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KeplerL2: Valve is targeting 2028 for the Steam Deck 2
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Opinion Rumor Hardware
MCH2024
Member
Yea.You sure about that?
They charge Premium margins for their modern stuff, but are flexible with their N-2 stuff.
MCH2024
Member
Z3 Extreme is Zen 6 + "RDNA 4m" (RDNA3.5+ RDNA4 ML) [Medusa Point 1, what else would it be?]
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Merline
Banned
Knock off the trolling
The Steam Deck 2 feels completely unnecessary. By then, the upcoming PS handheld will likely dominate both in sales and technology. Valve is basically walking into a losing battle.
They'd honestly be better off canceling it. No one is going to need another PC handheld when there's a proper PS HH offering access to your entire PS library.
They'd honestly be better off canceling it. No one is going to need another PC handheld when there's a proper PS HH offering access to your entire PS library.
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Topher
Identifies as young
PS doesn't include the "entire library" of Steam.
hardwood007
Member
Yeah I might get the PS handheld, depending on their execution, but I definitely need a pc handheld. This generation, I really started building up my steam library
Topher
Identifies as young
Same. I'd love a PS handheld, but I've got so much on Steam that I can't play on PS.
OverHeat
« generous god »
PSP and VITA disagree
Minsc
Gold Member
Satire right? Because that pretty much rings true only if you own a PS5 and not any other system. Otherwise, I doubt your PS library is the only thing that matters to you.
What about Nintendo games, their handheld is arguably more essential than this PS6 one, even disregarding the PC/Deck (which can run the Nintendo games, unlike the Sony handheld).
The whole dominating in sales & tech is the giveaway, because the two are historically almost never linked. The best tech rarely ever combines with the best sales. Unless maybe you're not counting the devices with more sales, like the Nintendo ones.
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I wasn't selling any
Member
Is it bait or are Sony fanboys really that limited in their believes?
Steam Deck is an open platform, the vast majority of Steam users don't give a fuck about Sony's closed ecosystem or their woke exclusives.
Slimboy Fat
Member
According to rumors "Medusa Halo Mini" will have 24 Rdna 5 CU's and presumably 12 zen6 cores. Maybe Valve can get a semi-custom solution again and cut that chip down by a third and build a handheld below 1K euros, but that's a big maybe
Slimboy Fat
Member
Isn't that a chip with 8 CU? Z2 Extreme has 16. I know AMD segmentation and product naming make about as much sense as an acid trip but so far they haven't shipped a sequentially named successor to a gaming product with considerably less performance than its predecessor.
MCH2024
Member
It's not called that it's Medusa Premium (2028).
But those parts are not really Ryzen but more Radeon with CCD glued. Very good chance they get outright cancelled.
But really remember it's Medusa Premium the pricing doesn't lend itself to a steam deck 2.
I don't know why it's hard to read between the lines of what Kepler is saying. So I will say it.
Steam Deck 2 is 99.9% a medusa point derivative with RDNA3.5 (+RDNA4 ML).
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Slimboy Fat
Member
I guess I didn't want to believe they would make us wait 6+ years for a machine with rdna 3.5 but I needed to come back to earth and see the writing on the wall i.e the Steam Machine anemic specs
MCH2024
Member
They didn't want to. But that's all AMD has. Valve can't guarantee big enough volume to make a chip from scratch.
Their major issue is their blanket unwillingness to work with Nvidia lmao. And it's also unlikely that a company that has been so hostile to GeForce would get the Nintendo treatment. They are stuck with AMD whose focus is on datacenter and whose consumer product line moto is basically "minimal viable product".
memoryman3
Member
Nvidia would provide them a chip? When are the Intel + Nvidia APUs coming out. Those could be interesting products for handhelds.
MCH2024
Member
Late 2028 lol. It's a titan lake Variant.
Nvidia has N1 | N1X out soon (18 months late, were supposed to launch with Blackwell)
Also N2 | N2X (supposed to launch Late 27 with Rubin Gaming).
memoryman3
Member
Are those x86 parts? Not interested in ARM (compatibility).
MCH2024
Member
N1 | N1X | N2 | N2X are ARM.
Nvidia makes GPU Tile and MediaTek does the CPU tile with some borrowed Nvidia IP (this arrangement turned out to be a disaster for N1X).
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MCH2024
Member
Specifically for I was coping for Nvidia N1 to be chosen for Steam Deck 2.
Basically Small ARM CPU + RTX 5030 iGPU
on TSMC N3E.PlayStation handheld would have been embarrassed. Alas.
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memoryman3
Member
Specifically for I was coping for Nvidia N1 to be chosen for Steam Deck 2.
Basically Small ARM CPU + RTX 5030 iGPU
PlayStation handheld would have been embarrassed. Alas.
I think a Nvidia iGPU + Intel x86 CPU would be highly desired in the handheld space. Asus and Lenovo could incorporate them in their Windows handhelds. Xbox Ally X2?
Slimboy Fat
Member
Z2 Extreme is around 90% faster than van gogh at 35 W using 16 rdna 3.5 CU. It sounds like the Steam Deck 2 will be quite disappointing performance wise. If Asus, Lenovo or whoever slaps Medusa Premium into a chassi they'll embarrass Valve even if the cost is 2-3 times higher. One could hope for an official SteamOS version with that chipset
I've had mine (LCD) from launch and love it. Pretty much go-to gaming device.
Slimboy Fat
Member
A slimmer of hope is that there are some vague rumors of Xbox preparing a handheld for their next official hardware lineup, with a custom chip this time
Topher
Identifies as young
Yeah, but Valve really hasn't shown any interest in winning the battle in power. They have hit the sweet spot in price and battery life with the first SD, which is why it has sold so well. I expect they will do the same with SD 2. Any handheld can run Steam OS so doesn't really make much difference.
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memoryman3
Member
Steam Deck got popular because it smacked competing devices in terms of performance/watt/price balance, including Nintendo's Switch 1.
Topher
Identifies as young
There really weren't any mainstream devices when Steam Deck launched. Just the direct stuff out of China like Onexplayer and GPD. But yeah, I agree the overall balance of the device is what made it obtain wider appeal. Asus and Lenovo have provided solid options though. Competition has been good.
J Required
Banned
You seem hurt. LMAO
hardwood007
Member
I was thinking about this the other day and was like, what if Valve ordered a chip from AMD that kept the same core count for the cpu and gpu, but updated it to Zen 5 and RDNA 3.5. Would a "custom chip" like that really be that expensive to design?
A big part of the steam deck APU's efficiency over Z1 and Z2 extreme is because the CPU core count is low compared to the Z1 and Z2 extreme.
Slimboy Fat
Member
They've been talking about a "generational leap". If that turns out to be a 60% performance bump I think people will be disappointed. Many current games will simply not be playable in any decent state at that performance level, never mind next gen games.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
$1200?
Topher
Identifies as young
A lot is going to depend on how things shake out in the market. Those powerful handhelds are now over $1k. I'd be more disappointed in a high priced Steam Deck 2 than a handheld that doesn't stand toe to toe with the most powerful on the market. But we will see.
I'm sure Nividia were ecstatic to offload some ancient T239s on 8nm.
MCH2024
Member
There is no offloading. T239 was made for Nintendo. It could have been fabricated on a TSMC EUV Node, Samsung EUV node, etc.
They chose SEC 7LPH | 8NP because it was the cheapest node they can use. It's Nintendo.
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Jesb
Member
Valve seems to be ok with not going bleeding edge tech wise judging from what steam machine specs were to be, also they probably don't want to go the route of having a handheld in the 1k range. So it wouldn't be surprising if steamdeck 2 is not the most powerful handheld device.
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Its a cut-down derivative of the T234 automotive chip and a relatively ancient fossil from back in 2021....
Nvidia Tegra T239 GPU? Possible Nintendo Switch 2 Graphics Hardware Analyzed
The rumors about 4K might not be born out, but the upcoming Tegra will be a big step up.
www.extremetech.com
Bitstream
Member
Why would nvidia bother making a custom chip specifically for Nintendo and then selling it at cost? What do they stand to gain from this?
Minsc
Gold Member
I see 5070 vs 4060 thrown around. Who knows, maybe 50% best case? It's supposed to be targeting the same TDP but with better specs (also keep in mind these TDPs are higher than what normal handhelds run - they target 60-80W and can scale up to 160W - handhelds normally run around 20-40W and in Deck 2's case probably closer to the 20W). Which would be pretty amazing, but the bigger question is at what cost. I don't know if a $1500 base model is really going to convince that many people to jump on board, with the way prices are going.
Really cost and actual availability are the biggest issues. We're talking about 2 years out still, and who knows if it'll be delayed or not. Same with Deck 2. I see the thread is putting 2028, but could easily be 2029 or 2030 if the prices aren't aligned with the number Valve wants to release at.
If the Deck 2 BOM in 2028 is $1200 and Valve wants to release at $600, then they wait. Maybe 2029 BOM is $1500 and 2030 BOM is $1900, and we don't see Deck 2 for another 10 years when prices actually start going down again. Valve has more patience than you or I do, guaranteed. They win the waiting game. Only way to lose is actually believe they will release it in 2028 until they themselves say they will.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
MCH2024
Member
Getting their technologies and hardware widely used and to counterbalance AMD running to console after getting crushed on PC. The first partnership was more a coincidence (tegra X1 flopped), but Switch1 sold like wildfire. And Nvidia has deemed it a worthwhile partnership to continue.
For the record, AMD also defacto sells into consoles at cost. Had Nvidia demanded their usual juicy margins, Nintendo is under no obligation to continue using Tegra.
It's also similar to T234 that they already had planned to make for Tegra. It's a very low cost effort.
MCH2024
Member
What Medusa Chip?
Steam Deck 2? 25% of the GPU Performance at most.
Medusa Point 1? 35%
Etc
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MCH2024
Member
Yes it's based on Tegra IP because that's Nvidia's SoC IP. It was still made to Nintendo specifications though.Its a cut-down derivative of the T234 automotive chip and a relatively ancient fossil from back in 2021....
Nvidia Tegra T239 GPU? Possible Nintendo Switch 2 Graphics Hardware Analyzed
The rumors about 4K might not be born out, but the upcoming Tegra will be a big step up.
Minsc
Gold Member
Oh Medusa Point - then yes, I was thinking Medusa Halo vs Strix Halo, so no increases at all for Medusa Point I'd say.
It looks like Medusa Point will be worse than Strix Halo, largely because of the TDP drop, and also because it has less cores and 1/4th the GPU compute units (8-12 vs 40 in Strix Halo).
I don't see any world where a Ryzen AI Max+ 395 running at 100W+ is beaten by a Medusa Point running at 30W, with a fraction of the resources the Strix Halo has - I totally missed the comparison was putting the high-end Strix APU meant to compete with dGPUs vs a mainstream APU meant for handhelds and ultrabooks. Versus a Medusa Halo, then yes, there's a big leap, but will any handhelds see the Medusa Halo? Certainly not the Deck 2 I'd say.
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VolticArchangel
Member
They were considering Qualcomm which is even more
Bruh...
How the hell do you run your existing library, with an architecture jump, especially modern games? Brute force x86 emulation on arm? I know Windows emulation has come so far these days on arm devices, but those phones are flagships and we can bet our bottom dollar that Valve won't go for high end Snapdragon soc's.
Is their recent work on Proton, adding the FEX compatibility layer for arm64, related to this?
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