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[LectureMaster]

Marathon cheaters will be immediately permabanned, Bungie says

"These things are non-negotiable."

www.polygon.com

---

Bungie has announced that anyone found cheating in Marathon "will be permanently banned forever, no second chances."

Titled "networking and security," Bungie's official blog post details plenty of insight into how the upcoming extraction shooter will work from a technical standpoint, but the fact cheaters will immediately face the full wrath of the banhammer is refreshing. This is in contrast to Embark Studios, which uses a three-strikes system for its popular exctraction shooter Arc Raiders. First offenders are banned for 30 days, second time around it's 60 days, followed by a permanent ban for those who attempt to cheat thrice.



When asked for clarification on X, the official Marathon account reiterated the same line in the blog post. However, Bungie hasn't clarified whether a permanent ban means the offender will only have their account banned, or whether it will be a more damaging hardware or IP address ban.



"The world of Tau Ceti IV is a dangerous place," explained Marathon engineering director Eamon McKenzie in a short 30-second video. "You should either be dying because Tau Ceti IV and other players got you, or that you made a bad decision. These are the things we have to get right if we're making a game in this genre. It's non-negotiable."

Chris Butcher, technical director, followed that up: "You want to know that it's a level playing field. All of the information that you're getting needs to be precise and accurate."

Other highlights from the blog post include how Marathon uses a server-side fog of war mechanic to help "keep gameplay secure from exploits that reveal the location of items or the contents of containers," aka "wall hacks" or "ESP cheats." Popular anticheat service, BattlEye, is also used.

The team is also confident that "players with a good internet connection can't be shot behind cover" — one of the biggest gripes many players have in modern online FPS games — thanks to the "new high-performance networking model" included with the game's dedicated servers.

Finally, Bungie confirmed that if you lose your connection in the middle of the run, reconnecting and continuing the same run is possible. If that doesn't happen due to the game's servers or network infrastructure having issues, players will get back the gear they started the run with. Nice.

 

[LectureMaster]

 

[Mr Hyde]

Cheaters are cancer so good on Bungie for drawing a clear line.

 

[Dorfdad]

Why make statements like this it just sounds like a challenge to hackers, and im 100% sure they will be able to spoof, or just buy the game again on another device and keep hacking. Well worth if for those who will grow a fanbase from cheats and make money on YouTube videos. Sadly.

 

[Kilau]

Don't invite Clara over.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

Good.
I was actually surprised that I was killed by a cheater apparently in Arc raiders (I didn't even know) and Embark sent me back the gear I lost through my inbox in the game.

 

[uncreativename]

That doesn't really sound like much but PR speak to me, but the other stuff they mention about not being able to be shot from behind cover and server-side fog of war sound like important steps forward. Good for them.

 

[jshackles]

 

[Diddy X]

They might end up regretting that one.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

Send them to jail. 15 years.

If you want respect you have to treat people well and not cheat like a rusty cunt that ruins it for others.

 

[simpatico]

I'm still pretty romantic about the idea that one day all PvP will be a cyberpunk arms race of hacks. Beats the heck out of kernel level anticheat. At least there would be some excitement and newness. Plus, with those AI monitors in production, I don't see how Bungie plans on detecting them. AntiCheat is a fool's errand these days. Let the boys go to war.

 

[Rentahamster]

Don't invite Clara over.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Means nothing, the main issue surrounding cheaters remains propely identifying them. All a no-tolerance approach brings to the table are either unhappy players who got false positives, or cheaters who remain in the game regardless if they aren't caught by the system.

 

[Cumulus]

That should be common sense and common practice everywhere. I`m always baffled to see xy-strike systems and temp bans.

 

[kevboard]

did they completely revamp their aim assist?

because if not, you won't need cheats. that was basically a built-in aim bot

 

[uncreativename]

did they completely revamp their aim assist?

because if not, you won't need cheats. that was basically a built-in aim bot

lol, a multiplayer game where the devs enable you to be able to do all the crazy things that hackers get up to as part of the regular game might be fun , someone's probably already made it.

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

BattleEye?

 

[Pokedot]

Just like they did with Destiny that's full of cheaters?

 

[DeepEnigma]

They perma-banned their art stealer

 

[Loomy]

Why make statements like this it just sounds like a challenge to hackers

To reassure people that they've put in a lot of thought and work into addressing the problem. Especially if you compare it to the situation in Arc Raiders right now.

That doesn't really sound like much but PR speak to me, but the other stuff they mention about not being able to be shot from behind cover and server-side fog of war sound like important steps forward. Good for them.

It's a public summary of a fully detailed breakdown of how they plan on address the situation

Just like they did with Destiny that's full of cheaters?

Here's hoping they're using learnings from D2 and they can retroactively apply some of this to D2 and whatever comes next.

Why the cynicism?

Also, I hope if someone is found cheating in Marathon, they ban them from Destiny 2 as well.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Cheat will make me God.

 

[sainraja]

Send them to jail. 15 years.

If you want respect you have to treat people well and not cheat like a rusty cunt that ruins it for others.

It should be a virtual jail in the game so that they can at least login to the game.

 

[EDMIX]

As it should

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I'm gonna be so bad they'll think I'm a farming bot a cheater created.

 

[Hoddi]

That's just another reason not to buy Marathon. I'm not putting my faith in a system that doesn't even account for software bugs.

This is in contrast to Embark Studios, which uses a three-strikes system for its popular exctraction shooter Arc Raiders. First offenders are banned for 30 days, second time around it's 60 days, followed by a permanent ban for those who attempt to cheat thrice.

This is the actual correct approach.

 

[Loomy]

That's just another reason not to buy Marathon. I'm not putting my faith in a system that doesn't even account for software bugs.

This is the actual correct approach.

Yeah, no. By the time you get to the 3rd strike, that individual has - potentially - been fucking up the experience for everyone else for 3 months. Why wait?

If you think Arc Raiders is following the correct approach, you haven't been playing it. What you're probably going to see is Embark moving more in this direction.

 

[Spooky Scary Skeleton]

I still don't understand how these devs never figured out like From Software did. Jut put the cheaters in a separate own server. Sooner or later, they will just get sick of playing against other cheaters who has same or even better advantage. The reason why this works is because these cheaters sometimes never figure out they are actually blocked from accessing the normal server, so they won't notice it after while when they find out they are constantly put in same matchmaking with other cheaters, preventing them from constantly creating alt accounts immediately.

 

[Hoddi]

Yeah, no. By the time you get to the 3rd strike, that individual has - potentially - been fucking up the experience for everyone else for 3 months. Why wait?

If you think Arc Raiders is following the correct approach, you haven't been playing it.

Where are you getting 3 months from? They'll be banned for those 3 months so they obviously won't be bothering anyone during that time.

The simple fact is that software issues can absolutely trigger bans on PC. I got banned from a Call of Duty because AMD's own Ryzen X3D cache driver moved data around in memory while the game was running. I'm not taking that kind of chance on a game that I'm paying for unless there's some leeway.

 

[Spukc]

 

[Loomy]

I got banned from a Call of Duty because AMD's own Ryzen X3D cache driver moved data around in memory while the game was running. I'm not taking that kind of chance on a game that I'm paying for unless there's some leeway.

There is leeway. Like in every other game, you can appeal your ban. This is directly from the blog post:

We are taking a strong stance against cheating and anyone found to be cheating or developing cheats will be permanently banned from playing Marathon forever, no second chances. That said, no system is perfect so we will have an appeals system to monitor for any issues in detection.

----------------------------

I still don't understand how these devs never figured out like From Software did. Jut put the cheaters in a separate own server.

They have figured it out. It's just not a good solution. You're paying for upkeep and maintenance on a server for cheaters. Just get them out of the game

Sooner or later, they will just get sick of playing against other cheaters who has same or even better advantage. The reason why this works is because these cheaters sometimes never figure out they are actually blocked from accessing the normal server, so they won't notice it after while when they find out they are constantly put in same matchmaking with other cheaters, preventing them from constantly creating alt accounts immediately.

They 100% notice. Just like Warzone cheaters notice when they're put in cheater lobbies, and CS:2 players notice when they're playing against people with low "Trust Factor".

Everyone is trying to figure this out, and there's no 1 full proof solution, it's why everyone has their own.

 

[Jesb]

Start bricking consoles

 

[Hoddi]

There is leeway. Like in every other game, you can appeal your ban. This is directly from the blog post:



----------------------------

That's fair. But having dealt with Activision (who didn't even respond to my bug report) then I'm not sure how much I'll trust their support teams.

If it gets banging reviews then I might try it on PS5 though.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Cheaters will find some other game to play, accusing other players will tick casuals off, I respect the anti cheating though.

 

[Ribi]

Banning half the player base before the game even launches is certainly a choice

 

[Cert.in.Death]

I mean, they already have your $40.00. Cheat at your own peril.

 

[Kamina]

Yet all the fucktards with lagswitches in Destiny were left unharmed

 

[Dorfdad]

The problem with all this is it's really just PR. Yes they would love it to be successful but the reality is that it takes time to detect / deploy / test and distribute anti cheats, so long that most likely people have moved on to new ones before the old ones are patched up.

They are always behind. They only true way to save online multiplayer competitive is to make it all cloud based, and I'm aware there are ways to do things there as well the problem will vastly less of an annoyance.

I know you don't want to hear that, but having the game code out of users hands is the fix.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Marathon would need a player base first before they start worrying about cheaters

So start there Bungie and work your way up

 

[yurinka]

All games should permaban cheaters the first time they're confirmed to be cheating.

 

[Loomy]

The problem with all this is it's really just PR.

Is it just PR if they have taken actions to support the claims?

Yes they would love it to be successful but the reality is that it takes time to detect / deploy / test and distribute anti cheats, so long that most likely people have moved on to new ones before the old ones are patched up.

They are always behind. They only true way to save online multiplayer competitive is to make it all cloud based, and I'm aware there are ways to do things there as well the problem will vastly less of an annoyance.

I wouldn't call the latency issues that come with cloud gaming an "annoyance"

 

[Paasei]

That's nice. Let's see if this game is worth cheating in first, shall we?

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

Where are you getting 3 months from? They'll be banned for those 3 months so they obviously won't be bothering anyone during that time.

The simple fact is that software issues can absolutely trigger bans on PC. I got banned from a Call of Duty because AMD's own Ryzen X3D cache driver moved data around in memory while the game was running. I'm not taking that kind of chance on a game that I'm paying for unless there's some leeway.

What makes you so sure of what triggered the ban seeing as they don't tell you why you get banned? Did it get overturned?

There is leeway. Like in every other game, you can appeal your ban. This is directly from the blog post:

If it's anything like COD there is no effective appeal process. You don't get told why you got banned, so you can't write up any sort of reasonable defense since you don't know what you're being accused of. At best it seems like maybe someone looks at the account and sees "oh aimbot detected, yeah, that's bad, ban upheld!" Also per Activision, the actual policy is you can only get your ban overturned if someone took over your account. That's it, otherwise they consider themselves infallible:

Regardless, all they said in this article was that they're using BattleEye, which Destiny 2 already uses, and the anti-cheat in Destiny 2 seems largely ineffective as the PVP streamers run into cheaters all the time and even in PVE it's a little out of control as evidenced by the vast majority of day 1 clears in the last raid having been cheated.

 

[Loomy]

Regardless, all they said in this article was that they're using BattleEye, which Destiny 2 already uses, and the anti-cheat in Destiny 2 seems largely ineffective as the PVP streamers run into cheaters all the time and even in PVE it's a little out of control as evidenced by the vast majority of day 1 clears in the last raid having been cheated.

They said a little more than that. Including this bit:

• We've rebuilt our game security stack from the ground up for Marathon, in addition to our extra layer of security provided by BattlEye.

So at the very least, it's different from D2. Whether or not it's an improvement, we'll see during the server slam and over the next few months.

 

[The Cockatrice]

They cant stop cheaters. Many multi-billion companies tried, failed. They can ban the dumb ones that troll, but the smarter ones? No chance.

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

They said a little more than that. Including this bit:

• We've rebuilt our game security stack from the ground up for Marathon, in addition to our extra layer of security provided by BattlEye.

So at the very least, it's different from D2. Whether or not it's an improvement, we'll see during the server slam and over the next few months.

Fair enough, I missed the blog post in the OP and read the useless Polygon article instead. Reading the actual blog post... there's a decent amount of marketing/jargony BSing. They address a class of client-side stuff in Destiny (i.e. the kind of stuff that lets you nuke an immune raid boss with 20 million health in one bullet). There's stuff about the 'fog of war' in their model which really wouldn't be super relevant to Destiny unless it's way more aggressive than I assume it is.

Stuff like this:

Our new high-performance networking model includes server-side adjudication of every hit with per-shot tracking and redundant transmission to reduce the effect of packet loss and ensure that every bullet lands. The dedicated server performs aim compensation with rewind on every shot individually. This allows you to hit shots reliably on enemy players, even when they are moving rapidly in and out of cover, while you are compensating for bullet travel time. It also means that players with a good Internet connection can't be shot behind cover.

I don't know... unless the bullet travel time is suuuper slow, it's probably idiotic to say that you "can't be shot behind cover". The qualifier about players with good internet is borderline meaningless as well as 95+% of the playerbase thinks they have good internet because muh 1 Gig. Some of them know that a janky WiFi setup might cause them problems, but generally they don't understand that raw throughput doesn't mean that packets can't be dropped. Or that... issues somewhere on the Internet somewhere between you and the game server might affect you and it's not always "the server is shit!".

The Marathon Fog of War system runs on the game server to limit the regions of a map that players have knowledge of, based on what they should be able to sense in their surroundings.

This helps keep gameplay secure from exploits that reveal the location of items or the contents of containers. It also helps keep your position hidden from other players' clients, reducing the effectiveness of "wall hacks" or "ESP cheats."

This might have some relevance for loot, but keeping teh hackerz from seeing players they won't be able to shoot anytime soon isn't that big of a win. They can just sprint around the map full speed without a care in the world hunting people down, and the hacks will kick in when someone is in range.

In addition to the server-side security measures listed above, we've invested in several client-side security upgrades. We use a combination of third-party game security software plus additional proprietary security layers, many of which are new for Marathon. Our security includes both user-mode and kernel-mode components.

Game security is a never-ending arms war with bad actors. This means sharing details about methodologies for protecting our games can inform those bad actors how to defeat them. With that in mind, we hope this high-level snapshot gives you an idea of how we are addressing client security.

Hey, mention of kernel-mode. So... we gotta do the whole SecureBoot thing right? Surely that's what they're saying here, riiiight? That's kind of what I was looking for all along. While Battlefield Redsec hasn't been an entirely cheater free experience, I run into orders of magnitude fewer cheaters than I did in my PUBG or Warzone days.

 

[cormack12]

Im going to cheat to get banned. Otherwise I'd lose my life to this game

 

[mdkirby]

Good… but I have questions

1. Can there be false positives? Like is that a thing?

2. If it's a hardware ban, is there a maintained searchable list? Like people sell their consoles, can retailers check the ID against this list to determine if they should accept the purchase, given a new owner likely won't be best pleased about being banned from games they didn't cheat in.

 

[winjer]

Good. Fuck cheaters.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Makes sense. All games should be this way. Also, should be banned from the entire platform from MP gaming. SP gaming not bothering other people thats fine.

 

[Moondoggy]

Destiny 1 and 2 multiplayer says otherwise.