mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Did you mean to respond to that post? I don't see how your response fits....
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Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
PS6S Budget Model Rumored at $350-$550 According to MLID
- Thread starter Merline
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Sacrifice has to be made somewhere to get to that critical price point. Do you prefer a Canis-based console instead? You've been adamant in this thread you don't want that.
There should be 1 (at least 1) set top box console bearing PS6 name that sells for at least $499. I don't want that to be using Canis APU.
Now you want more power and more RAM? Go PC, or wait for the PS6 Pro. There's nothing stopping Sony from releasing another PRO with much bigger APU and RAM. They can sell it for $1000 and it wouldn't matter strategically speaking.
Now, about that Canis. It should exist as a handheld and only as a handheld (with TV output), and not called PS6 portable/handheld or something. Call it something else. PlayStation Go sounds fine.
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Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
Yooooo... so you gonna starve Path Tracing capable GPU of VRAM because you want that $120 saving off the MSRP? O...kay......
Psst. Imma tell you a secret. NOBODY ELSE READ DIS ITS JUST BETWEEN US G'S! so just between you and me...I SAID STOP READING BUTTINSKYS! i personally think launching a hardware that no one wants to develop for nor pay software for, that really only makes the investment back if Sony pads extra Benjamin or two driving up the msrp well past the competition, is a teeeeeerible idea...
asdasdasdbb
Member
Possible yes, cheaper probably not enough to make it worth it. Going from 10 chips to 5 would make a difference.
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Yooooo it's tight but it should be enough. That's infinitely better than Canis-based console with 24GB of infinitely slow ram and botched CPU.
20GB of dedicated GDDR7 should be enough for games rendered low res natively. AI upscaling will clean the image and give us more pixels.
no it's not
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I don't think so. Sony likes to do clamshell config. Going from 10 chips to 5 would mean it's not clamshell.
Can you give a ballpark figure on how much cheaper it is using 5 chips of cutting edge 4GB than 10 chips of old-school 2GB.
How do they magically spawn more DDR PHYs?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Or focus on getting a proper PS6 out at $700-$750 and eat the cost initially.
Especially if the BOM will be $750 with no disc drive and a 1TB SSD.
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
If they wish hard enough it can happen party pooper!
How did PS4 Pro do it? Can't be repeated anymore?
They would need another full tapeout with redone floorplan and it would make the SoC a bit more expensive to produce, all to end up with something significantly worse than the 30GB SKU.
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
You gonna have to explain the whole PS5 Pro RAM set up for us plebs then.
They have DDR PHYs?
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
Dunno. Does it?
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
BOOOOOO~ BOOOOOO DIS MAN~No one has done die shot analysis of Viola so...
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
He was trying to cheer you guys up!
Disco Dave
Member
The PeasantStation 6 will likely become the dominant next gen platform. Not that I'm complaining as I think dev costs are too expensive currently and I'd rather they focus on not chasing graphics so much. Heck, knowing what we know now, I'd have been happy if they scrapped the PS5/XSX generation altogether and stuck with PS4 until 2028.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Because people in the real world bought a Series S as a cheap way to play their games. My son bought one as a cheaper way to play live service games with his buddies. I bought one because it was cheap.
Having a cheaper hardware option is a good idea. There are cheaper GPUs than the 5090, so why can't there be a cheaper entry level console? It makes sense, especially in this economic climate.
There are minspec requirements for memory for a machine thats going to be around for 7-8 years. Its feedback from developers over the past 7 years. I dont think a 20GB Orion based console would work since the hardware is fixed for 7 years. If anything developers are asking for more memory. Sony is in a tough position because if they release below minspec memory consumers wont have any reason to buy the new consoles, the games wont look materially different, and we are already at significant diminishing returns. the last thing they can do is skimp on memory.
ngl it actually looks terrible. You dont need a DF analysis to see that it looks bad. MS tried the cheaper box thing with the Series S and it flopped spectacularly. I dont think anyone is looking to replicate that.
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HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
99% of console buyers aren't NeoGAF forum users. They never even read the acronym PSSR before in their entire lives, let alone know what upscaling, framerate, or VRR are. These are fundamentally the same people who buy Switches. They love small, portable and cute. They don't care for RAM amounts or whatever. And these people will determine which SKU will be more successful.
Hector Hall
Member
For that purpose it would be better to issue a new iteration of PS5 or PS5 Pro, 3nm,without disc drive and 1TB of SSD and slightly modified hard for PSSR3 support.
Sure. But I have a question? Are you okay with Canis-based low power slow 24GB ram set top box PS6? Because if so, you are not consistent and making contradictory stances.
Now if you say Canis should not be called PS6 and no mandate for all PS6 games then I can see your statements making sense.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
What do you mean "flopped"? Sales wise it did very well IIRC. I'm pretty sure it out sold the Series X, but correct me if I'm wrong.
Even the smallest fabs are over 10 billion.
Felessan
Member
It certainly less than 1bn of real loss
Forums astroturfers though live in another reality and count everything they could into "failure"
Mr.Phoenix
Member
PS5pro has its 16GB of GDDR6 and 2GB of DDR4. You can't have the same memory controller for these different types of RAM, and each PHY controller takes up die space.
The whole reason Sony is even going with 5 MEM PHY (160bit bus) on the PS6 vs 8 (256bit bus) on the PS5 is to save that precious die space. This is becaue that PHY controller does not scale well at all when it comes to shrinking nodes, so the crazy thing is, you go to a smaller node, your compute logic takes up less space on the chip, but your PHY controller seems to take up more space because it can't be shrunk as efficiently.
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
First, its DDR5, and second, SUUUUUIUUUUUS~
Haint
Member
Concord, Factions, and (seemingly) Marathon would come close very close to (if not exceed) a billion as a group, Bungie writedown would easily take it well over the top. Then there's Bend, Bluepoint GoW, Spiderman, Twisted Metal, Deviation, Deviation 2.0, very likely Fairgames, Horizon is 50/50. And not just the multi year developments, they paid a hefty premium up front to buy many of these studios just to shut them down or depreciate them. I'd say 2 billion's pretty much the bare minimum.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
My bad, meant to type 5, not 4...
Tobimacoss
Member
To those who don't want a Canis TV box. Imagine this scenario.
PS6 Portable for $549, PS6 Orion for $899. Multiplayer paywall on both.
Vs
Xbox Ally For $599 and $999 SKUs, The $999 SKU having the 24 CU chip. Then a $499 Xbox PC/Console for the same 24 CU chip. And all of that without online multiplayer paywall.
What will the masses go for?
Sony's options are either do a Canis TV box, or keep selling PS5s at $550. I think the PS5 option would be worse long term.
PS6 Portable for $549, PS6 Orion for $899. Multiplayer paywall on both.
Vs
Xbox Ally For $599 and $999 SKUs, The $999 SKU having the 24 CU chip. Then a $499 Xbox PC/Console for the same 24 CU chip. And all of that without online multiplayer paywall.
What will the masses go for?
Sony's options are either do a Canis TV box, or keep selling PS5s at $550. I think the PS5 option would be worse long term.
You're not getting Medusa Premium at those prices lmao
Emmy Ator Best
Member
Sony will get clowned if they actually try to sell this trash.
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
If AT4 based APU can't be in a $1000 handheld PC, that's a problem. AMD really needs to provide a 16CU option in that space.
$500 STB? Yeah, that seems about $100 too low.
Tobimacoss
Member
$699 then? What would the best prices be for 24, 48, 68 CU devices?
You stated BOM for Helix Premium Console is $900, still the same? So $1200 sold price?
MCH2024
Member
Tbqh this shows Sony's failure.
15GB PS6 + 4GB DDR was the right thing to do.
combo PHYs are a thing.
MCH2024
Member
No.
Console pricing is made possible through a volume commitment and paying for things like mask sets and such. Furthermore, you are expected to do things like validation and testing and as of more recently also contribute co-engineering. In exchange you get pricing to cost instead of pricing to value like normal.
AMD Charged 300$ for Z2 Extreme. Because it wasn't a semi-custom chip.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I think you have companies that legitimately care about the affordability of gaming and clearly Microsoft isn't one of those. I don't want to bring that up for no reason but I am not a big fan depending on the specs and especially memory, of the style of systems but if it's actually well thought out and a very low barrier of entry then I think we are all just a victim of the modern world economy.
It's like people want the gaming industry to thrive but then when companies are actually making some decisions that are trying to accommodate gamers during the turbulent times, I can't see how you can't understand there's some kinds of restrictions or things that not everybody wants to make $1,000 or more devices.
I haven't read through all the comments but I think some of these key points are missed because either people are maybe not old enough or don't see the big picture or forget the situations that we are in.
The only reason I'm not a big fan of the series s, and I've owned one just like an X, is mainly two of the ways that they gimped it, otherwise we may be seeing slightly more confident ports this many years in.
Another thing people have to remember is Sony is not Microsoft and they have different designs and efficiencies that they create to get around certain bottlenecks. I think ever since PlayStation 4 they have realized a lot and I think having somebody like Mark Corny does at the helm has clearly shaped their vision for the better at least on the hardware side.
Personally I'm very excited for what's happening on all platforms just because I love the hardware but it's hard to deny that Sony, with this approach with the console and handheld variant, is probably poised to have a better generation and in my opinion, a better generation software wise.
It's like people want the gaming industry to thrive but then when companies are actually making some decisions that are trying to accommodate gamers during the turbulent times, I can't see how you can't understand there's some kinds of restrictions or things that not everybody wants to make $1,000 or more devices.
I haven't read through all the comments but I think some of these key points are missed because either people are maybe not old enough or don't see the big picture or forget the situations that we are in.
The only reason I'm not a big fan of the series s, and I've owned one just like an X, is mainly two of the ways that they gimped it, otherwise we may be seeing slightly more confident ports this many years in.
Another thing people have to remember is Sony is not Microsoft and they have different designs and efficiencies that they create to get around certain bottlenecks. I think ever since PlayStation 4 they have realized a lot and I think having somebody like Mark Corny does at the helm has clearly shaped their vision for the better at least on the hardware side.
Personally I'm very excited for what's happening on all platforms just because I love the hardware but it's hard to deny that Sony, with this approach with the console and handheld variant, is probably poised to have a better generation and in my opinion, a better generation software wise.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
And like most on here, you just throw numbers out there as if there aren't rules to these things. How exactly is Sony to have done what you just said? In fact, I don't even know if you are serious.
No, they are not. While possible, they are avoided for a reason. And even when used, they are used within the same family of RAM, eg DDR5/LPDDR5... and never when combining RAM of different families i.e DDR + GDDR.
As I said, though, there are rules and common standard practices for these things.
Tobimacoss
Member
Yea, $499 might be too low. My original guesses were $600, $900, $1200 tiers for 24, 48, 68 CU power levels.
Sure, but MS, AMD, OEMs are building an entire portfolio of devices. So all the testing is taken into account with the 5 RDNA5 dies. And according to Proelite, MS would be ordering from AMD in bulk and supplying to OEMs at cost. That's how they plan to do volume for the entire portfolio.
Felessan
Member
Those a fantasies
Its ~200mio on Concord and 200mio on Bungie write down. All other pure speculations as we know nothing of scale of projects and size of losses
And for Marathon to be written down as a loss, we first should be sure that it's a failure. And not by Steam CCU thread, that is astroturfing bullshit.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Right, but at the same time, things point to the longest cross-gen period ever for the next gen
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Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
For PCIe x16 cards, I was guessing:
- AT4/24CU for 12GB LPDDR5X RX 10060 ($300) and 16GB LPDDR5X RX 10060XT ($350)
- AT3/48CU 24GB LPDDR5X RX 10070 ($550)
- AT2/68CU 18GB GDDR7 RX 10070XT ($700)
- AT0/96CU 36GB GDDR7 RX 10090XT ($1200)
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Nikodemos
Member
Vita TV and Series S weren't bad ideas, they were just improperly executed. Vita TV died because Vita died before it had even launched (there was no larger ecosystem to support it, plus Sony seemingly went out of their way to fuck up both backward- and cross-compatibility), and Series S was excessively cost-optimized (specs too low). I'm pretty sure the Series S to Series X ratio is something like 3:1, we know it kept the lights on at the Xbox division for the first couple of years.
Sony just needs to avoid the aforementioned pitfalls.
Sony just needs to avoid the aforementioned pitfalls.