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[Jesb]

it will be the lowest jump in performance ever. but that is to be expected by now.

its like going from a 9600xt to a 9700xt 90% more. So double ps5 pro circa in gpu.

To be honest I feel like nextgen should be about more than just a powerful console. It's now time to make something different that's new and fresh rather than just the highest spec bump. I'm surprised they are not just doing a hybrid console. That makes the most sense since its specs isn't going to blow us away. I really don't know how they pull off two consoles at once.

 

[David_Android]

To be honest I feel like nextgen should be about more than just a powerful console. It's now time to make something different that's new and fresh rather than just the highest spec bump. I'm surprised they are not just doing a hybrid console. That makes the most sense since its specs isn't going to blow us away. I really don't know how they pull off two consoles at once.

Its about Software feature set more than anything. raw power age is over.

One day we will have like 10x FG where it will feel like native, just give it time.

nvidia is already at 6x with lag but its coming.

 

[Emmy Ator Best]

For Sony's next handheld to truly succeed, full compatibility with all PS6 games isn't optional—it's mandatory. If Sony delivers this seamlessly, they won't just enter the market—they'll disrupt it.

Such a device could give them a real shot at reclaiming momentum in Japan, and among the aging demographic who grew up with the original PlayStation and are now parents with limited gaming time. A PlayStation handheld that mirrors PS6 performance would fit perfectly into their lifestyle: pick-up-and-play sessions without sacrificing console quality.

Executed correctly, this strategy could strengthen the entire PlayStation ecosystem.

Sony's handheld won't do shit in Japan. This is what Japanese people are playing, PlayStation is irrelevant now

 

[nial]

Yep, social media crap. So, where is that term in financial reports? You WON'T SEE IT THERE. Stellar Blade was labeled as 3rd party game. 2nd party is NOT an official term.

You're wrong there as well, Stellar Blade was labeled as first-party, not third-party.

 

[nial]

To be honest I feel like nextgen should be about more than just a powerful console. It's now time to make something different that's new and fresh rather than just the highest spec bump. I'm surprised they are not just doing a hybrid console. That makes the most sense since its specs isn't going to blow us away. I really don't know how they pull off two consoles at once.

How can you do just one hybrid console that is, at the very least, as powerful as PS5 Pro and affordable at the same time?

 

[Jesb]

How can you do just one hybrid console that is, at the very least, as powerful as PS5 Pro and affordable at the same time?

Delay it until you can. They may need to go into the price territory that the pro costs. With the ram problem I'm not sure having two consoles is the smart move anyway.

 

[nial]

Delay it until you can. They may need to go into the price territory that the pro costs. With the ram problem I'm not sure having two consoles is the smart move anyway.

"Delay it until you can" no, that's not how anything works.

 

[Felessan]

Sony's handheld won't do shit in Japan. This is what Japanese people are playing, PlayStation is irrelevant now

The catch here is "selling"
Games sold is only 2.7bn market, roughly 10% of total Japan game market. The rest of the games Japanese people playing are not being sold as they are free-to-play. Mihoyo for reference alone has about 2bn revenue from Japan.
And gachastation has some presence in that market.

 

[Hyper_hyper]

You're wrong there as well, Stellar Blade was labeled as first-party, not third-party.

Not wrong, because i've edited a post before you've quote me. SwiftKey key crap anyway

 

[Throttle]

The handheld has to run the same games as the base console, and outside of using lower resolution textures there's not much devs can do to lower RAM requirements.

Tom from Moore's Law is Dead speculates that PS6 consoles will need that amount of ram to run local AI in games. AI is much more dependent of total memory than of overal power.

 

[Emmy Ator Best]

The catch here is "selling"
Games sold is only 2.7bn market, roughly 10% of total Japan game market. The rest of the games Japanese people playing are not being sold as they are free-to-play. Mihoyo for reference alone has about 2bn revenue from Japan.
And gachastation has some presence in that market.

This is straight up delusional. Sony will sell millions of portables only for gachas? And that's assuming all those games won't get Switch 2 versions. Most likely they will.

 

[Garda]

I don't think that the HH device will run all PS6 games. PS6 will use UE6 and HH would struggle with UE5. Since the HH has about 0.8 compute of the PS5, insistence on running PS6 games would dramatically stifle its games. Kepler says that 8x reduction in pixel count mitigates this issue, sure, but I don't think that's the whole story and that this would somehow enable full-size next-gen features on the HH device.

Having said that, I notice that most people expect an underwhelming next gen consoles but I think there are plenty of things to be excited about, worthy of the "next gen" (jump) label.

Running small LLMs locally could be revolutionary for games across many genres featuring lifelike worlds and NPC behaviour. We could see hybrid systems that match pre-structured stories and narratives with open, unstructured behaviour and interactions.

In the visual department, we will get much better raytracing and even PT which is a huge jump from what we have now.

 

[Bernardougf]

Yep, social media crap. So, where is that term in financial reports? You WON'T SEE IT THERE. Stellar Blade was labeled as 1st party game. 2nd party is NOT an official term.

LoL learn to take the L and be a man...clown....changing the goal post wont do, but keep digging.

Meanwhile i'll drop his LinkedIn profile either

Comeback to me when you are a big boy and ready do admit your "made up term only existing in forums " bullshit was wrong.

 

[Bernardougf]

You are conflating second party developers and second party games, the latter, as far as Sony is concerned, doesn't really exist afaik. Second party developers definitely exists as Shift Up have signed a second party developers agreement with Sony, but games they make will effectively be first party, again, as far as Sony is concerned (Nintendo may see that differently for example)

You cant say something dosent exist if its in the job discription and profile of the VP of the company... whatever sony puts in their financial reports is not my problem.. the term "second party" exists and its not made up in foruns and by the midia like the clown was saying, the game from a second party partner is a second party game, that should be obivious and not in need of mental gymnastics.

And even then.. if sony dicides to call a apple an orange to inflate their business reports or just make it easier for dumb share holders to understand its not my problem either and apples will be apples.

The guy is VP for second party partners that then produces second party games, if those games become first or third party in their financial reports for whatver reason is a whole other question.

 

[Baemono]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Stellar Blade was primarily funded and published by Sony. I still don't think it makes it first party. More like a second party title.

I think it's the same with Bayonetta 3, which was funded and published by Nintendo, but isn't a first party Nintendo game.

I'm no expert but I would've seen Stellar Blade as a third party exclusive (Sony helping funding the game, but didn't pay Shift Up to actually make the game).

Bayonetta 3 is a good example indeed. Typically would fall under the 1st party category if Sega didn't have its grip on the IP and would release the first game elsewhere several times.

 

[Ellis]

There was literally no handheld gaming device that offered close to the power of PSP for a few years. Smartphones didn't exist. t'll be interesting to see them release a new device today with so much competiton around.

Not having to worry about poor build quality will also be a major plus point.

Steam Deck OLED is nice. ROGs however feel like shitty Fisher Price toys.

 

[Merline]

People really have no clue how insane this thing is going to be. If the leaks are true and Sony really brings a handheld with 24 GB of RAM that can run PS6, PS5, and PS4 games natively, it would be an absolute game-changer. Finally, true high end PlayStation gaming on the go. This thing will completely humiliate PC handhelds and the Switch 2.

 

[Felessan]

This is straight up delusional. Sony will sell millions of portables only for gachas? And that's assuming all those games won't get Switch 2 versions. Most likely they will.

No, it'll get all other multiplatform games too, Japanese included - all those Capcom, SE, Konami games in portable format. Even Chinese and Korean games too.
But the point is that Famitsu top100 games kinda a bit overrated when it shows just 10% of the market and rest 90% play completely different games. And gacha games really big in Japan.

Given Nintendo 3rd party relationships "quality" and weak hardware we will see when and if Switch2 get gacha games, especially AAA ones. Till now there a ZERO announcements so far for Switch2 and we already 8 months since launch.

 

[Hyper_hyper]

LoL learn to take the L and be a man...clown....changing the goal post wont do, but keep digging.

Meanwhile i'll drop his LinkedIn profile either

Comeback to me when you are a big boy and ready do admit your "made up term only existing in forums " bullshit was wrong.

Show me in OFFICIAL finacial reports where 2nd party term is used. Not some crap from social media.

 

[Emmy Ator Best]

No, it'll get all other multiplatform games too, Japanese included - all those Capcom, SE, Konami games in portable format. Even Chinese and Korean games too.
But the point is that Famitsu top100 games kinda a bit overrated when it shows just 10% of the market and rest 90% play completely different games. And gacha games really big in Japan.

Given Nintendo 3rd party relationships "quality" and weak hardware we will see when and if Switch2 get gacha games, especially AAA ones. Till now there a ZERO announcements so far for Switch2 and we already 8 months since launch.

Again all those games will be on Switch 2. And Japanese gamers won't care that they will run better on PlayStation because they would much rather also have Nintendo games.

 

[Sid]

Launching when? any idea?

 

[Bernardougf]

Show me in OFFICIAL finacial reports where 2nd party term is used. Not some crap from social media.

"Crap from social midia" from the linkedin profile of the VP of the company in his job description... bye child.. you're not worth my time.

 

[J Required]

Sony's handheld won't do shit in Japan. This is what Japanese people are playing, PlayStation is irrelevant now

A Playstation handheld can definitely sell better than stationary console in Japan, that's gaining some ground for Sony. They don't have or need to dethrone Nintendo there.

 

[Same ol G]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Stellar Blade was primarily funded and published by Sony. I still don't think it makes it first party. More like a second party title.

I think it's the same with Bayonetta 3, which was funded and published by Nintendo, but isn't a first party Nintendo game.

Not really the same, bayonetta2 and 3 were truly funded by Nintendo, without them the games wouldn't exist.
This was not the same for stellar blade the game already existed and was announced as multiplatform before Sony came with a bag of money.
And yes part of that money was used for further development but it's not the same as bayonetta.
I also would agree with second party but calling it first party is laughable

 

[Emmy Ator Best]

A Playstation handheld can definitely sell better than stationary console in Japan, that's gaining some ground for Sony. They don't have or need to dethrone Nintendo there.

No shit. What I'm saying is that it will sell worse than the Vita.

 

[Felessan]

Again all those games will be on Switch 2. And Japanese gamers won't care that they will run better on PlayStation because they would much rather also have Nintendo games.

Do you have a proof? If you don't - its pure believes and wishful thinking.
The same as "all 3rd party games will be on Switch2" and that's statement already falling out.

PS. If anything - they would not know benefits of Switch2 as those games run just fine on phones (and difference between modern phone and Sw2 is not that big, unlike PS5)

 

[Emmy Ator Best]

Do you have a proof? If you don't - its pure believes and wishful thinking.
The same as "all 3rd party games will be on Switch2" and that's statement already falling out.

PS. If anything - they would not know benefits of Switch2 as those games run just fine on phones (and difference between modern phone and Sw2 is not that big, unlike PS5)

If you can't see the writing on the wall with Capcom supporting Switch 2 100% I don't know what to tell you.

 

[J Required]

No shit. What I'm saying is that it will sell worse than the Vita.

Gaining some ground in Japan plus Playstation firm lock in other markets. Seems like a winning recipe to me.

 

[Hyper_hyper]

"Crap from social midia" from the linkedin profile of the VP of the company in his job description... bye child.. you're not worth my time.

2nd party isn't official term. What is so hard to accept? I don't fucking care if someone is using it on forums or on social media. Official term doesn't exist, otherwise, it would be mentioned in financial reports OFFICIALLY. Only 1st party and 3rd party term is used.

 

[Jam Dingo]

I think it would have to be mandatory, right?

From what I understand the PS6 handheld (Hybrid?) is part of the PS6 family. It isn't a stand alone console like the Vita. In order to maximize the install base and avoid fragmenting the market, Sony need to ensure games scalable across both systems.

The PS6 traditional console isn't that interesting to me. The handheld is where my interest is peaked. A handheld that will run every game in your PS library, plus PS6 games sounds too good to be true.

My guess is it'll be encouraged but not absolutely mandatory. Making it mandatory just creates unnecessary problems imo. The thing will already play every PS4 and PS5 game in your library, it doesn't really need 100% support from PS6 games to still be incredibly compelling.

 

[J Required]

My guess is it'll be encouraged but not absolutely mandatory. Making it mandatory just creates unnecessary problems imo. The thing will already play every PS4 and PS5 game in your library, it doesn't really need 100% support from PS6 games to still be incredibly compelling.

If it doesn't play all PlayStation games, then Sony shouldn't even bother. PS4 and PS5 titles already have their own hardware—why would anyone spend $500 on a new device knowing it won't support future releases? A half-step handheld would be dead on arrival.

 

[Jam Dingo]

it will be the lowest jump in performance ever. but that is to be expected by now.

its like going from a 9600xt to a 9700xt 90% more. So double ps5 pro circa in gpu.

But no increase in resolution. Plus big RT upgrade, plus ML.

So it'll still produce a huge increase in fidelity.

 

[Jam Dingo]

If it doesn't play all PlayStation games, then Sony shouldn't even bother. PS4 and PS5 titles already have their own hardware—why would anyone spend $500 on a new device knowing it won't support future releases? A half-step handheld would be dead on arrival.

That's not what I said, is it?

 

[Radical_3d]

No shit. What I'm saying is that it will sell worse than the Vita.

It will mostly not. At least worldwide. The Vita problem was catalog. Ensuring compatibility with the low power mode of the PS5 is more than enough to surpass lifetime Vita amount of games. And will probably have all the PS4 library (that is when most gamers started their digital library).

 

[Panajev2001a]

The handheld has to run the same games as the base console, and outside of using lower resolution textures there's not much devs can do to lower RAM requirements.

They could lower native rendering resolution further too but there is a limit on how much lower they can go. Needing 6 GB less than PS6 is a pretty big savings already.

If AI is more and more used in games, it will add a fixed overhead they need to budget for. The generation will last for a long time and they need to keep parity (software running on both console and handheld) with maybe only few portable and docked mode only customisations devs might do (maybe only big first party releases) on top. So RAM requirements for both consoles are similar… rumours are that devs early on answered they want more RAM (24 GB for the base console is too little… 30 GB seems like the bare minimum).

 

[IDKFA]

My guess is it'll be encouraged but not absolutely mandatory. Making it mandatory just creates unnecessary problems imo. The thing will already play every PS4 and PS5 game in your library, it doesn't really need 100% support from PS6 games to still be incredibly compelling.

I think that would be a hard sell to most consumers. You're asking them to spend a lot of money on a device that isn't guaranteed to be supported with the latest PS6 games.

Granted a lot of early PS6 games will be cross platform anyway, but Sony doesn't want to be in a position where games are only released on the traditional console and the handheld is left out.

 

[Panajev2001a]

PT will be a rarity on PS6 anyway, and most games will switch to RTGI on handheld so devs don't have to bake lightining.

But assuming that possibly ~5 years of next gen will be a cross gen, we will see game scaling never seen before. Pragmata and RE9 are probably great examples of that, you go from low end raster versions (SW2) to Path Tracing (PC) and RT in between (PS5)

I think Switch 2 can handle RTGI with some sacrifices, if it can run DOOM: TDA and Indiana Jones decently, it could handle this code path and then devs can cut off baked lighting from their dev pipelines.

A lot of PCs can run DOOM: TDA decently too.

 

[J Required]

That's not what I said, is it?

If supporting PS6 games is optional then it won't play all PlayStation's games.

 

[Radical_3d]

GAF you have to pick one: it's either the eternal cross gen because Switch 2 is a sales monster (and the Steam machine) and the PS6 is redundant or the cross gen is left behind in two years and PSP3 can't keep up. It can't be Sony loosing on both sides.

 

[Felessan]

If you can't see the writing on the wall with Capcom supporting Switch 2 100% I don't know what to tell you.

Capcom ported their games to Iphone
They'll port their games to fridge if they see even a glimpse of sales
Doesn't mean anything, especially to gacha games - those require constant investment of resources and Switch2 being low-compatible AND low-power platform making it much less lucrative for supporting

And if you want a writing on the wall - look at Borderlands 4 Sw2 port situation.

 

[Jam Dingo]

I think that would be a hard sell to most consumers. You're asking them to spend a lot of money on a device that isn't guaranteed to be supported with the latest PS6 games.

Granted a lot of early PS6 games will be cross platform anyway, but Sony doesn't want to be in a position where games are only released on the traditional console and the handheld is left out.

I think we're underestimating just how compelling a handheld is that plays all PS4 games, all PS5 games, and ALMOST all (>99%) of PS6 games.

I don't think it's at all clear that many people would be concentrating on the lack of an absolute ironclad guarantee that every single PS6 game would be supported. It could be a big deal, but it certainly wouldn't be for me. So who knows really.

 

[Jam Dingo]

If supporting PS6 games is optional then it won't play all PlayStation's games.

You said it would be a problem if people knew future games wouldn't be supported. But that isn't what I said. I said a situation where there's a slim chance that SOME (ie <1%) future games might not be supported wouldn't be a big problem.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Again all those games will be on Switch 2. And Japanese gamers won't care that they will run better on PlayStation because they would much rather also have Nintendo games.

Konami's football game (WE/ISS/PES, now GaaS eFootball) hasn't been on a Nintendo platform with mainline gameplay(Wii/3DS tailored versions don't count) since the Gamecube's Japan exclusive Winning Elven 6 Final Evolution, despite it being the number one football game in the country, and even though the game is F2P on smartphones/PC/home consoles and an eFootball kick-off edition is announced for Switch 2 that will again be bespoke and a full price game detached from the mainline F2P eFootball, the SW1 with +100M install base is completely without, suggesting that "all those games" won't be on SW2 regardless of the install base or baseline technology SW2 brings compared to a PlayStation handheld.

edit:
When you consider how popular football is in Japan, particularly ManU and consider the game has dedicated hoarding board adverts at every ManU, Arsenal and Barcelona, etc home games - of select teams they sponsor - promoting the game and saying Free to Play, download now and it won't be on SW1 or SW2, that will impact Japanese gamers desire to own a PlayStation Portable also or instead IMO.

 

[Throttle]

But no increase in resolution. Plus big RT upgrade, plus ML.

So it'll still produce a huge increase in fidelity.

It can even be a decrease in resolution. PS5 ex-clusives mostly target around
1440p. PS6 can target 1080p with FSR 4 or 5 and still look better.

 

[winjer]

The handheld has to run the same games as the base console, and outside of using lower resolution textures there's not much devs can do to lower RAM requirements.

Render resolution will always affect memory usage. The question is by how much, because we don't know what kind of resolution the PS6 and the handheld will use.
Let's imagine a game is running at 720p. That is 1280x720x32/8= 3.5MB.
But if a game is running a 1080p. That is 1920x1080x32/8= 7.9MB.
And at 1440p that is 2560x1440p= 14MB.

Modern games will use dozens of rendering buffers, for all sort of things. Though some buffers will use 32bits, other 16bits, and other even 8bits.
So the difference can go to up to 1 or 2 GB of vram.
But still, not enough for the 24 vs 30GB, like you said.

 

[midnightAI]

You cant say something dosent exist if its in the job discription and profile of the VP of the company... whatever sony puts in their financial reports is not my problem.. the term "second party" exists and its not made up in foruns and by the midia like the clown was saying, the game from a second party partner is a second party game, that should be obivious and not in need of mental gymnastics.

And even then.. if sony dicides to call a apple an orange to inflate their business reports or just make it easier for dumb share holders to understand its not my problem either and apples will be apples.

The guy is VP for second party partners that then produces second party games, if those games become first or third party in their financial reports for whatver reason is a whole other question.

The job description is for relations with second party developers, again, you are conflating the two

Sony makes agreements for independent studios to make games just for them, or at the very least timed, that agreement is a second party agreement, that means they aren't an internal studio but the game they are making is for them as the publisher. The agreement then has lots of intricacies but usually Sony foots up the bill to make one or more games under this agreement (and usually does things like marketing and even provides additional staff if needed). These games are then considered to be first party games by Sony. This isn't just a Sony thing either, MS, Nintendo, they all have the same agreements in place, you wouldn't consider MS Flight Sim anything other than a first party game would you?

 

[PaintTinJr]

Render resolution will always affect memory usage. The question is by how much, because we don't know what kind of resolution the PS6 and the handheld will use.
Let's imagine a game is running at 720p. That is 1280x720x32/8= 3.5MB.
But if a game is running a 1080p. That is 1920x1080x32/8= 7.9MB.
And at 1440p that is 2560x1440p= 14MB.

Modern games will use dozens of rendering buffers, for all sort of things. Though some buffers will use 32bits, other 16bits, and other even 8bits.
So the difference can go to up to 1 or 2 GB of vram.
But still, not enough for the 24 vs 30GB, like you said.

The difference between 30 and 60 automatically gives a factor of a half, and given that PSSR uses Temporal AA as a baseline, even staying with 60fps and halving the temporal history will have a similar impact on memory use for those held renderbuffers. Also at small screen size the in memory LoD of models can be much less too

 

[winjer]

The difference between 30 and 60 automatically gives a factor of a half, and given that PSSR uses Temporal AA as a baseline, even staying with 60fps and halving the temporal history will have a similar impact on memory use for those held renderbuffers. Also at small screen size the in memory LoD of models can be much less too

Also, lower resolution means lower Mips with higher quality are not used as much.

 

[Jam Dingo]

It can even be a decrease in resolution. PS5 ex-clusives mostly target around
1440p. PS6 can target 1080p with FSR 4 or 5 and still look better.

Yeah but often the cost including the upscale nets off. I get your point, but overall I'd expect an increase in image quality and for that cost to basically be free or nearly free to the GPU via the ML hardware. I'd guess that of the ~3x GPU increase, maybe 2-2.5x will remain for pure fidelity increases. And that combined with huge increase in RT, will mean a true generational leap. Not a revolution, but more like PS3 to PS4 than PS4 to PS5.

 

[IDKFA]

I think we're underestimating just how compelling a handheld is that plays all PS4 games, all PS5 games, and ALMOST all (>99%) of PS6 games.

I don't think it's at all clear that many people would be concentrating on the lack of an absolute ironclad guarantee that every single PS6 game would be supported. It could be a big deal, but it certainly wouldn't be for me. So who knows really.

I'd buy it just for the ability to play PS4/5 games on the go. I'm with you on that one.

However, I still think it would be a hard sell for most people and how would Sony communicate this? That it will play some PS6 games, but that's up to developers? I'm not sure most people would be up for that. When a console is launched, you expect it to be supported throughout its life cycle.

We'll have to wait and see. To be honest I'm struggling to see how Sony can get a handheld that plays PS6 games and make it affordable. Maybe somebody with tech knowledge can help me understand that.