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Jeff gerstmann weighs in on the the Banjo-Kazooie nuts and bolts debate
- Thread starter rkofan87
- Start date
uncreativename
Gold Member
There's a debate? I really liked that game, and Ice Pick Lodge's Cargo The Quest For Gravity
yes there is a lot of players do not consider a real banjo game.
they refuse to call it banjo 3 even though it is Banjo 3
March Climber
Member
Gerstmann is half right. It's not that people didn't care about Banjo Kazooie, it's that consumers, especially in the past, had linear thought when it came to sequels. So anything in a franchise that would take a wild turn in genre or theme was extremely criticized.
Doom 3 was another example of this.
I also think people would have had a similar take on Jak and Daxter if Jak 2 was like Jak 1, and then suddenly Jak 3 had all of the guns and GTA stuff.
Doom 3 was another example of this.
I also think people would have had a similar take on Jak and Daxter if Jak 2 was like Jak 1, and then suddenly Jak 3 had all of the guns and GTA stuff.
uncreativename
Gold Member
Oh. Well that's fair enough I guess. It is extremely different from the other games. If Microsoft made a sequel they should call it Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts 2 imo.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Who the fuck cares lmao
Shit came out almost 20 years ago, get over it
Shit came out almost 20 years ago, get over it
did you not read the PS my man?
ps just a fun Saturday morning thread nothing serious.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I wasn't speaking directly to you, just anyone who thinks it's a "controversy"
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kevboard
Member
he is 100% correct.
it's the best Banjo game, and it was also extremely creative and innovative.
we have seen multiple indy hits with similar concepts since, that expanded on the mechanics of Nuts & Bolts.
people always bitch about Rare losing their spirit after the Microsoft takeover, yet completely ignored some of their most creative works they ever made, which all released UNDER MICROSOFT.
even Kameo is getting ignored by supposed Rare fanboys, because it's not on a Nintendo platform.
a game YOU CAN BUY AND PLAY TODAY ON A CURRENT GEN PLATFORM AT 4K 60FPS BTW!
in conclusion, Banjo fans don't deserve Banjo Threeie
it's the best Banjo game, and it was also extremely creative and innovative.
we have seen multiple indy hits with similar concepts since, that expanded on the mechanics of Nuts & Bolts.
people always bitch about Rare losing their spirit after the Microsoft takeover, yet completely ignored some of their most creative works they ever made, which all released UNDER MICROSOFT.
even Kameo is getting ignored by supposed Rare fanboys, because it's not on a Nintendo platform.
a game YOU CAN BUY AND PLAY TODAY ON A CURRENT GEN PLATFORM AT 4K 60FPS BTW!
in conclusion, Banjo fans don't deserve Banjo Threeie
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March Climber
Member
For context (because the OP bookmarked it right afterwards), the old game Jeff is reviewing was made by Rare staff and he was saying that they somehow lived beyond this bad game to make some of the greatest games of all time, "...like Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts" which led him to say what he said in OP's clip.
kevboard
Member
playing old Rare games really do be like:
Game A: wow, this is barely playable garbage
Game B: this is neat
Game C: ABSOLUTE MASTERPIECE
Game D: how did they not go bankrupt right there?
Game E: this is an affront to humanity
Game F: this is pretty damn great!
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Madserb2023
Member
It was a good game but a bad Banjo game. It's just not what I wanted. No doubt got criticism because it's not what was expected. Might seem like a strange comparison but I have similar feelings about Metroid Prime 4. It's actually decent but the bike, open world desert and the NPCs is just not Metroid and I can't help feeling disappointed.
Saber
Newd Member
Nuts and Bolts is a very shallow and "wrong idea" type of game for Banjo Kazooie.
And I'm telling this as someone who beat the game. Theres only one stage that is pretty chill and cool to explore, which is the first area.
The game composition and challenges are literal brain damage. Not only has nothing to do with Banjo Kazooie, its just incredibly stupid to build things like a lego while still having to follow rules or parameters.
And I'm telling this as someone who beat the game. Theres only one stage that is pretty chill and cool to explore, which is the first area.
The game composition and challenges are literal brain damage. Not only has nothing to do with Banjo Kazooie, its just incredibly stupid to build things like a lego while still having to follow rules or parameters.
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March Climber
Member
Their NES library was probably the shakiest part of their history, then 1993 and 1994 happened.
Due to their NES library, in a way I consider them to be that generation's Mercury Steam, as in guys who made pretty decent to pretty bad games, but somehow managed to secure the primary development of a revered Nintendo franchise.
kevboard
Member
the only one I actually played was the GameBoy one (Wizards & Warriors X), which I did like at the time.
the music was great.
NeverYouMind
Member
Cobra Triangle is legit one of the best combat racing games on NES.
Battletoads & Double Dragon is one of the best beat 'em ups for the NES.
Battletoads Arcade and Killer Instinct (ARC) are better than the lame 16-bit Donkey Kong junk in the same period.
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March Climber
Member
I agree…and then you look at the rest of their NES list lol.
coffinbirth
Member
Well, they're all wrong, it's Banjo 5.
rm082e
Gold Member
I remeber listening to the Bombcast at the time Nuts & Bolts came out and being interested in it based on Jeff and Brad's excitement. I checked it out from GameFly a little while later and it just did not hold my attention at all. It was neat for about 2 hours, and then I never had any interest in playing it again.
I am part of the problem Jeff, and I am not sorry.
I am part of the problem Jeff, and I am not sorry.
kpopSuperstar
Gold Member
Gertsman triggers me, because he has this asshole attitude where he calls everyone an idiot for not liking what he does. He has always been like this, and what makes it triggering is that his views on games are anal as fuck, he has the worst fucking takes.
rm082e
Gold Member
He's 100% being sarcastic, and always has been. That's the joke - he's acting deathly serious about silly video game shit.
Him and Patrick arguing over Yoshi's Island.
Him and Brad arguing about Doom 3.
Dan spinning him up by claiming Mario Sunshine is better than Mario 64.
Dan saying Terminator 3 is better than the original Terminator.
All classics.
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DreamcastSkies
Gold Member
It's a great game. Arguably the best in the series.
kpopSuperstar
Gold Member
Nah, he talks shit about everything. If there is something he doesn't like it's always trash. I remember him picking on Dan Ryckert for years, he is incredibly childish.
DeVeAn
Member
I could never articulate it myself. Exactly how I feel.
MrTroubleMaker
Member
Nuts & Bolts is great!
NeverYouMind
Member
uncreativename
Gold Member
I used to like him a lot, but between him coasting for years at Giant Bomb West and now having to dance for the Bluesky furries who are the ones who buy Patreon and Twitch subs for all these ex Giant Bomb guys I haven't felt like watching any of his stuff for a while
ResilientBanana
Member
It's a damn good game, I loved it. Trophied all the challenges.
for mor cecontext he was playing the absolute atrocity that is Nightmare on Elm Street for the NES
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name the other two
uncreativename
Gold Member
I don't really have any strong feelings about most of their games one way or the other, but Donkey Kong Country 2's the greatest platformer of all time imo, and Donkey Kong Country 1 is amazing too. Still haven't ever even tried 3, I really should sometime. Didn't care for Donkey Kong Country Returns. Oh, and Goldeneye was really fun, of course.
So I just thought of Nuts and Bolts as a fun game, good but not quite as good as those other Rare games ^, because I didn't have any nostalgia for Banjo Kazooie really.
So I just thought of Nuts and Bolts as a fun game, good but not quite as good as those other Rare games ^, because I didn't have any nostalgia for Banjo Kazooie really.
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mopspear
Member
#jontronlied
I was super disappointed hearing that BK Nuts and Butts would be a vehicle building game and was further dissuaded by JonTron's (bad) review. I'm still mad about believing him.
I got really re-interested in it after watching Thursday Night Throwdown(?) on GiantBomb long ago. Not it, but this is the best I got:
Many years later, when I had a used 360, I bought a copy and the game was awesome!
I was super disappointed hearing that BK Nuts and Butts would be a vehicle building game and was further dissuaded by JonTron's (bad) review. I'm still mad about believing him.
I got really re-interested in it after watching Thursday Night Throwdown(?) on GiantBomb long ago. Not it, but this is the best I got:
Many years later, when I had a used 360, I bought a copy and the game was awesome!
Wildebeest
Member
The unwashed console player is not able to appreciate this sort of game or a game like Brutal Legend. Give them a simple game where they can only walk forwards and hit things with a club like a caveman.
Georges Chiellins
Member
Nuts and Bolts is, by far, the best Banjo&Kazooie game.
Zannegan
Member
I freaking loved N&B, but I started out determined to hate it because it wasn't what I wanted from a Banjo sequel. Then I gave the demo a hate play and, like I said, loved it.
I always wanted a more in-depth version that allowed for more transformation/actuation and more assignable functions. You could do some fun things with the physics sandbox and the parts they had, but I wanted more.
TotK scratched that itch a bit, but it didn't have the same focus. It's too bad BK:N&B sold as poorly as it did.
I always wanted a more in-depth version that allowed for more transformation/actuation and more assignable functions. You could do some fun things with the physics sandbox and the parts they had, but I wanted more.
TotK scratched that itch a bit, but it didn't have the same focus. It's too bad BK:N&B sold as poorly as it did.
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AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
Somebody tell him its time to go bald. Those 5 hair strands are fighting for their life to stay on top.
coffinbirth
Member
Banjo-Kazooie-1998
Banjo-Tooie-2000
Banjo-Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge-2003
Banjo Pilot-2005(technically a spin off)
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts-2008
Dr. Suchong
Member
MrCunningham
Member
During the NES era Rare's output varied from publisher to publisher. rare was essentially a hired gun developer, who would jump between projects that were commissioned from publishers like LJN, Milton Bradly, Acclaim, GameTek, TradeWest and of course Nintendo. Each one of those publishers had wildly different sets of deadlines, budgets and quality control.
Ironically LJN wasn't the worst publisher of the bunch. Milton Bradly probably was. Rare made Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune and other 'gameshow' games for GameTek. GameTek exclusively published 'gameshow' licensed games for the NES. Rare's work with Acclaim could be middling. People do like the Ironsword games, NARC and Arch Rivals were solid and functional arcade ports for the NES. The Tradewest published Rare games were some of their better stuff, with Battletoads, Battletoads Double Dragon, RC Pro AM II, etc. Rare's best work was for Nintendo, with Slalom, Cobra Triangle, the original RC pro AM, Snake Rattle N Roll. Their Nintendo produced games were probably the best of the bunch, given Nintendo's tight quality control regimen and they probably gave Rare the biggest payouts.
Rare in those days, they would work under whatever conditions the publishers set. I would imagine a typical LJN project was like: "we need this game based on this license on store shelve sin four months." With some basic QA and play testing. Milton Bradly was probably even worse when it came to development crunch and so forth.
When Rareware was contracted to make Donkey Kong Country for Nintendo of America, Nintendo created Treehouse just for that project alone. Treehouse (under control of Ken Lobb) played tested DKC non stop and really gave Rareware a lot of extended time to make the best game that they could. Treehouse also did the same QA on all of Rare's post DKC games up to the Microsoft buyout. Treehouse still operates for localisations and QA.
The Donkey Kong Country Exposed VHS tape really gave you a good behind the scenes at Treehouse and how involved they were in the project. I also had this VHS when I was a kid, it was mailed out to anyone that had a Nintendo Power subscription. It was honestly pretty cool getting this from Nintendo:
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