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[Men_in_Boxes]

There's two camps surrounding Marathon.

Camp A: "Marathon is dead. It can't be saved. Players have rejected the concept."

Camp B: "Marathon has a chance. It needs some meaningful content updates to grow its player base."

What camp are you in and what Season 2 numbers would you have to see to shake your confidence? IE...maybe Marathon does have a chance?

Example: I'm obviously in Camp B, but I'd start to worry if...

-Season 2 failed to hit north of a 35k CCU high,
-Had a weekly % drop rate > 15% (Season 1 averaged a ~20% weekly drop)
-The late season (month 3) floor was not noticiably higher than the S1 floor.

The goal here is to keep people honest and improve the quality of discourse next month. Set your goalpost and stick to it.

 

[Paasei]

Camp C: I don't really care either way. Have your fun and I will have mine somewhere else.

 

[Three]

Marathon is a good game but I don't think those who have rejected it are the type of reasonable people who can be swayed by new content. They're set in their ways for other reasons. New content might bring some players back though.

Off topic, why does the voice sound like Mark Cerny and Norman Reedus?

 

[Guilty_AI]

Whichever mind breaks OP

 

[Kiya's Guard]

I have the game and I like it quite a lot. For me what matters is Sony's expectations, these games are always niche so for me if Sony wants to have a ccu of let's say stable 100k, they're in the wrong and the game is doomed on the long run. Sad, it's a good game

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Why exactly do you think more of the same is going to help this game?

 

[KyoZz]

It's time to get help, seriously

I think I broke him guys, sorry my bad.

The goal here is to keep people honest and improve the quality of discourse next month

Maybe stop writing stupid shit then. And don't pretend you want to engage in an honest discussion when plenty of people have been trying to and all the response they get is "you don't play PvP your opinion don't count" or "you don't know shit and are just a hater".

You've gone full retard, never go full retard.

 

[cormack12]

Game over, unless they substantially change the game which brings its own problems

1. Let's say they change and add the BR mode to the regular game modes. Why would people move from their existing BR favourites?
2. PvE - again, same as above. Rebellion will no doubt have a Zombie Army title dropping in the next year, aliens have got another fireteam dropping, Gears E-Day will have Horde no doubt, rogue core will drop in the next year. All titles with existing audiences and thats not mentioning current games out as well. Is a PvE mode going to make me drop $40? Not for just some weird horde/heist mode, no.
3. Cheating is probably the biggest issue now. The game already struggles with a feeling of fairness, then you complement that with poor anti cheat and slow actions as well as the D2 cheating memories then it's just another nail in the coffin.


If Marathon survives it will be because it fundamentally has to redesign most, it not all systems. At thay point I'd argue its a different game entirely.

To you, I would say at what point would you say the changes are so drastic and different, that you consider the game no longer Marathon at heart.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Why exactly do you think more of the same is going to help this game?

I don't think improved retention and a higher floor is "more of the same". I think what I described in the OP is around the area I'd start to worry.

 

[Metnut]

If they delete this game and make the pitched Bloodborne remake.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Game over, unless they substantially change the game which brings its own problems

1. Let's say they change and add the BR mode to the regular game modes. Why would people move from their existing BR favourites?
2. PvE - again, same as above. Rebellion will no doubt have a Zombie Army title dropping in the next year, aliens have got another fireteam dropping, Gears E-Day will have Horde no doubt, rogue core will drop in the next year. All titles with existing audiences and thats not mentioning current games out as well. Is a PvE mode going to make me drop $40? Not for just some weird horde/heist mode, no.
3. Cheating is probably the biggest issue now. The game already struggles with a feeling of fairness, then you complement that with poor anti cheat and slow actions as well as the D2 cheating memories then it's just another nail in the coffin.


If Marathon survives it will be because it fundamentally has to redesign most, it not all systems. At thay point I'd argue its a different game entirely.

To you, I would say at what point would you say the changes are so drastic and different, that you consider the game no longer Marathon at heart.

I'm just referring to the Steamcharts metrics. What S2 numbers would you have to see in order for you to think "Maybe Bungie can pull this off..."

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I don't think improved retention and a higher floor is "more of the same". I think what I described in the OP is around the area I'd start to worry.

I'm talking about Season 2. The base game didn't click with the audience they needed. How is Season 2 going to change that?

 

[KyoZz]

I don't think improved retention and a higher floor is "more of the same". I think what I described in the OP is around the area I'd start to worry.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I'm talking about Season 2. The base game didn't click with the audience they needed. How is Season 2 going to change that?

I think there's actually 3 camps.

The hot camp: IE The Marathon bros.

The cold camp: IE "The Marathon is trash" trolls.

The lukewarm camp: IE The "Marathon looks decent. Maybe I'll pick it up at some point or check out S2" gamers.

On the internet, you don't see too much of the lukewarm camp, but I suspect they vastly outnumber both the hot and cold camps combined.

 

[Lightbreak]

What a society we live in that we want everything else to fail just to compesate for our own failure...

 

[Branded]

If they had something special for season 2 they would have shared it by now or at least teased it. I very much enjoyed my time with it (about 90 hours of it) but I don't think they'll have any meaningful additions for S2.

We're almost three months in and we still have heard jack shit about performance patches on PC.

 

[HRK69]

Did they close the CCU thread?

 

[kikkis]

I dont really understand why this doesn't seem to get traction given that most seem to quite like the game.

 

[cormack12]

I'm just referring to the Steamcharts metrics. What S2 numbers would you have to see in order for you to think "Maybe Bungie can pull this off..."

Oh, I dunno really. They are fun to riff on. I think the low console numbers hurt it more than anything. CCU has to be measured against the other two key metrics - number of players to start match, length of match. Together these determine how long to get into a game and how long matchmaking takes.

Redoing maps is going to take too long, so I would drop teams to start to 4 and reduce round time to 12 minutes. But if we see this game only able to land between DRG and Nightreign then I think its firmly in cut losses territory

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I think there's actually 3 camps.

The hot camp: IE The Marathon bros.

The cold camp: IE "The Marathon is trash" trolls.

The lukewarm camp: IE The "Marathon looks decent. Maybe I'll pick it up at some point or check out S2" gamers.

On the internet, you don't see too much of the lukewarm camp, but I suspect they vastly outnumber both the hot and cold camps combined.

So the niche game failed to capture their niche target auidence and you're banking on the casuals.

Lmao you're fucking delulu

 

[bitbydeath]

I think Bungie need to give up and make a single player game while they still have a functional team.

It's fine to do MP on the side, but it's going to sink them if that's all they do. MP games are not sustainable in today's market.

 

[KyoZz]

I dont really understand why this doesn't seem to get traction given that most seem to quite like the game.

It's simple, the game had plenty of free week-end which mean the players got filtered even before launch. So those who bought it, where already convinced.

A big echo chamber if you prefer.

Did they close the CCU thread?

No but Men_in_Boxes is in needs of attention. Please give him attention.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

So the niche game failed to capture their niche target auidence and you're banking on the casuals.

Lmao you're fucking delulu

No, I just think if you talk to normal gamers they're much more open to trying out Marathon, even if they haven't already.

I don't believe most people would comprehend the rigid tribal lines that have formed around Marathon on the internet. It would be a foreign culture to them.

"So it's like Fox News vs MSNBC but it's surrounding a FPS game made by Bungie."

Most people would be like "WTF?"

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

If I were you, I'd spend more time actually playing this "great" game instead of loitering here in the forum and desperately trying to defend it.

Judging by the player count, you probably don't have much time left anyway.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

No, I just think if you talk to normal gamers they're much more open to trying out Marathon, even if they haven't already.

I don't believe most people would comprehend the rigid tribal lines that have formed around Marathon on the internet. It would be a foreign culture to them.

"So it's like Fox News vs MSNBC but it's surrounding a FPS game made by Bungie."

Most people would be like "WTF?"

Normal gamers might try marathon. if it's on sale, and then like the rest who've already abandoned it realise it's a high-stakes competitive PVP game built for the streaming audience and drop it

Sounds like you've already accepted it's a failure if you're banking on throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks

 

[Hollowpoint5557]

When I looked last night they had 13,000 on a Friday night. The game is cooked and there's going to be no saving it.

 

[HRK69]

My position is comfy

It's the 'watching another Bungie live service slowly flatline while they pretend it's a comeback' season pass and it's already fully upgraded

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Normal gamers might try marathon. if it's on sale, and then like the rest who've already abandoned it realise it's a high-stakes competitive PVP game built for the streaming audience and drop it

Sounds like you've already accepted it's a failure if you're banking on throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks

You could be right.

I'm just trying to find what S2 metrics you'd have to see to question your position.

 

[mdkirby]

For me. It needs a well written 20hr campaign that lets me explore the world and mystery of marathon. From playing that I'd learn the game and likely try out the multiplayer occasionally. Especially if the worked together in some way, ie if I could bring higher end extracted gear into the single player (or vice versa)

There's just no way that's happening tho, especially any time soon as bungie took half a decade to make just a few multiplayer maps . They are a grossly bloated and inefficient studio, and I don't remotely believe they are capable of making any meaningful changes for season 2

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

You could be right.

I'm just trying to find what S2 metrics you'd have to see to question your position.

They need launch numbers to be consistent to justify the amount of money they're burning on this game if that's what you're asking.

 

[Venzik]

There's two camps surrounding Marathon.

A disadvantageous position...
Do they even know they're at war?

Marathon can:
1: Pray
2: Fight

but

Nobody in the studio believes in god
Nobody in the studio has ever punched someone

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

They need launch numbers to be consistent to justify the amount of money they're burning on this game if that's what you're asking.

I'm asking you something very specific...

What S2 metrics would you need to see from Marathon in order for you to think "Wait, maybe I was wrong. Maybe Bungie can actially right the ship."

- S2 CCU high.
- S2 % weekly drop.
- S2 month 3 floor.

 

[PeteBull]

Im honestly surprised hermen or some1 above him( hiroki tiktoki ) didnt kill the game and studio by now, with such a low sales and players numbers and those huge losses game/devstudio is doing, guess they spent on it so much it will be super hard decision to finally put it out of its misery.
I would compare it to top professional sports team that contracted new superstar crazy expensive player only to realise he is total shit, they give him many chances, way more than they would ever give to cheap rookie just coz they cant admit to themselfs they fucked up so badly but reality gonna hit them even harder that way

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I'm asking you something very specific...

What S2 metrics would you need to see from Marathon in order for you to think "Wait, maybe I was wrong. Maybe Bungie can actially right the ship."

- S2 CCU high.
- S2 % weekly drop.
- S2 month 3 floor.

- 90K CCU
- I don't know, 5%?
- 40K floor

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

- 90K CCU
- I don't know, 5%?
- 40K floor

So if S2 doesn't hit these metrics, then you still remain confident that Marathon is done for?

While I think that's nuts, I respect that you put some numbers down.

 

[rm082e]

Metrics: The CCU would have to very quickly return to launch numbers, and show continued weekly growth for at least 6 weeks. They would need to grow beyond their launch numbers and move towards Arc Raiders CCU numbers at its height. We would also need to see some evidence the PS5 market share is increasing.

I just don't think that's possible without a full on PvE campaign a'la Destiny 2, and they're not going to magically pull a polished 25 hour game out of the air in a few months.

I still think Bungie is in for layoffs and a reorg. I think Marathon will be put into maintenance mode. I think Sony may be waiting until after their not-E3 presentation to swing the axe because they don't want bad news hanging over their head.

I feel bad for most of the team who work there. They didn't decide to make a niche game that can't support their salaries.

 

[ViciousAgenda]

You have a humiliation fetish.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You have a humiliation fetish.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Marathon might have a life with drastic changes, little tweaks isn't saving it

 

[RoboFu]

What's this game Marysthong? Sounds fun!

 

[Shubh_C63]

I don't have to commit to a goalpost but some things I can't shake off personally;

• Bungie still has that magic
• Destiny pvp crowd are addicts and very loyal
• Games HAVE survived 5K CCU average if studio size is around 60 people with fluctuating dev size when nearing major updates (Division, Darktide, Hunt etc)

Season-2 has to do better than Season-1 which seems impossible. And I think Sony really wants to support this game for atleast 2 years meaning 6 Months Seasons and only less than half of current developers working. Concord, Fairgame$, Horizon Hunter Gatherers all might get their cords pulled but Bungie would survive the longest.

I don't know what that bare minimum magic number number is but they definitely have the fanbase and the skills to reverse this. I wish Sony kills Marathon because I am also an disgruntled ex Destiny fan. Fix this stupid studio from inside out, cancel their stupid knitting classes, this-&-that support and make them work for 2 years. They are a greedy bunch of a-holes who thinks fan will keep sucking their thumbs no matter what they do (and yet I say I like their gameplay).

 

[EN250]

The game is cooked no matter what, people didn't care about it, the "genre" is shit to begin with and most people wouldn't bother even if was peak Bungie, adding more of the same shit won't covince the majority into joining this failure of a game

Now, if there was a Single-Player campaign with this trash extraction shit as a side hustle, that would have been a different story...

 

[clarky]

I think Bungie need to give up and make a single player game while they still have a functional team.

It's fine to do MP on the side, but it's going to sink them if that's all they do. MP games are not sustainable in today's market.

Nonsense.

Deadlock seems to be doing more than fine.

 

[Salmorejo]

Marathon can't live long term without MTX, but it is so fugly that no one is going to waste more money on it, and S2 isn't going to change it. It's already dead.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Im honestly surprised hermen or some1 above him( hiroki tiktoki ) didnt kill the game and studio by now, with such a low sales and players numbers and those huge losses game/devstudio is doing, guess they spent on it so much it will be super hard decision to finally put it out of its misery.
I would compare it to top professional sports team that contracted new superstar crazy expensive player only to realise he is total shit, they give him many chances, way more than they would ever give to cheap rookie just coz they cant admit to themselfs they fucked up so badly but reality gonna hit them even harder that way

hermen doesn't have many lives left. Each new cancellation brings him closer to his YOU ARE DEAD.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

As for the OP's question, Marathon should be remade a single player game (8 hour story ala Another World or Flashback) and then add what they have now as multiplayer.

 

[Aion002]

If they added waifus and cool skins, plus a single player campaign and a tdm mode, it could thrive.

But they probably won't.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I have a strong suspicion that those who do not set numerical parameters do so to protect their preferred narrative. I implore each of you to set your S2 thresholds...

- CCU high
- Weekly % drop rate
- Month 3 floor

This thread will be used to fill out my personality files on each of you.

 

[clarky]

I have a strong suspicion that those who do not set numerical parameters do so to protect their preferred narrative. I implore each of you to set your S2 thresholds...

- CCU high
- Weekly % drop rate
- Month 3 floor

This thread will be used to fill out my personality files on each of you.

I'll play.

High. 30k
Retention a bit better than this season.
Floor. 5k

Number of Men_in_Boxes Marathon threads by that point 159,000

The game won't bring the needed changes for season 2 and things will get a lot worse before (if) they get better.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I'll play.

High. 30k
Retention a bit better than this season.
Floor. 5k

Number of Men_in_Boxes Marathon threads by that point 159,000

The game won't bring the needed changes for season 2 and things will get a lot worse before (if) they get better.