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[The Shadow]

I started a thread earlier this year (May? June?) about building a new PC. Quite a number of you suggested I wait because of PCI Express boards and what not. FU! I loaned out my PC upgrade money thinking it'd be a good way to prevent me from blowing it too soon and now I finally got it back. GUESS WHAT PCI EXPRESS AIN'T HERE YET FUCKERS

Anyway, Doom 3 is out and Half-Life 2 should be out soon. I need to upgrade. This is a general idea of what I'm going to build.

CPU:
AMD Athlon 3500+ socket 939

Mobo:
Asus A8V DELUXE VIA K8T800 Pro Chipset

Video:
Currently Undecided. I may wait until some Half-Life 2 retail benches are out which means I'd be waiting for another couple of weeks. Maybe anyway

Mem:
1GB (I know how much, undecided on brand or anything else)

HDD:
~40gb 10k rpm HDD (Any drive will do. Probably go with Seagate though)

Everything else I'll probably just transfer over. I have an Audigy 2, a Samsung DVD-ROM, and a NEC DVD-/+RW drive that'll go into the new PC.

As you can see, most if not all of this is pretty much undecided yet. I'd really like to get an Athlon 64 of some kind though. The 40gb 10k may have to be SATA because I have two 120gb PATA drives I'd like to transfer over along with the two DVD drives. That's five drives total when most motherboards only support 4 PATA devices.

Any help is greatly appreciated unless it's really, really stupid advice.

 

[rc213]

1gb of Corsair XMS PC3200 or Mushkin PC3200 Special 2-2-2.

I had a 9800 Pro and it still runs great but i picked up a x800 Pro and it's amazing. Boost in fps w/ higher resolution is nice. I dont think u can go wrong with 6800GT/x800 Pro.

 

[Biff Hardbody]

Radeon drivers made my asus a8v 939 board shut down whenever I played a game. Supposedly the new hyperion drivers fix this, but they did not for me. Get an asus board ONLY if you plan on going with an nvidia card.

abit 939 boards have issues with Antec psu's. Maybe other brands as well.

I got crucial ballistix ram, its very good with the A64 supposedly.

Get a bigger HD, man. They are fun to have.

 

[The Shadow]

I had a 9800 Pro and it still runs great but i picked up a x800 Pro and it's amazing. Boost in fps w/ higher resolution is nice. I dont think u can go wrong with 6800GT/x800 Pro.

Yeah. I'm not too worried about the video card at this point. It'll probably be a matter of what's in stock more than anything else.

Get a bigger HD, man. They are fun to have.

The 40gb will only be the "system" HDD. I'll be transfering two 120gb harddrives from my current PC over as well.

What's up with the Asus? Is it a known problem with ATi cards and Detonator drivers? I don't absolutely have to get the Asus, it was just the first 939 I saw at newegg when I did a quick search. There are other brands too like MSI but I personally haven't had too much luck with them. I don't really want to spend 200+ on a motherboard though, which some of the 939 socket boards seem to be. There's a huge gap in prices it seems.

 

[Biff Hardbody]

All I can tell you is my experience with the asus, and the thing literally shut down every time I booted up a game with my Radeon 9800. It's the via chipset of the asus board that has conflicts with radeon drivers. I would recommend a different board. The gigabyte has good reviews, as does the MSI (although I have heard they are a shoddy manufacturer). If I was buying a new 939 board, I'd go for the gigabyte or the msi.

 

[Poody]

I'm planning up ugradein to to the athlon 64 939 chipset too. I just have a question. What do you guys do with your old computers and old parts?

Go check out anandtech shadow.. the MSI board beat everything else.

 

[rc213]

Sounds more like a problem between VIA's Hyperion drivers and ATi's Catalyst drivers.

 

[The Shadow]

Ok. So far it looks like this then:

CPU: AMD Athlon 3500+ socket 939 (no opinions/alternate options on this?)

Mobo: MSI "K8T NEO2-FIR" VIA K8T800 Pro Chipset (It's actually cheaper than the Asus. Nice)

Mem: 1gb Crucial Balistix or Corsair XMS PC3200

HDD: Seagate 36.7gb 10k RPM

Video: Still undecided

How's that look? Also, can someone recommend how to build a quieter PC? Is it just about buying "quiet" versions of regular PC stuff like fans and PSUs or is it more involved? Would I have to buy a new case or could I just refit my current one?

Biff:

Are you sure it's all Asus or Via chipsets and ATi drivers or just that particular one? It could be just a strange incompatibility with just that one board.

I bought a Biostar motherboard last year and couldn't get any mpeg-4 video to play without skipping like crazy. Nothing else was wrong with the system mind you. I tried just about every trick in the book to fix it, posted at anandtech and here about it, etc. No one could offer a solution that could fix it and I doubt they could, I had already tried just about everything.

I was ready to swear off the Via chipset for good but tried to get an exchange at newegg at the last minute. The cheapest alternate board was the same exact via chipset but a different manufacturer. The new board worked perfectly.

It could be just a fluke. Also, do you absolutely have to install the Hyperion drivers? I've found that the MS drivers that install with XP are far more stable.

I'm planning up ugradein to to the athlon 64 939 chipset too. I just have a question. What do you guys do with your old computers and old parts?

Save them generally. Last year I realized I had enough left over parts from previous upgrades that I was able to build a backup PC. It's only a 300mhz celeron and the motherboard is incredibly flaky but I figure if anything happens to my primary, I'll have some means to order replacement parts instead of going to the school computer lab. I imagine that's a huge security risk buying stuff from a public terminal even though I usually take extra steps like deleting all the cookies and turning off password/form autocomplete.

 

[Biff Hardbody]

Ok. So far it looks like this then:


Biff:

Are you sure it's all Asus or Via chipsets and ATi drivers or just that particular one? It could be just a strange incompatibility with just that one board.

I bought a Biostar motherboard last year and couldn't get any mpeg-4 video to play without skipping like crazy. Nothing else was wrong with the system mind you. I tried just about every trick in the book to fix it, posted at anandtech and here about it, etc. No one could offer a solution that could fix it and I doubt they could, I had already tried just about everything.

I was ready to swear off the Via chipset for good but tried to get an exchange at newegg at the last minute. The cheapest alternate board was the same exact via chipset but a different manufacturer. The new board worked perfectly.

It could be just a fluke. Also, do you absolutely have to install the Hyperion drivers? I've found that the MS drivers that install with XP are far more stable.

It could be a fluke, but I honestly don't know. Here is my experience. I tried using 2 different drivers I found for the VIA board, neither worked. A variety of drivers for the Radeon all gave me the same error, the system reboots and "System has recovered from a serious error, Radeon display driver is the cause".

I checked with a variety of people, and no one had an error like. Then again, no one was using the Radeon drivers. Most who have upgraded to 939's have either a 6800 series card or an X800 (which I think has different drivers then the Radeon series, not 100% on that).

Regardless, ASUS had no clue on what the problem was. Neither did anyone from any forum (except teh pwn here, he had run into a similar problem). Most thought it was a psu or ram error, but it wasn't. Just the video drivers.

I read an article that said the new hyperion 4 in 1 drivers fixed a known problem with the Via chipset and Radeon drivers, but it did not work in my case.

I'm not sure if you need to install the MB drivers. Most everyone said to me that you did, but the system was working when I didn't have them in.

I'd just go with the msi to make sure. Its cheaper, it ssupposedly better. The only thing that would make me hold back is I heard msi had allot of problems with their quality in the 754 socket. But come on, ussually shit like that is overblown. I'd take the chance.

I will say this about the Asus board though, aside from that driver problem my system has been incredibly stable. Runs like a champ, everything is recognized...ecd.

Your new system sounds great. What kind of psu are you using? I'm using the Neopower 480 watt and that thing kicks ass. For one, it'll give you more power then bigger psu's because it's voltage reports are true. Another is that it uses a cable magement system, so you don't have to have a bunch of cables in it that restrict airflow. Finally, the fan is HUGE and that helps lower temps. I switched from using an Antec 430 watt to the neopower 480, and it lowered my temps by about 6 degrees idle and 3-4 under load.

Cases. I love how my Lian Li looks. So sleek. Quiet too. Airflow is a different story. People I know with similar setups have 5-10 degrees lower. I'm buying a new side window with 2 fans installed, hopefully that helps allot.

 

[The Shadow]

My current case has an Enermax 300 Watt PSU. It's dual fan so even if it's an adequate PSU, I may swap it out anyway because I'd like to get something quieter.

With a new HDD, for a total of 3 HDD and 2 DVD drives plus a new video card that'll require power from the PSU directly, I guess I'll have to swap it anyway.

 

[Biff Hardbody]

Keep the 480 in mind. Its a damn good one.

 

[Biff Hardbody]

Also, your case. It may just be my experience, but the Athlon 64 chips get hot.While the stock heatsink/fan is adequate, I would choose a case with really good cooling. I'm not sure what you are using, but I would go with something that has a side panel fan or two.

 

[rastex]

Why are you going the 939 route, how much are the mobo and CPU?

 

[The Shadow]

Why are you going the 939 route, how much are the mobo and CPU?

It's the new core. The CPU and motherboard I picked out would cost $425 and $125 respectively at newegg.com.

Looking at the total, that might put me over budget and that's without considering a new HDD, case, PSU, etc. I may just go with a Socket 754 CPU unless someone can tell me why I shouldn't. They cost half as much.

 

[Chony]

It's the new core. The CPU and motherboard I picked out would cost $425 and $125 respectively at newegg.com.

Looking at the total, that might put me over budget and that's without considering a new HDD, case, PSU, etc. I may just go with a Socket 754 CPU unless someone can tell me why I shouldn't. They cost half as much.

I think all you really get with socket 939 is dual channel memory, and overall better performance. I guess its a fair trade. I am just waiting for the socket 939's to drop in price a bit.

 

[Limedust]

From [H]ardOCP: http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjI2

... Second, we have a split happening in the Athlon64 brand. Some Athlon64s will continue to be socket 754 parts while others will share the socket 939 with the FX series. This is being done to allow AMD to segment their 754-pin CPUs as their "budget" CPUs as the Athlon XP is slowly phased out of the retail markets. Once this is done, it will of course give AMD claim to 64-bit OS ready CPUs from top to bottom. The Athlon64 CPUs that inhabit the socket 939 will pick up the benefits of dual channel memory while the 754-pin CPUs stay with single channel...

 

[The Shadow]

So....stick with the 939 then?

It'll be over budget but I can afford it. I'll just have to hold off on the new HDD and case for a little while.

Will dual-channel memory make a huge difference? I'm really in the dark here.

 

[shuri]

I got the same exact rig. I did some benchmarks - 69.6 fps in 1024x Doom3,High Quality, 2x anti-aliasing with timedemo demo1

I am rather underwhelmed actually, i think something's wrong somewhere

 

[cvkpaladin]

Do the timedemo twice. Its retarded that way.

 

[The Shadow]

Hello? Should I stick with the 939 then? Is it a significant boost to warrant the extra cost?

 

[Limedust]

Here are the major differences:

Socket 939:
1GHz HyperTransport bus
512k L2 cache
Dual-channel memory

Socket 754:
800 MHz HyperTransport bus
1MB L2 cache
Single-channel memory

Since Athlon's aren't as heavily pipelined as Intel processors, the extra 512k of cache of the 754 processors doesn't translate to a whole lot of increased processor ability (Pentiums get a better boost from increased cache memory). The increased speed of the HyperTransport bus adds far more processing power, as does the dual-channel memory controller of the 939's. Since AMD's CPU ratings already take all of this into account, it really doesn't make THAT much of a difference. It's your call, and it really comes down to what you want to do with your RAM... Dual-channel or not.

-- edit --

If you are asking my personal opinion, I say on your budget to look toward the 754 CPU. If you do upgrade down the road, I imagine you might take another look at PCI Express, which would involve more than just adding another stick of RAM, or just changing out a CPU. Both socket 939 and 754 are going to be AMD's sockets of choice for a while, so you can't really go wrong with either.

 

[cvkpaladin]

How does dual channel affect performance compared to single channel?

 

[The Shadow]

Here are the major differences:

Socket 939:
1GHz HyperTransport bus
512k L2 cache
Dual-channel memory

Socket 754:
800 MHz HyperTransport bus
1MB L2 cache
Single-channel memory

Since Athlon's aren't as heavily pipelined as Intel processors, the extra 512k of cache of the 754 processors doesn't translate to a whole lot of increased processor ability (Pentiums get a better boost from increased cache memory). The increased speed of the HyperTransport bus adds far more processing power, as does the dual-channel memory controller of the 939's. Since AMD's CPU ratings already take all of this into account, it really doesn't make THAT much of a difference. It's your call, and it really comes down to what you want to do with your RAM... Dual-channel or not.

-- edit --

If you are asking my personal opinion, I say on your budget to look toward the 754 CPU. If you do upgrade down the road, I imagine you might take another look at PCI Express, which would involve more than just adding another stick of RAM, or just changing out a CPU. Both socket 939 and 754 are going to be AMD's sockets of choice for a while, so you can't really go wrong with either.

So basically a 754 3500+ and a 939 3500+ (hypothetically) are going to perform the same?

I could afford a 939 system but I'd have to nix some other upgrades I was looking at like the 10k RPM HDD. That's not a huge sacrifice, since I can get along with my two 7200 rpm HDDs for a while.

 

[Limedust]

Shadow: As I understand it, yes those would perform roughly the same, not taking into account the on-die RAM controller of each (dual or single). RAM controller aside, there are probably certain specific applications where one might perform slightly better than the other.

If you look at processor requirements for anything, a 3500+ of either core is going to chew through whatever your doing. It's going to be some other part of the system bottlenecking for the next couple of years, assuming you aren't compiling large stacks of code.

 

[Chony]

Shadow: As I understand it, yes those would perform roughly the same, not taking into account the on-die RAM controller of each (dual or single). There are probably certain specific applications where one might perform slightly better than the other.

So basically it's not worth it to spend twice as much money for "maybe" better performance?

 

[The Shadow]

Shadow: As I understand it, yes those would perform roughly the same, not taking into account the on-die RAM controller of each (dual or single). RAM controller aside, there are probably certain specific applications where one might perform slightly better than the other.

If you look at processor requirements for anything, a 3500+ of either core is going to chew through whatever your doing. It's going to be some other part of the system bottlenecking for the next couple of years, assuming you aren't compiling large stacks of code.

Ah. Excellent. Well, going with a 754 will save me about $200.

I was originally going with a 939 because I vaugely remember someone recommending the Socket 939s over the 754s but come to think of it, I don't remember why.

Anyone want to recommend a good Socket 754 board? What's considered the best chipset? Nforce 3, VIA K8T800, Via K8M800, Sis 755, etc.

 

[Limedust]

Chony: From all of the comparisons and charts I have seen, memory bandwidth limited applications would be the only major difference seen between the two different socket styles. Everything else is roughly the same as specified by the processor rating.

 

[Biff Hardbody]

Ah. Excellent. Well, going with a 754 will save me about $200.

I was originally going with a 939 because I vaugely remember someone recommending the Socket 939s over the 754s but come to think of it, I don't remember why.

Really no difference between teh two performance wise. Hell, the 754 3400 beats the 3500 in some tests. I just went with the 3800 because it's a hoss and the 939 socket is supposed to be the one that AMD will use for the future.

 

[element]

aren't AMD going to phase out the 754? so upgrading will be a little painful in the future?

I saw the new Sempron 3100+ comes in 754, and I was tempted to get a shuttle case with a 754 slot then upgrade to full AMD 64 in the future.

 

[The Shadow]

I update so infrequently that I'm really not worried about swapping a mobo/cpu in the future. Every upgrade I've done, I've had to upgrade everything because the PC I was moving from was so outdated.

 

[Limedust]

Both the 754 and 939 sockets are going to be AMD's bread and butter as they continue to phase out the 32-bit (XP) processor line.

Socket 940 is dead aside from possibly the server market, and socket 462 (socket A) is being phased out slowly but surely.

If you want to see specific benchmark differences, they are available on all of the usual sites. The only major difference that came up was when they ran a memory bandwidth test, and the 939 was roughly twice as fast as the 754, which should suprise nobody. Other than that, everything roughly fell in line with the AMD advised processor rating.

 

[Limedust]

In regards to the one thing that everyone in here is worried about... when PC games were benchmarked with both the 754's and the 939's at a given rating, there was no discernible difference in performance (at least for any of the games that they benchmarked). Hope that makes everyone happy.

 

[Chony]

In regards to the one thing that everyone in here is worried about... when PC games were benchmarked with both the 754's and the 939's at a given rating, there was no discernible difference in performance (at least for any of the games that they benchmarked). Hope that makes everyone happy.

That is all I needed.

 

[Diablos]

My dream comp:

Lian-Li Aluminum Case with Side Panel Window & 1 Ball-Bearing Fan on the Top (Black), Model "PC-65B" -RETAIL
Item# N82E16811112040
$105.50

Lite-On 52X32X52 Internal EIDE CD-RW Drive Black, Model SOHR-5238S Black, OEM
$29.00

NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW Drive, Black, Model ND-3500A BK W/SW, OEM with software
$88.99

Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model WD740GD, OEM Drive Only
Item# N82E16822144160
$175.99

Mushkin Dual Pack 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-4000 - Retail
Item# N82E16820146314
$319.00

ASUS "A8V Deluxe" VIA K8T800 Pro Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 939 CPU -RETAIL
Item# N82E16813131510
$137.00

AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 512K, L2 Cache, Windows Compatible 64-bit Processor 939 Pin - Retail
$425.00

eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800GT Video Card, 256MB GDDR3, 256-Bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "256-A8-N344-AX" -RETAIL
$399.00

Final price: $1,677.48

 

[The Shadow]

Ok. This is what I'm looking to order. PLEASE tell me if you see anything I should change.

CPU:
Athlon 64 3400+ Socket 754 + ZALMAN CNPS7000A-Cu Pure Copper CPU Cooler

Mobo:
SOLTEK "SL-K8AV2-RL" K8T800 Chipset

Video:
eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800GT

PSU:
Thermaltake Silent PurePower, 420W, ( Active PFC )

Memory:
Mushkin 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 (x2 for 1gb total)



Any comments? Further advice?

 

[Diablos]

After getting a dead Soltek nForce 2 board I would say stay away, but that's because I am pissed

Get a 3500+ 939 CPU, it is worth the extra money. Think ahead... the faster FSB will benefit you greatly. A little goes a long way whenever your CPU gets outdated. For example, my 2400+'s FSB OC'd to 360 from 266 makes a huge difference. It prolly didn't when it first came out, but now it does (especially with all the games that are coming out).

Thermaltake fans suck. Get an Antec PSU. Those PSU's are rock solid..

 

[element]

I just built this for a friend.

AMD Sempron 3100+
2x256 MB PC3200 Ram
Hitachi 80 GB SATA
Radeon 9550 128MB AGP
NEC ND-3500A BK
Shuttle SN85G4V2
Hyundai ImageQuest L70S 17” LCD
NEC Black External USB Floppy Disk Drive
Logitech Z-640

only a $1k

 

[rastex]

Too expensive, you could get similar results for $400 cheaper.

My system (all prices from Newegg, except for videocard):

DDRAM 512MB|64X64 PC-3200B 8T CRU% 2 $88.00 $176.00
CASE ANTEC|MID TOWER SONATA RET 1 $119.00 $119.00
DVD+/-RW NEC ND-2510A BLK % NO SW 1 $71.99 $71.99
ABit KV8 Pro $101.00
A64 3000+ $175.00
x800 Pro $250 (company offer, replace this with a 9800 Pro or something)
WD 160 SATA $100

All that for about $1000 including tax and all of that. I can run Tribes: Vengeance at Ultra High and have it run silky smooth with no hiccups. What more could I want? uh.. except for monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers (but I already have those)

 

[The Shadow]

Too expensive, you could get similar results for $400 cheaper.

My system (all prices from Newegg, except for videocard):

DDRAM 512MB|64X64 PC-3200B 8T CRU% 2 $88.00 $176.00
CASE ANTEC|MID TOWER SONATA RET 1 $119.00 $119.00
DVD+/-RW NEC ND-2510A BLK % NO SW 1 $71.99 $71.99
ABit KV8 Pro $101.00
A64 3000+ $175.00
x800 Pro $250 (company offer, replace this with a 9800 Pro or something)

All that for about $1000 including tax and all of that. I can run Tribes: Vengeance at Ultra High and have it run silky smooth with no hiccups. What more could I want?

The total I'm running now is $1010. That's not $400 cheaper, it's only $10 more than what you're running. I already have a ND-2510a too (awesome writer btw).

 

[element]

well the 17" LCD and the Shuttle case really bloated the price.

 

[The Shadow]

well the 17" LCD and the Shuttle case really bloated the price.

I was responding to rastex dude.

 

[rastex]

I was talking to Diablos, sorry all!

Um... my only complaint for you Shadow would probably be the 3400+ processor. Any reason why you need the extra processing power? I don't think it's gonna make any difference in gaming in the next 2 years, and by that time you'll be able to pick a better one up for much cheaper.

 

[element]

oh. doh.

 

[The Shadow]

I was talking to Diablos, sorry all!

Doh! You've caused total mayhem.

Um... my only complaint for you Shadow would probably be the 3400+ processor. Any reason why you need the extra processing power? I don't think it's gonna make any difference in gaming in the next 2 years, and by that time you'll be able to pick a better one up for much cheaper.

What should I cut it down to then? Remember, I don't upgrade very often. The CPU I'm running now is an Athlon 1.333ghz to give you an idea. I need something that'll last me a while, though if you think I can do with something less powerful that'll stick for at least 2 years, by all means name one.

 

[rastex]

I'm "upgrading" from a p2 400

Well, if you look at the Doom3 CPU stress tests the 3000+ actually performed VERY damn well. To go from the 2800+ -> 3000+ it's a $10 difference, but to go from the 3000->3200 it's $50, I just didn't think it'd be worth the extra money and the 3400 is even more expensive than that.

 

[The Shadow]

Point taken.

Alright. I've replaced the 3400+ for a 3000+.

Any other suggestions? Should I get a Via or Nforce based board? Any other suggestions on the PSU? (Couldn't find that Neopower at newegg btw)

 

[rastex]

If you're not overclocking then the Abit KV8 Pro is probably your best bet, though it does lack a firewire slot :/

 

[The Shadow]

What's the difference between the KV8 and KV8 Pro? I'm looking at the specs that newegg is listing and they look identical. :/

And why so much for that board?


But no, I don't really plan on overclocking.

 

[Chony]

What's the difference between the KV8 and KV8 Pro? I'm looking at the specs that newegg is listing and they look identical. :/

And why so much for that board?


But no, I don't really plan on overclocking.

I have the same problem. What is the difference (besides money)?

 

[Limedust]

After getting a dead Soltek nForce 2 board I would say stay away, but that's because I am pissed

Get a 3500+ 939 CPU, it is worth the extra money. Think ahead... the faster FSB will benefit you greatly. A little goes a long way whenever your CPU gets outdated. For example, my 2400+'s FSB OC'd to 360 from 266 makes a huge difference. It prolly didn't when it first came out, but now it does (especially with all the games that are coming out).

Thermaltake fans suck. Get an Antec PSU. Those PSU's are rock solid..

Diablos: Athlon 64's don't have a FSB in the traditional sense, as the memory controller is now directly on the CPU die (not in the Northbridge of a motherboard chipset, as all other CPU lines). The on-die CPU controller runs at the same clock speed as the CPU, it's just a matter of what speed RAM that AMD is designing the controller to interface with. My guess is that when they need to pull a rabbit out of their hat to counter suprises by Intel, they will announce Athlon 64's that interface with DDR533, DDR600, etc. As shown by benchmarks, in gaming applications, the memory bandwidth is not a bottle neck as all (much as AGP 8X isn't even close to being maxed out in any real-world gaming situation today). Obviously this will become more of a factor as time passes, though.