Approaching from water means they don't lose any men fighting on land en route to King's Landing. They had no earthly idea a weapon as devastating as wildfire would be used. Imagine the fleet wasn't almost totally destroyed by the explosion and all those ships and men landed and attacked the gate. Game over, Stannis is the winner.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
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Approaching from water means they don't lose any men fighting on land en route to King's Landing. They had no earthly idea a weapon as devastating as wildfire would be used. Imagine the fleet wasn't almost totally destroyed by the explosion and all those ships and men landed and attacked the gate. Game over, Stannis is the winner.
Does anyone else think that had Ned sided with Littlefinger and Renly, that Littlefinger wouldn't have betrayed him?
I think Littlefinger sensed Ned's weakness and lack of resolve and so went against him.
Had Ned actually said, yes, let's do this, I would be interested to have seen what would have happened.
I think Littlefinger sensed Ned's weakness and lack of resolve and so went against him.
Had Ned actually said, yes, let's do this, I would be interested to have seen what would have happened.
It's hard to say. Ned definitely needed men to accomplish anything, and trusting Littlefinger to have the king's guard sway in his favor was a terrible mistake, even when Littlefinger himself warned him they would obey the man who was paying them.
I love that scene because it could be understood that Ned meant for Littlefinger to convince them, considering he is the one in charge of the money for the king (thus, he pays them) but in reality, he isn't the one who was paying them, it was the Lannisters. I think at that moment Littlefinger realized that Ned didn't have what it took to make it happen, and with Renly and with Loras' men gone, it was impossible for him to accomplish anything.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
But if Theon didn't take Winterfell Rodrik and his men would still be holding it, Ramsay wouldn't get the go ahead from Roose to attack the castle and even if he did it of his own volition he didn't know it as well as Theon did, nor would he be facing an almost empty garrison as I already mentioned. If Winterfell isn't taken and Bran and Rickon aren't thought dead or lost, who knows how any number of events play out from there? Also, Theon's dad is both mad and an arsehole but he may not have attacked the north if his son was still a ward (and still had his dick). I don't think you can really say anything would "definitely" happen when dealing with alternate timelines in a series like this.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
Theon's father decided to attack the north because they were distracted with things in the south. Theon did what he was supposed to, which was go and try to get help. His father was like lol fuck that, decided to call himself king of the iron islands and invade the north. He wasn't going to just attack random parts of the north and leave the seat of its power untouched. His son WAS still a ward. When Theon wrote out the letter, thinking of warning Robb, what would he have been writing to warn Robb about unless Balon had already made his decision to go forward with the plans? Perhaps Bran and Rickon wouldn't be thought dead...because they'd actually BE dead because Balon's men most likely wouldn't have gone in like Theon did and politely ask them to yield. I'm not sure where the idea that the castle wouldn't be almost empty comes from. Like I said, I thought the whole reason Balon decided to strike out was because the north was vulnerable being preoccupied with the south. Theon actually made things a little less bad for the northerners and worse for himself by attacking Winterfell. He tried to minimize casualties and spared the true lords. But now he's cockless, without any real family besides his sister, and likely going to be killed after Ramsay has his fun. If he didn't take Winterfell, he would have either stayed at the iron islands (doubt that for some reason) or went back to Robb. In which case he would have died at the wedding. Because Balon would still have attacked Winterfell, but with more men and better thought out, Robb would have still married Talisa, Roose would have still sent his bastard to take back Winterfell, Catlyn would have still released Jaime, the Karstarks would have still been pissed and lashed out, etc . The role Theon played in the destruction of Winterfell is quite small, the way I see it.
This is a very poorly structured paragraph/blob-o-text...Oops
I don't think Balon wanted to go as far as Winterfell, he only wanted the close seaside villages and stuff.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
I only say he wanted to go that far in because there's no way he could have been stupid enough to think the northerners would just be okay with him chilling in their castle and raiding the coastline. The only way he could have hoped to hold any of the land is if he struck out at the heart of the northern power while he could. BUT he did lead a botched rebellion, so perhaps he's not as smart as I'm giving him credit for...
RustyNails
Member
Some of the greatest emperors in our history died in dumb ways, like slipping and falling from stairs, falling off horse saddle or something.
Don't forget how Luthor Tyrell died: rode right off a cliff while looking up at the sky.
BobTheFork
Member
I started watching the show from the start again and something caught me.
King Robert mentioning the first person he killed was 'some Tarly boy'
Is that Sam's family?
I thought they had mention some Tarly rebellion before.
I wonder if that will ever come up, or if anyone will care or if we ever meets his shithole father.
King Robert mentioning the first person he killed was 'some Tarly boy'
Is that Sam's family?
I thought they had mention some Tarly rebellion before.
I wonder if that will ever come up, or if anyone will care or if we ever meets his shithole father.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
I've just found a transcript of the episode, and rewatched the scene to verify
Balon says: The wolf pup has gone south with the entirety of the northern army at his back. While he's tangling with the lion in the Westerlands, the north is ripe for the taking. The Ironborn will reave and pillage as it was in the old days all along the northern coast. We'll spread our dominion across the green lands, securing the Neck and everything above. Every stronghold will yield to us one by one. Winterfell may defy us for a year, but what of it? The rest shall be ours--forest, field and hall. Yara, my daughter, you'll take 30 longships to attack Deepwood Motte.
Basically, he sent Theon to go do some nothing job. To be an annoying little mosquito along the coast. His job wasn't important at all, which is why Theon was upset. He had every intention of invading after he learned that they were preoccupied.
And Robb says in his last episode that the north is overrun with ironborn, I think.
Whaaa. I don't remember this. When/where was it?
Olenna said it when talking to Sansa.
Ingueferroque
Banned
How far into the books are we at the end of Season 3? Just to get a sense.
I think I'm going to start reading the books now, to make the wait more bearable.
I think I'm going to start reading the books now, to make the wait more bearable.
I'm pretty sure that the Tarly's are Tyrell bannermen so they likely fought against Robert during the rebellion. The boy he killed might have just been wearing Tarly colours rather then being an actual relation of Sam.
aparisi2274
Member
Somewhere in the middle of Book 3. Season 4 is going to be the 2nd half of the book.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Thanks!
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Hedge Knights, Sellswords, squires, any number up reasons he could have been a "Tarly boy" besides related to Sam.
CitizenVectron
Member
And in fact he still would have won even for the wildfire, but for Tywin showing up with house Tyrell.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
But if you like the books so much that the show ends up being terrible, wouldn't that make it not worth it? Finding other ways to endure the wait would mean you get to enjoy the show AND you get to enjoy the books after the show is over. But this way you risk the books being so much better comparatively that the show seems "meh." I don't see too many book readers who are equally as positive about the show as people who don't read them. But I only know a small sample group of fans, so I could be wrong.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Balon had made plans, but you can't say for certain if he would have gone ahead with them if Theon was in a position to have his head cut off by Robb the instant the Iron Islands attacked the North. As for taking Winterfell, I have to disagree. It's too far from the sea, and Theon's sister told him as much. There was no plan to strike that far inland; if there was, reinforcements would have flocked to Theon when he took the castle, instead of leaving him outnumbered and alone deep in enemy territory. Theon wanted to prove he was worthy of his father's name, and suggested to Dagmer that they try and take Torrhen's square, but knew that it couldn't be held for long. That was when he thought up the plan to take Winterfell - attack Torrhen's square, draw out the Stark troops from Winterfell, then take it while it was lightly held. Which is exactly what happened.
EDIT: I see you're talking about that quote of Balon's... he might have been being a little optimistic, and did say that Winterfell would only fall after a longer period. I think the odds of a castle like that falling in a siege to raiders like the islanders would have been pretty low. Theon was absolutely key to the fall of Winterfell, and I stand by my earlier statement that if the Iron Islanders were in any position to mount a serious attack on it they would have moved to occupy it as soon as they heard that Theon had taken it instead of basically abandoning him.
CreepingFear
Member
I'm half way through book one now. I don't want the possibility of some book reader trying to spill another red wedding type event. The bad thing is that I do picture the actor's from the show now instead of the descriptions the books give you.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
Personally I'd rather get spoiled and still have a chance to enjoy both, than read and end up finding the show inferior and being unable to enjoy it. But everyone's different so good luck, ser.
Yes you can say for certain he would have gone ahead with them because given how he treated Theon when he got back and that he won't go get him, it's pretty clear that he doesn't care about him. His head being at risk of getting cut off means slightly more than nothing to him. The only reason he didn't lead another rebellion is because he didn't have the opportunity. The reinforcements didn't come because Theon disobeyed and attacked when he wasn't supposed to. As I said, he was given some shit job to keep him out of the way and not really contribute anything to the effort. He was treated like a small child being thrown a bone to shut them up.
Theon's SISTER told him it's too far inland. That could be her own opinion, I don't remember the wording of the scene. She clearly doesn't mindlessly agree with their father, given the finale. Again, he explicitly stated his plans to take all of the north. The position inland doesn't matter. Also again, Robb said the north was overrun with ironborn. I don't really see anything to disagree with about taking Winterfell. Those desires were stated explicitly and Balon was acting towards them. It's just that in his plan, that was a goal further down the line.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
The north is so overrun with Ironborn that they were incapable of holding or reinforcing Winterfell, of finding the two children of a Lord heading north from the neck or two Lord's children, two Princes, two direwolves, a wildling and a Hodor heading to the Wall or of threatening the Umbers or Boltons. Theon's dad doesn't care that much about him as a person but he's still his only living son. Once again, that meant a lot more back when he still had his junk, so you can't take the refusal to ransom him now and apply it to an earlier situation. The distance inland absolutely matters, the Iron Islanders are pretty clearly Viking types whose power is tied to the sea and coastal raiding. Balon may have planned to take Winterfell farther down the line, but I strongly doubt he would have succeeded. The timing also matters, one can't just assume that the Greyjoys would not only attack Winterfell but also would succeed and that as a result everything else would transpire as it did if they were only preparing for a siege by the time of the RW. Robb may have decided to send a larger force north to head off a siege instead of gathering forces to attack the West. Basically my point is that it's almost impossible to be certain about how things would play out in series so densely interwoven as this when you change even a single element.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
I just got spoiled the fates of multiple huge characters that will probably account for years worth of upcoming seasons in a thread on the gaming side about a Don Mattrick quote by user "hteng". He spoiler tagged it but it was so obvious what he was implying that it was impossible to avoid. In a fucking a gaming thread, out of nowhere, in response to some shitty GoT meme another guy posted. I cannot believe this. One fucking sentence just ruined everything. I hope you rot in hell, hteng. I'm logging out, I don't even want to think about the site anymore, I'm done.
That sucks.
That's fucked man..... my condolences.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Yeah I saw it too.
Fuuuck me. So I take it that it is a real spoiler. smh.
smh. probably the worse usage of a spoiler tag i've seen.
Fuuuck me. So I take it that it is a real spoiler. smh.
smh. probably the worse usage of a spoiler tag i've seen.
BuggyDClown
Member
Answer to your question: no plot points, just an answer.
I don't want to lay credence to what might be right or wrong, so let me simply say no. He is not correct if everything he said was to be true. I will not elaborate on what is wrong though. You have plenty to watch/learn and those events will not end with the "spoiled results" so watch knowing you still do not know
toastyToast
Member
I would delete my first PM, I didn't see your post till now. D: oops.
Chuckie
Member
Could you send me one too?
toastyToast
Member
It's all good. I already took that L
Sent
Don't accidentally give me the page number too lol
Same here, if someone would be kind enough?
toastyToast
Member
I can't imagine how much it must suck to browse the internet worrying about being spoiled each and every day for the next 4+ years. Just another reason I'd go and read the books
I'm reading the books now. The show is so good but man, I don't think I'll be able to continue like this. I'd much rather see all the big revelations in visual form.
timetokill
Banned
If somebody would, please PM me the "spoiler" as well
Nameless
Member
I might read the books up to the Red Wedding, primarily for the extra lore, but being so invested in the show it would make little sense to cannibalize that experience this far in. Hell, I'll be picturing characters as they're portrayed in the series anyway. Besides, with Breaking Bad ending this year and Mad Men in 2014, Thrones will headline an ever shrinking list of shows worth getting excited for.
No idea why some are eager to blow their load so soon. Burn through the novels over the summer and then what ? At GRRM's work pace there's no telling when you'll see the story the progress. The series will probably hit Martin's wall as well, but 4-5 seasons from now. All things considered that seems like the better proposition. As a Dark Tower late bloomer I've read testimonials of its fan's agony and can only imagine.... Yea I'll keep my experience fresh for as long as possible.
No idea why some are eager to blow their load so soon. Burn through the novels over the summer and then what ? At GRRM's work pace there's no telling when you'll see the story the progress. The series will probably hit Martin's wall as well, but 4-5 seasons from now. All things considered that seems like the better proposition. As a Dark Tower late bloomer I've read testimonials of its fan's agony and can only imagine.... Yea I'll keep my experience fresh for as long as possible.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
It takes a special kind of asshole to get enjoyment out of ruining things for people. I didn't see the post, but it looks like the user has been banned?
Captain_Spanky
Member
Me too please
User 100115
Banned
It sounds like another user said the spoiler might be fake, so that's good? I don't know what it is so I can't confirm or deny (Would also like a pm pls)
(Would also like a pm pls)Yep and the thread is clear now.
toastyToast
Member
From PMing a few people already it seems that the spoiler was (spoiler about the validity of the spoiler)
No need to fret people. It's been dealt with.
____________sort of true__________
No need to fret people. It's been dealt with.
The background lore really helps your appreciate some of the events going on in the show. I think a way to get a feel for Westeros history without, too many, spoilers would be reading the Dunk and Egg novels by GRRM. It takes place like a century before GoT starts.
Never thought I'd get spoiled in that thread but I'm with you man. I don't get pissed over any of the minor spoilers that some people on the gaming side go crazy over but this is one story I'm avidly avoiding spoilers over and now one asshole ruined a big part of the fun for me with my favorite character on the show.
It took a while, but he's banned now and I can't emphasize how pissed I am that people do that for some sick form of fun. Doing scummy things behind a computer doesn't make them any less scummy...
Maybe I'll try and visualize the funny GoT moment that happened in golf during the U.S. Open on Sunday where someone screamed "THE KING OF THE NORTH!!!" after an English player hit his shot. I found it hilarious and perfect but the player didn't like it so much and he went on to win I believe therefore making the GoT reference perfect for the situation.
It took a while, but he's banned now and I can't emphasize how pissed I am that people do that for some sick form of fun. Doing scummy things behind a computer doesn't make them any less scummy...
Maybe I'll try and visualize the funny GoT moment that happened in golf during the U.S. Open on Sunday where someone screamed "THE KING OF THE NORTH!!!" after an English player hit his shot. I found it hilarious and perfect but the player didn't like it so much and he went on to win I believe therefore making the GoT reference perfect for the situation.
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