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[Tomeru]

People that defend Apple think this whole thing is about why Apple does what it does, when actually it's about how these companies do business.

Not why.

How.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

In other words you are bright enough to justify pretty much anything coming from Apple, and that T&C bit, that is so laughably irrelevant in this case, was just a lame excuse.
Now "it's a war" so any shit is justified.
Amusing.

Look, if you don't like the way Apple does business, then don't do business with them. Epic signed a contract and then deliberately broke it, hoping that it generates free publicity. But all it did was biting off more than Epic could chew. Epic had a marketing video ready for the backlash, but they were not ready for what happened AFTER. That is on them.

Epic dared Apple to react. Apple responded. No more and no less.

i don't use any Apple products, by choice. Epic could have done the same, but they decided to pull a publicity stunt instead. The fallout is all their own making.

If i punch a mob boss in the face, i wouldn't expect to get away with it even if that mob boss deserved to be punched. Apple is not innocent but they don't have to be; this is not about morality but contractual agreements. There is no morality in contracts.

 

[brian0057]

In this thread in particular, when we have Apple taking revenge and having collateral damage of countless small guys, who's only guilt is having used Unreal Engine.

Oh geez.
Maybe Epic and their prepared campaign that went live the minute Apple retaliated should've thought of that before trying to strong arm them into doing their bidding.

 

[BWJinxing]

That would 100% not be the case.

A: Secure payments are hardly expensive to develop, maybe 1% of a 30% cut is going on the infrastructure to enable the purchase.

B: If a big store didn't do everything in their power to protect their customers details they would be fined millions.

C: If they lost customer confidence they would lose the majority of their customer base over night.

Just because a website / store offers secure payments, doesn't make it secure. You could easily slap on a secure sticker to inspire confidence.

My friend runs a business, her card is used physically and online, it's chip and pin enforced as she is Canadian, but gets skimmed at minimum, twice a year.

Personally, if it's not using PayPal or GPay, I'm not trusting that "secure checkout" page. I even use PayPal on steam.

I've only had my cc stolen once. My personal debt card, remains ( hopefully) untouched.

 

[phil_t98]

Ah sorry I was talking about the 30% cut been lowered rather than loads of different payment systems.

I agree but I guess also that's what reviews are for, number of downloads listed and the report function etc. Dosnt seem like a perfect solution but buying off Ebay is much the same in that you have to trust the seller and if not your covered by the policies of the platform holder.

Still seems strange Epic have taken a beef with mobile phone platforms first. Both Sony and Microsoft take 30% as well, but I guess that would interfere with their other business interests too much.

Yeah but the funny thing with it is Epic adjusted the prices so they can still make the same money.

When they did direct payment as well they charged 7.99 so they actually increased their earnings when they cut apple out. Consumers would save 20% not the full 30% they complaining about. Raised their price stealthy with combating apple and google.

As i said in previous posts the 30% charge is also to gain access to the user base of android and iOS which is a hell of a lot.they were happy to pay the price and now they got a mega hit game they think they can alter the original deal they signed

 

[Hostile_18]

Yeah but the funny thing with it is Epic adjusted the prices so they can still make the same money.

When they did direct payment as well they charged 7.99 so they actually increased their earnings when they cut apple out. Consumers would save 20% not the full 30% they complaining about. Raised their price stealthy with combating apple and google.

As i said in previous posts the 30% charge is also to gain access to the user base of android and iOS which is a hell of a lot.they were happy to pay the price and now they got a mega hit game they think they can alter the original deal they signed

Oh don't get me wrong I think Epic is in the wrong here. It would have massive implications going forward if they win (which is unlikely).

 

[supernova8]

Basically a bunch of greedy bastards arguing with another bunch of greedy bastards.

The thing is that Apple:

- isn't Valve with practically zero mainstream PR presence
- most likely has far more cash in the bank that Valve and Epic combined, multiplied by 10
- probably has a far better legal team than Epic has
- has a much bigger marketing budget than Epic could ever afford - great for turning people away from Epic, their games and their tools
- doesn't need Fortnite or any other Epic-produced games on their phone to maintain sales
- controls iOS with an iron grip, it's not a semi-open platform like Windows

Not really sure how Epic thinks it's going to win this one.

 

[phil_t98]

Basically a bunch of greedy bastards arguing with another bunch of greedy bastards.

The thing is that Apple:

- isn't Valve with practically zero mainstream PR presence
- most likely has far more cash in the bank that Valve and Epic combined, multiplied by 10
- probably has a far better legal team than Epic has
- has a much bigger marketing budget than Epic could ever afford - great for turning people away from Epic, their games and their tools
- doesn't need Fortnite or any other Epic-produced games on their phone to maintain sales
- controls iOS with an iron grip, it's not a semi-open platform like Windows

Not really sure how Epic thinks it's going to win this one.

its also google as well. not just apple epic are trying to sue.

 

[llien]

should've thought of that before

No, maybe "we" thought a decent human being could not stretch own ass to sit on both "it's violating T&C" and "oh, no, this time nothing is violating, but war", but maybe my concept of a decent human being is too old school.

signed a contract

Oh, we are back to "signed a contract" now.
How lovely.
So why all the small guys are pummeled by Apple now, remind me please...

I was told arguing with an octopus would feel along these lines. After briefly switching focus it would forget what was in his uber brains the moment before.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

No, maybe "we" thought a decent human being could not stretch own ass to sit on both "it's violating T&C" and "oh, no, this time nothing is violating, but war", but maybe my concept of a decent human being is too old school.


Oh, we are back to "signed a contract" now.
How lovely.
So why all the small guys are pummeled by Apple now, remind me please...

I was told arguing with an octopus would feel along these lines. After briefly switching focus it would forget what was in his uber brains the moment before.

Whenever your argument runs out of steam, you go back to demanding people "stop defending Apple" when they aren't , so if anyone needs to cut out the circular argument, it is yourself.

 

[llien]

Whenever your argument runs out of steam, you go back to demanding people "stop defending Apple" when they aren't , so if anyone needs to cut out the circular argument, it is yourself.

I suspect asking to highlight the "stop defending apple" part in the text you've just cited is a bit too much for a nuanced person like you.

So, let me put it straight: fuck off with putting words into my mouth, dumbo.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I suspect asking to highlight the "stop defending apple" part in the text you've just cited is a bit too much for a nuanced person like you.

So, let me put it straight: fuck off with putting words into my mouth, dumbo.

lol fine, if you insist I'll let you do the talking:

I was told arguing with an octopus would feel along these lines. After briefly switching focus it would forget what was in his uber brains the moment before.

In other words you are bright enough to justify pretty much anything coming from Apple

Indeed, of all the "buh mah tirms and condishas" yours was exceptional: you've added "white anti-apple fragility" into perspective.
Brilliant.

How many times this dumbfuck argument would be repeated?
The argument at hand is that Apple's T&C suck and are unacceptable.
"But but if someone is strongarmed into signing it" is not an answer to that.

Apple's shitty practices are bad for this planet.
[snip]
I don't care if it is legal or not.
It does not matter if it is legal or not.
The Standard Oil Company was legal too, until it stopped being legal.

Imagine Microsoft banning someone from Windows.
This is what just happened.

And it is one of the biggest corporate assholes on the planet, with the most outrageous business practices, from that 30% that is not refunded, if customer gets money back, to that "brilliant" idea of having a cut of the subscription fee (innovated by Jobs himself, no less).

It's depressing to read shit like this on a gaming forum.

#youareholdingitwrong

And you suck, frankly.

You seem really, really upset that people are poking and laughing at EPIC.

 

[reinking]

 

[Dane]

He has a point on at least keeping licensers out of it. But still, here comes the trouble.

INB4: I wonder why Epic doesn't sue Microsoft, Nintendo or Sony eh?

 

[PresetError]

Now wait and see how for some people Apple becomes the villain again.

 

[Flying Toaster]

Honestly Epic should have different Apple development licenses to separate the games division from the Unreal engine division. As far as I can see it Epic screwed up by going nuclear and breaking TOS under one account.

It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

What a dumbass. Do not side with Epic, they will come for you next.

If Xbox can't get a cut from software then they might as well stop the Xbox ecosystem. Same for Sony and Nintendo.

It would be devastating for the gaming industry and the thousands of developers and artists working on games.

 

[Dane]

What a dumbass. Do not side with Epic, they will come for you next.

If Xbox can't get a cut from software then they might as well stop the Xbox ecosystem. Same for Sony and Nintendo.

It would be devastating for the gaming industry and the thousands of developers and artists working on games.

Ask yourself, why Epic didn't come after Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft?

Because Apple and Google doesn't license unreal engine or barely do, in other words, if they did sue the three above, they would have been facing their own clients.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

Ask yourself, why Epic didn't come after Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft?

Because Apple and Google doesn't license unreal engine or barely do, in other words, if they did sue the three above, they would have been facing their own clients.

That's right but if Epic wins against Apple then nothing stops someone else (Uplay, Origin) to come for Microsoft or Sony for the same reasons.

Or worst, if the rules are changed and they can't have a closed ecosystem then their business is done. It's not worth it.