Support NeoGAF

[DESTROYA]

It was an example now answer my question. How are me and bronk gonna play Bonk's Adventure on NES? Pay $600+ for a copy?
BTW how many overpriced retro games do you currently have listed on ebay?

Zero.
If you really wanted to play Bonks Adventure that bad you can buy a working TurboGrafx 16 and the game for under $ 100 and play it on the hardware it was meant to be played on.

 

[bronk]

One of my favorite things ever is the XBLIG program. I have my 360 connected with a ton of them still but how will ever get to experience the rest of the gems and or trash? I have to accept well it was fun while it lasted if you missed out you're shit out of luck. There is no way in hell to purchase them. They are preserved but I'm never allowed to play them.....ever? It makes no sense to me.

 

[McCheese]

Thank you, brother. I feel safe now not having to download a ROM. Don't want Hudson Soft showing up at my house.

imagine waking up in the middle of the night and hearing this outside your door.

 

[bronk]

Zero.
If you really wanted to play Bonks Adventure that bad you can buy a working TurboGrafx 16 and the game for under $ 100 and play it on the hardware it was meant to be played on.

That makes no sense. Meant to be played on? Some people like different versions, different music. Call me crazy but I absolutely love Snes version of Prince of Persia over the original.

 

[brap]

Zero.
If you really wanted to play Bonks Adventure that bad you can buy a working TurboGrafx 16 and the game for under $ 100 and play it on the hardware it was meant to be played on.

You're still not answering my questions. I love Team Buddies. Played the demo as a kid. Now I have to pay over $100 for a used copy? Or are you gonna just tell me the game is shit and I shouldn't worry about it?

imagine waking up in the middle of the night and hearing this outside your door.

Sounds like some nice music. The game looks cool too. Guess I'll drop 42 bucks for a copy from some reseller. Seems reasonable enough.

 

[DESTROYA]

You're still not answering my questions. I love Team Buddies. Played the demo as a kid. Now I have to pay over $100 for a used copy? Or are you gonna just tell me the game is shit and I shouldn't worry about it?


Sounds like some nice music. The game looks cool too. Guess I'll drop 42 bucks for a copy from some reseller. Seems reasonable enough.

Why you picking random games that are only expensive now because the sold like shit and not too many copies are available.
I bet you never played Team Buddies.

 

[brap]

Why you picking random games that are only expensive now because the sold like shit and not too many copies are available.
I bet you never played Team Buddies.

Sorry but Team Buddies isn't a random game to me. I loved it. Just look at fucking Super Bomberman. 42 bucks. Is that a random game? Most old games worth a shit are around $20+ but I'm done arguing.

 

[SuperGooey]

Nerrel consistently makes great videos. I agree with him 100% on this.

 

[sol_bad]

Why you picking random games that are only expensive now because the sold like shit and not too many copies are available.
I bet you never played Team Buddies.

Why should some random stranger get 2 or 3 times the original value of a game? If someone just wants to play and finish an old game, why should they have to pay 2 or 3 time the original value of a game?

If a collector wants to pay high money for a rare or a complete SNES game they can go for gold. A none collector doesn't want to pay that much.

It's the IP owners responsibility to release old games for modern systems. Like what Capcom and Konami have recently done. Like what Nintendo did on Wii.

If EA would bloody release their Mega Drive games I would buy them in a heartbeat. Road Rash and Desert Strike games? Yes please.

 

[Spukc]

Why should some random stranger get 2 or 3 times the original value of a game? If someone just wants to play and finish an old game, why should they have to pay 2 or 3 time the original value of a game?

If a collector wants to pay high money for a rare or a complete SNES game they can go for gold. A none collector doesn't want to pay that much.

It's the IP owners responsibility to release old games for modern systems. Like what Capcom and Konami have recently done. Like what Nintendo did on Wii.

If EA would bloody release their Mega Drive games I would buy them in a heartbeat. Road Rash and Desert Strike games? Yes please.

Yeah i want a pal version of sotn. But fuck those prices. Fuck that

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Well, we do need to PRESERVE THOSE OLD SCHOOL GAMES.

GOG but unfortunately there's quite a few old games not available there, yet at least.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Why should some random stranger get 2 or 3 times the original value of a game? If someone just wants to play and finish an old game, why should they have to pay 2 or 3 time the original value of a game?

If a collector wants to pay high money for a rare or a complete SNES game they can go for gold. A none collector doesn't want to pay that much.

It's the IP owners responsibility to release old games for modern systems. Like what Capcom and Konami have recently done. Like what Nintendo did on Wii.

If EA would bloody release their Mega Drive games I would buy them in a heartbeat. Road Rash and Desert Strike games? Yes please.

We need more drm free releases of old games and compilations. It sucks that sellers asking outrageous prices for old games I'd like to get, especially factory sealed.

One game for instance - Wizardry: Tales of Forsaken Lamd is going for about $100+. I can't afford that. I just wish pubs and devs would release more older games especially drm free digital or physical media.

Another good example - Lunar 1 and 2 especially the PSX versions. I want Lunar 2 so damn bad but the cost for a factory sealed copy kills it for me.

 

[JSoup]

A big problem with these discussions is they get muddled between trying to have a conversation about emulation in of itself and people trying to justify their own actions or admonish the actions of others. Neither of those are causes or benefits, just symptoms of the situation.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I could care less about the law. The industry does a terrible job of preserving their products so we have step in and do it for them.

This is a shitty rationalization for people breaking the law to play something by appealing to some kind of moral construct which functions on an entitlement mindset where they not only lie to themselves for justification, but also to others as if they're doing the industry a favor.. It's total bullshit.

Fact is these games are preserved, people actually own them, people have backed them up who own them, they are in the hands of private collectors, they are in the hands of ACTUAL preservationists. Reality is the ones engaging in the practices discussed in this thread are not owners, they're pirates trying to act like the moral saviors of gamings history when people who have actually shelled out money on these games are the real ones preserving its past.

Panzer Dragoon Saga is $700? That doesn't give you the right to pirate and play it. There's limited copies of it and the source code is lost? That doesn't give you the right to pirate it. These games are well taken care of, they don't need any intervention from the likes of scummy snake oil salesmen appealing to some kind of moral high ground.

This is a pay to play industry and it doesn't matter how old or rare something is, if you can't afford it in its real form you have no right or entitlement to it regardless of your reasoning. This is fake concern to perpetuate illegal activities for something well in hand by those financially invested.

 

[EightBit Man]

If you really wanted to play Bonks Adventure that bad you can buy a working TurboGrafx 16 and the game for under $ 100 and play it on the hardware it was meant to be played on.

You have to keep in mind that hardware and software are physically dying, literally. And there's also the case of how people have treated their hard and software over the years. I think, and this is my personal opinion, that a lot of people don't take proper care of these things. Keep CDs or DVDs stored in a humid enough environment long enough and you're fucked. How do I know if a person took proper care of their sold stuff over the years? Hell, they might be third-hand for all I know?

I've rented PlayStation games back in the day, and most of the time they were full of scratches. I never bought supposedly second-hand games for that reason alone.

Less than near-mint is also worthless in my book.

 

[TriSuit666]

A big problem with these discussions is they get muddled between trying to have a conversation about emulation in of itself and people trying to justify their own actions or admonish the actions of others. Neither of those are causes or benefits, just symptoms of the situation.

We have a winner.

Instead of an adulting conversation on the subject, we just have to put up with sanctimonious lecturing from people who clearly think their shit smells better than everyone else.

 

[Psajdak]

Speaking of preservation...

It is obvious that even still existing CRTs will one day simply stop working, or be to (ridiculously) expensive such as those PVMs, or BVMs...

Low input lag is more or less easy to find in current monitors, but what about picture itself?
Especially for 240p stuff...

Do you think we will eventually have the kind of display, or technology, or simply shaders that can show those games as they were intended, or even better, with the way colors on current TVs, and monitors look?

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Speaking of preservation...

It is obvious that even still existing CRTs will one day simply stop working, or be to (ridiculously) expensive such as those PVMs, or BVMs...

Low input lag is more or less easy to find in current monitors, but what about picture itself?
Especially for 240p stuff...

Do you think we will eventually have the kind of display, or technology, or simply shaders that can show those games as they were intended, or even better, with the way colors on current TVs, and monitors look?

Nothing will ever replicate a CRT, you merely have to do your best to keep the ones you have in clean and satisfactory working order. Have them recapped, dust them, blow out the innards annually. We still have working CRT's from the 1950's and so on, they just have to be looked after properly and they can last an incredibly long period of time.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

That’s a pretty weak excuse? There are a lot of ways to play old video games like actually finding the software and hardware to play them properly.

There's one very large issue with this stance; the hardware is all dying, slowly but surely dying. Some of the more regularly emulated systems are going on 40+ years old and there's already plenty of dead examples out there. Some can be fixed economically, some can't. Equally the media itself is getting harder and harder to acquire. The memory chips used in old cartridges has a shelf life (and we're well past it) and they eventually fail and suffer massive corruption. Once the ROM is corrupted there ain't no saving it, you'd have to replace the chip and reprogram it with a known good copy of the data. Optical media starts to literally rot after a while.

Preservation isn't something you can do after the fact, once whatever you're trying to preserve is gone, you need to be proactive.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

 

[brap]

Another good example - Lunar 1 and 2 especially the PSX versions. I want Lunar 2 so damn bad but the cost for a factory sealed copy kills it for me.

Then don't buy it new. I got a perfect copy of Lunar 2 for about 80 bucks years ago.

 

[JSoup]

Do you think we will eventually have the kind of display, or technology, or simply shaders that can show those games as they were intended, or even better, with the way colors on current TVs, and monitors look?

Yes, the bolded already exists. RetroArch has several versions of same by default and more can be added and edited as needed.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Leave the pizza on the counter and get out!

 

[sol_bad]

Nothing will ever replicate a CRT, you merely have to do your best to keep the ones you have in clean and satisfactory working order. Have them recapped, dust them, blow out the innards annually. We still have working CRT's from the 1950's and so on, they just have to be looked after properly and they can last an incredibly long period of time.

Retroarch and it's CRT filters replicate CRT pretty well on my 55inch 4K screen with no discernible lag IMO.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Retroarch works decently enough on the portables as well.

 

[JSoup]

Retroarch works decently enough on the portables as well.

I tried the Android version on a whim when it was new. A few annoying quarks aside, having a handful of SNES RPGs to pick away at on the go is pretty awesome.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Then don't buy it new. I got a perfect copy of Lunar 2 for about 80 bucks years ago.

Yeah I know but I'm OCD and always go factory sealed if I'm collecting.

 

[EightBit Man]

Anyone else think it is stupid of Nintendo not to re-release their Mini consoles with more games on them? It is my opinion that these so-called "stone cold and influential classics" should always be available to new audiences. It is genuinely true what was said in the video; these companies need to compete with the more experienced people who have been developing emulators over the (many) years, like byuu.

Nintendo's N.E.R.D. did take cues from what has been done by people very familiar with emulation, but Nintendo needs to realize that emulation and improvement of it doesn't stop there.

 

[Blond]

That’s a pretty weak excuse? There are a lot of ways to play old video games like actually finding the software and hardware to play them properly.

Dude there's enough lost music, movies, art and even historical recordings of long dead tribal languages we just don't have anymore. Literal history was wiped off the face of the earth and it's like those people never existed! Not to mention we still don't know how the pyramids of ancient civilzations have been built with rudimentary technology. Preservation is important, my dreamcast is 20 years old and the disc drive was long dead. But the GDEMU + Help from the internet means I can play crazy taxi again, in it's original form with licensed music, from an SD card. I understand where you're coming from and it's not like there isn't legitimacy to your argument, I just think that you're approaching from the same much outdated point of view as Nintendo and Sony were when they attempted to sue people who make emulators and they both failed miserably in court.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

I tried the Android version on a whim when it was new. A few annoying quarks aside, having a handful of SNES RPGs to pick away at on the go is pretty awesome.

Touch screen is aids for games made around physical buttons though.

 

[JSoup]

Arguing that it's largely for preservation isn't a completely rock solid position. Yes, it has merit, yes, the more people who have a thing the harder it's going to be for the thing to just up and vanish. But not everyone who is downloading a torrented ROM back is interested in contributing to the ubiquity, by and large, the majority are downloading the pack to play the games. I personally don't take issue with this, but, in a very limited sense, I can understand why a person with an expensive collection would be trying to stamp it out.

I would argue that the rarer the title, the more important it is to help it along to the ubiquity line, There is at least one GB ROM out there you can only find because I went out of my way to spread it around in 2005.

Touch screen is aids for games made around physical buttons though.

Agreed. That's why I've only tried to play RPGs with it.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Then don't buy it new. I got a perfect copy of Lunar 2 for about 80 bucks years ago.

Another thing I wanted to mention about games as old as original Xbox or PS2 or older is condition. I'm paranoid about things like disc rot or scratches. I heard even stacking games laying down as opposed to an upright position (like as a book on a shelf) can damage discs. I'm really weird like that.

 

[brap]

Another thing I wanted to mention about games as old as original Xbox or PS2 or older is condition. I'm paranoid about things like disc rot or scratches. I heard even stacking games laying down as opposed to an upright position (like as a book on a shelf) can damage discs. I'm really weird like that.

Pretty sure disc rot will happen whether it's new or not. It's why I stopped buying PS1 games. Just gonna be a giant stack of worthless garbage in probably 10 years.

 

[Whitesnake]

That’s a pretty weak excuse? There are a lot of ways to play old video games like actually finding the software and hardware to play them properly.

Mate, I’m not going to pay $200 to play Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance. No sane person would.

No one involved in making the game would ever even make money from that transaction in the first place. It’s all going to used game stores and random ebay sellers.
For a moment let’s take piracy off the table, and I could only choose between buying the game for an obscenely high price, or not play the game at all. I’m going to choose not to play the game. The seller’s don’t benefit, the rights holders don’t benefit, I don’t benefit.
Contrarily, let’s say I pirate the game, enjoy it, and recommend it to people. This could potentially create renewed interest in the secondhand market for the game (benefitting sellers) and new interest in the franchise (benefitting the rights holders).

Of course, I’m not going to pretend I do these things for altruistic reasons, I do it for my own frugality and convenience. Still, none of the alternatives benefit the people that you pretend to advocate for. My way at least has a chance of indirectly helping those people.

 

[Whitesnake]

 

[brap]

Reported for homophobia. Fuck off chud.

 

[zcaa0g]

DESTROYA works for Nintendo. Just ignore her.

And who are they to take away a license for a game that people bought? It goes both ways. A license isn't a one time product that breaks and you replace it or don't. It's a product you own for the entirety of your life.

People may not own the game, but they do own the license to play that game for the rest of their lives...through any technical means possible.

 

[sol_bad]

Anyone else think it is stupid of Nintendo not to re-release their Mini consoles with more games on them? It is my opinion that these so-called "stone cold and influential classics" should always be available to new audiences. It is genuinely true what was said in the video; these companies need to compete with the more experienced people who have been developing emulators over the (many) years, like byuu.

Nintendo's N.E.R.D. did take cues from what has been done by people very familiar with emulation, but Nintendo needs to realize that emulation and improvement of it doesn't stop there.

I think it's stupider that they stopped their virtual console that they had going on the Wii and Wii U.

 

[EightBit Man]

I think it's stupider that they stopped their virtual console that they had going on the Wii and Wii U.

Yeah, that's a fair point. The emulation of the games they have on the subscription service is even better than on the aforementioned consoles. A wasted opportunity I think. At least for people who want to actually purchase these games for long-term usability.

 

[anthraticus]

 

[Panajev2001a]

The truth is the Copyright should last only 20-30 years. No more.
It single handedly solves all the issues and clears all the gray areas.

Games before 2000, or 1995 should more or less be in the public domain already.

Imagine paying money for shitty old NES, SNES ROMS, etc. And the ridiculous prices Nintendo charges for them, etc.

You are right, but we are fighting the wrong fight as law is not getting reformed, but at best you have weak enforcement of some ancillary provisions or token exceptions to calm the water.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It was an example now answer my question. How are me and bronk gonna play Bonk's Adventure on NES? Pay $600+ for a copy?
BTW how many overpriced retro games do you currently have listed on ebay?

I get the gist behind why people do it and how the problem is really copyright law and forced demand (as I said already second hand sales are protected by law, downloading ROM’s for games you do not... is not), but the answer to your question would be “if you cannot afford it, do not play it”. It would suck that you were not able to play that game, but the argument you are making is pretty much “I cannot afford it, so I stole it” which I could comprehend, and in most jurisdictions it has lenient sentences, if you were dirt poor and stole an Apple to feed yourself or your child to make a more extreme case.

 

[Animagic]

I play emulators all the time. Usually games I already own, but I have ventured out.
Here’s the thing though, I will buy the shit out of game collections, official rereleases, mini consoles, etc
I just love older game design. Nothing beats a good old game.

Now this is an aside, not a justifying argument for emulating/piracy, etc: about half the time or more, the official rerelease or game collection runs like shit. It blows my mind. How are emus so much better than some of these collections? Thank God for M2 and Hamster.

 

[TriSuit666]

DESTROYA is obviously asking the wrong question.

As someone who worked in the console industry back in the day and at one point was able to own every single console, including the Neo Geo AND TurboGrafix (as it's mentioned) and had access to many other 'retro' devices... Is the question of little Jimmy torrenting a RetroPie pack with his favourite games, or the companies producing 500-in-1, or 1000-in-1 cartridges in the quantities they did then the real cause of the downfall of society?

 

[PocoJoe]

That’s a pretty weak excuse? There are a lot of ways to play old video games like actually finding the software and hardware to play them properly.

Download 10000 ROMS and play em

buy retro systems + games from auctions/fleemarkets

= both give the exact amount of 0€ to the original manufacturer.

Games(and movies) older than 20-25 years should be free anyway.

I have hundreds of retro games on multiple systems, but not everyone are so lucky and I 100% support playing those games with emulators.

Also systems that used c-cassettes/floppies, like spectravideo, c64 = good luck to find working tapes and floppies soon.

Modern/new games piracy, that I dont mostly support but even that is said to have positive impact after all. Also, people that have no money to buy new games and pirate them = zero loss for the makers.

Companies are just too stubborn and stiff.

Tv-series are good example. some have 1-2 million views on premier at USA, but 10-50 million worldwide when counting pirated episodes. = companies cry that not enough views, lets cancel it.

Instead of offering youtube kind of free streams with ads for the world and get revenue instead of losing it to piratebay. Companies cant stop piracy so they should just embrace it and offer as easy use alternative as downloading torrents (at least for tv-series, older movies)

 

[PocoJoe]

And who are you to steal there intellectual property? You aren’t talking about preservation just your own desire to play those games free. Stop fooling yourself.

Did you take that photo in your profile, pay for it or is it free to use?

never used a photo without asking permission?

never have had mp3, movies or series? Never had some kind of party with people and played music to them without paying royalties(yes, there is some limits for that too in many countries, like have a wedding = technically you should pay for the royalties if you have music)

So you say you never ever "stole" any picture, music, media, games, anything in your life?

We could ask who are you to blame others for stealing, an internet cop?

It is not that serious, it is not stealing if nobody loses anything.

Using random picture at forums = nobody loses money, downloading old ass game = the same.

Piracy isnt and never been stealing. dont believe those "would you download a car" ads

 

[Airola]

1. We are not entitled to play or watch everything we want.
2. Something being too expensive is not an excuse.
3. I like the fact that because of emulation even the most obscure old games will be available in some form or another even 100 or 200 years from now.
4. While I think we are not entitled to play all the games we want and video game creators and publishers can charge money for their old games as long as they want and they are free to not keep their games available and still don't allow people to share them for free, I don't really care if game roms are shared around. I care about it about as much as I care about someone jaywalking. I mean, yeah it's wrong, but do I really care about the existence of that wrongdoing that much? Nah.

Let's just admit that when we play emulated games we don't own or have never owned we are mostly doing it because of some hedonistic self-pleasure reason. "It's too expensive" is a bullshit reason. Just let's be honest about it.

That's a pretty shit post. I want to play Ducktales 2. It's not available on eshop, etc. Now I have to drop ~$250 bucks on a copy?

Cmon brap you can buy the Disney Afternoon collection for Xbox and play Ducktales 2 and 5 other games for $20.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/the-disney-afternoon-collection-xbox-one-digital/5876413.p?skuId=5876413&ref=212&loc=1&ref=212&loc=1&ds_rl=1266837&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItfC_hfCz5wIVAtvACh2wmQ_7EAkYAiABEgJhjvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

It was an example now answer my question. How are me and bronk gonna play Bonk's Adventure on NES? Pay $600+ for a copy?
BTW how many overpriced retro games do you currently have listed on ebay?

One of the problems here is that if getting free roms is too easy, there will definitely be people who don't care to look if some certain game is already available in a computer or console they own.

 

[TriSuit666]

never have had mp3, movies or series? Never had some kind of party with people and played music to them without paying royalties(yes, there is some limits for that too in many countries, like have a wedding = technically you should pay for the royalties if you have music)

Correct, in the UK it is illegal to play music in public spaces unless you own a PRS licence.

And PRS have been known to ring offices/companies up on spec, and if they can hear a radio playing in the background would force them to pay for a Public Performance Licence.

 

[Airola]

Anyone else think it is stupid of Nintendo not to re-release their Mini consoles with more games on them?

Them not releasing a mini console with online capabilities and have a store where you can buy and download games to that mini console is such a huge missed opportunity.

 

[Airola]

Games(and movies) older than 20-25 years should be free anyway.

The problem with this is that what if someone made a game or a movie that was way ahead of its time and underappreciated during its initial life cycle? What if an old game or movie suddenly becomes a hidden gem and a cult classic? If there's a way to make the original developer or a publisher that takes care of its availability get some money out of it?