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Alan Wake II | Spoiler Discussion Thread

KyoZz

Tag, you're it.
⚠️ UNMARKED SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD ⚠️

You just finished Alan Wake II and want to talk about the ending? This is the right place.

And remember: it's not a Loop, it's a Spiral...


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alan-wake-2-ahti.gif
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Is Mr. Door Saga's father? That would explain why she can get out of The Dark Place. He also wants to help Saga (with the page that the Sheriff gives us)
Who (or what) is Ahti? Why is he helping us? His name is a direct reference to the Finnish God of the Seas and Lakes and knowing Remedy this is not a coincidence.




I will update this topic later as I just finished the game. Need some time to think about the ending but I saw this thread was requested, now we can all talk freely about what's to come with the 2 DLCs!
 
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TVexperto

Member
The ending is awful and makes no sense. It's a rushed and unsatisfying cliffhanger that kinda left me with more questions than answers. The game never explains how Alan escaped the Dark Place, what happened to Alice or the significance of the post-credits scene... its a major disappointment that ruins the game for me

soooo

How did Alan Wake escape from the Dark Place or what happened to Alice Wake?

I hope Remedy will eventually release DLC or a sequel that will provide some closure to the story of Alan Wake. I can't recommend the game to anyone, especially to a fan like me of the first game.
 
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Ulysses 31

Member
The ending is awful and makes no sense. It's a rushed and unsatisfying cliffhanger that kinda left me with more questions than answers. The game never explains how Alan escaped the Dark Place, what happened to Alice or the significance of the post-credits scene... its a major disappointment that ruins the game for me

soooo

How did Alan Wake escape from the Dark Place or what happened to Alice Wake?

I hope Remedy will eventually release DLC or a sequel that will provide some closure to the story of Alan Wake. I can't recommend the game to anyone, especially to a fan like me of the first game.
2 Story DLCs were planned before the game's release so likely the current ending is DLC bait.
 

Luipadre

Member
2 Story DLCs were planned before the game's release so likely the current ending is DLC bait.
Dont think so. They definitely setting up to a 3rd game. Dlc might answer some questions tho. I think this game was a masterpiece in storytelling. This is a game that i will remember for the rest of my life and definitely in my top 5 of all time games.
 
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Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
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I know Quantum Break is not part of AW/Control world but this guy was talking about having dream as different person in different world, I guess it’s more of easter egg than anything.
 
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The ending is awful and makes no sense. It's a rushed and unsatisfying cliffhanger that kinda left me with more questions than answers. The game never explains how Alan escaped the Dark Place, what happened to Alice or the significance of the post-credits scene... its a major disappointment that ruins the game for me...
well, unfortunately, the ending's actually perfectly of a piece with the entire game, imo: the ultimate 'spiral' (aka, 'the phenomenon formerly known as 'loop''), dumping wake all the way back to - ta-da! square one. making one ask: is this game pretty much nothing but a wacky, fireworks-filled re-enactment of the myth of sysyphus, & is that the reason the whole game felt like 20+ hours of doing nothing so much as pushing a huge stone up a hill to me?...
 
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Mr. Door being Saga’s father is almost a given.

- disappeared around Bright Falls in ‘88
- has not aged
- Saga’s father had a conflict with Tor and he left in ‘88
- Door was struck by lightning before disappearing
- Door said Wake trapped someone in the Dark Place that is dear to him

So it makes sense Tor made him disappear and that’s why Saga’s mother is mad at him.


I know Inception was one of the inspirations, but that ending was just a bit too similar to that movie.
 
The ending is awful and makes no sense. It's a rushed and unsatisfying cliffhanger that kinda left me with more questions than answers. The game never explains how Alan escaped the Dark Place, what happened to Alice or the significance of the post-credits scene... its a major disappointment that ruins the game for me

soooo

How did Alan Wake escape from the Dark Place or what happened to Alice Wake?

I hope Remedy will eventually release DLC or a sequel that will provide some closure to the story of Alan Wake. I can't recommend the game to anyone, especially to a fan like me of the first game.
Finished it 5 minutes ago.
From what I understand, Alan got out of the dark place but so did scratch during the summoning and hence the dark presence was free to consume reality. So in order to kill it, he had to write a suitable ending with him paying the price (essential by being a real martyr) to save bright falls. His 'price to pay' brought him back to the dark place.

Alice said she wanted to be the art instead of artist clued me in that she dove back to cauldron lake sometime after control awe expansion. She then deus ex machina the entire plot I guess. No idea how that happen though.


At least "its not a lake its an ocean" is answered though, the dark place is unfathomably large that it covers pretty much every other reality. "A mirror to every possibly reality" said Door and possibly his subway station to other dimensions.
 
Mr. Door being Saga’s father is almost a given.

- disappeared around Bright Falls in ‘88
- has not aged
- Saga’s father had a conflict with Tor and he left in ‘88
- Door was struck by lightning before disappearing
- Door said Wake trapped someone in the Dark Place that is dear to him

So it makes sense Tor made him disappear and that’s why Saga’s mother is mad at him.


I know Inception was one of the inspirations, but that ending was just a bit too similar to that movie.
Mr Door is also probably Martin Hatch from QB. Too similar a character and is tormenting TimeBreaker.
 

RickSanchez

Member
i think i'm about halfway through the game (the FBC just arrested Alan), and i still do not have a clue where all of this might be going. Will come back here to understand things more after ive finished the game.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Damn it, now I don't know if I want to finish the first or not. Maybe I will, just because of the completionist in me.

Don't play Alan Wake for the destination, play for the journey.

"Stephen King" is literally the very first thing uttered in Alan Wake 1 and along with the numerous Twin Peaks references, a big signpost about what kind of story this will be. King's novels are notorious for weak endings - and Sam Lake knows that - and Twin Peaks is famous/infamous for never truly explaining its own nature, including coming back for a new series 20 years later that only raised more questions than it answered.

Basically, no matter how many AW/Control games/DLCs they make, they'll never truly provide a full resolution to the plot because it's part of the beauty of the mystery.
 

Dazraell

Member
Just like the first game, the ending sucked ass and will now need to buy the dlc to get more explanation.
I may be wrong here, but I got a feeling they're aiming to explain the cliffhanger on New Game+, which will be apparently available for free. At least that was the impression I've got based on post-credits scene

From what they revealed on FAQ is that first DLC will be a standalone-ish story that isn't related to game per say, and other one is focused around Lake House which looked like a loose thread from the main game. So it doesn't look they're aiming to repeat the same thing they did with DLCs for Alan Wake 1
 

Zathalus

Member
Don't play Alan Wake for the destination, play for the journey.

"Stephen King" is literally the very first thing uttered in Alan Wake 1 and along with the numerous Twin Peaks references, a big signpost about what kind of story this will be. King's novels are notorious for weak endings - and Sam Lake knows that - and Twin Peaks is famous/infamous for never truly explaining its own nature, including coming back for a new series 20 years later that only raised more questions than it answered.

Basically, no matter how many AW/Control games/DLCs they make, they'll never truly provide a full resolution to the plot because it's part of the beauty of the mystery.
100% this, I mean:

Stephen King once wrote that “Nightmares exist outside of logic, and there’s little fun to be had in explanations; they’re antithetical to the poetry of fear.” In a horror story, the victim keeps asking "Why?" But there can be no explanation, and there shouldn’t be one. The unanswered mystery is what stays with us the longest, and it’s what we’ll remember in the end.

I think that about sums it up.
 
i think i'm about halfway through the game (the FBC just arrested Alan), and i still do not have a clue where all of this might be going. Will come back here to understand things more after ive finished the game.
Get out of here! Finish the game and don't spoil it for yourself.
 

Calverz

Member
I may be wrong here, but I got a feeling they're aiming to explain the cliffhanger on New Game+, which will be apparently available for free. At least that was the impression I've got based on post-credits scene

From what they revealed on FAQ is that first DLC will be a standalone-ish story that isn't related to game per say, and other one is focused around Lake House which looked like a loose thread from the main game. So it doesn't look they're aiming to repeat the same thing they did with DLCs for Alan Wake 1
Yea since I posted that, I think I read that new game + will have an alternative ending? I did enjoy the game. The second half was a lot better in my opinion. The start is a slow burner.
 

Dazraell

Member
Yea since I posted that, I think I read that new game + will have an alternative ending? I did enjoy the game. The second half was a lot better in my opinion. The start is a slow burner.
I've noticed some articles about datamined content which listed extended ending, new pages of the manuscript and some additional videos. But I don't think anything was officially announced yet
 
I didn't get Alex Casey.

He's a character in Alan's bestseller book and he is also a real life FBI agent with the same voice as the character.

Wat?
 
I didn't get Alex Casey.

He's a character in Alan's bestseller book and he is also a real life FBI agent with the same voice as the character.

Wat?
His part is kinda confusing.
Let's say for the sake of simplicity that everything in the dark place regarding Alex Casey is obviously fiction.
Real world Alex Casey is an FBI agent.
The power of the dark place and the similarities between fictional Casey and real Casey (same name, both investigators, both investigating a cult) made the fictional Casey's life affect real Casey's life.
That's how he got entangled in the whole story, just by coincidentally sharing the same name and line of work as the fictional character.
As for how they look and sound the same, that I'm not sure but it's probably something like The Dark Place borrowing elements from real life. In this case, borrowing the look of a person similar to the character in the story (this also explains Ilmo and Jakko being cult leaders in real life and in The Dark Place).
 
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His part is kinda confusing.
Let's say for the sake of simplicity that everything in the dark place regarding Alex Casey is obviously fiction.
Real world Alex Casey is an FBI agent.
The power of the dark place and the similarities between fictional Casey and real Casey (same name, both investigators, both investigating a cult) made the fictional Casey's life affect real Casey's life.
That's how he got entangled in the whole story, just by coincidentally sharing the same name and line of work as the fictional character.
As for how they look and sound the same, that I'm not sure but it's probably something like The Dark Place borrowing elements from real life. In this case, borrowing the look of a person similar to the character in the story (this also explains Ilmo and Jakko being cult leaders in real life and in The Dark Place).
Didn't we the player hear Casey's voice in AW1 before Alan went to the Dark Place?

I do get what your saying and the plot thing with him.

I know why Remedy added him in the game but I still find the whole thing really not "believable".
 

LastBattle

Member
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I know Quantum Break is not part of AW/Control world but this guy was talking about having dream as different person in different world, I guess it’s more of easter egg than anything.
He also references the counter measure device from quantum break on his white board. Something about a shape, with a couple of illustrations. Can’t recall the shape he mentions, but feels like a direct reference.
 
Didn't we the player hear Casey's voice in AW1 before Alan went to the Dark Place?

I do get what your saying and the plot thing with him.

I know why Remedy added him in the game but I still find the whole thing really not "believable".
I think you're talking about Thomas Zane/The Diver. Thomas Zane in AW1 and Alex Casey in AW2 share the same voice actor. I think it doesn't really have anything to do with the plot, I guess Sam Lake just loves to work with him lol.
 
I think you're talking about Thomas Zane/The Diver. Thomas Zane in AW1 and Alex Casey in AW2 share the same voice actor. I think it doesn't really have anything to do with the plot, I guess Sam Lake just loves to work with him lol.
There were Alex Casey books in Alan's home which Alex aka Max Payne read out loud? 🤔
 
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I know Quantum Break is not part of AW/Control world but this guy was talking about having dream as different person in different world, I guess it’s more of easter egg than anything.
All the pieces are in place for Control 2 to become the sequel to Quantum Break. Tim talks about a red haired woman (Jesse) coming to save him and Mr Door is still out there referenced in all 3 ips now.
 

RickSanchez

Member
Just finished the game..............dafuq was that ending ? I didn't understand anything at all !!

Someone please explain
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Bumping this thread now that Final Draft is out, just beat it a little while ago.

Seems like it puts a nice bow on the cliffhanger way AW2 ended and also adds more credence to Door being Saga's dad without the game outright stating it.

Tor and Anderson can be seen in the very final area when Saga is in the Dark Place and talked to, they practically lay it all out "we finally buried the hatchet with Door", per their long-standing issues with the guy in the past (from the manuscripts). The new ending also kinda resolves Alan's spiral, but they completely took out the scene where Alice reveals to the viewers that she faked her suicide to help Alan.

Also, a massive new Control easter egg in a minute or two long Dr. Casper video.

Now the question is whether the 2 DLC episodes will be standalone or continue the story. For all intents, Scratch is finished for good. Is Mr. Door going to take up the antagonist role?
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Just finished the game..............dafuq was that ending ? I didn't understand anything at all !!

Someone please explain

Alan has been trying to get get out of the dark place for the last 13 years, it feels like he keeps looping back but the ending "it's not a loop, it's a spiral" means that he's actually making progress each time, if he was in a loop, he would be stuck repeating the same thing. But every time he has some new things, like Tim Breaker remembering meeting him before etc. Loop = circle over and over, Spiral = looks like circles at a glance but you're moving forward and there is an ending.

Final Draft's ending is him reaching the end of the spiral successfully.
 

Vergil1992

Member
I'm going to try to summarize what I think are key points and what I have understood about the game, sorry if I sound "strange", my English is basic-medium level, for some things I use a translator.


Door is the father of the saga, it is too implicit in the game, both by Door himself and by the Andersons. But the interesting thing is not that he is the father, what you have to ask yourself is... What or who is Door? It is clear that he is not human; In one manuscript he is practically described as a deity, something "more powerful" than Thor and Odin (who are two seers or paracapacited).

Between Control (in this game Dylan is talking about Door) and AW2, it can be understood that he is some kind of supernatural entity that has the ability to be in "all worlds at once." Probably the point here is that the Dark Place is a kind of place that "connects" parallel dimensions.


In Control, Dylan Faden says that "he was in the dark place and met a man named Door", Door can go to parallel dimensions and it seems that unlike the other characters, only one version of Door exists.


The concept of the multiverse is strongly implied here. For example, with Tom Zane there could be strong references to the Poet and the Filmmaker being fictional, but at the same time being real. In Control, Dylan says that in his dream "he saw a writer writing about a cop, but in another world, that cop was real." Do not confuse the Dark Place's ability to modify reality with creating characters: the game makes it clear that the Dark Place CANNOT create people or things from nothing. What Dylan probably means is that in one dimension, Alan Wake writes about a fictional cop, but in another dimension, that cop is real (could be a reference to Max Payne).


I mention Tom because I think he is the best example of this: in the first game "Tom the Filmmaker" does not exist. Not even Sarah Breaker knows him, he is a kind of urban legend. In the first game, Tom was a poet who had a similar story to Alan and ended up trapped in the dark place after trying to eliminate the darkness, also erasing him from existence. "Tom Zane the poet/diver" ceased to exist.

In the second game, the game's story seems to have been rewritten. We are told that Tom Zane was a filmmaker and the poet was just a role in his movie. But now Tom Zane was someone very famous and well known in Bright Falls, he had his own building, a commune of artists (almost referring to the sect) but some bases remain: his wife Barbara Jagger and he locked her up of him in the Dark place. Personally, I think Alan/Scratch or even the Dark Place is playing with multiple realities. There are some references to Tom the Poet existing:

Cynthia Weaver in one of the letters says that "she doesn't know why he is now a Filmmaker to everyone when Zane was a poet."

Jesse Faden in Control, in a recording with his psychiatrist, recites a poem by Thomas Zane. The psychiatrist accuses him of making it up, because there is no poet named Thomas Zane, but there was a filmmaker with that name in the 70s. Jesse is confused. It must be taken into account that Jesse is paracapacited and is also protected by the entity Polaris; probably, like Saga and the Andersons, she is not affected by the rewritings of history, which should be remembered that they affect the past as well.


Although less relevant, we also have the nursing home, supposedly built by Thomas Zane, one of the elderly people (Norman) says in a conversation between several characters that "he has been in Bright Falls all his life and did not remember this place." It could be another strong reference to someone rewriting history and influencing the past. We've already seen that the Dark Place can do it: it completely changes Saga's life and Logan's destiny.


I think that although it seems very complex, it really is not: Tom the poet probably existed in that dimension. In another Tom was a filmmaker and the poet/diver was a role he played.

Making an analogy, it is as Dylan says: in one world (alternate dimension/parallel universe) there is a police officer, and in another a writer writes about that police officer. I think the same thing happens with Tom. The filmmaker Tom is surely a product of the multiverse, a different version of Thomas Zane. What I can't explain is why another version of Tom has appeared: it may be the work/whim of the dark place itself, which we have already seen can open doors to other universes, or it may even be that Wake was interested in having a Tom Filmmaker (after all, a poet and a writer are essentially the same type of artist) to create a film and create an overlay to escape. Wake himself may have altered history; but I don't think he can "create" a Tom the Filmmaker, I think he has simply "lured" into the dark place a version of Thomas Zane in which he was a filmmaker.
A similar case would be Alex Casey. He is not Alan's creation, but the story created by Alan draws him to Bright Fall. Again, they make it clear to us that the dark place cannot create people. These have to exist. You can manipulate them and "use" them in your story, as if they were puppets, but you cannot invent a character. With Tom the Filmmaker I think it's the same: that Tom exists. In another universe, the Tom that existed was the interpretation of him (the events of Alan Wake 1). And I think that in this game, his story has been rewritten to conform this reality to that of Tom Zane the Filmmaker.

We could talk about how everything points to Tom being the origin, but he couldn't create Alan Wake either. I think this game is "playing" chicken and egg, but I think we'll have more answers about this in the expansions. We know the dark place can't create people, but Wake and Zane are identical. They're probably the same person, maybe in alternate universes where they've been using each other.


With Alan Wake I think something similar is going to happen; I think that in the game's universe, he is a real person, but in another, he could be a creation of Doctor Darling (Control character who also appears here) and the version of Thomas Zane the Filmmaker. I don't think it's a coincidence that Wake looks like Tom and has the voice of Darling, and that these characters seem to have some kind of escape plan. There are multiple references that Tom could be playing with Wake (before getting shot in the head he switches places with Wake several times, and Wake seemed quite disoriented as to what was happening, not to mention that the shot seems not to be affect you at all).


In short, in this game there is not only the fact that the dark place can alter reality. The multiversal concept is also very implicit, in addition to time travel. Time travel isn't exactly time travel, but we see references to it: when Saga summons Wake at the end of the game, it actually affected the past (when Wake came out near the beginning of the game), and we also know that the place dark can alter reality in the past (death of Logan), we also see that Wake, after leaving the dark place, interacted from within the dark place a version of Wake from the past with a Saga "from the future".
 
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Chuck Berry

Gold Member
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I know Quantum Break is not part of AW/Control world but this guy was talking about having dream as different person in different world, I guess it’s more of easter egg than anything.

Also his name is Tim Breaker

Time Breaker

Quantum Break
 

Vergil1992

Member
I'm almost certain that Mr Door was meant to be played by Lance Reddick originally.
Sure. In fact, the character of Door and Hatch have similarities, not only in attitude, but also in concept.

Of Door we are told that he is someone who is in "all worlds at once."

Hatch, being an "agent of change" (I think that's what they were called), has multiple versions of himself and is "everywhere and nowhere at the same time."

The description is extremely similar. It's clear that both Tim and Door are making references to their characters in QB.
 
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