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[Synbios459]

Now I have absolutely no knowledge of programming, so this may sound strange. But how did it work exactly? Did it somehow totally re-write the code of the games, and trick it into thinking it's Sonic (albeit with Knuckles sprite, and his abilities), or was Knuckles already in the games? If so, could he be accessed, with, say, Game Genie? Did Yu really plan that far ahead when he made Sonic 2?

 

[Kobun Heat]

As I understand it, Knuckles was already in Sonic 3. The lock-on cartridge just told the Sonic 3 cart to switch into "Sonic 3 + Knuckles" mode. IIRC.

 

[Zilch]

I think it worked basically like a Game Genie for Sonics 1-3, just adding sprites and whatnot.

But it's a good question that I'd like a definite answer to.

 

[belgurdo]

Sonic 3 and S&K were originally one game (very obvious from stuff left in Sonic 3) split up either because Sega couldn't finish the entire game in time or they just wanted people to spend $100 on Sonic 3, so they split some of the Sonic 3 data and put it on a separate rom cart, which became S&K (unused stuff on the Sonic 3 cart was either partially erased or "dummied out.") When put together the Genesis reads both carts as one rom image and plays it as "Sonic 3 and Knuckles."

Knuckles in Sonic 2 is the result of Sega putting an extra chip on the S&K cart that functions as a "patch" for Sonic 2 that changes the appropriate sprites and graphics.

And the random special levels thing I think is just a program that creates levels from the data in the Sonic 1 cartridge (or other games, but Sonic 1 allows you to play every custom special level.)

Learned most of this from Sonic Cult

 

[cs060mk2]

did Sonic 3 really cost 100 bucks?!

 

[dark10x]

did Sonic 3 really cost 100 bucks?!

Sonic 3 was originally supposed to be both Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, right? So, in order to play the entire game, you'd need to buy both S3 and S&K...which would cost $100. I don't remember Sonic 3 costing $100 by itself, though...but who knows. Phantasy Star 4 was in that price range.

 

[tedtropy]

I can still recall the days when SNES and Genesis titles got up to and beyond the 70 buck range. I believe Final Fantasy 3 (FFVI) was near that range or higher. Of course in those times we'd (and by we, I mean have our parents buy) gladly spend that sort of money on a game that we'd waste months on. Now our games better be around 40 bucks.

 

[human5892]

I can still recall the days when SNES and Genesis titles got up to and beyond the 70 buck range. I believe Final Fantasy 3 (FFVI) was near that range or higher. Of course in those times we'd (and by we, I mean have our parents buy) gladly spend that sort of money on a game that we'd waste months on. Now our games better be around 40 bucks.

I think I spent like $72 on a then brand-new Mario 64 cart. Now I cannot fathom paying even $50 for a brand-new game.

 

[Evenball]

Sonic 3 debuted with a msrp of $50, i still rember using a $10 off coupon from a magazine to get it for $40.

Sonic 2 and Knuckles changed more than just the graphics. Knuckles could fly and climb walls. There were even new secrets to be found that only knuckles could get to. This leads me to believe that the game engine would actually be running from the knuckles cartridge and it was using the Sonic 2 cartridge as data.

BTW, I remember paying $80 for Street Fighter II snes.

 

[Deleted member 284]

BTW, I remember paying $80 for Street Fighter II snes.

Heh..I got mine for $50 on release day.

Edit: $50 CAD.

 

[Acrylamid]

I can still recall the days when SNES and Genesis titles got up to and beyond the 70 buck range.

In the last breaths of the N64, Nintendo of Europe refused to release Conker's Bad Fur Day, so THQ picked it up and released it for a recommended price of 189 DM, that's 96.63€ or 119.85 $.
Most games today are released for 59.99 € - that's 74.40 $ - in Germany.
You can imagine how we Europeans feel when we see you Americans nagging about the oh-so expensive games...

 

[sc0la]

As I understand it S+K was a sort of passthrough game, it comunicated directly to the genesis like it was standalone and then it ripped code from the old games that you plugged in the top.

Here is a fun fact, due to a manufacturing error, the entire initial run of US carts were essentially useless because of a PCB manufacturing probem. They needed to have that portion of the product done by mid october to get it ready for the christmas season. The worked pretty muuch non stop on the thing over a period of a few days and turned out a whole other set of them with the error corrected in time to ship for christmas. S+K almost didn't make it that Christmas.

I don't recall all the details but I could probably get the info if you guys are interested.

 

[belgurdo]

I can still recall the days when SNES and Genesis titles got up to and beyond the 70 buck range. I believe Final Fantasy 3 (FFVI) was near that range or higher. Of course in those times we'd (and by we, I mean have our parents buy) gladly spend that sort of money on a game that we'd waste months on. Now our games better be around 40 bucks.

I remember that too. ALL RPGs were $75+, regardless of quality (and stuff like PS4 was $100 at launch!) Virtua Racing was $100 (in fact, when I used to rent from a local mom&pop store, they wanted a $20 deposit before you rented the game. Not surprisingly, they stopped asking for it after a couple of months once they realized that no one would do this.) But most other games usually peaked at around $60 ($50 for Genesis games, since they were for "poorer" gamers)

 

[Crazymoogle]

I remember that too. ALL RPGs were $75+, regardless of quality (and stuff like PS4 was $100 at launch!) Virtua Racing was $100 (in fact, when I used to rent from a local mom&pop store, they wanted a $20 deposit before you rented the game. Not surprisingly, they stopped asking for it after a couple of months once they realized that no one would do this.) But most other games usually peaked at around $60 ($50 for Genesis games, since they were for "poorer" gamers)

Without any centralized, EBGames like system, prices were pretty whacky back then. Take a look at these BC prices:

Final Fantasy 2: $125 CDN + 14% Tax
Final Fantasy 3: $135 CDN + 14% Tax
Chrono Trigger: $125 CDN + 14% Tax
Street Fighter 2: $120 CDN + 14% Tax

Trade in values were somewhat higher in the day, but it really was hard to own more than 2 games at any given time.

 

[jarrod]

Sonic 3 debuted with a msrp of $50, i still rember using a $10 off coupon from a magazine to get it for $40.

Nope, Sonic 3 had an official MSRP of $59.99 to $69.99 believe it or not. If you got the game for $40 at launch, you got a hell of a deal.

 

[6.8]

Heh..I got mine for $50 on release day.

Edit: $50 CAD.

How the heck did you do that? It sold for twice the price everywhere.

 

[Bog]

Nope, Sonic 3 had an official MSRP of $59.99 to $69.99 believe it or not. If you got the game for $40 at launch, you got a hell of a deal.

Wrong. $50.

 

[jarrod]

Wrong. $50.

Wrong. I priced it various places... EB was highest at $70.

 

[levious]

that doesn't mean the MSRP was 70 does it?

I've never seen one given out as a range.

 

[FortNinety]

I remember Virtua Racing costing $99.99, but I got mine for $89.99 thanks to a Toys R Us coupon, but I would have gladly pay that extra $10; I LOVED that game.

 

[FortNinety]

Awesome topic btw. Funny how I much I've always loved the game, but never really took the time to think about how the technology worked.

Anyways, Knuckles being in Sonic 2 was pretty amazing for several reasons, but I was always curious why the same couldn't be one for part 1 (though I think some of the posts here might shed light as to why).

BUT, I recall that in the water levels from part 1 (stage 4), way up on the very top portions were slopes for running around, but I could never figure out a means to get there. I had always assumed it was something Sonic Team started but enver finished but was just left there, and that S&K would finally make it accessbile. But that never happened. Anyboyd know what I'm talking about?

 

[belgurdo]

Awesome topic btw. Funny how I much I've always loved the game, but never really took the time to think about how the technology worked.

Anyways, Knuckles being in Sonic 2 was pretty amazing for several reasons, but I was always curious why the same couldn't be one for part 1 (though I think some of the posts here might shed light as to why).

BUT, I recall that in the water levels from part 1 (stage 4), way up on the very top portions were slopes for running around, but I could never figure out a means to get there. I had always assumed it was something Sonic Team started but enver finished but was just left there, and that S&K would finally make it accessbile. But that never happened. Anyboyd know what I'm talking about?

I can't really remember, but I think some parts of Hydrocity loop. There is a ceiling, though, since some people at Sonic Cult have reported that there are Sonic statues at the tops of the columns in the background.

 

[Matlock]

S&K was $50 when I bought it and that was only but a month or so after release at Ames.

 

[Thaedolus]

Super Mario RPG = $75 out of my dear mother's pocket

I think she paid around 90 for Shadows of the Empire too, stupid carts/supply/demand

 

[Matlock]

Jeez, I seriously don't know about you guys, but the highest I ever paid for a SNES era game was Mortal Kombat 3, and that was $55 (finder's fee to an Ames employee was $5, since they had a short shipment, and I wanted it on day 1).

 

[Spectral Glider]

I remember Streets of Rage II was $69.99 most places when it was released. My mother dropped that much on it for Christmas that year. Still an awesome game, but not sure it's $70 awesome, lol.

 

[Lazy8s]

I believe Sonic 2 was programmed in a forward-thinking, modular way that left hooks for a future game to interact with it.

 

[The Faceless Master]

i remember paying $70 for SF2 Turbo on SNES

 

[cvxfreak]

I remember some SFC and N64 games being 9800 Yen in Japan. Mostly Dragon Quest games, but eh...

 

[tedtropy]

Several years back, a cousin of mine imported Street Fighter II for the SNES before it made its way to our shores. It was somewhere near $200 bucks, plus he had to buy the converter. Needless to say, he was my hero for the next several months as we played what is probably the most famous port of all time for quite awhile before anyone us in our neighborhood. That feeling was only somewhat matched when I imported my GBA with Super Mario Bros. II. 19 years old and I was touting that thing around my college showing it off to my buddies like I was that giddy little kid again. Sigh, I wish I could say I had more moments like that in gaming presently, but now days I'm hardpressed just to build up the energy to fire up my X-Box...

 

[Zilch]

I definitely bought Sonic 3, as well as Sonic & Knuckles for $50 at the local Toys R Us.

 

[Kobun Heat]

I remember some SFC and N64 games being 9800 Yen in Japan. Mostly Dragon Quest games, but eh...

I think FFVI's original price was like 11500 yen, or something like that.

 

[FortNinety]

BTW, I remember paying $40 for Sonic 3, but then again, everything is cheaper on a military base. Anyway, I didn't realize the game was so expensive when it was released.

 

[Brannon]

Phantasy Star 4 - $99

Final Fantasy X-2 - $39

b b b b b b but they say piracy is making games more expensive...





Don't mind me, just bein' a bastard

 

[RevenantKioku]

Just after a few weeks in Japan, I don't think I'm gonna be complaining about new game prices in the states. Used games on the other hand...

 

[cvxfreak]

Just after a few weeks in Japan, I don't think I'm gonna be complaining about new game prices in the states. Used games on the other hand...

Aren't games in Akihabara discounted up the wazoo? I remember buying Mario vs. DK for 3480 Yen, Donkey Konga for 3980 Yen, a Swan Crystal for 1980 Yen, FFIV WSC for 1400 Yen... all VERY cheap deals since they were new. The prices aren't exact but they're in that area...

 

[RevenantKioku]

Fuck if I know, I haven't been to Tokyo yet. I'm in Kanazawa and got the WS and saw FF4 for similar prices, haven't paid attention to the other ones. Still, DQ5 is like 5000-7000 and a lot of other games are in that range. The cheapest I found Atelier Iris was 5200, but that was used.

 

[cvxfreak]

I'm really sorry if I insulted your intelligence, I didn't mean to do that.

The games in Tokyo didn't see too expensive to me, U.S. prices considered. Might be different where you're at of course. It certainly helps for me since the MSRPs are often ignored, and tax is already included...

 

[RevenantKioku]

Nah, hey, no need to worry, you would have no way of knowing where I've been in Japan. I just sound angry cause I'm leaving next week, and don't want to.
Anyway, I've seen a lot of RPGs in the 7000 yen range. Sure, tax and conversion rates play into it, but that's still a few bucks higher. Especially on gameboy games, which I've seen a lot of in the 4500 range. But, even though, used games are at a great price, and are in such awesome condition, it puts the US ones to shame.

 

[cvxfreak]

Oh yes, used games in Japan. I couldn't believe my eyes at how good my Saturn copy of BioHazard was. Of course I can't play it because I don't have a Japanese Saturn and couldn't find one either, but all bets are that it works as well as when it was first played. Unlike the fingerprint drenched, ultra-scratched U.S. games.

Leaving Japan was tough for me too (I was depressed the flight back), I only stayed 6 days. I'd give anything to go back there, but the soonest is next year.