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Democrats filibuster Gorsuch nomination, GOP triggers "nuclear option"

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G

GoldenEye 007

Member
jett said:
Can those be nuked too?
Click to expand...
Sure. And maybe they try that healthcare bill again. Would be blood on the streets.

Democrats generally want to see progress and a functioning government. A simple majority makes that much easier. If you're interested in the status quo or reversing programs/civil protections like the GOP are, more barriers the better.

Ending of the filibuster legislatively means things like single payer or public option is the cornerstone of US healthcare. Terrifying for the GOP.
 
O

Omegasquash

Member
SolarPowered said:
It was going to backfire no matter what. Republicans would nuke the filibuster in a split second if it meant replacing RBG before 2020. At least this way we no longer have to pretend that bipartisanship matters.
Click to expand...

They're doing it because the Dems set precedent by doing exactly the same thing for federal judges. IIRC, the GOP begged them not to.

The shoe is now on the other foot, and one with much larger exposure too. I grant you, the GOP blockage of Obama's appointees was absurd, and since 2008 bipartisanship has been put to the side and one-upped by rhetoric and outright lies, but Dems shouldn't claim to take the total high road. The GOP is doing to them what they did to the GOP. This is the backfire, and probably the first of many of this type.

If we don't get sensible legislators elected that operate with some degree of integrity and respect for the way our institutions operate, it's just going to get uglier.

Doc Holliday said:
I would laugh so hard if Gorsuch ends up being another Kennedy lol
Click to expand...

We'd be lucky to get a Roberts. I have my doubts, but if Gorsuch is a stealth Scalia clone, then prepare for more resistance to social progress.
 
T

TheOfficeMut

Unconfirmed Member
Doc Holliday said:
I would laugh so hard if Gorsuch ends up being another Kennedy lol
Click to expand...

I imagine that as a judge, although you're not supposed to be partisan (lol), you become pretty jaded after one of the parties filibusters your nomination, and make spiteful decisions regarding court decisions that go against the grain of said party.
 
B

Blader

Member
Auto_aim1 said:
McConnell is smart. This is a lifetime appointment and Gorsuch is what, 50? The benefits outweigh the risks for Republicans.
Click to expand...

Sure, this is a big win for them right now, especially with the potential to push through more conservative justices in the next 3.5 years on a simple majority vote.

But, when a Dem president with a Dem Senate in the next 4-8 years starts replacing Thomas and Alito with young progressives and the GOP can't do a thing about it, Republicans might start to resent McConnell's decision here.

Doc Holliday said:
I would laugh so hard if Gorsuch ends up being another Kennedy lol
Click to expand...

SCOTUS justices tend to drift leftward as they get older, and while that's kind of a moot point with justices who are in their 60s/70s and already pretty far to the right, the upside to Gorsuch being 49 is that maybe he'll be on the bench long enough to move closer to Roberts.
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
Omegasquash said:
They're doing it because the Dems set precedent by doing exactly the same thing for federal judges. IIRC, the GOP begged them not to.

The shoe is now on the other foot, and one with much larger exposure too. I grant you, the GOP blockage of Obama's appointees was absurd, and since 2008 bipartisanship has been put to the side and one-upped by rhetoric and outright lies, but Dems shouldn't claim to take the total high road. The GOP is doing to them what they did to the GOP. This is the backfire, and probably the first of many of this type.

If we don't get sensible legislators elected that operate with some degree of integrity and respect for the way our institutions operate, it's just going to get uglier.
Click to expand...
This is not the same thing really. For one, this seat should not have still been open. GOP blocked even having a hearing. On the federal judge situation, they also blocked anyone and everyone to the point of it affecting the court system.

GOP is anti governance. Dems at least work to try to improve things even if they make mistakes or dumb decisions sometimes.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Blader said:
I'm talking about the judicial filibuster for SCOTUS appointments. Unless there are hundreds of filibustered SCOTUS picks I'm not aware of.



Again, it took dozens of blocked judicial and cabinet appointments for Reid to nuke that filibuster. If it only took one filibustered SCOTUS appointment to force McConnell to do the same, then the SCOTUS filibuster was not a very strong or durable rule to begin with.
Click to expand...

Only time it's been successfully used is on LBJ trying to elevate someone already on the court to chief justice to replace Warren, which also tied up the judge LBJ wanted to take his place, and ultimately caused LBJ to lose a justice pick to Nixon.

Really sucks that Warren still went through with retirement after Nixon became president.
 
J

Josh7289

Member
The moment the Democrats regain power of any part of Congress, they should obstruct and block everything the Republicans try to do. It clearly works.
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
TheOfficeMut said:
I imagine that as a judge, although you're not supposed to be partisan (lol), you become pretty jaded after one of the parties filibusters your nomination, and make spiteful decisions regarding court decisions that go against the grain of said party.
Click to expand...
He's had an extremely quick confirmation process. If he's upset over that, then it further proves how bad he is.
 
M

Metroidvania

People called Romanes they go the house?
Omegasquash said:
They're doing it because the Dems set precedent by doing exactly the same thing for federal judges. IIRC, the GOP begged them not to.

The shoe is now on the other foot, and one with much larger exposure too. I grant you, the GOP blockage of Obama's appointees was absurd, and since 2008 bipartisanship has been put to the side and one-upped by rhetoric and outright lies, but Dems shouldn't claim to take the total high road. The GOP is doing to them what they did to the GOP. This is the backfire, and probably the first of many of this type.

If we don't get sensible legislators elected that operate with some degree of integrity and respect for the way our institutions operate, it's just going to get uglier.
Click to expand...

Of course the GOP was begging them not to, lol. At the time, they wanted to give the 'the Dems are being CRAZY' approach to their base while simultaneously near, if not unilaterlly blocking Obama's appointments.

And with Garland, it wasn't even filibustering, it was flat-out obstruction.

While I don't disagree that Harry Reid's actions were at least partly responsible for getting us to this point, I don't know if McConnell wouldn't have gone nuclear even without the precedent. Things are too 'us versus them' right now.
 
B

btrboyev

Member
Josh7289 said:
The moment the Democrats regain power of any part of Congress, they should obstruct and block everything the Republicans try to do. It clearly works.
Click to expand...

Democrats will not have any of that type of power for quite some time. They will not make any gains in 2018.

Republicans get the win today and the rules are going to benefit them as they continue and will continue to control congress.

A new health care bill will be on the table in the next couple weeks and it's probably going to go through.
 
T

TylerD

Member
btrboyev said:
Democrats will not have any of that type of power for quite some time. They will not make any gains in 2018.

Republicans get the win today and the rules are going to benefit them as they continue and will continue to control congress.

A new health care bill will be on the table in the next couple weeks and it's probably going to go through.
Click to expand...

Why do you think it will probably go through?
 
G

Glix

Member
btrboyev said:
Democrats will not have any of that type of power for quite some time. They will not make any gains in 2018.

Republicans get the win today and the rules are going to benefit them as they continue and will continue to control congress.

A new health care bill will be on the table in the next couple weeks and it's probably going to go through.
Click to expand...

I love posts like this that state everything as fact, when no one on earth can know. Keep it up.
 
Auto_aim1

Auto_aim1

MeisaMcCaffrey
Blader said:
Sure, this is a big win for them right now, especially with the potential to push through more conservative justices in the next 3.5 years on a simple majority vote.

But, when a Dem president with a Dem Senate in the next 4-8 years starts replacing Thomas and Alito with young progressives and the GOP can't do a thing about it, Republicans might start to resent McConnell's decision here.
Click to expand...
If Dems have the senate they'll use the nuclear option too, wouldn't they?
 
N

nintendoman58

Member
btrboyev said:
Democrats will not have any of that type of power for quite some time. They will not make any gains in 2018.

Republicans get the win today and the rules are going to benefit them as they continue and will continue to control congress.

A new health care bill will be on the table in the next couple weeks and it's probably going to go through.
Click to expand...

Why the shit do people post like they know literally everything that's gonna happen?

Did you not see ANYTHING that's happened the last month?
 
G

guek

Banned
Omegasquash said:
They're doing it because the Dems set precedent by doing exactly the same thing for federal judges. IIRC, the GOP begged them not to.

The shoe is now on the other foot, and one with much larger exposure too. I grant you, the GOP blockage of Obama's appointees was absurd, and since 2008 bipartisanship has been put to the side and one-upped by rhetoric and outright lies, but Dems shouldn't claim to take the total high road. The GOP is doing to them what they did to the GOP. This is the backfire, and probably the first of many of this type.

If we don't get sensible legislators elected that operate with some degree of integrity and respect for the way our institutions operate, it's just going to get uglier.



We'd be lucky to get a Roberts. I have my doubts, but if Gorsuch is a stealth Scalia clone, then prepare for more resistance to social progress.
Click to expand...

While I think these are mostly reasonable points, I see it differently.

In 2013, it came down to whether or not you wanted a functioning judicial branch. If the GOP were ideologically opposed to Obama's appointments, that'd be one thing, but it was literally party over country at that point. The GOP did not care if the government came to a standstill on Obama's watch. That's what they wanted. They deliberately took steps to hurt the nation by prioritizing opposition over governing. The dems could have held fast and refused to change the rules but that would not have benefited anyone. The judicial branch would still be crippled, Obama would look bad for failing to get his appointments through, and the GOP would be successful in the goal of blocking everything and anything Obama related. The dems were also quickly losing power in both the senate and the house with no guarantee that they'd get those seats back or even retain the white house in 2016. It would have been even worse had the dems given in to GOP obstructionism and then lost the white house in 2016. The nuclear option wasn't a good choice but it was the least bad one on the table.
 
T

Trey

Member
btrboyev said:
Democrats will not have any of that type of power for quite some time. They will not make any gains in 2018.

Republicans get the win today and the rules are going to benefit them as they continue and will continue to control congress.

A new health care bill will be on the table in the next couple weeks and it's probably going to go through.
Click to expand...

Maybe.

Maybe.

No.
 
B

btrboyev

Member
Glix said:
I love posts like this that state everything as fact, when no one on earth can know. Keep it up.
Click to expand...

I'm actually using facts as a basis for democrats losing more seats in 2018. That has been the trend for the past 3 election cycles and republican gerrymandered the hell out of their districts in those past 3 elections to solidify their hold as not changing.

America is a changing country. It's way too politicized to turn around that quickly. Trumps fuck ups will have no bearing on house seats.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
btrboyev said:
Democrats will not have any of that type of power for quite some time. They will not make any gains in 2018.

Republicans get the win today and the rules are going to benefit them as they continue and will continue to control congress.

A new health care bill will be on the table in the next couple weeks and it's probably going to go through.
Click to expand...

Someone needs to update the OP explaining the difference between the judicial and legislative filibusters.
 
K

KingK

Member
GoldenEye 007 said:
Sure. And maybe they try that healthcare bill again. Would be blood on the streets.

Democrats generally want to see progress and a functioning government. A simple majority makes that much easier. If you're interested in the status quo or reversing programs/civil protections like the GOP are, more barriers the better.

Ending of the filibuster legislatively means things like single payer or public option is the cornerstone of US healthcare. Terrifying for the GOP.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The Senate is already terribly undemocratic as is, with every state having 2 senators regardless of population. The removal of the legislative filibuster altogether helps the progressive cause in the long run much more than conservatives.
 
Swass

Swass

Member
btrboyev said:
A new health care bill will be on the table in the next couple weeks and it's probably going to go through.
Click to expand...

I hope people aren't buying the health care bill still being on the table.. Trump and Ryan made a huge mistake saying the bill is dead and republicans are taking massive heat for this. These renewed talks are just a smokescreen to keep their constituents at bay..
 
H

Hickbilly Deluxe

Banned
I can see Trump getting one more pick at a minimum since RBG isn't the healthiest person around. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one thinking of retirement soon?

Trump could get three picks in his 4 years, and the democrats will be powerless to stop it.
 
N

nintendoman58

Member
btrboyev said:
I'm actually using facts as a basis for democrats losing more seats in 2018. That has been the trend for the past 3 election cycles and republican gerrymandered the hell out of their districts in those past 3 elections to solidify their hold as not changing.

America is a changing country. It's way too politicized to turn around that quickly. Trumps fuck ups will have no bearing on house seats.
Click to expand...

Past trends constantly indicate that it's the opposing party to the president that makes the most gains in these mid-terms.

Can people like you please stop acting like you're some kind of prophet? People have been ENRAGED at their senators for the shit that's been going down.
 
G

guek

Banned
'77 Shortbox said:
I can see Trump getting one more pick at a minimum since RBG isn't the healthiest person around. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one thinking of retirement soon?

Trump could get three picks in his 4 years, and the democrats will be powerless to stop it.
Click to expand...

We really have to take back the Senate next year :-(

not gonna happen
 
K

Kid Kamikaze10

Member
I'm hearing a lot about "when the dem's take back power."

As if the Republicans will not do everything in their power, legally, shouldn't be legally, and illegally, to prevent exactly that.

There's no when. Fight gerrymandering and voter suppression first. Then maybe talk about when.
 
B

btrboyev

Member
Swass said:
I hope people aren't buying the health care bill still being on the table.. Trump and Ryan made a huge mistake saying the bill is dead and republicans are taking massive heat for this. These renewed talks are just a smokescreen to keep their constituents at bay..
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure. Do not under estimate the fuckery of republicans.
 
A

akira28

Member
Josh7289 said:
The moment the Democrats regain power of any part of Congress, they should obstruct and block everything the Republicans try to do. It clearly works.
Click to expand...

We took for granted how far gone the Republican's lack of belief in the American government had gone. They clearly want the shit to burn like fucking Rome. And they figure they'll pick up the pieces and rule what is left. There was an exchange and a compact of government between the two parties, but the Republican party has just let the balance flip over and over. Time and again they repeat how they want to break the government, they distrust the government, and these are the people in charge now. Not the moderates. So letting government break and taking the process hostage is how someone operates when they want to destroy the house they're in. That isn't the Democratic way, that isn't the way of someone who wants to get the work of the people done.

Instead, its time to destroy the Republican party. They want to blow up the house. I say throw them the fuck out.
 
P

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Kid Kamikaze10 said:
There's no when. Fight gerrymandering and voter suppression first. Then maybe talk about when.
Click to expand...

True.
However, we also had far FAR too many people not show up last year, even though there was nothing preventing them from doing so.

If we can't make gains in 2018 & 2020, then there's no hope of redrawing the districts.
 
O

Omegasquash

Member
Kid Kamikaze10 said:
I'm hearing a lot about "when the dem's take back power."

As if the Republicans will not do everything in their power, legally, shouldn't be legally, and illegally, to prevent exactly that.

There's no when. Fight gerrymandering and voter suppression first. Then maybe talk about when.
Click to expand...

Well put.
 
R

Random Painted HIghway

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
There is no difference in how Gorsuch will vote compared to any other conservative. There is no one worse than Gorsuch, they are all identical and vote in lockstep

The Supreme Court is a rigidly partisan institute, all that matters is the letter next to their name, it doesn't matter who the person is.
Click to expand...

What a weird post only a few years removed from Roberts's aca opinion. Scotus judges are going to agree with each other individually 70-90% of the time, including scalia Thomas and alito. Why would you expect gorsuch to vote 100% with alito Roberts and thomas when that didn't happen with scalia?
 
B

Bruce Springsteen

Member
so for the next 40 years we are going to have a judge so extreme and stupid and is going to interpret the constitution as it was written at the time, by the slave owning founding fathers

and people think things are going to change anytime soon in this country? not for another 30-40 years
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
Bruce Springsteen said:
so for the next 40 years we are going to have a judge so extreme and stupid and is going to interpret the constitution as it was written at the time, by the slave owning founding fathers

and people think things are going to change anytime soon in this country? not for another 30-40 years
Click to expand...
This seat ultimately replaces Scalia, which was that anyway.

The real issue is if RBG goes down. At that point, yeah, the court is fucked for awhile.
 
G

guek

Banned
Bruce Springsteen said:
so for the next 40 years we are going to have a judge so extreme and stupid and is going to interpret the constitution as it was written at the time, by the slave owning founding fathers

and people think things are going to change anytime soon in this country? not for another 30-40 years
Click to expand...

Pretty sure another judge will either die or retire before then, mate
 
N

nintendoman58

Member
I seriously really wish people would stop with the depressive hot takes that they have on the future. It's getting really annoying to read.

"Oooooohhh this won't happen. Ooooooh this will happen. Ooooooh I'm using faaaaaaacts. Ooooooooh gerrymaaaandering. Ooooooh nothing good haaaaapppeeeenns. Oooooooh nothing will come of thiiiiiiis."

You people just don't stop with this unproductive attitude that accomplishes nothing no matter what happens. You only say this just so you can satisfy your own confirmation bias of your depressing view of the world.

You constantly repeat the exact same talking points describing other facts as some giant amorphous blob that doesn't get affected by OTHER facts.

Here's the REAL fact folks. None of you, ABSOLUTELY NONE of you, knows what the future has in store. It's one thing to say on what's likely to happen, but constantly spamming your depressing worldviews as 100% fact only creates more depression to those around you and less action, when the latter is what's needed more than ever right now!
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
Bruce Springsteen said:
so for the next 40 years we are going to have a judge so extreme and stupid and is going to interpret the constitution as it was written at the time
Click to expand...
Please do not buy into this. It's right wing propoganda that just aims to delegitimize liberal justice rulings and make conservative justices obviously bullshit rulings more palatable

Conservative justices conveniently forget existing laws that go against their ideology constantly
 
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