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[ziran]

hardware issues aside, I think the most important thing nintendo has realised with gamecube is the success of a nintendo hardware platform is wholey dependent on the quality of nintendo's internally developed software.

at the beginning of this generation nintendo was under the impression it could reduce the length of development and size of team [and ultimately the quality], of its games, for more [shorter] titles.

Games Radar Dec 2001

But NGC can reveal that Zelda is just one part of a bold new Nintendo strategy - a strategy that will see the company move towards creating much shorter, simpler games than the likes of Ocarina of Time. The days of grand Nintendo epics, years in development and overflowing with 60-or-so hours of play, are over.

"Nintendo is concerned that some of their biggest games are only accessible to a small audience," a source close to the company told us. "Take Ocarina of Time. Years of effort went into creating a huge, sprawling title that took weeks to complete - but how many people, aside from the real Nintendo fans, actually saw all of it? The majority of Zelda owners never got to the end. Essentially, all that hard work was wasted on them."

So Nintendo has a new plan. Smaller ideas, smaller budgets, smaller teams, and smaller games. Instead of investing years and millions upon millions of yen on a game only a small proportion of Gamecube owners - the so-called 'hardcore' - will fully appreciate, Miyamoto and co will concentrate on creating shorter, more accessible titles that everyone can enjoy to the full.

Expect more brief but fun titles like Pikmin. Zelda's new look reflects this new approach in two ways. The simple visuals are quick and relatively easy for Miyamoto's team to create, helping them knock out the game in two years rather than four. But, crucially, that cartoony look should appeal to a much wider cross-section of Gamecube owners, unlike Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask's D&D-style fantasy world. Children - Nintendo's most profitable customer base - especially.

Miyamoto even said he hoped to be able to deliver a sequel to pikmin in a matter of months.

nintendo stuck to this theory and it was the thing that caused them the biggest trouble, imo. luigi's mansion, waverace bs, pikmin, mario sunshine, zelda wind waker, kirby air ride, 1080, etc weren't bad games, but they weren't good enough to separate gamecube from the competition and they weren't up to nintendo's previous stellar efforts.

smash bros, while brilliant was only one title and a 'kiddie' one at that, and metroid prime [so far the best game this gen imo] had an unconventional control system, alienating the majority of fps fans. in other words in the first half of its life the reason to buy a gc just wasn't there for the majority of gamers.

personally, i'm happy nintendo has gone through this trial by fire, and now understands it can create short fun titles like warioware twisted and nintendogs that can be played by anyone, but it also has to deliver epic content for existing gamers like metroid prime, fire emblem and twilight princess AND they all have to be brilliant.

3rd party support is also important, without doubt, but it has to be the right kind. i think revolution will see less overall 3rd party support, but more exclusives [than gc], which will be more profitable for all.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Nintendo, the videogames developer

Thanks, I get really angry when I come into topics expecting Nintendo, the TV chef.

 

[Jacobi]

If the games really'd be smaller and less expensive, we Europeans would still have to pay 50 Euros for one

 

[Gattsu25]

Jacobi brings up an interesting issue...are the games going to cost the same and if so, how aggresively do you expect certain people to spin this into Nintendo not taking advantage of their fanbase?

 

[Bigfonzie]

RIP Nintendo.

You had a good past, but now your greed and blindness will be your end.

 

[ziran]

^^^

you realise i'm quoting an article from 2001 right?

i'm comparing it with nintendo's change to making oot surpassing epics for the hardcore, like twilight princess, as stated by aonuma in his recent interviews.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

if they are serious, they'll scale back software retail prices accordingly. Sony did it with non-AAA 1st/2nd party titles.

 

[Gattsu25]

^^^

you realise i'm quoting an article from 2001 right?

i'm comparing it with nintendo's change to making oot surpassing epics for the hardcore, like twilight princess.

Oh I realize that. Nintendo PR hasn't exactly changed it's stance in this regard IMO.
Games like Twilight Princess and (please) Fire Emblem continue to be larger epics, but are they the exception instead of the rule

 

[Sho Nuff]

They learned that people will love WHATEVER they ship.

 

[Redbeard]

Why do you think they've learned anything? Everything appears to be exactly the same to me.

Even recently Miyamoto has been knocking games he feels are too long and saying he wants developers to make more unique products instead of epic games.

 

[Ruzbeh]

RIP Nintendo.

Just stop. It's not funny anymore.

 

[ThongyDonk]

RIP Nintendo.

You had a good past, but now your greed and blindness will be your end.

And your logic in this is?
£Billions in the bank will take a long time to burn away and a complete stop in the intake of money!

 

[SantaC]

They learned that people will love WHATEVER they ship.

I put that down as sarcasm.

 

[ziran]

Why do you think they've learned anything? Everything appears to be exactly the same to me.

Even recently Miyamoto has been knocking games he feels are too long and saying he wants developers to make more unique products instead of epic games.

 

[Bigfonzie]

I retract my statement. Nintendo can live.

 

[ge-man]

The stratgey wouldn't have been so bad if they had made good on the second part--pumping out more games. I doubt that many of us would be so disappointed with this PR if we were getting a flood of software from Nintendo as a part of deal. The fact that Nintendo put out something like a Luigi's Mansion is less disappointing than the fact that we still ended up with droughts. Size isn't really that big of an issue for most I suspect.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

They seem a little confused about this aspect. I think that's why their handheld program is so much better than their console offerings. They get along better with 3rd parties there too.

 

[evilromero]

Yeah, at least Nintendo could've given us an Excitebike 64 sequel. Shit, it could've been another quick NST project. Somewhere between Wave Race and 1080.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

it must be Monday...

 

[Timen]

I don't even HAVE 40+ hours to play my games, keep it at a decent 15 to 20 hours and i'll be MORE than satisfied

Resident evil -> 19 hours
Wind waker -> 20 hours
Pikmin 2 -> 25 hours
Metroid Prime -> 20 hours

all on the first play-trough, and I'm just the average gamer.

 

[Redbeard]

And they had Starfox on the Cube early on, so what? It's evident from what the higher-ups have been saying consistently for the past four years that their stance hasn't changed, only their willingness to concede to the wishes of their fans on one occasion.

 

[SantaC]

And they had Starfox on the Cube early on, so what? It's evident from what the higher-ups have been saying consistently for the past four years that their stance hasn't changed, only their willingness to concede to the wishes of their fans on one occasion.

one occasion? I can count to several long games from Nintendo this gen. (that takes 15 hours + for a first time playthrough)

Paper Mario 2
Fire Emblem
Zelda Wind Waker
Zelda : TP
Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime 2

 

[Redbeard]

one occasion? I can count to several long games from Nintendo this gen. (that takes 15 hours + for a first time playthrough)

Paper Mario 2
Fire Emblem
Zelda Wind Waker
Zelda : TP
Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime 2

I was referring to the other post, with the dude showing a picture of Zelda to try and prove Nintendo has learned something. All they've done with Zelda is give the fans what they want.

As you point out they aren't making any more or less 'epic' games now than they were before, which is what I was trying to say, that their philosophy and priorities haven't changed.

 

[ge-man]

They seem a little confused about this aspect. I think that's why their handheld program is so much better than their console offerings. They get along better with 3rd parties there too.

I think the harsh reality is that what they wanted to do was too tough, if not impossible with their console games because of the way NCL was organized this generation. They recently went through some re-organization of their development teams, so maybe it will be different next generation. But even then that's questionable because within the GC's life span they added another platform--I'm not sure if their teams have grown large enough in the mean time to support three platforms in a way that will be satisfying.

 

[spliced]

Maybe it's the translation, or maybe I'm just wrong, but when Miyamoto talks I often feel like he just answers questions in the moment and doesn't always have a big PR speech ready to shoot out his mouth. So he ends up saying these things that don't really hold up when examined later, like Pikmin 2 in 6 months.

 

[ziran]

I was referring to the other post, with the dude showing a picture of Zelda to try and prove Nintendo has learned something. All they've done with Zelda is give the fans what they want.

As you point out they aren't making any more or less 'epic' games now than they were before, which is what I was trying to say, that their philosophy and priorities haven't changed.

i think nintendo giving its fans what they want is a huge thing! it points to them delivering for the hardcore gamer, with possible new hardcore franchises from internal japanese teams, a new rpg from intelligent systems/brownie brown/genius sonority, a new mother game from shigesato itoi and hal and a full scale pokemon rpg - online, all for revolution.

nintendo has dropped a strategy, shown above, which wasn't just about a game's length, rather one that resulted in less time spent and less people working on games. nintendo churned out the titles in the first half of gc's life, and it didn't work.

recently there has been a definite improvement in the quality of games released, and length of time spent in development, and an increase in size of every team.

nintendo has returned to releasing a game when it's ready, something they lost when using this [smaller, quicker, cheaper] way of development. recent nintendo titles like nintendogs, warioware twisted, fire emblem and paper mario 2 are all polished, brilliant games that enhance the nintendo brand rather than tarnish it. the up coming zelda, and the recent interviews with aonuma, are further proof nintendo is making more of an effort to attract gamers, and keep the hardcore fans happy.

 

[Redbeard]

nintendo has dropped a strategy, shown above, which wasn't just about a game's length, rather one that resulted in less time spent and less people working on games. nintendo churned out the titles in the first half of gc's life, and it didn't work.

recently there has been a definite improvement in the quality of games released, and length of time spent in development, and an increase in size of every team.

How exactly do you know how long their games are in development for and how many people are working on them?

The reason they aren't churning out titles for the GC now is because they have to churn them out for the DS.

 

[SantaC]

How exactly do you know how long their games are in development for and how many people are working on them?

The reason they aren't churning out titles for the GC now is because they have to churn them out for the DS.

if you haven't noticed they started delaying several games so they could polish it more. Pikmin 2 is a good example of this. Latley they have delayed Geist and Nintendo baselball or whatever several times.

 

[ziran]

How exactly do you know how long their games are in development for and how many people are working on them?

The reason they aren't churning out titles for the GC now is because they have to churn them out for the DS.

pikmin 2 delay

September 4, 2003 - Earlier this week we reported that Pikmin 2, the sequel to Nintendo's hit simulation title Pikmin, could be delayed into next year. Today Nintendo confirmed reports. The game is now officially set for a Q2 2004 release date.
"The launch date for Pikmin 2 has moved to Q2 2004 to ensure the final product meets the high standards that Nintendo fans deserve," stated Nintendo.

fire emblem gc, paper mario 2 and many upcoming titles were/have been delayed.

nintendo has openly stated it has been expanding internal development teams for a long time.

Nintendo is preparing to take significant measures to improve its position in the video game industry. Plans include expanding internal development capacity, forming new second party relationships, and investing a portion of the company's $6 billion cash holdings into the development of next-generation hardware.

nintendo has added ead tokyo, retro studios, brownie brown and genius sonority to internal teams, and continues to expand its development staff [retro studios has been recruiting recently].

i can see you disagree with me, but nonetheless i believe nintendo has changed its development strategy [more than not] back to taking the time to deliver the best games it can.

 

[Ranger X]

it must be Monday...

Monday the 13th on top of that...

 

[Ruzbeh]

Monday the 13th on top of that...

Believe?

 

[Link316]

fire emblem gc, paper mario 2 and many upcoming titles were/have been delayed.

you're acting like this is something new when it comes to Nintendo, delays were a common occurence on the N64, I also suspect their "delays" have more to do with spacing out the release schedule rather than cause of development issues

 

[GaimeGuy]

The first games we got after Nintendo started talking about simplicity were Wario Ware, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, Kirby Air Ride, and Pac Man Vs. Most Nintendo games never were more than 30 hours in the first place, so it's not like they were suddenly changing philosophies. They were, and still are, just talking about it more.