assuming that possibly ~5 years of next gen will be a cross gen, we will see game scaling never seen before. Pragmata and RE9 are probably great examples of that, you go from low end raster versions (SW2) to Path Tracing (PC) and RT in between (PS5).

 

[//DEVIL//]

Idk, but a large difference in RAM would make it almost impossible to run PS6 games. 10GB XSS vs 16GB XSX was already hard, 18GB PS6P vs 30GB PS6 would be a nightmare for devs.

I do get what you coming from, but I dont suppose its only ram issue. a handheld to run UE5 will require a big downscaling from the devs. strip any ray tracing too out of the game among other things. I don't see it really a viable option if this is a mandotary like how Series S and X were.

if its optional, this also would suck because it means a different SKU of the game and you would have to buy the game twice.

the idea of playing on PS6 and continue on portable system on the go sounds really tempting if it was played right though.

 

[IDKFA]

2nd party term was made up term by media or people on forum boards. You won't see that term in financial reports, only term 1st party and 3rd party partners

I see. So both games would therefore be first party as they were funded and published by Sony/Nintendo, right?

 

[IntentionalPun]

2nd party term was made up term by media or people on forum boards. You won't see that term in financial reports, only term 1st party and 3rd party partners

Sony had a VP level person in charge of "2nd party."

The idea that the term was only used by the media or people on forums is made up by people on forums lol

 

[Mulsanne88]

Not all PS6 games are going to be 4K 60. Some might be 1080p again or even target lower framerates, as path tracing is still going to be brutal on this class of GPU.

Ubisoft's Rendering Technical Architect: "Static compute work doesn't scale with resolution"

Should we not just assume most PS6 games will be built for PS5 with all the graphical bells & whistles added for PS6?

The PS6 handheld can then run a version of the PS5 game.

I don't think we'll be seeing PS6 titles that can't run on PS5 for the entire gen.

 

[Joe Cool]

for the PC about 7000$ with taxes

Congratulations! You spent money and that means you are better than other people!

 

[nial]

Sony had a VP level person in charge of "2nd party."

Who? I remembered, nvm.

The idea that the term was only used by the media or people on forums is made up by people on forums lol

You're not wrong, but it still does not change the fact that they're still first-party. You could argue that they're a different kind of first-party games, but they're still... first-party.

 

[Bernardougf]

2nd party term was made up term by media or people on forum boards. You won't see that term in financial reports, only term 1st party and 3rd party partners

You were saying ?

 

[slrbomber]

Idk, but a large difference in RAM would make it almost impossible to run PS6 games. 10GB XSS vs 16GB XSX was already hard, 18GB PS6P vs 30GB PS6 would be a nightmare for devs.

Spot on!!

 

[slrbomber]

But then developers are essentially building for two models - one with path tracing and one with traditional raster. I don't see Sony adding that degree of complication and mandating Canis compatibility as a requirement.

I do see Sony selling this as a PS6 light for mass market consumption of games like Fortnite or Marvel Rivals and BC with all PS5 titles. There's no way you're limiting devs to ~200GB/s memory bandwidth, and no way devs aren't pushing back

for a game targeting 1080p 30 fps this isnt impossible. Its not like there wont be hw acceleration for PT in the PS6 or on the portable. You can run games without PT which is what will be expected on the PS6 portable i.e scale back the RT. It wont be a challenge at all. I would be more concerned about the amount of memory which its clearly going to have a lot of. Other concern is the raw memory bandwidth on the PS6. Those figures dont look good

 

[slrbomber]

It's more of a "we need 500 developers working for 10 years to make this" than a technology issue at this point.

Completely spot on. But I think also worth considering is AI driven development. its possible to use a pretained an LLM on codebases that dont even include data from Rockstar then during post training use Reinforcement learning to train a coding LLM to help build similar worlds much faster at the same quality level. So with the same number of people you could do it in about 5 years. At least for the coding part. I think Anthropic will offer this to game studios very soon as part of their Claude Code offering.

 

[midnightAI]

You were saying ?

You are conflating second party developers and second party games, the latter, as far as Sony is concerned, doesn't really exist afaik. Second party developers definitely exists as Shift Up have signed a second party developers agreement with Sony, but games they make will effectively be first party, again, as far as Sony is concerned (Nintendo may see that differently for example)

 

[Hyper_hyper]

You were saying ?

Yep, social media crap. So, where is that term in financial reports? You WON'T SEE IT THERE. Stellar Blade was labeled as 1st party game. 2nd party is NOT an official term.

 

[Jesb]

Get ready to be underwhelmed by nextgen. With Switch 2, steam machines just coming and being mid level consoles or below, and Sony bringing in a handheld, the specs won't need to be the best around.

 

[David_Android]

Won't ever forget that

wtf no way that was no trolling from that riky guy?

Riky ?

 

[David_Android]

So handheld support is mandatory for PS6 developers?

oh no

 

[David_Android]

Get ready to be underwhelmed by nextgen. With Switch 2, steam machines just coming and being mid level consoles or below, and Sony bringing in a handheld, the specs won't need to be the best around.

it will be the lowest jump in performance ever. but that is to be expected by now.

its like going from a 9600xt to a 9700xt 90% more. So double ps5 pro circa in gpu.

 

[J Required]

Yeah, that massive amount of memory for a handheld device (50% more than PS5) is suggesting that they want devs to have much easier time when porting games.

For Sony's next handheld to truly succeed, full compatibility with all PS6 games isn't optional—it's mandatory. If Sony delivers this seamlessly, they won't just enter the market—they'll disrupt it.

Such a device could give them a real shot at reclaiming momentum in Japan, and among the aging demographic who grew up with the original PlayStation and are now parents with limited gaming time. A PlayStation handheld that mirrors PS6 performance would fit perfectly into their lifestyle: pick-up-and-play sessions without sacrificing console quality.

Executed correctly, this strategy could strengthen the entire PlayStation ecosystem.