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[BakedPigeon]

No,
NY-LA in about 6-8 hours maybe less :O

Spoiler

DC too

Lets go back to Transcontinental railways.
Something like this:

Super high speed 300mph +

I would support this if they could re-route that track from its current quarter-mile distance from my house. I like sleep.

 

[rykomatsu]

Super high speed 300mph +

i thought above 240mph or somewhere thereabouts, lift generated becomes a huge issue...

nm: i guess TGV already surpassed that by a longshot

 

[avatar299]

Read the article. It explains alot if not all of those questions. High Speed Rail is working out in every country that has adopted it. There is no where currently where it has failed. Whats wasteful is the current way we've been building our infrastructure, which at the moment, is complete shit.

Most countries that have done it have not tried anything to this scale, and many of the countries who build these type of trains poured money into it just to pour money it it. The Japaneses rail cost over multiple trillions and are also privately owned and operated, unlike this proposed rail system. Putting that kind of strain onto of our already huge debt, which will soon have universal health care and the like put on it too is ridiculous.

Construction begins in 2011 with the first phase (SF to LA through Central Valley) to be completed and operational in 2020.

That part of the system was always going to be built. Prop 1 issued the bonds that allowed the rail to be finished. We won't likely see the full rail until after 2020

 

[Zeke]

I'm all for this, this would be awesome to finally have in the US

 

[avatar299]

God forbid the study/planning/engineering stage of a project is a significant cost of said project...

dumb has worked wonderful for all these years, MOAR, STRONGER, DUMBER, VICTORY!!

Do you plan on paying the $30+ billion debt California is in right now

 

[Carlisle]

Good God this needs to happen.

After living in Japan for a year and a half without a car and still being able to get to anywhere from the big city metropolis to the shithole village in the mountains with no trouble... I've seen the light. Driving sucks.

 

[Dice]

Yessssss... get me to Chicago in 30 minutes.

 

[phfresno]

Most countries that have done it have not tried anything to this scale, and many of the countries who build these type of trains poured money into it just to pour money it it. The Japaneses rail cost over multiple trillions and are also privately owned and operated, unlike this proposed rail system. Putting that kind of strain onto of our already huge debt, which will soon have universal health care and the like put on it too is ridiculous.


That part of the system was always going to be built. Prop 1 issued the bonds that allowed the rail to be finished. We won't likely see the full rail until after 2020

The entire U.S. system would take decades. Probably 40 or 50 years. The money would be spread over that time and it would be done in phases (shown in the second map in the original post.) The advantage we have in the U.S. is to look at those other countries' mistakes and learn from it.

Prop 1 issued bonds that allowed the first phase to start. We still need $12-$15 billion from the federal government (and I have full believe that we will get those funds from the Obama Administration) and $2-$3 billion from local governments, and $5 billion in private investments. That's how SF to LA will get built. Phase 2 is Fresno to Sacramento, and LA to San Diego which will get funded from revenue from Phase 1 operations and state and federal funds. Phase 2 should be complete and operational by 2030.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Fast trains...woohoo. Probably won't see it until 2050 at the earliest. And then it will be obsolete 50 years after that when the transporter becomes fully functional.

So basically we'll be enjoying these things in the next life...not this one.

 

[ndiicm]

They need to run tons of dark fiber as they go. That way they can kill two birds with one stone. Will any of this happen? probably not in our lifetime. This government bails out big corporations in the guise of helping the little guy. You want to create jobs? Invest in real infrastructure. idiots

 

[xbhaskarx]

Why does Sacramento have rail service only to the central valley and not to Oakland / San Francisco / San Jose?
This person knows nothing about what the people of Sacramento would want.

 

[Marvie_3]

Directly connect Sioux Falls, SD with Minneapolis and I'm all for it.

 

[phfresno]

Why does Sacramento have rail service only to the central valley and not to Oakland / San Francisco / San Jose?
This person knows nothing about what the people of Sacramento would want.

A rail line is being proposed to SF/Oakland from Sacramento. It might not be true high speed rail though (220mph), probably just standard speed (70 to 120mph).

 

[woodchuck]

looks fucking awesome...but i doubt i'll be alive when we'll finally get a respectable interstate rail network

 

[btkadams]

looks great! i can't wait for the one linking up calgary and edmonton.

 

[Elfforkusu]

All arguments against this pale in comparison to how awesome it would be. Make it so, number one

...and yes, you're going to have to spend a fair amount on planning. Unless your aim is to waste money, in which case go ahead, start building right now and see where that gets you.

 

[Benjamin_MFF]

Awesome!!!!!

 

[QVT]

The southern section pictures look exactly like how I run trains in Railroad Tycoon 3. Clearly I should be brought on as a highly paid advisor since I managed to do that for free with no reward except a high score screen that only I would ever see.

 

[Pachael]

The southern section pictures look exactly like how I run trains in Railroad Tycoon 3. Clearly I should be brought on as a highly paid advisor since I managed to do that for free with no reward except a high score screen that only I would ever see.

Thanks, now I feel like playing Railroad Tycoon 3 again

 

[pirahna1]

This needs to happen. If we had mass transit in the states, man, it would be amazing. I can never visit out-of-state due to time and costs, but with this, I could hop a train and goto concerts, games, events, parks, you name it!

I see a lot of questionable routes (why is Williamsport, PA [hometown, yo] closed off from Scranton - would be a lot quicker to NYC if there was a shorty line. But I'm all over this.

Oh, and there NEEDS to be a high-speed rail from DC/NYC to LA. I can see the air industry shaking in their boots, but I don't think it would affect them all that much.

 

[Gallbaro]

First of all I love choo choos and I even ride Amtrak out of the NEC (the slow trains).

A high speed intercity rail network is useless until America has decent intracity public transit.


That is why such a network is only possible when the idea of owning your own 2000 sq ft house 30+ miles from the closest city is completely incompatible with this style of transit.

That and fly over states are still much better served by airports due to the large fixed costs and the NEC needs entirely new ROW, I have seen estimates for the NEC's new ROW, including eminent domain, and three new sets of tunnels, 2 in Manhattan and 1 in Baltimore.

You think the auto bailout is expensive?

 

[pirahna1]

First of all I love choo choos and I even ride Amtrak out of the NEC (the slow trains).
A high speed intercity rail network is useless until America has decent intracity public transit.

Needs moar buses. I, however, think a intercontinental system would take off much quicker than an intracity. People love their cars, but how many of them would take road trips cross country when they could just hop a train for half the time/cost/etc.

 

[Gallbaro]

Needs moar buses. I, however, think a intercontinental system would take off much quicker than an intracity. People love their cars, but how many of them would take road trips cross country when they could just hop a train for half the time/cost/etc.

When it comes to rail there are two very different ways to position a station. In the city center, which is directed more towards business travel as it is to be used frequently and by many. This then means that you cannot drive to the station. New York Penn Station.

OR you can position the station out in the sticks, outside the city. Here you can have lots of parking but then instead of the convenience of rail, you have an experience more akin to an airport. Amtrak's Auto train.

 

[eznark]

So tickets would cost what, $3000? Or will this get Amtrak style subsidies?

 

[Gallbaro]

So tickets would cost what, $3000? Or will this get Amtrak style subsidies?

I do not know how snarky this is, but per passenger mile, the total subsidy towards Amtrak is actually less than the other modes since their federal inception.

 

[Raistlin]

If it's feasible cost-wise, I'm ALL for it.

I only wish there a way to bypass heading to Albany to go south from Buffalo. Regardless, a convenient couple hour ride to NYC, and hour ride to Toronto = awesome.

 

[Jonm1010]

My first question would be how would the cost be for the average person. How many trips could actually be made a day and how many people on each trip.

Second, if it is affordable I think my venture would be setting up a rental service outside every station that would allow quick access for people to hybrid or electric vehicles that can be rented on a daily or weekly basis for commute at your destination.

 

[Gallbaro]

If it's feasible cost-wise, I'm ALL for it.

I only wish there a way to bypass heading to Albany to go south from Buffalo. Regardless, a convenient couple hour ride to NYC, and hour ride to Toronto = awesome.

I do not know if you have ever ridden Amtrak across the border, but customs is not so streamlined.

 

[phfresno]

First of all I love choo choos and I even ride Amtrak out of the NEC (the slow trains).

A high speed intercity rail network is useless until America has decent intracity public transit.


That is why such a network is only possible when the idea of owning your own 2000 sq ft house 30+ miles from the closest city is completely incompatible with this style of transit.

That and fly over states are still much better served by airports due to the large fixed costs and the NEC needs entirely new ROW, I have seen estimates for the NEC's new ROW, including eminent domain, and three new sets of tunnels, 2 in Manhattan and 1 in Baltimore.

You think the auto bailout is expensive?

These are all of the cities that have intercity transit either completed, under construction, or planned:

Austin, Dallas, Denver, Norfolk, Houston, LA, Minneapolis, New Jersey, New York City, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Portland, Salt Lake City, Seattle, Tucson, D.C., Albuquerque, Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Charlotte, Chicago, Cincinnati, Columbus, Detroit, Fort Worth, Harrisburg, Hartford, Honolulu, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Memphis, Miami, Orlando, Philadelphia, Portland, Raleigh, Sacramento, St. Louis, San Antonio, San Francisco, San Jose, Tulsa.

Intercity transit is making huge strides in local and state governments.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Hey guys just because you can take the train doesn't mean you'd take it twice a day. People could go to work during the week, come back home on Friday.

That's how it will be in the future: fewer and fewer people will have access to ownership/property, people will travel longer distances for work, and people will rarely live in one city/town/state for extended periods of time. So on top of this making it harder for people to own a house, it will make it more difficult to start a family.

At least for a wide margin of the population. That's where I think we'll head, unless we have better economic models in the future.

 

[eznark]

I do not know how snarky this is, but per passenger mile, the total subsidy towards Amtrak is actually less than the other modes since their federal inception.

If you go by Amtrak's figures. Personally I prefer the Cato and Heritage studies (which admittedly don't account for all opportunity costs), but that's a matter of choosing who you want to believe to some extent.

The point remains (taking out the snarky Amtrak comment) exactly who is going to be able to afford riding this thing? Boston to DC on Amtrak right now is about $200 on average. If a whole new infrastructure was required?

I don't see how it's feasible, and the fact that no actual numbers are listed in the OP makes it seem like the numbers aren't exactly favorable.

 

[Gallbaro]

These are all of the cities that have intercity transit either completed, under construction, or planned:

Austin, Dallas, Denver, Norfolk, Houston, LA, Minneapolis, New Jersey, New York City, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Portland, Salt Lake City, Seattle, Tucson, D.C., Albuquerque, Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Charlotte, Chicago, Cincinnati, Columbus, Detroit, Fort Worth, Harrisburg, Hartford, Honolulu, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Memphis, Miami, Orlando, Philadelphia, Portland, Raleigh, Sacramento, St. Louis, San Antonio, San Francisco, San Jose, Tulsa.

Intercity transit is making huge strides in local and state governments.

I do not want to sound like an arrogant prick pissing on your dreams, really I do not. I am just a jaded rail fan, the Dick Cheney of rail fans, who would happen to make a significant amount of income if such plans ever came to pass. State governments are completely inept at making any progress on this kinds of programs, because most of their population would much rather have those funds go to adding another lane to what ever congestion clogged road they travel on.

I do not know how familiar you are with Amtrak or their route structures but those cities you listed and the routes which service them are a complete joke, every single one, even the NEC. Also your definition of intercity may be a little off because Honolulu has not intercity rail planned, nor will they ever they just have a voter approved intracity elevated rail project.

Remember I ride these rails, all the way from Portland Maine to San Francisco and I will make money off of any real intercity

 

[Raistlin]

I do not know if you have ever ridden Amtrak across the border, but customs is not so streamlined.

Nah, I usually drive.

Hopefully there is some way to better handle it for the future.

 

[Jonm1010]

I do not want to sound like an arrogant prick pissing on your dreams, really I do not. I am just a jaded rail fan, the Dick Cheney of rail fans, who would happen to make a significant amount of income if such plans ever came to pass. State governments are completely inept at making any progress on this kinds of programs, because most of their population would much rather have those funds go to adding another lane to what ever congestion clogged road they travel on.

I do not know how familiar you are with Amtrak or their route structures but those cities you listed and the routes which service them are a complete joke, every single one, even the NEC. Also your definition of intercity may be a little off because Honolulu has not intercity rail planned, nor will they ever they just have a voter approved intracity elevated rail project.

Remember I ride these rails, all the way from Portland Maine to San Francisco and I will make money off of any real intercity

I dont see why it is required to have intercity railways or lots of in city routes and public transport for this to function properly? Why can't there just be cheap rental cars at each station as a stop gap while intercity systems catch up?

 

[Gallbaro]

I dont see why it is required to have intercity railways for this to function properly? Why can't there just be rental cars at each station as a stop gap while intercity systems catch up?

-Well the first and most obvious problem is future proofing the station. You want the station to be downtown, you want the station to eventually incorporate local public transportation, this also means you need the ROW for all future forms of local transportation into and out of the station, that is impossible in government because it is long term planning with money that would have to put up now in eminent domain battles.

-Another problem is the severe lack of competition with Air travel for most of American Travels. When you get away from the proximity, density and sheer population of coastal cities your ability to fully utilize fixed costs (ROW, Stations) drops dramatically, because how many trains can you fill with people wanting to go within 500 miles (the standard for High speed rail competitiveness with air travel) of their originating cities. Most American cities are nothing more than large suburbs.

But to the extent that you argued their are a few viable corridors in America that could use that Drive to, Drive from model, such as Florida, Ohio, Texas, California and the North West.

 

[mj1108]

its all politics and money. Thankfully, here in Fresno, we're in the first phase

Here in Merced they're talking about trying to get them to put in a maintenance hub for it here (possibly even using the old Castle AFB). Can't wait!

 

[Zozz]

I want this

 

[Gallbaro]

I want this

I want at least parts of it, US is very large compared to the European countries that have it.


It just will not happen until the current ruling generation dies/retires out of power. They where the car generation and their asses are stapled to their seats. It will happen one day, just not now.

 

[Cellbomber]

This is definitely needed and will be great in the Northeast. However they need to make sure the prices are reasonable whenever it's out. Currently it's cheaper and quicker to just fly to NYC from DC.

It's almost getting to the point where it's cheaper to fly than drive with all the tolls and gas:lol

 

[JzeroT1437]

Yes, christ yes. We should've had this finished 30 years ago.

 

[Gallbaro]

This is definitely needed and will be great in the Northeast. However they need to make sure the prices are reasonable whenever it's out. Currently it's cheaper and quicker to just fly to NYC from DC.

It's almost getting to the point where it's cheaper to fly than drive with all the tolls and gas:lol

And you know what all those trains are sold out and trains officially carry more people from NYC->DC/Boston than the airlines do.

And when you look at future costs for that corridor, it could be as low as 7 billion as they need to replace the tunnel in Baltimore before it falls on a train, or as high as 40 billion as the entire damn corridor needs to be replace to go any faster than its current average of 86 miles per hour.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

This would be awesome... but will never happen. The pricetag would be astrofuckingnominal and that's without the inevitable cost overruns etc. Obama has been talking big about infrastructure, but this would be huge and unlikely to be tackled given the current deficits.

 

[artredis1980]

is this an actual proposal being considered or just a guy's pipe dream, if its the 2nd, please, it will never happen

 

[Cellbomber]

And you know what all those trains are sold out and trains officially carry more people from NYC->DC/Boston than the airlines do.

And when you look at future costs for that corridor, it could be as low as 7 billion as they need to replace the tunnel in Baltimore before it falls on a train, or as high as 40 billion as the entire damn corridor needs to be replace to go any faster than its current average of 86 miles per hour.

I know when DC/Baltimore was bidding on the Olympics part of the proposal had a high speed railway system. It said when in place it would take approx 13 minutes from DC-Balt even with something like 13 stops. I remember all the talk hoping it would happen since it would be a perfect test route. They said after the Olympics it would probably spread up the Northeast corridor. It all fell apart when DC/Baltimore didn't get the Olympics.

 

[Cellbomber]

Somehow I double posted. Guess the 500 error helped with it.

 

[Gallbaro]

is this an actual proposal being considered or just a guy's pipe dream, if its the 2nd, please, it will never happen

Pipe dream the closest thing the government has to this is much more modest.

Keep in mind that American defines High Speed Rail as 110 mph or 177 kmh, the rest of the world defines HSR as 150 mph at the minimum.

Have I mentioned the FRA yet? The Federal Rail Administration and their tier of safety requirements is another reason this will be next to impossible.

Our only train that can go 150 mph weighs twice as much as any counterpart.

 

[jamesinclair]

You know those people we vote into office?

They dont want this.

You kow that 800b bill theyre voting on?

"These are the two amendments from Bond:

* One strips all $2 billion set aside for high speed rail and redirects it to highway funds.
* The other takes $5.5 billion from "competitive grants" for transportation and gives it to highways."

http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/04/urgent-action-oppose-highway-robbery-in-senate-stim-bill/

 

[Gallbaro]

You know those people we vote into office?

They dont want this.

You kow that 800b bill theyre voting on?

"These are the two amendments from Bond:

* One strips all $2 billion set aside for high speed rail and redirects it to highway funds.
* The other takes $5.5 billion from "competitive grants" for transportation and gives it to highways."

http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/04/urgent-action-oppose-highway-robbery-in-senate-stim-bill/

Yup I called this in some other thread. This is how it works people, the flyover states hate anything that is not car based.

The reason why Amtrak has its current route structure is so they serve enough congressional districts to guarantee funding!:lol

 

[Nerevar]

It's sad to read this and think about all the people saying it'll never happen, it's too expensive - just look at how much we spend on highways every year. I mean, if this were to cost $500 billion and take 20 years, that would still cost less than 15% of what we spend on highways on a yearly basis. It's nuts - you people have no idea where your money is going, do you?

 

[Gallbaro]

It's sad to read this and think about all the people saying it'll never happen, it's too expensive - just look at how much we spend on highways every year. I mean, if this were to cost $500 billion and take 20 years, that would still cost less than 15% of what we spend on highways on a yearly basis. It's nuts - you people have no idea where your money is going, do you?

I know, but the problem is the current generation in charge of this country and the entire fucking flyover portion, sees any money going to passenger rail as a waste of money, no matter what fraction the actual cost is compared to highways..