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Do you believe Death is the end?

Death ...


  • Total voters
    201

lock2k

Banned
Eternity may be long, but God has it planned out, so his followers will never get bored. Think of it like a new video game coming out every week, and it’s always a 10 out 10 game.... and the game takes place in a super advanced holodeck. I know, for me personally, that would keep me busy for a couple 100 years, at least. Then I’d move on to something else that’s new and exciting. The flow of entertainment will be without end.

Athesism is boring. You die. The end. The religious option has far more creative opportunities. It’s also super easy to be religious. I’m always suprised, so many people choose to resist it.

I like you way of thought but I don't believe in the afterlife.

In fact, I don't think being religious is easy. It never was for me, and it still isn't. I never felt anything, I just can't bring myself to believe in anything, nothing happens. And the idea of nothingness to me is comforting. I don't know. It's not a matter of resisting, it's a matter of how we are wired.
 

Stere

Member
If consciousness is a product of the brain, once you're dead, it's over forever, no afterlife or reincarnation.
It's sad but that's the reality
 

mango drank

Member
It's funny, because people who take those comical doses of LSD/hallucinogens all pretty much report the same thing.

Psychedelics are incapable of killing you, but when people are approaching Ego Death, they all seem to attribute the feeling to being indistinguishable from real death.....because for all intents and purposes it is. And what follows is a transcendent feeling of having no borders and being one with the universe.
Oh yeah, I've heard Joe Rogan talking about this stuff. I didn't get the idea from him, though. I've been thinking about variations on it for over a decade. And the hardest drug I've ever done is just pot edibles--though still had some trippy visions.

Meanwhile:
 

lukilladog

Member
Eternity may be long, but God has it planned out, so his followers will never get bored. Think of it like a new video game coming out every week, and it’s always a 10 out 10 game.... and the game takes place in a super advanced holodeck. I know, for me personally, that would keep me busy for a couple 100 years, at least. Then I’d move on to something else that’s new and exciting. The flow of entertainment will be without end.

Athesism is boring. You die. The end. The religious option has far more creative opportunities. It’s also super easy to be religious. I’m always suprised, so many people choose to resist it.

Your motivational and pleasure neurotransmitters stay here when you die, you´ll get bored to death.
 

Tesseract

Banned
you wake up from the simulation

doubt it, unless you got something to inject yourself into

death is the end, and it's forever

all your information will be destroyed as tehom consumes your memories in a perpetually fading (entropic) light that grows cold and timeless as the universe stands still

'for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.'

cry about it, run from it, deny it, but you will be pulled under the earth and never return
 
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Tesseract

Banned
It's only the beginning, where's my Kool aid?

death will take that too

giphy.gif


jk enjoy your eternal simuverse

giphy.gif
 

LordKasual

Banned
cower or cringe if you want, this vid is the truth



I don't really see how this applies to life and death

the context of this was Littlefinger explaining the core difference in the way he thinks to Varys that explains why he's such an evil cunt. One man does ambitious/terrible things for the betterment of society....the other does it purely for himself. But both (around this point) were about equally powerful.

this is perfect when discussing the acquisition of power and the kind of mindset needed to succeed at it, which rings ABSOLUTELY true for the majority of characters in Game of Thrones because that's the kind of life they're living. But not so much for this conversation.

Oh yeah, I've heard Joe Rogan talking about this stuff. I didn't get the idea from him, though. I've been thinking about variations on it for over a decade. And the hardest drug I've ever done is just pot edibles--though still had some trippy visions.

Meanwhile:

Related, and i find this interpretation absolutely fascinating:



This is relevant to understanding life/death but I also think this is going to become an even more important topic as we approach General AI.

If you strip away the idea that our consciousness is something "special", then the idea of life/death starts to lose alot of its meaning.

I think that's what people who achieve Ego Death experience at the point when the concept of "self" or "me" dissolves.

Eternity may be long, but God has it planned out, so his followers will never get bored. Think of it like a new video game coming out every week, and it’s always a 10 out 10 game.... and the game takes place in a super advanced holodeck. I know, for me personally, that would keep me busy for a couple 100 years, at least. Then I’d move on to something else that’s new and exciting. The flow of entertainment will be without end.

Athesism is boring. You die. The end. The religious option has far more creative opportunities. It’s also super easy to be religious. I’m always suprised, so many people choose to resist it.

Eternity, oblivion, timelessness......it's unfathomably short. I've experienced it at LEAST 14 billion years of it, and so have you. In fact i can't even remember it.

I think it's comforting to believe there's a place after you die that will be amazing 24/7 for eternity, but i don't understand how people believe this could possibly be the case.

If you exist for eternity, and enjoy it, then you couldnt possibly as a human.
 
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Tesseract

Banned
I don't really see how this applies to life and death

the context of this was Littlefinger explaining the core difference in the way he thinks to Varys that explains why he's such an evil cunt. One man does ambitious/terrible things for the betterment of society....the other does it purely for himself. But both (around this point) were about equally powerful.

this is perfect when discussing the acquisition of power and the kind of mindset needed to succeed at it, which rings ABSOLUTELY true for the majority of characters in Game of Thrones because that's the kind of life they're living. But not so much for this conversation.



Related, and i find this interpretation absolutely fascinating:



This is relevant to understanding life/death but I also think this is going to become an even more important topic as we approach General AI.

If you strip away the idea that our consciousness is something "special", then the idea of life/death starts to lose alot of its meaning.

I think that's what people who achieve Ego Death experience at the point when the concept of "self" or "me" dissolves.



Eternity, oblivion, timelessness......it's unfathomably short. I've experienced it at LEAST 14 billion years of it, and so have you. In fact i can't even remember it.

I think it's comforting to believe there's a place after you die that will be amazing 24/7 for eternity, but i don't understand how people believe this could possibly be the case.

If you exist for eternity, and enjoy it, then you couldnt possibly as a human.


you are a fool if you think it has nothing to do with death, lols

grats on the contextual y cursory reading tho
 
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Bolivar687

Banned
I meekly hope in the promise of the resurrection. This dogma calcified during the miraculous Maccabbean revolt, the impossible successes of which have theological reverberations that recur back to reinforce this concept

There's also too many documented incidents about experiences with the afterlife. Along with Eucharistic miracles, mass-witnessed Marian apparitions, intercessions like the Fulton Sheen case, this seems like a pretty safe bet, tbh.
 

Airola

Member
So, have you thought about this unshakable fact? Do you actively try not to think about it? What's your way of handling your own death?

Yes. When I was 11 years old I started to have heart problems and night after night, for years, I was afraid this is my last night. I wasn't really that afraid about myself but I was horrified by the thought that my parents would find me dead the next morning. Interestingly that managed to stop me from thinking I want to kill myself. So those real heart problems helped me to stop having early childhood suicidal thoughts.

Past few years I've been thinking about death more again, and at times the thoughts have horrified me at nights. An old friend of mine told me one day his heart just stopped beating and he was dead for a while until doctors brought him back. No reason for that was found. He has to use a machine to ensure his heart keeps pumping but no reason is still known why his heart is like that. That has brought me some memories of my old heart problems and made me think a lot of how everything could just suddenly end.

While my fears have still been more about the thought of my significant other having to find me dead, I've increasingly more started to think about the exact final moment for me, if I'm wide awake at that point. That there will be a moment where I take the last breath and there's nothing that can be done about it. It's tough to think how it would feel if there's nothing after that, to not even be nothing in nothingness. To not be even that. But it's also tough to think what it will be if there's something after this. We are accustomed to this kind of life and we usually think afterlife is in one way or another a bit like what this life is. But it pretty likely will be something completely different and will be that forever. And it's really hard to think this life will have to change into something completely different forever. It will be the same for me than it has been for people who lived 10,000 years ago. There will be no current world technology and the way of life but it will be something that has always been in common with all people everywhere all the time, and I don't know what that even can be like, and it's hurting my brain to try to figure it out.

The fact still is that no day that has gone by will be back, and every single second of our lives is one second less of our lives. And that is how it has been always and for everyone. There have been countless of people who have experienced the end already, and right at this very moment there are countless of people who are experiencing it. Some experience it peacefully, some experience it by surprise, some experience it in terror and pain. I can only wish that my end won't be looking at the ground approaching me with increasing speed, or me surrounded by water and having to take that final breath that will fill my lungs with water, or anticipating what a blade that's on my throat will feel like when it starts cutting into it. But the fact is that there are countless of people who have had deaths like that and who will have deaths like that. With every single person the actual moment of death, however, might've been a wonderful feeling. Or it might've not been. I've heard people tell about a feeling of warm embrace when they've died (and obviously later brought back to life by doctors), but not everyone who have experienced that have said anything about any warm embraces, so it either means that people can forget that or then that just really doesn't happen, or at least not to everyone.

Getting to live again after death doesn't feel that odd of a thing as if I've been able to become to sense myself out of nothing, it wouldn't be too surprising if it would happen again. If the conditions for something coming out from nothing are there eternally, then there is literally eternal time for this to happen again, and likely it would happen again. The only way there wouldn't be this possibility would be if there is something that deliberately makes this existence to happen and can deliberately not make it happen. And that would then imply there could be some other form of reality to pass on to.

However, were there an afterlife or not, the thought of this life having its final moment is inevitable and terrifying. Even if there is a Paradise we might to get into, it is still terrifying to think that this form of existence will have its total and ultimate end at some point. It kinda eases my mind to think that technically we do that every single night when we enter a dream world. At nights we live lives that are not the lives we live in this world. Maybe entering beyond this life through death will be kinda like entering a dream. Often we don't even know we are dreaming, but just live that life there even if it's something that couldn't even be possible by any logic. So maybe we enter the great beyond like that. We don't remember what happened before, but we are now in another reality without even really knowing that. But still........ anticipating the last second before all either becomes blank (even less than blank, but not even blank) or before we enter the eternal dream is a thing that sometimes can make it tough to fall asleep. The upside for that is that thinking about these things can be really entertaining when you don't have to try to fall asleep.
 

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
I like you way of thought but I don't believe in the afterlife.
Yeah, from my understanding and opinion, there is no afterlife. But there is consciousness and existence in some form. It is just not the same as life. That's what I believe, after doing extensive research on the subject.
 

lock2k

Banned
Yeah, from my understanding and opinion, there is no afterlife. But there is consciousness and existence in some form. It is just not the same as life. That's what I believe, after doing extensive research on the subject.

That's cool. Do you have materials about it? I'm curious!
 

Tesseract

Banned

with respect

you say that, then you go on to say neither can i claim the opposite, and further into we don't know

you had me at your first sentence / clause, negative claims about death are virtually impossible to distinguish
 

MadAnon

Member
You might aswell say "Rainbow farting unicorns exist on earth". Science can't prove they don't because we might not be able to perceive them. They exist and fart at different frequency but they are there. See where I'm going with this?

You might think it's stupid but I find afterlife a stupid concept. So where do you draw the line?
 
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You might aswell say "Rainbow farting unicorns exist on earth". Science can't prove they don't because we might not be able to perceive them. They exist and fart at different frequency but they are there. See where I'm going with this?

That's exactly the point, though: death and a hypothetical post-death persistence are part of what I call the 'limit of imagination' (I'm actually writing a little book about that atm). This LoI contains things/ideas that we can't perceive with our current scientific means but (might) exist nonetheless. A more worldly example would be the vision of bees: bees see in a whole different color spectrum, colors we can't perceive. We use these stylized images for when we try to highlight a possible 'bee view', but it's not actually what bees can see - and we can't. We can't imagine it either, because you can't imagine new colors. That puts it in the LoI. Death is the same, except we don't know if something persists. Thus we can only speculate.

That's where you have to make a choice: something persists - or doesn't. *IF* you side with the former, then per logical consequence, post-death persistence must be part of the LoI, because clearly we cannot imagine not to exist. And providing hard evidence for LoI elements is impossible.

Fwiw, your rainbow-farting unicorn might exist, too.
 

Tesseract

Banned
bees still exist in everyday life, which means our understanding of their color combinations can be mastered

ultraviolet blue and green is an adequate approximation, increasing precision / time

death is the end unless you have anything tangible that says otherwise
 

Airola

Member
Your motivational and pleasure neurotransmitters stay here when you die, you´ll get bored to death.

But wouldn't things that make you feel bored stay here too?


'for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.'

cry about it, run from it, deny it, but you will be pulled under the earth and never return

The physical you, yes.
But how about the spirit God breathed on the body to animate it? Where does that go? That can't turn into dust and that didn't come from dust.
 

Airola

Member
You might aswell say "Rainbow farting unicorns exist on earth". Science can't prove they don't because we might not be able to perceive them. They exist and fart at different frequency but they are there. See where I'm going with this?

You might think it's stupid but I find afterlife a stupid concept. So where do you draw the line?

Well, some line could be made in between concepts of a creator that has been talked about for thousands if not tens of thousands of years and a fart-unicorn idea someone came up with in an internet thread as an attempt to criticize religious ideas.

I mean, ideas come from somewhere. Two ideas that sound outlandish aren't equally outlandish depending on how they came to be. Like it or not, people have had visions and experiences of being in the presence of the ultimate creator of everything for thousands of years. It doesn't matter if those experiences are based on true reality but it does matter that those experiences are real. So far these rainbowfartunicorns and spaghetti monsters have all been ideas made to criticize another idea, instead of them being based on actual experiences.

The other one has odd experiences as the base, the other one hasn't. To me that's a clear line, so we could at least limit the discussion to legit ideas of a supernatural creator and leave these random concepts out from the discussion, because they do not have the same base and aren't comparable at all.
 
bees still exist in everyday life, which means our understanding of their color combinations can be mastered

ultraviolet blue and green is an adequate approximation, increasing precision / time

death is the end unless you have anything tangible that says otherwise

You still can't imagine what colors bees can see. Just like how you can't imagine to not exist.

I'm not making definitive statements besides these two facts.
 

Airola

Member
Bored as a vegetable is a figure of speech.

Ps.- And that´s not what we have been told by common religions.

The point of my initial post was to just say that the absence of pure joy and emotions doesn't mean boredom.
I mean, the other dude talked about getting the feeling of playing the best video games ever over and over again, and while your stance that emotions don't carry on along with you to that afterlife would make his view of joy obsolete and it would be logically ok from your point of view, you also went on to say that instead he'd be bored to death, which went against your own logic that just a moment ago was fine.

Vegetables came to the discussion afterwards.

Now that I've done enough nitpicking, to get back to hypothetical scenarios of the afterlife, I could imagine the emotionless state as pure calmness, which sounds pretty good too. So if there can't be joy and excitement, there can't be boredom and sadness either. So all that would remain is complete carefree calmness with zero ups and downs to any direction. Eternity wouldn't get boring ever, as opposed to what some here have feared it would be. Any desire for high joy peaks wouldn't exist anymore. Any fears for things getting boring wouldn't exist anymore. It would just be clear and calm existence.
 
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thoughts make man, i feel like we're sorta talking past each other here

bees see a broader band at much higher rates and uvl color combination filters have existed for decades

feynman lays out bee vision pretty well in his lecture series

You can explain how and why bees see other color spectrums. But you can't imagine the colors in concrete form.

Also I thought you meant in regards to existing. Because I'd really like to know how you can imagine to not exist. You can imagine not to be 'here', but then you'd still imagine to be some sort of observer/ghost or something like that. Not existing is unimaginable, just like imagining nothingness itself can't be imagined. Limit of imagination.
 

lukilladog

Member
The point of my initial post was to just say that the absence of pure joy and emotions doesn't mean boredom.
I mean, the other dude talked about getting the feeling of playing the best video games ever over and over again, and while your stance that emotions don't carry on along with you to that afterlife would make his view of joy obsolete and it would be logically ok from your point of view, you also went on to say that instead he'd be bored to death, which went against your own logic that just a moment ago was fine.

Vegetables came to the discussion afterwards.

Now that I've done enough nitpicking, to get back to hypothetical scenarios of the afterlife, I could imagine the emotionless state as pure calmness, which sounds pretty good too. So if there can't be joy and excitement, there can't be boredom and sadness either. So all that would remain is complete carefree calmness with zero ups and downs to any direction. Eternity wouldn't get boring ever, as opposed to what some here have feared it would be. Any desire for high joy peaks wouldn't exist anymore. Any fears for things getting boring wouldn't exist anymore. It would just be clear and calm existence.

Calmness is also a state of the brain, there are pills for it. Since all of your feelings are demonstrably a function of your brain and you can lose them when it suffers damage, you will have to describe the afterlife experience without them... although it starts to sound like plain death to me.
 

Tesseract

Banned
Calmness is also a state of the brain, there are pills for it. Since all of your feelings are demonstrably a function of your brain and you can lose them when it suffers damage, you will have to describe the afterlife experience without them... although it starts to sound like plain death to me.

not just calmness but also sense of space and time, cause and effect, all this stuff can be switched at will in labs
 
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Barnabot

Member
no. death is not the end. got my wife and my kid and they both love me as much as i love them. the kid sees me as one of the most important figure in his life. if i die today then barnabot as myself will be carried with them along with their remembrance of me and also all the shared experiences they had with me.

my body can die but i won't ever cease to exist to the loved ones.

i'm immortal.

nice tomb message btw

 

GAMETA

Banned
Even though I believe in God and angels as higher beings, I do not believe in life after death for us humans.
 
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