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[Mr.Phoenix]

Has any next gen console launched without a single exclusive game? It would be a mistake to put out a $700 console without a single exclusive first party title that really shows off things that aren't possible on the last gen.

Depends on how you want to look at it. Or, more importantly, on how Sony is looking at it.

Make no mistake, Sony wouldn't care if you buy Intergalactic, Wolverine, GTA6, or The Witcher 4 on the PS6 or the PS5. As long as you are buying it on the PlayStation. Any more than they care if 80% of PS+ subs are on the PS5 and 20% on the PS6, as long as they can maintain or grow those subs.

I know its hard to imagine, because we have always looked at generations a certain way, but even last year, 30%+ of all games released had a PS4 version. That's 5 years into a new console generation, and we still had a healthy support of the previous gen. That is going to be a lot worse this next gen. Especially with the handheld existing, what we are going to see now is going to be more akin to what we see on PC, games will release, and they will run and perform a certain way based on what kinda hardware you have.

Eg. Only PS6H, PS5pro, and PS6 will have access to PSSR. Only PS5pro and PS6/H will get RT+ while PS5 gets basic RT, and only PS6 will get PT....etc. Stuff like that.

As for exclusives, I am sure we will get Astro...

 

[Shadowstar39]

These buyers that you speak of care more about their current ecosystem, than they care about paying the lowest possible price. Have yall already forgotten that the Xbox Series S was on sale for $300 a launch! How have you forgotten that already?!



No you're wrong. Most analysis have them at around 50-50 worldwide. The Series X shortages have been over for years.

Period	Series S Share	Series X Share
Early 2022 (Global)	~75%	~25%
2023 (US)	~50%+	~50%-
Sept 2024 LTD (US)	~49%	~51%
Sept 2024 Monthly (US)	~42%	~58%

September 2024 Sales Charts: Xbox Series X Is Finally Outselling the Series S

September 2024 Sales Charts: Xbox Series X Is Finally Outselling the Series S - IGN

It took four years, but the Xbox Series X is finally outselling the Xbox Series S in the United States by a slim margin, according to this month's report from Circana.

www.ign.com

Can yall stop believing this lie?! When given the choice, people will choose the "real" PS6 as long as supply is available. The Series S lost vs. the Series X, even in it's own Xbox family. When given the choice, more people picked the Series X bro. Think about that for a second.




The Series S was the worst selling current gen launch hardware. It's sold worst than the current Nintendo Switch 2. Again think about that. The Switch 2 has already passed the Series S and it's only been out for less than a year.

The series s didn't have a disc drive, that was also a big factor. A lot of Xbox people would had 360 and xb1 disc's. Why get a series s when it does limited bc. Also ms used to have deals for the series x. I got one (my one and only Xbox ever) for free with Verizon internet. Best buy also had a promotion in 2023.

Those factors tie in. If series s had a disc drive and there wasn't deals on series x I as a pc, switch and ps5 owner, would of bought the series s instead.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Then why not just double down on the PS5 and sell it for cheaper than what you sold it for at launch? Wouldn't that achieve the same thing, without screwing up a whole next-gen? You don't believe a $400 PS5 with GTA6 bundled-in wouldn't sell like hotcakes?

The lower spec PS6 should be be cheaper to produce than the PS5

 

[Tobimacoss]

The lower spec PS6 should be be cheaper to produce than the PS5

And cheaper to package and ship, and cheaper to run. Eliminates need for a streaming only box too if price can be gotten to $299 during sales. More tiny yet more powerful than a Series S.

 

[slrbomber]

Sure. But I have a question? Are you okay with Canis-based low power slow 24GB ram set top box PS6? Because if so, you are not consistent and making contradictory stances.

Now if you say Canis should not be called PS6 and no mandate for all PS6 games then I can see your statements making sense.

No because a set top box using Canis doesnt work for gaming in the home. It wont sell well as that will be its primary use(1080p gaming only at home in a 4K TV world). On the other hand, Canis in a mobile device(PS6 portable) works and as a secondary feature if you can use it with a home display it fulfills both roles while not trying to claim to be a home console gaming device. Canis is architectures for mobile gaming at 1080p.

 

[Shogmaster]

No because a set top box using Canis doesnt work for gaming in the home. It wont sell well as that will be its primary use(1080p gaming only at home in a 4K TV world). On the other hand, Canis in a mobile device(PS6 portable) works and as a secondary feature if you can use it with a home display it fulfills both roles while not trying to claim to be a home console gaming device. Canis is architectures for mobile gaming at 1080p.

Its gonna PSSR3'd up to 4K. Its gonna look way better than 1080p.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

$650 handheld/dockable first, followed by an equivalent low end/non portable PS6 at $450-$500 plus a premium $800 console.

They keep it to two specs across 3 devices, the portable buyers don't feel like they have a lesser system when the PS6 launches. They can keep using what they have, or add on with a premium PS6.

The only people who are boned are the PSPro users, but I don't think they actually want people to buy it anymore. They are testing the PS6 pricing.

 

[slrbomber]

Its gonna PSSR3'd up to 4K. Its gonna look way better than 1080p.

The PS6 is going to be PSSR3'd up to 4K, Maybe for some current gen titles Canis could hit 4K with upscaling. But its really not going to be a chip for a home console targeting 4K.

 

[Shogmaster]

The PS6 is going to be PSSR3'd up to 4K, Maybe for some current gen titles Canis could hit 4K with upscaling. But its really not going to be a chip for a home console targeting 4K.

PS6 should reach 4K with little or no upscaling unless you zap it with high RT or Path Tracing.

Canis device should be able to do 4K with aggressive scaling. 4x or even 6x pixel scale

 

[mckmas8808]

The series s didn't have a disc drive, that was also a big factor. A lot of Xbox people would had 360 and xb1 disc's. Why get a series s when it does limited bc. Also ms used to have deals for the series x. I got one (my one and only Xbox ever) for free with Verizon internet. Best buy also had a promotion in 2023.

Those factors tie in. If series s had a disc drive and there wasn't deals on series x I as a pc, switch and ps5 owner, would of bought the series s instead.

But then the price would have been higher at, meaning lower overall sales.

 

[Tobimacoss]

The PS6 is going to be PSSR3'd up to 4K, Maybe for some current gen titles Canis could hit 4K with upscaling. But its really not going to be a chip for a home console targeting 4K.

It would be optional, for those who don't mind the lower quality, why does that bother you? Canis is going to exist regardless with games being mandated support for it. Do you hear Switch 2 users complaining when they play on 4k TVs? 30% of Switch 1 sold were TV bound. That's 40-45 million users.

$650 handheld/dockable first, followed by an equivalent low end/non portable PS6 at $450-$500 plus a premium $800 console.

They keep it to two specs across 3 devices, the portable buyers don't feel like they have a lesser system when the PS6 launches. They can keep using what they have, or add on with a premium PS6.

The only people who are boned are the PSPro users, but I don't think they actually want people to buy it anymore. They are testing the PS6 pricing.

Nicely said. It will be a great device. Bonus points if Sony can fit Canis into a PS2 shell. I'm sure someone out there might do it if Sony doesn't.

 

[MicTyson]

They love this cheap system now! Who woulda thunk it?

It's no longer going to hold gaming back!

 

[Neo_game]

Probably fake news and he is just guessing just like people are guessing there will be multiple lower end Xbox devices but so far there is no evidence of either.

The specs of handheld is not fit for a console even if uses lot more power it will probably be on par or worse than PS5.

 

[Nikodemos]

Can yall stop believing this lie?! When given the choice, people will choose the "real" PS6 as long as supply is available. The Series S lost vs. the Series X, even in it's own Xbox family. When given the choice, more people picked the Series X bro. Think about that for a second.

The ratios started changing when people began not purchasing Xboxes in the first place. Which makes sense, because, if somebody really wants to own an Xbox specifically (rather than just a games console), they'd go for the top model. They eventually sold more Series X, but that's mainly because demand for the Xbox as a platform dropped considerably past late 2023.
I may have been wrong to believe that the Series S outsold the X, and I thank you for correcting me, but my opinion that it kept the lights on at the Xbox division during the first 2 years is correct, the graphs outright prove it.

The Series S was the worst selling current gen launch hardware. It's sold worst than the current Nintendo Switch 2. Again think about that. The Switch 2 has already passed the Series S and it's only been out for less than a year.

That's less on the Series S, and more on Microsoft carrying toxic baggage from the Xbone era, and not managing to course-correct, despite their efforts.

A PS6Lite would likely not suffer from the same issue, because PS as an environment is more attractive. Also, going by that leaked(?) speculation(?) Sony intend to ditch the "release a Pro model 3-4 years after the base one" strategy, and have the "Pro" available from the start, so people would not feel rugpulled, like they did when Sony announced the previous Pro versions.

 

[Felessan]

Also, going by that leaked(?) speculation(?) Sony intend to ditch the "release a Pro model 3-4 years after the base one" strategy, and have the "Pro" available from the start, so people would not feel rugpulled, like they did when Sony announced the previous Pro versions.

There is no Pro console planned at the start of generation afaik - only Vanilla PS6 and portable (and possibly cheap "always docked" portable)
And notion of a Pro was to stop leakage of enthusiasts halfway into generation due to consoles hardware became outdated at this point compare to latest tech. And launching "Pro" alongside with vanilla doesn't solve this problem at all.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

A PS6Lite would likely not suffer from the same issue, because PS as an environment is more attractive. Also, going by that leaked(?) speculation(?) Sony intend to ditch the "release a Pro model 3-4 years after the base one" strategy, and have the "Pro" available from the start, so people would not feel rugpulled, like they did when Sony announced the previous Pro versions.

I don't know where you are getting this...

All Sony is really doing is making a PS6, and making a handheld capable of playing PS6 games. This PS6lite version, which for all intents and purposes, is just the handheld without a screen, is just that. A handheld without a screen, and I don't even believe its real, I feel this is one of those made-up rumours, cause I don't see the sense in Sony making a whole separate SKU which only differs from the handheld SKU on a screen and battery or lack of itthere of. Makes no sense to me, especially when the very handheld can be connected to a TV just fine.

And I do not think anyone felt "rugpulled" when Sony announced a pro version 3-4 years after, cause its not like the Pro versions replaced the base version, they are sold alongside the base versions as a more expensive option.... that's definitely not how rug pulling works. A rug pull would mean that in October, the only PS5 you could get costs $500, and then in November the only PS5 you could get, also costs $500, but is now the PS5pro, and there is no longer support for the OG PS5 anymore. Clearly not what is happening here.

 

[Nikodemos]

Given the high (admittedly speculated) price of what MLiD calls Orion, I'm unsure whether Sony would keep that as their base home model. There's a not-insignificant risk of replicating the PS3 debacle.

A handheld-only version of the lower-spec model is a bit too "adventurous" for a relatively large portion of the target public, plus that one isn't outright 'cheap' either. And none of the higher-end handhelds are genuinely compact/comfortable enough to lug around for extended periods of time, whether they be Deck, Ally, Claw, Legion etc.
So there is a potential use case for a home console version, notably in more price-sensitive markets (there's a rumor the static version will only be available in some countries).

 

[mckmas8808]

A PS6Lite would likely not suffer from the same issue, because PS as an environment is more attractive. Also, going by that leaked(?) speculation(?) Sony intend to ditch the "release a Pro model 3-4 years after the base one" strategy, and have the "Pro" available from the start, so people would not feel rugpulled, like they did when Sony announced the previous Pro versions.

There is no such thing as a "Pro" version of a console at the launch of a console generation. It's literally not possible. Pro versions of consoles need years for hardware to mature and time to find out where the issues are with the base console. What Sony is possiblily doing is copying Microsoft's failed idea from this gen and putting out a Base console (PS6) and then putting out a weak little brother BS console (PS6Lite). The PS6Lite would not be the default console for devs.

And I'm still not sure it'll ever see the light of day.

 

[OuterLimits]

What kind of leaps would you even expect without an "S"? The Switch 2 and the most commonly used GPU, the RTX 3060, already ensure that nothing will be fully pushed to its limits anyway. The Steam Machine won't be high end either. In my opinion, the "S" doesn't hurt anything and developers actually benefit from it, because thanks to Sony's dominance and the high price of more powerful version, it will sell really well.

Many AAA games don't get Switch 2 releases(or they are ported later) and that will be even more true next gen.

Which is why Sony releasing a cheaper S version or a portable console that requires games must release on them is going to suck. Nintendo consoles didn't hold things back because the high budget AAA games could ignore it if they chose to. This won't be the case if Sony decides to release a cheapo version next gen.

Yeah, it may not be a huge deal for a few years since cross gen will be a factor. However, it will certainly be an issue later in the generation.

We already have seen issues this gen where the Series S was a pain in the ass for devs.(BG3). It will be worse with the market leader deciding to go down that same path.

 

[slrbomber]

PS6 should reach 4K with little or no upscaling unless you zap it with high RT or Path Tracing.

Canis device should be able to do 4K with aggressive scaling. 4x or even 6x pixel scale

Maybe for some current gen games, but I dont see this being feasible over the liftime of 7-8 years especially for games that are going to be taking advantage of the PS6, it just wont run or look well.There are going to be major pushes to leverage the AI acceleration, its going to face memory bandwidth limitations if you try to aim for 4K, keeping it at 1080p is an easy win especially for developers and mobile gamers for whom it was designed for. Anyway it will come out and we will see.

 

[slrbomber]

Many AAA games don't get Switch 2 releases(or they are ported later) and that will be even more true next gen.

Which is why Sony releasing a cheaper S version or a portable console that requires games must release on them is going to suck. Nintendo consoles didn't hold things back because the high budget AAA games could ignore it if they chose to. This won't be the case if Sony decides to release a cheapo version next gen.

Yeah, it may not be a huge deal for a few years since cross gen will be a factor. However, it will certainly be an issue later in the generation.

We already have seen issues this gen where the Series S was a pain in the ass for devs.(BG3). It will be worse with the market leader deciding to go down that same path.

Exactly, actually Series S is so bad since its targeting higher res than Switch 2, that Switch 2 has better textures in a lot of scenes.

 

[slrbomber]

It would be optional, for those who don't mind the lower quality, why does that bother you? Canis is going to exist regardless with games being mandated support for it. Do you hear Switch 2 users complaining when they play on 4k TVs? 30% of Switch 1 sold were TV bound. That's 40-45 million users.

Nicely said. It will be a great device. Bonus points if Sony can fit Canis into a PS2 shell. I'm sure someone out there might do it if Sony doesn't.

It doesnt bother me at all, if anything I am excited for Canis based portable because it can work and also speaking as a software engineer for work. Switch 2 has specific requirements, a specific budget assigned to developing games specifically for it. Same thing will be for the PS6 and PS6 portable combined. So Sony will have to ensure that devs simply design/develop for the base console device which will be between Orion(or base Ps5 during cross gen) then simply hit render targets for the 1080p PS6 portable/Canis. There's no issue with making 4K available in docked mode if anything I think it will do this for certain current gen games or cross gen games.But dont expect devs having to work extra to get the game running in a certain way at 4K in docked mode, or expect 4K gaming in docked mode for all titles over the lifetime of the Canis device(I can see some requirements around fps or effects or the creators of the IP not wanting their game running badly on such a device, yes this actually happens outside the PC world). Its really designed for mobile gaming at 1080p as a priority. The home display gaming is a secondary feature for it, otherwise its better you get a PS6 or PS5 pro for 4K gaming if thats what you want.

So I dont think Sony will be keen on marketing it as a 4K gaming device because it will hit hard hw limits as the gen progresses and PS6 only titles start appearing. Which takes me to the set top box version of Canis not making economic, SDLC, or marketing sense since a PS6 portable will be good enough for both mobile and docked mode at 1080p primarily, some games at 4K but not all games and definitely not when the PS6 only titles start coming out.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Makes no sense to me, especially when the very handheld can be connected to a TV just fine.

Sony's going to charge extra for the dock though.

The price is the main reason why a cheap console is going to be necessary. Sony has to do something. That something could have been just continue to sell the PS5... except it's unclear how long GDDR6 will be available now.

 

[Yamisan]

The lower spec PS6 should be be cheaper to produce than the PS5

lol learn inflation moron

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

lol learn inflation moron

Inflation has fuck all to do with it retard

 

[LordOcidax]

nope

Actually, is even worse…

 

[Loxus]

Presumably those AI/ML SKUs would have the full bin, why would you bin your profitmaxxed SKU? So either it's an outdated/fake chart or AT2=64CU.

Or MLiD is mistaking Magnus GPU chiplet for AT2.

It would make sense if Magnus GPU is custom for BC purposes but Kepler is agreeing with MLiD, so I don't know.

 

[Tobimacoss]

Or MLiD is mistaking Magnus GPU chiplet for AT2.

It would make sense if Magnus GPU is custom for BC purposes but Kepler is agreeing with MLiD, so I don't know.

They could've simply disabled 6 CUs for whatever reason. AMD's goal with the portfolio of devices is to have multipurpose silicone. Use it for Helix Consoles, Xbox PCs, Discrete cards.

 

[Loxus]

Of course you can have different memory controllers within the same die. And of course, a dual-purpose memory controller is a "thing".... but there is a reason they arent done.

Different mem PHY controllers on the same die is the first thing we are talking about here. The easiest thing to do is to have your mem PHY for the GDDR 32bit x 5 of them for 160bit in the PS6, and then have a separate LPDDR (most likely 64bit, so that's 2x32bit) mem phy controllers. But here is the thing, each mem phy takes up around 1.4mm2 and 1.1mm2 for GDDR and DDR controllers, respectively, in a 3nm die. So for 5 GDDR controllers, that's 7nm used up on the chip. You throw in 2 more controllers that take that number up to around 10mm2 used up.

Then there is in trying to use a combined phy controller; while they exist, they are super rare when dealing with controllers across memory types, eg, DDR + GDDR controller. But the worst part of that is that doing so would at best half the bandwidth of your whatever memory you are using on that bus, or at worst lock your max bandwidth to the max speed of the slowest RAM on that controller. Which is why no one does that nonsense.

All that DDR does is hold suspended apps and system features (system UI, recording, party chat, etc.) similar to the PS4 Pro.

 

[Loxus]

They could've simply disabled 6 CUs for whatever reason. AMD's goal with the portfolio of devices is to have multipurpose silicone. Use it for Helix Consoles, Xbox PCs, Discrete cards.

That's just something you got from MLiD when he first leaked the PS6 and AMD was proposing to Sony to share dies with desktop.

In reality AMD has many different SKUs.

AT2 having 70 CUs as full die always seems wrong unless it's custom and different from desktop.

If AT2 full die was 72CUs, then I can believe it is also used in desktops.

 

[twilo99]

You realize that you and your son were in the super minority though, right? Ultimately it didn't work out for Microsoft.

It doesn't meant that the series s was a bad product… it's a very good machine when you consider the cost and it's power consumption.

 

[DrFigs]

What a dumb idea.

 

[mckmas8808]

It doesn't meant that the series s was a bad product… it's a very good machine when you consider the cost and it's power consumption.

In insolation, it is a good product. But when you compare it to its main competition and Microsoft's goals for this gen, it was a bad product.

 

[twilo99]

In insolation, it is a good product. But when you compare it to its main competition and Microsoft's goals for this gen, it was a bad product.

Sony are about to prove the concept was the correct one but it only works if you control the majority of the market share.

Having different price points for people to choose from is obviously better for business and consumers.

The argument was that "devs" don't like optimizating for weaker hardware, but they will bend to Sony's weight now and no one will complain about it

 

[mckmas8808]

Sony are about to prove the concept was the correct one but it only works if you control the majority of the market share.

Having different price points for people to choose from is obviously better for business and consumers.

The argument was that "devs" don't like optimizating for weaker hardware, but they will bend to Sony's weight now and no one will complain about it

I'm VERY curious if you'll be right about this. Obviously I can't tell the future, so you may be right. I wish there was a way I could tag your post here and have GAF remind me to go back to it on January 1st 2030 to see if you were right or not.