Support NeoGAF

[ReyBrujo]

​

I searched for Javascript, Python, C#, programming, design patterns... heck, even unreal engine and unity, yet found no thread, no community about programming. Come on guys, when I was a child I dreamed of programming my own games! I ended up programming for physicians and not gamers but that's a different story

Was wondering if between the probably dozens of game developers around were others who were interested in learning, who had doubts about programming languages, who were thinking about how to improve their coding, wanted to update their skills or worked as programmers wanted to share their love for that by sharing tips and tricks? Anyone wanting to use the code tags this board provides? Don't be shy! Don't be inhibited by the presence of game developers around! They probably still store data in comma-separated text files

I focus on Microsoft technology, VB6 (migrating legacy code pays more bills than you can imagine!), VB.NET, C# in both .NET framework and .NET Core, Java and Javascript stuff (front and back-end, both pure and with frameworks). I also code in Python at home. Plus have a pretty extensive background in design and testing. Anyone?

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

I would imagine there are a lot of people into programming either professionally in their jobs or as a hobby/higher level education.

It is just by their nature as 90% introverts a lot won't be bothered in initiating a conversation or might just have other things going on. Having said that I think you are on to something and we should get another programming and development thread going.

Tesseract get in this thread and share your wisdom!

 

[cormack12]

Dabbled with a lot but only really persisted with

C++
Javascript
Java
Angular
VC++
SQL (MS, PostgreSQL, mySQL)

Some CSharp and Swift.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

I should be learning Python, but ironically since working from home I haven't had the motivation. I really need to get back on it...

 

[Tesseract]

i'm working on stuff for the ue4 thread, knee deep in code and blood

here's some resources to ignite things, the unholy trinity (id software / valve / epic)

Spoiler: ~

Notepad++

notepad-plus-plus.org

Visual Studio Preview

Be the first to access the future of Visual Studio 2022. Get the preview today and try out new features not yet released in Visual Studio

visualstudio.microsoft.com

The most powerful real-time 3D creation tool

Whatever your vision, bring it to life with Unreal Engine: the world's most advanced real-time 3D creation tool. Join our community of developers and get started today.

www.unrealengine.com

Unity Real-Time Development Platform | 3D, 2D, VR & AR Engine

Create and grow real-time 3D games, apps, and experiences for entertainment, film, automotive, architecture, and more. Get started with Unity today.

unity.com

Khan Academy | Free Online Courses, Lessons & Practice

Learn for free about math, art, computer programming, economics, physics, chemistry, biology, medicine, finance, history, and more. Khan Academy is a nonprofit with the mission of providing a free, world-class education for anyone, anywhere.

www.khanacademy.org

Learn to Code - for Free | Codecademy

Learn the technical skills to get the job you want. Join over 50 million people choosing Codecademy to start a new career (or advance in their current one).

www.codecademy.com

Mathwords A to Z

---

www.mathwords.com

GitHub - id-Software/DOOM: DOOM Open Source Release

DOOM Open Source Release. Contribute to id-Software/DOOM development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

GitHub - id-Software/Quake: Quake GPL Source Release

Quake GPL Source Release. Contribute to id-Software/Quake development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

GitHub - ValveSoftware/halflife: Half-Life 1 engine based games

Half-Life 1 engine based games. Contribute to ValveSoftware/halflife development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

SDK Installation - Valve Developer Community

developer.valvesoftware.com

Source 2 - Valve Developer Community

developer.valvesoftware.com

 

[ReyBrujo]

I should be learning Python, but ironically since working from home I haven't had the motivation. I really need to get back on it...

I know that feeling, I used to commute for an hour and a half and would entertain myself watching courses and reading books. Now that I have been at home for 4 months (our quarantine began on March 20 but I had taken a month-long vacation just before that) I have barely read anything. Even bought a Kindle and filled it with the books I bought from Humble Bundle, Manning, Packt and some other places

here's some resources to ignite things, the unholy trinity (id software / valve / epic)

Thanks for that. I used to try my hand in the late 90s with a community-made library called Allegro but realized it just wasn't working for me. Back then I mostly coded in C with some C++ which I had learned by reading the source code of a friends' 3D plotter, I hadn't even heard about the gang of four's design patterns nor unit testing or TDD
Uncle Bob had yet to add the "S" to the SOLID principles.

I'll share Roy Osherove's free bundle about TDD (which has bad quality video and audio but got lots of good information you can also find in his The Art of Unit Testing book). As for sites where you can study programming for free try FreeCodeCamp and CodeCombat. Finally for those who are into katas to train you can try AIZU, POJ, SPOJ, they let you upload your code to see if you managed to get the solution right.

Who knows, if the thread picks up speed we may even try some exercises (say, TDD one post at a time each with their own programming language).

 

[FreedomOfSpeech]

Where muh asm heroes at!

mov eax, 0x0539

 

[ReyBrujo]

Where muh asm heroes at!

mov eax, 0x0539

You know, I used to use SoftIce and w32dasm to debug shareware programs, find the places where checks for keys were done, and replace those jmp to nop (0x90). Oh, those days when just pressing Ctrl+D would bring the debugger and you could edit the code directly

Cracking software is bad guys, but it has taught me a great deal and it's one of the things I'm most proud of. I started pretty late since I got my computer in '97 or '98 but I remember reading +ORC tutorials, then I (tried to read) Michael Abrash's Black Book but didn't understand it at all, I knew the assembly but missed all the maths behind it That's one of the reasons I never pursued game programming, I'm just not good with maths.

 

[BadBurger]

I routinely work with C# and PowerShell, Javascript on occasion. I used to do light web dev so I am efficient enough in PHP, Java, MySQL, and MS SQL.

I even need to do BASH scripting Perl on concussion for a few things - but that's like twice a year at best, and usually just making modifications to existing stuff.

 

[MaestroMike]

Is it possible to blow up a computer with a program ??

 

[Tesseract]

Is it possible to blow up a computer with a program ??

 

[MaestroMike]

I knew some kid years ago that told me he would walk by people and was able to steal their credit card info with some kind of magnetic device or something and he would buy stuff but ended up stopping because it was getting too hot. Was he bullsh!ting me or is that possible ?

 

[FreedomOfSpeech]

Is it possible to blow up a computer with a program ??

Some programs sure try.

Looking at TLOU2 and DMC5 in particular.

 

[Tesseract]

I knew some kid years ago that told me he would walk by people and was able to steal their credit card info with some kind of magnetic device or something and he would buy stuff but ended up stopping because it was getting too hot. Was he bullsh!ting me or is that possible ?

that's possible

 

[ReyBrujo]

Is it possible to blow up a computer with a program ??

Spoiler: Old story about xf86config

Back in 1998-1999 we had to install a Linux distro as part of a college assignment. We bought a 6-CD pack that had RedHat 6, SUSE, Slackware, Debian (a 2-CD set I think) and something else. We met at this guy's house since he had a spare hd to install Slackware. After connecting everything we started the installation and reached the part where you had to configure the video card with xf86config, an application that would create the XF86Config file. And dang, it asked some odd questions like video memory, video card resolution, and specify monitor vertical and horizontal refresh for every resolution you wanted it to support.

​

When you started it it said you had to be very careful because it could damage your video card or your monitor beyond repair (!)

So we saved the configuration, launched the X system with startx and it worked, we had (primitive) graphics but they were there. After a while someone mentioned he smelled smoke, someone else mentioned that yes, he also did, so we unplugged the computer. It was a neighbor who was burning some leaves

I doubt it's possible nowadays to "blow up" a computer, but I know I was hit with Chernobyl which forced me to get a new motherboard.

I knew some kid years ago that told me he would walk by people and was able to steal their credit card info with some kind of magnetic device or something and he would buy stuff but ended up stopping because it was getting too hot. Was he bullsh!ting me or is that possible ?

In theory you could copy the information from RFID chips in (contactless) credit cards from a certain distance (in 2009 at DefCon someone made a sniffer that would extract info from any RFID tag near it, snapping a picture when information was captured, he had to destroy the data since it could have sniffed FBI agents' tags). However information is encrypted so you would need to first break that encryption which I doubt is trivial. You can also copy the information from the magnetic band but doing it from a distance... never heard of that

I routinely work with C# and PowerShell, Javascript on occasion. I used to do light web dev so I am efficient enough in PHP, Java, MySQL, and MS SQL.

I'm really curious regarding PowerShell. Would like learning it but the fact that quite a lot of stuff is Windows-exclusive kind of turns me off (especially when programming in netcore under Linux).

 

[BadBurger]

I'm really curious regarding PowerShell. Would like learning it but the fact that quite a lot of stuff is Windows-exclusive kind of turns me off (especially when programming in netcore under Linux).

PowerShell is extremely simple. It deals mostly with cmdlets that are well documented, and third-party snap-ins which are just more .NET. It's very powerful and effective for IT use and automation between systems, but I wouldn't try to build any serious app using it.

As far as pipelines and logic and everything goes, if you use Linux at all that will all be almost the same.

Edit: oh, and it's entirely supported on Linux now. With Azure that's the way Microsoft is heading anyway

 

[Revoh]

I work as a devops engineer so I write lots of Terraform for managing our infrastructure. Also Bash. I'd like to start learning Python soon.

 

[AV]

Don't develop for Teams. It's horrible.

It's not really, it's just that their documentation is absolute fucking dogshit and I'm salty about it.

 

[quickwhips]

I write alot of powershell. Like its became my go to thing over the last 2 years.

 

[supernova8]

I've tried to get into programming dozens of times and every time have stopped because I found it too dull. I'm probably just not suited to it or something. I think it was the realisation that even a very primitive looking website (that looks like it's from the 90s) takes a surprising amount of code to create.

I lost the motivation to go on after the second video of a HTML course.

 

[AV]

I've tried to get into programming dozens of times and every time have stopped because I found it too dull. I'm probably just not suited to it or something. I think it was the realisation that even a very primitive looking website (that looks like it's from the 90s) takes a surprising amount of code to create.

I lost the motivation to go on after the second video of a HTML course.

It is dull. You have to be a turbodork to actually find the coding part exciting. What's exciting is the cool shit that comes out of it.

HTML is technically programming, but not really. It's markup, all you're doing is telling a computer what to display where. You should try a bit of Javascript instead. Rather than just seeing different colours appear on a screen you'll actually write some logic and watch a computer execute it for you.

 

[supernova8]

It is dull. You have to be a turbodork to actually find the coding part exciting. What's exciting is the cool shit that comes out of it.

HTML is technically programming, but not really. It's markup, all you're doing is telling a computer what to display where. You should try a bit of Javascript instead. Rather than just seeing different colours appear on a screen you'll actually write some logic and watch a computer execute it for you.

Yeah my current job is in e-commerce but I'm more on the project management side than technical. I know I should know some of stuff so that I can manage/harangue the vendors when they do something stupid but I don't know where to start. I'll look into Javascript, though thanks!

 

[AV]

Yeah my current job is in e-commerce but I'm more on the project management side than technical. I know I should know some of stuff so that I can manage/harangue the vendors when they do something stupid but I don't know where to start. I'll look into Javascript, though thanks!

JS is just a really nice starting point because it works in browser and it's so easy and quick to write without having to deal with all the bullshit of "heavier" coding languages. Like, you can insert the following into Notepad, save it as test.html and open it in Chrome and see it work immediately. Took 2 minutes and it's already way more interesting seeing what's going on than a bunch of paragraph tags.

<html><body><p id='pTest'></p></body></html>
<script type='text/javascript'>
var strName = prompt("What is your name?");
document.getElementById('pTest').textContent = 'Hi, ' + strName + '!';
</script>

Hell, better yet, https://jsfiddle.net/ lets you mess around with JS without even opening notepad.

 

[ReyBrujo]

Ironically it could be simpler to build a web server with node.js than a web page with plain html. When learning you need to decide how abstract, how concrete you want to be. Nowadays nobody learns assembler (which is virtually one or two steps above what the computer understand, assembler → hexadecimal code → binary code), everyone chooses a higher level language (one step above assembler like C/C++, or two or more steps above assembler like Java, C#, Python, etc).

When writing HTML code, though, you always go to the "bare-bones". Even 25 years after, you still code in "assembler" when talking about web pages, if you want to see it that way. So it's as dull as it was 25 years ago, only that certain tags were deprecated, certain others appeared, and all the while new interesting things appeared like Javascript and CSS. But yes, if you watch a tutorial the first lessons are likely to be the same as they were 25 years ago.

You should try a bit of Javascript instead. Rather than just seeing different colours appear on a screen you'll actually write some logic and watch a computer execute it for you.

The problem with Javascript is that you get even a duller answer, a 2 when you write something like "1 + 1". Since he was trying to learn HTML I guess he'd be more interested in learning something visual, front-end, instead of just pure back-end logic. In the end you'll eventually have to learn HTML.

 

[jshackles]

In a past life I was a programmer. I started in QBASIC and eventually migrated to Visual Basic when Windows became a thing. From there I branched off into all kinds of other languages: Javascript, Perl, Python, PHP, and C# are my usual goto HA! languages these days.

These days I work as a sysadmin though, so the only real "programming" I do is in Powershell and the occasional batch script.

 

[ROMhack]

Will join this thread. I'm more interested in design but work a lot with front-end, however you want to describe it (I'm not calling HTML 'programming' either).

I usually spend a few hours after work learning/playing around. Would love to eventually become a front-end developer.

 

[AV]

The problem with Javascript is that you get even a duller answer, a 2 when you write something like "1 + 1". Since he was trying to learn HTML I guess he'd be more interested in learning something visual, front-end, instead of just pure back-end logic. In the end you'll eventually have to learn HTML.

True that it's not exactly riveting, but if he was aiming to do some "programming" and started on HTML it could be that he was expecting to write something that would actually execute some sort of logic rather than just making a red box appear. But yeah, HMTL is kinda unavoidable.

 

[ROMhack]

True that it's not exactly riveting, but if he was aiming to do some "programming" and started on HTML it could be that he was expecting to write something that would actually execute some sort of logic rather than just making a red box appear. But yeah, HMTL is kinda unavoidable.

Seconded. It helps you understand how to manipulate the DOM when working with web content.

 

[hariseldon]

I know that feeling, I used to commute for an hour and a half and would entertain myself watching courses and reading books. Now that I have been at home for 4 months (our quarantine began on March 20 but I had taken a month-long vacation just before that) I have barely read anything. Even bought a Kindle and filled it with the books I bought from Humble Bundle, Manning, Packt and some other places

That's your mistake. If you buy a shitload of books you'll learn nothing. There's too many of them and they'll sit on a shelf. As a programmer here's my advice. Feel free to disregard it but code has been kind to me and given me a lifestyle I'm pretty happy with.

First, forget careers (that comes later), just pick a thing you want to build and ask some developers what tools they use for the job. I personally build websites with a Spring Framework back end (in Java) and an Angular front end (uses Typescript which is like Javascript but less shit) but for a newbie I'd suggest something easier like PHP. Node is all well and good but a newbie will have a nightmare setting up the tools. For game dev, if it's 2D you might want to have a crack at the free edition of Game Maker - it's not the best code in the world but it's a nice intro to the world of programming.

Having picked a project and tools, next go find a general purpose guide to that language/toolset. For fuck's sake avoid Packt. Their stuff is shite - outsourced to India with bugger-all quality checking. It's shovelware made for Humble Bundles. Manning is better. For learning a language though you can't go wrong with a SAMS Teach Yourself book. They tend to be well-written and give you a good base from which to jump off into specifics of different frameworks or the wider ecosystem of your chosen language. Make all the simple shitty little projects the book asks you to do. Making is learning.

Make some small projects - have shit go wrong and use stackoverflow to find the solution.

Be aware that knowing everything is impossible. Back when I started professionally in 2000 it was a lot easier to get by with just PHP, HTML, CSS, MySQL and a bit of Javascript. These days you need to learn a fucktonne of complex frameworks and things that plug into them, build tools, etc. It's much fucking harder now for newbies. Don't be discouraged though.

 

[ReyBrujo]

That's your mistake. If you buy a shitload of books you'll learn nothing. There's too many of them and they'll sit on a shelf.

lol, could be. I probably ended about 15 books last year, not bad considering I only read during commute time. Once you learn a topic you can pretty much skip examples and just focus on the things that the previous books didn't teach you. Plus it helps letting your brain do the reading instead of your lips. I can go through any C#, Python, tdd or unit testing book and stop only at the things I don't quite understand at first glance, highlight them and at the end of the book review them to see if I still don't understand them. Same applies to courses or videos, I watch them at 2x.

Once you know the topic your brain can pretty much anticipate what will come allowing you to move forward at a faster speed.

However it's true that not everyone can read as fast and that having a lot of books is detrimental because you'd likely be jumping from one to another trying to compare. It's much faster to pick one, read it to the end, then get another and just read new topics or topics you didn't quite grasp with the previous book.

For people starting from zero I recommend a short (but updated) video course rather than books, that way they get the bare minimum to get something running and decide whether they liked that or would prefer something else. Books tend to be obscenely slow.

Be aware that knowing everything is impossible.

This is the key. You learn what you need in order to program daily, the rest you pick up while working either by asking co-workers, by searching SO, by reading books or watching tutorials.

 

[doboy]

If you're looking to get into the nitty gritty of programming I'd recommend checking out the Handmade Hero series. It documents an old school game dev, sometimes controversial, making a game from scratch. Sometimes other programmers will come on like Jonathan Blow and talk about their projects which is cool. I've found it to be one of, if not the most, useful learning resources.

But if you really just want to make websites or something, then you might want to steer clear.

 

[MaestroMike]

Ruby on Rails Tutorial was pretty interesting to go through when I was trying to learn some web application development. It goes step by step.

Ruby on Rails Tutorial

Since its initial publication in 2010, the Ruby on Rails Tutorial has been one of the leading introductions to web development. In this bestselling tutorial, you’ll learn how to develop and deploy real, industrial-strength web applications with Ruby on Rails, the open-source web framework that...

www.railstutorial.org

I think they used to have it for free on the site, but I don't think so anymore.

 

[StormCell]

I'm a software dev. I mostly prefer C#, but lately I'm deferring to Python for smaller services, etc. I work in a lot of different languages, though, but wouldn't claim to be very knowledgeable of them. I mostly build and update this web application and all of its underlying microservices. This includes deployment into the cloud, standing up all required cloud infrastructure, and we're also using Kubernetes for running our containerized services. Oh, and MySQL databases.

From one month to the next, there is always something new to learn and employ.

But I wanted to say hi to Dev GAF and introduce myself. I originally chose Computer Science because, obviously, I was into video games and for some reason I thought being an actual developer would mean I would have say into the design and mechanics of video games. I then graduated with my degree and got a real job writing software solutions and eventually figured out that actual developers don't really design software or make many of the decisions about how something will look or how it will move or react.

Additionally, the reports of grueling work hours, neverending crunches and such convinced me that I'm not really into making video games.

 

[ReyBrujo]

actual developers don't really design software or make many of the decisions about how something will look or how it will move or react.

Unless you join a small company I'm in such a company so I design and develop. Technically we mob design (we are 8 developers and a trainee plus four testers). Of course, we have a graphic designer because personally I'd leave it all looking as a console application.

In other news, Humble released a new Python bundle which includes 6 months of PyCharm for USD 25 (plus some access to solved exercises). They offered a similar one last year, I waited until the last week of December to claim the pycharm key so this comes at a perfect time (although it only works for new accounts).

 

[hariseldon]

Unless you join a small company I'm in such a company so I design and develop. Technically we mob design (we are 8 developers and a trainee plus four testers). Of course, we have a graphic designer because personally I'd leave it all looking as a console application.

I'd agree with this - there's a lot to be said for being in a small company, or better still a decent-sized company that has a small dev team. I'm in the latter boat and get to pretty much decide everything (it helps that I'm the boss, answerable directly to the owner of the company). I'm a little more design-oriented than the average dev so I do tend to put the work into making stuff look pretty which saves the company a few quid on hiring designers. I had a team of 4 but covid cost me 1 and the other 2 are on furlough so now I'm doing it all but better that than unemployed.

 

[eot]

I’m learning verilog at the moment and not super excited about it.

 

[supernova8]

JS is just a really nice starting point because it works in browser and it's so easy and quick to write without having to deal with all the bullshit of "heavier" coding languages. Like, you can insert the following into Notepad, save it as test.html and open it in Chrome and see it work immediately. Took 2 minutes and it's already way more interesting seeing what's going on than a bunch of paragraph tags.

<html><body><p id='pTest'></p></body></html>
<script type='text/javascript'>
var strName = prompt("What is your name?");
document.getElementById('pTest').textContent = 'Hi, ' + strName + '!';
</script>

Hell, better yet, https://jsfiddle.net/ lets you mess around with JS without even opening notepad.

Yeah my idea of coding a website was more like making one of those compound interest calculators built into a website. I wouldn't feel very excited by building a static page that doesn't do anything.

I was thinking I needed to learn something like Python to work with the different application level stuff within our e-commerce site but apparently the vendors don't give access to any of the code, we only get to see the analytics screens. To be honest I have no idea what I just wrote. Anyway I'm gonna watch a few videos on Javascript and see if I can ease myself into it (that's what she said).

 

[hariseldon]

Yeah my idea of coding a website was more like making one of those compound interest calculators built into a website. I wouldn't feel very excited by building a static page that doesn't do anything.

I was thinking I needed to learn something like Python to work with the different application level stuff within our e-commerce site but apparently the vendors don't give access to any of the code, we only get to see the analytics screens. To be honest I have no idea what I just wrote. Anyway I'm gonna watch a few videos on Javascript and see if I can ease myself into it (that's what she said).

A couple of caveats with javascript:
1. It's absolutely fine for doing really basic stuff - you can do it without a framework although cross-browser compatibility (fucking Internet Explorer) can be a pain. Sooner or later though you're going to have to dig into the world of frameworks and package management and all the other bullshit. The ecosystem is wilder than you'd find in the world of Java.
2. Javascript isn't strongly typed and teaches you bad habits. Be careful.
3. You'd be well served by looking at TypeScript, which makes Javascript stop sucking. The downside is that using it requires using some tools which aren't particularly beginner-friendly.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I've been studying JavaScript as my first real honest attempt at learning programming using the book "Head First JavaScript Programming" and it's been a lot of fun. I've been trucking along through the book and learning a lot, but I'm getting in to how you can pass functions to functions and return functions from functions and this is the first time I feel like I'm not quite getting it. Going to keep plugging away at it and start working on a project of my own after this once I can think of something fun to do.

Once I have a decent grasp of JavaScript, I'm thinking about looking into learning some Python, too.

 

[Bogey]

I've tried to get into programming dozens of times and every time have stopped because I found it too dull. I'm probably just not suited to it or something. I think it was the realisation that even a very primitive looking website (that looks like it's from the 90s) takes a surprising amount of code to create.

I lost the motivation to go on after the second video of a HTML course.

One of the beautiful things about algorithms.
You wouldn't believe how extremely short efficient solutions to often very complex problems can be.

 

[ReyBrujo]

2. Javascript isn't strongly typed and teaches you bad habits. Be careful.

That wouldn't be a problem if people would first pick a programming fundamentals course which taught the basics. And it's one of the problems when talking with experienced programmers, they assume you know everything you should. They assume you know the difference between compilers and interpreters, strong and weak, dynamic and static languages, etc.

There are quite a lot of things programmers-wannabe should learn before trying a particular language:

• What's hardware, software
• What's an operative system, base applications, user applications
• What's a programming language, difference between compiler, interpreter and virtual machine
• 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th generation languages (maybe some history along it)
• Bit, byte, hexadecimal, base conversions
• Programming paradigms, imperative, declarative, object-oriented, functional, logic
• Mathematical logic, operators, propositions, boolean algebra, expressions and variables
• Inference, modus ponendo ponens (P → Q)
• Problem solving (input, processing, output), algorithms (sequentiality, atomicity, abstraction), algorithm representations (natural language, pseudocode, vertical and horizontal flowcharts, programming languages)
• Programming or design time, compile time, runtime
• Structured programming (sequence, selection, iteration, subroutines), simple, double, compound, nested, multiple conditionals, assignment, counters and accumulators
• Variables, constants, data types (boolean, date, float, double, integer, string, etc), declaration vs definition, array, matrix, lists, queues, stacks
• Type system (static vs dynamic, strong vs weak)
• Functions, parameters, return value
• Data structures (lists, queues, stacks), selection sort, insertion sort, exchange sort (bubble sort), linear search, binary search
• Object-oriented paradigm, class vs instance vs object, method, attribute, constructors and destructors
• Abstraction, encapsulation, access modifiers (public, internal or package, private), inheritance (single, multiple)
• Operator overloading, function overloading
• Interface vs abstract class, internal or private classes, casting, polymorphism.
  

If you learn all that you will be able to learn any programming language in a matter of months (note that learning the whole environment which includes extra libraries and frameworks to use in certain situations will take you more though). However, most people are impatient and can't stand spending 4 or 6 months without writing a single line of code

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That wouldn't be a problem if people would first pick a programming fundamentals course which taught the basics. And it's one of the problems when talking with experienced programmers, they assume you know everything you should. They assume you know the difference between compilers and interpreters, strong and weak, dynamic and static languages, etc.

There are quite a lot of things programmers-wannabe should learn before trying a particular language:

• What's hardware, software
• What's an operative system, base applications, user applications
• What's a programming language, difference between compiler, interpreter and virtual machine
• 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th generation languages (maybe some history along it)
• Bit, byte, hexadecimal, base conversions
• Programming paradigms, imperative, declarative, object-oriented, functional, logic
• Mathematical logic, operators, propositions, boolean algebra, expressions and variables
• Inference, modus ponendo ponens (P → Q)
• Problem solving (input, processing, output), algorithms (sequentiality, atomicity, abstraction), algorithm representations (natural language, pseudocode, vertical and horizontal flowcharts, programming languages)
• Programming or design time, compile time, runtime
• Structured programming (sequence, selection, iteration, subroutines), simple, double, compound, nested, multiple conditionals, assignment, counters and accumulators
• Variables, constants, data types (boolean, date, float, double, integer, string, etc), declaration vs definition, array, matrix, lists, queues, stacks
• Type system (static vs dynamic, strong vs weak)
• Functions, parameters, return value
• Data structures (lists, queues, stacks), selection sort, insertion sort, exchange sort (bubble sort), linear search, binary search
• Object-oriented paradigm, class vs instance vs object, method, attribute, constructors and destructors
• Abstraction, encapsulation, access modifiers (public, internal or package, private), inheritance (single, multiple)
• Operator overloading, function overloading
• Interface vs abstract class, internal or private classes, casting, polymorphism.

If you learn all that you will be able to learn any programming language in a matter of months (note that learning the whole environment which includes extra libraries and frameworks to use in certain situations will take you more though). However, most people are impatient and can't stand spending 4 or 6 months without writing a single line of code

I already know quite a bit of that stuff, but do you have any recommendations in terms of courses/books for those kind of programming fundamentals? Seems like most courses take the approach of jumping straight in to coding and teaching fundamental concepts as you go.

 

[ReyBrujo]

I already know quite a bit of that stuff, but do you have any recommendations in terms of courses/books for those kind of programming fundamentals? Seems like most courses take the approach of jumping straight in to coding and teaching fundamental concepts as you go.

They take that approach because nowadays people are impatient and want immediate feedback just like a dog wants a reward after performing a trick. If they were told that they would be programming in pseudocode and flowcharts for six months they'd just give up.

If you already got some experience you could try youtube or wikibooks. The best introductory courses are language agnostic but they are hard to find.

 

[supernova8]

A couple of caveats with javascript:
1. It's absolutely fine for doing really basic stuff - you can do it without a framework although cross-browser compatibility (fucking Internet Explorer) can be a pain. Sooner or later though you're going to have to dig into the world of frameworks and package management and all the other bullshit. The ecosystem is wilder than you'd find in the world of Java.
2. Javascript isn't strongly typed and teaches you bad habits. Be careful.
3. You'd be well served by looking at TypeScript, which makes Javascript stop sucking. The downside is that using it requires using some tools which aren't particularly beginner-friendly.

I'll be totally honest. Most of what you just told me went way over my head. I think what I'm gonna do is to speak my boss (who has an IT/system integration background) to see what he thinks would be the most immediately useful for my job. I'm probably better off learning something I'm going to be able to make use of fairly quickly or I'll lose direction/motivation/both.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

Where muh asm heroes at!

mov eax, 0x0539

This turns the backcolor on an Amiga to black.

move #$000,$dff180

 

[ThatGamingDude]

I'm actually want to move away from the server side and get more into automation/dev ops

Been playing with Python, PowerShell, and getting myself more familiar with bash

I know a couple of companies getting hot and bothered about Node.JS but I do really have a practical project to throw at it
EDIT: Should probably say I'm pretty decent at batch and PS is something I'm familiar with but wouldn't sit me down to really build out something. More of just "OMG WHY DID YOU MOVE IT FROM NOT BEING CONTROLLED IN POWERSHELL TO ONLY BEING CONTROLLED IN POWERSHELL WTF STOP FUCKING WITH MY RDP GATEWAYS"

 

[infinitys_7th]

I don't do a lot of "real" programming - most of my work is in a PLC (industrial controller) with ladder logic and function blocks visual language (although I've learned most of the syntax behind the graphical representation), with occasional VB to supplement any deficits in the built-in functions. I do work in two data historian/visualizing systems that pull from it as well, with setting up tags (variables in the PLC program) and communication. I've had to learn about network communication when addressing PLC issues and historian communication, but I'm far from an expert. Most issues with a PLC come down to a loose wire, shielding issue, or a bad card anyway.

I also know some batch scripting to go along with some simple automation (change my default printer to X when I connect to Y network, update this spreadsheet and email it at 7:00AM each day, etc.).

Beyond that, I've made a few simple websites and games but I've never really focused on learning a language outside of the VB implementations in different applications (the PLC work, Minitab, Office) and whatever I need or want to play with at the time.

 

[Revoh]

I'm actually want to move away from the server side and get more into automation/dev ops

Been playing with Python, PowerShell, and getting myself more familiar with bash

I know a couple of companies getting hot and bothered about Node.JS but I do really have a practical project to throw at it
EDIT: Should probably say I'm pretty decent at batch and PS is something I'm familiar with but wouldn't sit me down to really build out something. More of just "OMG WHY DID YOU MOVE IT FROM NOT BEING CONTROLLED IN POWERSHELL TO ONLY BEING CONTROLLED IN POWERSHELL WTF STOP FUCKING WITH MY RDP GATEWAYS"

If you want to move into devops I'll suggest you learn Linux and specially being comfortable in the shell. I've been breathing this stuff daily on my job for the past 8 months coming from a strong Windows/VMWare/on-prem infrastructure land to now Linux & cloud stuff, I wouldn't go to managing Windows systems ever again, not even if it pays double now.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

If you want to move into devops I'll suggest you learn Linux and specially being comfortable in the shell. I've been breathing this stuff daily on my job for the past 8 months coming from a strong Windows/VMWare/on-prem infrastructure land to now Linux & cloud stuff, I wouldn't go to managing Windows systems not even if it pays double now.

Essentially the same boat
I'm where I'm at now to get an introduction to prod environment Linux farms

I just don't have any practical project to toss up other than me piddling around with tools for myself

 

[Revoh]

I just don't have any practical project to toss up other than me piddling around with tools for myself

Here's a mini project to get your feet wet in Infrastructure as Code, a huge pillar of devops:

create a free AWS account and use that to deploy 1 EC2 VM running Linux
But do that using Terraform, and use Packer to build the AMI that gets deployed into the EC2 VM
The VM will need a network, security groups, firewall rules (at the cloud-mgmt level), etc. Bonus points if you use Terraform to also deploy this.
Then use Ansible to configure the server as a Docker host (you can also do this right in the AMI but do it separately so it can teach you why Config Management is important)

If you do that you'll get roughly 50% of what devops is at scale, then you'll learn about the other half: monitoring, logging, CI/CD, container orchestration, etc