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[666]

nvidia face turn at wrestle-mania hell in a gpu cell match

 

[BennyBlanco]

 

[NeverYouMind]

So Windows build on Nvidia ARM CPU designed for AI...

 

[Bojji]

Windows 12.

DX13.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

WE ARE GETTING PC 2

Mfers aren't going to like "PC2"…

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Something expensive

 

[Valonquar]

What will follow is a symphony of hilarity as MS releases half-ass ARM versions of their suite that are just emulating x86 in a broken ass way that doesn't support any sort of add-on you might want to use since those won't be emulated and will shit the bed when they can't run on ARM.

 

[ResilientBanana]

This has nothing to do with gaming. It's probably the rumored nVidia CPU or NPU .

 

[Puscifer]

Future PCs will practically be standalone GPUs with an ARM CPU slapped on the side... Which is what consoles are and what PCs should've evolved into for a long time now.

The DGX spark was just a trial run, those devices could end up everywhere.

I'd be okay with that but;

Let me use my own storage

Lp-camm ram, since it's basically onboard ram you can screw on and off - don't stop giving me options.

Case options would be nice

I mean I'm watching the death of home compute into something and i don't feel crazy for thinking it might be locked down. But at least the sparks run Linux.

 

[Kuranghi]

And I, for one, welcome our new AI slop overlords

 

[Hudo]

Whatever it is, it'll cost $5000 minimum.

 

[Pedro Motta]

Finally they are following Apple in ARM, x86 should die.

 

[WhamBamThankYouMaam]

It will be cloud bullshit and ai bullshit.

 

[Topher]

 

[Gamezone]

New era of PC?

I thought they were trying to destroy PC landscape, in favor of "personal AI"

That's the conspiracy theory. You don't have to believe everything you see online.

 

[PauloRoberto]

I al alrady seeing linkedin posts with some idits asking if you are ready to see your videocard powering your whole pc... jesus christ, i fu**ing hate this hyperbolic posts (that obviously forget about throttling)

 

[Topher]

I al alrady seeing linkedin posts with some idits asking if you are ready to see your videocard powering your whole pc... jesus christ, i fu**ing hate this hyperbolic posts (that obviously forget about throttling)

It's an SoC so CPU and GPU on one chip. Just like consoles and Apple devices.

 

[PauloRoberto]

It's an SoC so CPU and GPU on one chip. Just like consoles and Apple devices.

And they also throttle, that's my point. It's not the revolution those linkedin posts try to sell (it's however, a welcome rival to AMD and Intel, we can see how x86 arch is alredy better thansk to Apple Mx rivalry).

 

[Topher]

And they also throttle, that's my point. It's not the revolution those linkedin posts try to sell (it's however, a welcome rival to AMD and Intel, we can see how x86 arch is alredy better thansk to Apple Mx rivalry).

Nah....not a revolution by any stretch. Just competition as you say. I'll be interested to see some comparison benchmarks.

 

[SScorpio]

Nah....not a revolution by any stretch. Just competition as you say. I'll be interested to see some comparison benchmarks.

Numbers I'm seeing are 80-120W targeting 4070 performance. If it's only hitting mobile 4070 performance, that puts it over 25% faster than the Steam Machine which has a discrete GPU.

And decimating AMD's 780M in the Z1/2 Extreme chips which are roughly GTX 1060 in performance. We're already seeing what NVIDIA is pulling off with power constrained Ampere in the Switch 2. The N1X with Blackwell is going to be something to keep an eye on.

 

[Drew1440]

Hopefully Microsoft will start compiling their current and back catalogue of games to ARM, rather than rely on an emulator. The handhelds would benefit so much from this.

 

[Topher]

Numbers I'm seeing are 80-120W targeting 4070 performance. If it's only hitting mobile 4070 performance, that puts it over 25% faster than the Steam Machine which has a discrete GPU.

And decimating AMD's 780M in the Z1/2 Extreme chips which are roughly GTX 1060 in performance. We're already seeing what NVIDIA is pulling off with power constrained Ampere in the Switch 2. The N1X with Blackwell is going to be something to keep an eye on.

Definitely going to be an interesting space to watch, especially as ARM support in games grow.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Nothing so far about windows on ARM gives me confidence that this can succeed any more than Qualcomm did.

Big hype at launch, then everyone admits it was a bit shit 2 months later.

Completely. The whole ethos of PC is that the software stays the same and everyone else - OS, hardware - moves to ensure continued compatibility at superior performance.

Without that, it isn't a PC, and in many ways the ARM based PC will eventually end up a RaspberryPI IMO using a lot of the great work originally done with WINE, then Proton/SteamOS.

Replacing a defacto standard with workarounds for proprietary software is the exact opposite of what Nvidia want today, as shown by the AMD GPU drivers are slaves to the graphics HAL in Windows written by Nvidia, and we only need look at Nvidia's anti-competitive stance with Cuda/Cg/DLSS and proprietary GPU hardware blocks to see they don't understand how the PC market reached its open standard point of equilibrium with middleman Microsoft as the company agnostic doorman.

Move from x64 and all status quo points of equilibrium that aren't open standards won't transfer for the new point of equilibrium IMHO, or...the old point of equilibrium (Windows/Linux/X86, Linux/Arm) survives, thrives and eliminates it(Nvidia ARM/Windows) IMO.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Numbers I'm seeing are 80-120W targeting 4070 performance. If it's only hitting mobile 4070 performance, that puts it over 25% faster than the Steam Machine which has a discrete GPU.

Desktop 4070 would be nice... but that's roughly 5070 Ti Laptop gets and this won't have anywhere near the bandwidth the 5070 Ti does.

 

[SScorpio]

Completely. The whole ethos of PC is that the software stays the same and everyone else - OS, hardware - moves to ensure continued compatibility at superior performance.

Without that, it isn't a PC, and in many ways the ARM based PC will eventually end up a RaspberryPI IMO using a lot of the great work originally done with WINE, then Proton/SteamOS.

Replacing a defacto standard with workarounds for proprietary software is the exact opposite of what Nvidia want today, as shown by the AMD GPU drivers are slaves to the graphics HAL in Windows written by Nvidia, and we only need look at Nvidia's anti-competitive stance with Cuda/Cg/DLSS and proprietary GPU hardware blocks to see they don't understand how the PC market reached its open standard point of equilibrium with middleman Microsoft as the company agnostic doorman.

Move from x64 and all status quo points of equilibrium that aren't open standards won't transfer for the new point of equilibrium IMHO, or...the old point of equilibrium (Windows/Linux/X86, Linux/Arm) survives, thrives and eliminates it(Nvidia ARM/Windows) IMO.

IMO that was only ever a thing due to Microsoft. Businesses are their main customer not the less than 1% of revenue from consumers. Microsoft since the early days made damn sure all those custom business critical pieces of software would work with minimal if any issues or necessary workarounds.

Some software is already targeting ARM, and in the future it will grow. But it doesn't need to. Unless you are extreme CPU heavy tasks doing x86/64 -> ARM64 has very low overhead already. In terms of gaming Proton with DXVK doing Direct3D to Vulkan is already doing the heavy lifting. You're going from Windows written graphics, to utilizing the GPU of the ARM SOC. Throw in FEX-Emu to handle the CPU side. You can already see people running AAA x64 games on cellphones at playable frame rates. Put it on a performance oriented non-mobile power constrained platform and see what happens. Is it going to kill off the 5090? Of course not. Will it made big inroads with entry level gaming PCs, and be a competitor to consoles? Time will tell, but I really believe it could. Sony should be getting nervous. They are making huge profits right now, but having mini PC sized boxes with a console experience with no subscriptions or locked down BS will be a major competitor.

 

[simpatico]

If Helix is Nvidia powered, Sony might as well start cleaning out desks.

 

[kasrkinsquad]

I

If Helix is Nvidia powered, Sony might as well start cleaning out desks.

AMD. Should be about a 9070.

 

[Black_Stride]

If Helix is Nvidia powered, Sony might as well start cleaning out desks.

Its not.
Dont even worry about that.

Second having DLSS or the best graphics chip isnt going to automatically sway the console war.
Nintendo been killing it gen on gen with the weakest hardware.

 

[Anchovie123]

I havent been keeping up with Windows ARM, how does it even work? Can you even run x64 games and programs?

 

[Puscifer]

It's an SoC so CPU and GPU on one chip. Just like consoles and Apple devices.

Steam has ARM builds so this is great news.

And Linux is guaranteed to work

 

[SScorpio]

AMD. Should be about a 9070.

So mostly below a RTX 5070 but released almost three years later? Sounds like a winner....

I havent been keeping up with Windows ARM, how does it even work? Can you even run x64 games and programs?

Things just work. Just like when Apple went PowerPC -> x86 and then x64 -> ARM.



The video shows off games, but it's a lower powered laptop. I believe that video is also before Microsoft released the update that added AVX/AVX2 support to their ARM translation layer.

 

[DarkLordOtaku]

This has nothing to do with gaming. It's probably the rumored nVidia CPU or NPU .

Basically. This is for enterprise consumers of laptop devices, introducing a PC capable of running more complex AI processes locally, allowing for Microsoft to deploy more powerful iterations of CoPilot.

 

[Topher]

Basically. This is for enterprise consumers of laptop devices, introducing a PC capable of running more complex AI processes locally, allowing for Microsoft to deploy more powerful iterations of CoPilot.

Yep, although I doubt anyone is going to buy this for copilot. Claude code, Codex, ollama....that kind of thing more than likely

 

[FingerBang]

This has nothing to do with gaming. It's probably the rumored nVidia CPU or NPU .

I'm so confused at how people could be thinking otherwise. This has been known for a while and Windows, Arm and Nvidia all tweeting the same thing made it obvious.

Windows on Arm has been a failure so far. Many blame MS, but the truth is there has been only one player so far, Qualcomm. With Nvidia getting into the game, the potential for powerful and efficient laptop is high, but so are expectations.

Playing on the Qualcomm chips is not great, can Nvidia make these machines all-rounders? Can they offer a reasonable price that isn't put to shame in every price-range by Apple?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Fck both of these companies, fck Windows and fck RTX.

Coordinated garbage.

 

[SScorpio]

I'm so confused at how people could be thinking otherwise. This has been known for a while and Windows, Arm and Nvidia all tweeting the same thing made it obvious.

Windows on Arm has been a failure so far. Many blame MS, but the truth is there has been only one player so far, Qualcomm. With Nvidia getting into the game, the potential for powerful and efficient laptop is high, but so are expectations.

Playing on the Qualcomm chips is not great, can Nvidia make these machines all-rounders? Can they offer a reasonable price that isn't put to shame in every price-range by Apple?

I'm hoping for a billionaire pissing match and NVIDIA attempts to outdo the MacBook Neo. Sure that's running a phone/tablet SOC. But NVIDIA can do hardware, the Shield is expensive, but still the set top box to beat seven years later and it's still getting system updates.

 

[Hector Hall]

Between this, Harmony in China, Steam OS etc I think the PC space will start to divide into subregions

 

[Shogmaster]

This is their ARM SoC platform crap. N1X. Qualcomm getting unwanted roommate for Windows on ARM.

 

[FingerBang]

I'm hoping for a billionaire pissing match and NVIDIA attempts to outdo the MacBook Neo. Sure that's running a phone/tablet SOC. But NVIDIA can do hardware, the Shield is expensive, but still the set top box to beat seven years later and it's still getting system updates.

I think the chances of Nvidia competing on the low-end against the MacBook Neo are close to 0. Apple built a miracle device by reusing an older chip and cutting cost anywhere they could, strong of years of experience in the field. They could also get away with 8GB of RAM that can work on macOS. If Nvidia were to build their own device, they'd be starting from zero. As far as I understand, it would be the same manufacturers that make other Windows laptops to build the N1X machines.

I tihnk these will be $2000 machines, going after the Strix Halo/Panther Lake segment.

 

[SScorpio]

I think the chances of Nvidia competing on the low-end against the MacBook Neo are close to 0. Apple built a miracle device by reusing an older chip and cutting cost anywhere they could, strong of years of experience in the field. They could also get away with 8GB of RAM that can work on macOS. If Nvidia were to build their own device, they'd be starting from zero. As far as I understand, it would be the same manufacturers that make other Windows laptops to build the N1X machines.

I tihnk these will be $2000 machines, going after the Strix Halo/Panther Lake segment.

With N1X? Probably not. But the Shield uses the SOC of the Switch. I wonder what the performance of a Switch 2 SOC powered Chromebook could be?

 

[asdasdasdbb]

This has nothing to do with gaming.

It's like Strix Halo. You could game on it but it's mainly going to be aimed at On Device AI.

 

[PaintTinJr]

IMO that was only ever a thing due to Microsoft. Businesses are their main customer not the less than 1% of revenue from consumers. Microsoft since the early days made damn sure all those custom business critical pieces of software would work with minimal if any issues or necessary workarounds.

Some software is already targeting ARM, and in the future it will grow. But it doesn't need to. Unless you are extreme CPU heavy tasks doing x86/64 -> ARM64 has very low overhead already. In terms of gaming Proton with DXVK doing Direct3D to Vulkan is already doing the heavy lifting. You're going from Windows written graphics, to utilizing the GPU of the ARM SOC. Throw in FEX-Emu to handle the CPU side. You can already see people running AAA x64 games on cellphones at playable frame rates. Put it on a performance oriented non-mobile power constrained platform and see what happens. Is it going to kill off the 5090? Of course not. Will it made big inroads with entry level gaming PCs, and be a competitor to consoles? Time will tell, but I really believe it could. Sony should be getting nervous. They are making huge profits right now, but having mini PC sized boxes with a console experience with no subscriptions or locked down BS will be a major competitor.

Despite the consumer to business ratio of earnings, Microsoft has only been the agnostic doorman for 40 years because the consumer numbers with Dos and then the Windows user interface translated into business having a pre-trained Dos/Windows/Word/Excel/Power/Access work force, that drove business spend to be 100 to 1 of consumer spend. So I don't agree with your point because to move the status quo the consumer market needs to adopt Windows and Nvidia ARM as though it is still Windows/x86 and x64 they are using, which I don't see happening for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post.


RaspberryPi and SteamOS are both positioning themselves as program centric like DOS and Windows "PC" were at their core. Add good performance to RaspberryPi and SteamOS hardware to rival x86/x84 and the resistance to those systems drops relative to Windows/X64 and makes the proprietary Nvidia ARM strategies look like even worse risk platforms than they already look relative to Windows/x86 & x64, linux/x86 & x64 or ARM IMO.

Nvidia need to make Cuda/Cg/DLSS hardware agnostic to win this battle IMO, which they are never going to do, unless forced by the EU/UK as a technology gatekeeper.

 

[StereoVsn]

This sounds expensive. I am thinking $3K+.

 

[StereoVsn]

Fck both of these companies, fck Windows and fck RTX.

Coordinated garbage.

Since it's Nvidia that's involved, Linux support should be possible.

 

[kasrkinsquad]

Between this, Harmony in China, Steam OS etc I think the PC space will start to divide into subregions

It might. The future is multi-OS that's the thing I'm 100% sure on.

 

[daffyduck]

It's Windows on nVidia's ARM SoC(s) obviously. The chip was already announced last year (it's the same one as in DGX Spark).

If it's the same price as the DGX Spark, then the hype is pointless.

 

[Puscifer]

This is their ARM SoC platform crap. N1X. Qualcomm getting unwanted roommate for Windows on ARM.

QC has been dropping the ball tremendously on Windows. Nvidia, for all their faults, are like Apple that when it's ready, it's ready, and you're going to get an amazing OOB experience.

Being that Nvidia also has these sparks running Linux and they are actively pushing drivers like crazy for it also has me hoping this chip will give us ARM on Linux proper.

The guy in charge of that project still has a blog on their website about it but was either fired or quit because he's at a totally different company now and they just stopped.

 

[phant0m]

I m guessing dlss 5 full reveal next week at computex

But then again what does MS has to do with this ? Their consoles and project H are all AMD.

Unless not dlss 5 related news

It could be the new Nvidia SoC/APU partnership with MS

MS going Nvidia for Helix would be a fucking power move

 

[PauloRoberto]

MS going Nvidia for Helix would be a fucking power move

And erase any possible chance of getting market share given the price....

 

[Signalis]

N1XGA