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[DonkeyPunchJr]

This is what happens when people pretend Nintendo doesn't exist

You don't seriously think that Nintendo "wouldn't get a good deal" from Nvidia? When the Switch launched with a $300 price and was reportedly profitable from day 1? And Nintendo is probably going to be profitable from day 1 with the Switch 2...

Supposedly the reason Nintendo went with Nvidia was because they got a really sweet deal on Nvidia’s old + overproduced Tegra X1 chips. And it’s significantly less powerful than the consoles that launched 4 years before it.

Switch 2 will be similarly outdated when it launches, the optimistic rumors put it around PS4 Pro level when docked.

So yeah I don’t see how Switch is supposed to show that a $500 PlayStation 6 w/Nvidia would deliver more bang for the buck than a $500 PlayStation 6 w/AMD.

 

[Tams]

This is what happens when people pretend Nintendo doesn't exist

You don't seriously think that Nintendo "wouldn't get a good deal" from Nvidia? When the Switch launched with a $300 price and was reportedly profitable from day 1? And Nintendo is probably going to be profitable from day 1 with the Switch 2...

Nintendo got a good deal with Nvidia because they were willing to pay for an utter failure that Nvidia had failed to sell to pretty much anyone.

Nvidia will take any money over no money or even a loss, even if that money is very little.

As for Nintendo seeming to go with Nvidia again; they aren't asking for anything like the latest technology, so it will cost Nvidia very little to support them and Nvidia will make more from what continues to otherwise have been a dud (their ARM efforts).

 

[BattleScar]

Nintendo bought an off-the-shelf product from Nvidia for cheap.
They're not interested in cutting-edge hardware, and Nvidia isn't interested in selling their latest technology for low margins to Nintendo.

I hope this is the truth so it drives down the price of Nvidia GPUs

This type of shit is absolute horseshit. Why the fuck should AMD make good products so you can get a discount on Nvida GPUs?
This attitude is the reason Radeon has been dying for the last 10 years, and PC gamers have been getting shafted with pricing since Kepler. Absolutely braindead shit.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Nintendo bought an off-the-shelf product from Nvidia for cheap.
They're not interested in cutting-edge hardware, and Nvidia isn't interested in selling their latest technology for low margins to Nintendo.



This type of shit is absolute horseshit. Why the fuck should AMD make good products so you can get a discount on Nvida GPUs?
This attitude is the reason Radeon has been dying for the last 10 years, and PC gamers have been getting shafted with pricing since Kepler. Absolutely braindead shit.

Yes, we have been getting shafted on price and Nvidia’s operating profit is absurd. Which I why I would like AMD to get their act together to bring their prices down. No interest in buying AMD hardware personally.

 

[BattleScar]

Yes, we have been getting shafted on price and Nvidia’s operating profit is absurd. Which I why I would like AMD to get their act together to bring their prices down. No interest in buying AMD hardware personally.

If you have no interest in buying AMDs products then you can continue to get shafted.

It's not AMDs job to ensure that you can buy Nvidias products at a reasonable price.

 

[SonGoku]

This is what happens when people pretend Nintendo doesn't exist

You don't seriously think that Nintendo "wouldn't get a good deal" from Nvidia? When the Switch launched with a $300 price and was reportedly profitable from day 1? And Nintendo is probably going to be profitable from day 1 with the Switch 2...

Nintendo got an outdated chip on a outdated node which happened to be overstocked by nvidia
If Sony had gone with nvidia for PS5 the best they would get is a downgraded and downclocked RTX 2060 which is by no means better than the current GPU PS5 has.

Getting outdated tech with mature tools works for nintendo because they are not aiming for bleeding edge or at cost hardware sales. In contrast PlayStation systems always aim for the latest tech and beefiest configuration they can fit on console price points selling initially at cost or for very little profit

 

[simpatico]

So they are basically sending RDNA4 out to die.....a brutal brutal death.



Intel atlerast has marketshare so RaptorLake-R as aborted a CPU as it was could sustain them for the true nextgen chip.


RDNA4 is gonna sell peanuts......probably wont even be worth the shipping costs.
Who are AMDs major board partners for GPUs......MSI abandoned them yeah?


As much as ive been looking forward to Battlemage, ive always been apprehensive about its ability to actually keep Intel happy enough for Celestial and Druid to make it to market.
But now im looking at Celestial and seriously thinking they might have enough marketshare at that point to be a serious contender for AMD with Druid.

Intel has the money, and they've already spent a bunch. They're our only hope. How far they've come in such a short period of time is honestly pretty impressive. Keep up the same rate and it could be interesting. Anyone wanting to unseat Nvidia needs to look at HD4870 vs GTX 280 pricing and perf gaps. This is what you need to offer if we have to deal with non Nvidia drivers. $50 isn't gonna cut it, and that's about all modern AMD wants to offer us.

The Radeon HD 4850 & 4870: AMD Wins at $199 and $299

www.anandtech.com

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

If you have no interest in buying AMDs products then you can continue to get shafted.

It's not AMDs job to ensure that you can buy Nvidias products at a reasonable price.

It’s also not consumers’ job to buy an inferior product in the hopes of keeping AMD from failing out of the GPU market.

 

[BattleScar]

It’s also not consumers’ job to buy an inferior product in the hopes of keeping AMD from failing out of the GPU market.

Then keep getting shafted. AMD is not interested in offering value for money any more.

ATis offerings 10 years ago were very much competitive, but nobody bought them. The HD4870 was about 5% slower than the GTX 280 at a little over half the price, bit the 280 still outsold it.

Can't expect someone to compete if they don't have the money to compete, and then start crying when the defacto monopoly holder starts jacking up prices. And when they start jacking up prices you keep buying their shit.

The only way is to vote with your wallet and PCMR has voted. They are happy to pay whatever Nvidia charges.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Nvidia invested billions in AI which is what gave us DLSS.

Don't get me wrong I think their GPUs are expensive too but I wouldn't call it a scam.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Then keep getting shafted. AMD is not interested in offering value for money any more.

ATis offerings 10 years ago were very much competitive, but nobody bought them. The HD4870 was about 5% slower than the GTX 280 at a little over half the price, bit the 280 still outsold it.

Can't expect someone to compete if they don't have the money to compete, and then start crying when the defacto monopoly holder starts jacking up prices. And when they start jacking up prices you keep buying their shit.

The only way is to vote with your wallet and PCMR has voted. They are happy to pay whatever Nvidia charges.

What do you suggest? Pity buying?

 

[BattleScar]

What do you suggest? Pity buying?

I suggest you either stop whining about a problem you have no honest intention of trying to resolve, or stop upgrading your PC.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I suggest you either stop whining about a problem you have no honest intention of trying to resolve, or stop upgrading your PC.

Resolve? That's on AMD. It's their job to sell compelling products. Should we buy three x boxes each because they're lagging so far behind Sony?

 

[MikeM]

This is why I never update my drivers for my 7900xt unless im having issues.
23.11.1 here and no issues with anything I play.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I suggest you either stop whining about a problem you have no honest intention of trying to resolve, or stop upgrading your PC.

I bought 20 years of ATI/AMD. From ATI mach series (2D) to R9 280. From 1996 to 2016, where I switched to Pascal's 1060.

I think I did my service

I stopped when their attitude was that of a loser.

"Oh! Bad nvidia! They have too much tesselation! The tech we invented in ourselves in 2004, Nvidia beat us to it in performance. We can fix it by a driver, as our fans showed within 48h of a driver hack and we can stop complaining, but noooo, let's continue trying to leverage this as the Nvidia evil spin".

"We worked with CD Project red since the start of Witcher 3, but only offered them to go with TressFX 2 months prior to launch because Nvidia, which showcased their tech almost 18 months prior at SIGGRAPH, totally cut the grass underneath us! Wait, we knew 2 months head of launch that they would use Nvidia's hair, can we fix the drivers? Naw let's not. A fan will fix it in a few days"

Project cars, AMD attacked the devs of sabotaging performances in favour of Nvidia and when the dev replied with the receipts, it ends up being that AMD drivers were the problem and they fixed it.

They're losers. The management and PR over there is a disaster and a shadow of what ATI was.

When AMD comes back swinging with disruptive tech and stop being the victim, I'll look into it again. And cut this team red crap, I feel like its a cult, like a MAGA cult. There's no teams for GPU buying ffs. Cringe as fuck.

 

[BattleScar]

I bought 20 years of ATI/AMD. From ATI mach series (2D) to R9 280. From 1996 to 2016, where I switched to Pascal's 1060.

I think I did my service

Good for you. Unfortunately the rest of the market didn't. So here we are.

When AMD comes back swinging with disruptive tech and stop being the victim, I'll look into it again. And cut this team red crap, I feel like its a cult, like a MAGA cult. There's no teams for GPU buying ffs. Cringe as fuck.

Nothing to do with being Team Red or Green. I've run GeForce as often as I've run Radeon in my systems. The issue is demanding that AMD, or fuck it, even Intel offer a competitive or disruptive product so that you can buy Nvidias offering at a discount.

Doing that is a complete waste of time, and is what will continue to perpetuate the lop-sided market.

If you see a good value for money product, buy the good value for money product. You can't expect competition to equilibrate GPU pricing if only one company is getting all of the money. How exactly do you expect competitors to compete if there's no profit in being competitive?

Edit:
To be clear, I'm not suggesting that you in particular are guilty of doing this. It's just the point that I've been trying to hammer home in broad strokes.

Asking AMD to compete better and then waiting for Nvidia to drop their prices and buying their offerings at a discount, serves no purpose beyond removing any incentive for competition to exist within the market.

But none of us will have to worry about that any more. Because based on what I know of AMDs shareholder interactions, if AMD ever do offer a truly competitive or disruptive product, it's going to be more expensive than Nvidia. Cause clearly undercutting hasn't worked out.

 

[hlm666]

This attitude is the reason Radeon has been dying for the last 10 years

Some part of it has to be attributed to AMD, we are in here talking about rdna5 when rdna4 isn't even released (or have a release date even). If someone was waiting for rdna4 they are basically being told wait for rdna5 because we had to rebuild from the ground to fix rdna4. I'm not sure that's how you go about increasing market share, but I guess we will see how this plays out eventually.

 

[RagnarokIV]

Intel has the money, and they've already spent a bunch. They're our only hope. How far they've come in such a short period of time is honestly pretty impressive. Keep up the same rate and it could be interesting. Anyone wanting to unseat Nvidia needs to look at HD4870 vs GTX 280 pricing and perf gaps. This is what you need to offer if we have to deal with non Nvidia drivers. $50 isn't gonna cut it, and that's about all modern AMD wants to offer us.

The Radeon HD 4850 & 4870: AMD Wins at $199 and $299

www.anandtech.com

That's a blast from the past! The HD4850 was my last Radeon card, it was awesome.

I went with nvidia after that for future cards and never had another Radeon until recently when I got a 7900 XTX.

 

[BattleScar]

Some part of it has to be attributed to AMD, we are in here talking about rdna5 when rdna4 isn't even released (or have a release date even). If someone was waiting for rdna4 they are basically being told wait for rdna5 because we had to rebuild from the ground to fix rdna4. I'm not sure that's how you go about increasing market share, but I guess we will see how this plays out eventually.

2 things:

1) We are dealing with rumours and speculation, which AMD have not and will not publicly comment on.
2) RDNA4 isn't being fixed in RDNA5. They are two completely different architectures. RDNA4 allegedly had high end offerings that got cancelled. Why? Who knows, who cares. Leaks suggest that it's because they didn't have time to validate MCM designs and chose to instead allocate those resources to bring forward RDNA5.

Ultimately they don't care if they don't gain market share with RDNA4. They make way more money on Epyc and Radeon Instinct offerings to enterprise consumers.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Nothing to do with being Team Red or Green. I've run GeForce as often as I've run Radeon in my systems. The issue is demanding that AMD, or fuck it, even Intel offer a competitive or disruptive product so that you can buy Nvidias offering at a discount.

But peoples like BennyBlanco would probably think twice if the product is disruptive. I don't believe in blind affiliation, peoples are making decisions on a number of factors and I doubt anyone on this forum would say, I would still buy Nvidia even if AMD completely trounces Nvidia.

It's just that as of now, the offer of -$50 to $100 for 2% rasterization advantage but at the cost of software suite, upscaling, RT, professional, etc, is clearly not good enough for most peoples.

It got close in the past

The problem now is those were mainly days where hardware was king. Now software is king and AMD let Nvidia too long of a head start.

They have a lot more work to be disruptive now, hardware alone won't cut it.

 

[BattleScar]

But peoples like BennyBlanco would probably think twice if the product is disruptive. I don't believe in blind affiliation, peoples are making decisions on a number of factors and I doubt anyone on this forum would say, I would still buy Nvidia even if AMD completely trounces Nvidia.

It's just that as of now, the offer of -$50 to $100 for 2% rasterization advantage but at the cost of software suite, upscaling, RT, professional, etc, is clearly not good enough for most peoples.

It got close in the past

The problem now is those were mainly days where hardware was king. Now software is king and AMD let Nvidia too long of a head start.

They have a lot more work to be disruptive now, hardware alone won't cut it.

That graph kind of proves the point though. Consider that during Fermi, one of Nvidias worst ever architectural disasters, they still retained a higher market share than ATi, with higher ASPs you can see the money is flowing pretty much in one direction. And all that means is that one player has more money to shunt into R&D.

GPU is the only space where the cheap "Value" brand has smaller market share than the expensive "premium brand".

It's like if Rolls Royce sold more cars than Toyota, and then asking why Toyota don't make cars competitive with Rolls Royce. Where are they gonna get the money from?

But this is all besides the point.
The only thing I'm really talking about is the attitude people have of wanting competition so that Nvidia lower prices. That won't change anything.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Then keep getting shafted. AMD is not interested in offering value for money any more.

ATis offerings 10 years ago were very much competitive, but nobody bought them. The HD4870 was about 5% slower than the GTX 280 at a little over half the price, bit the 280 still outsold it.

Can't expect someone to compete if they don't have the money to compete, and then start crying when the defacto monopoly holder starts jacking up prices. And when they start jacking up prices you keep buying their shit.

The only way is to vote with your wallet and PCMR has voted. They are happy to pay whatever Nvidia charges.

I bought a HD4870 (and a 3870X2, and a 5870, and few others).

I will buy AMD again if & when they have a better product for the money. I’m not going to buy an inferior product just for the sake of trying to keep AMD’s GPU division going. If you want to make a charitable donation to AMD then go for it, but don’t expect that others will do the same if you whine and cry enough about it.

And BTW I switched to Nvidia with the GTX 570. The main reason wasn’t even perf/$, it was because the last 3 Radeon cards I owned all had driver/stability/heat issues and were loud as hell. I gave them one more shot with Radeon VII and that was the worst graphics card I’ve ever owned. It sounded like a 747 taking off whenever it was under load (I sold it during the pandemic for more than double what I paid for it though, so that definitely eased the pain).

 

[Kazekage1981]

I think AMD will focus on entry level gaming with RDNA 4 based APU's. The only issue is RAM bandwidth with DDR5 RAM. They are trying to throw a big fish net to capture casual gamers, productivity consumers at same time. I think it's a good business decision. I do want a desktop and a laptop that can game 1440p+ resolution, high fidelity mode, HDR, 120fps, full ray tracing, Wifi7, 5G on laptop, USB 4.0 Version 2, decent battery life without overheating. If I want more juice, i can connect iGPU via USB 4.0.

AMD not only has team green (NVIDIA) and team blue (Intel) to worry about now, they have team purple (Qualcomm) to worry about too.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Then keep getting shafted. AMD is not interested in offering value for money any more.

ATis offerings 10 years ago were very much competitive, but nobody bought them. The HD4870 was about 5% slower than the GTX 280 at a little over half the price, bit the 280 still outsold it.

Can't expect someone to compete if they don't have the money to compete, and then start crying when the defacto monopoly holder starts jacking up prices. And when they start jacking up prices you keep buying their shit.

The only way is to vote with your wallet and PCMR has voted. They are happy to pay whatever Nvidia charges.

I'm sorry that people buy products they like and like the products they buy

You should start a crusade against Apple next

 

[BattleScar]

I'm sorry that people buy products they like and like the products they buy

You should start a crusade against Apple next

If they're ok with prices continuing to go up, then people can buy whatever they want.

 

[simpatico]

That's a blast from the past! The HD4850 was my last Radeon card, it was awesome.

I went with nvidia after that for future cards and never had another Radeon until recently when I got a 7900 XTX.

Same, only I still haven’t gone back. I’m considering it. If I get can 7900 GRE perf for $300-$350, it would be worth the shitty drivers. But just saving $50?, not quite there yet for my appetite

 

[SoloCamo]

It’s also not consumers’ job to buy an inferior product in the hopes of keeping AMD from failing out of the GPU market.

When it comes to Inferior it is entirely up to the buyer to determine that. None of the Radeon GPU's I've purchased have been inferior to their competing product when it comes to... vram (how are those 8gb/10gb cards holding up gents?), cheaper price points, lower driver overhead (cpu doesn't need to be as beefy to get the most out of the gpu), having agnostic software helping the industry (freesync, fsr, etc.)..

The same rational can apply to any purchase, you buy what you find is the best products that matches your needs at the price point you want to pay.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

When it comes to Inferior it is entirely up to the buyer to determine that. None of the Radeon GPU's I've purchased have been inferior to their competing product when it comes to... vram (how are those 8gb/10gb cards holding up gents?), cheaper price points, lower driver overhead (cpu doesn't need to be as beefy to get the most out of the gpu), having agnostic software helping the industry (freesync, fsr, etc.)..

The same rational can apply to any purchase, you buy what you find is the best products that matches your needs at the price point you want to pay.

If you bought AMD because you judged it to be the more attractive product for your use case at your price range, then hey that’s great, that’s what you’re supposed to do.

If you bought AMD because some fanboy told you that it’s your duty to support the underdog rain or shine, or else you’re Nvidia’s bitch and you deserve it, well then you’re an idiot.

 

[SoloCamo]

If you bought AMD because some fanboy told you that it’s your duty to support the underdog rain or shine, or else you’re Nvidia’s bitch and you deserve it, well then you’re an idiot.

Which is fair. The problem is the shear amount of people that only buy Nvidia because 'AMD sucks'. I've been on dedicated PC forums since the early 2000's and still use overclock.net and extremehw.net and the shear amount of times that people stick to Nvidia because of non sense reasons gets really tiresome. So many people over the years have bought inferior products because the majority of people only know Nvidia and refuse to look elsewhere. It's a lose lose for AMD, even if they turned around tomorrow and blew the 4090 out of existence in EVERY feature at the cost of $500 Nvidia would still sell more.