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[Astray]

Hopefully cases like this force MS to reconsider their parity stance.

If they reconsider that parity stance then they would piss off all the big retailers, who would be saddled with Series S stock that most gamers will either avoid or tell others to avoid it. Not to mention potentially being opened up to a class-action suit.

Series S is already overstocked on store shelves as it is without losing the parity policy.

The solution was to never release it in the 1st place.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Series S will be a thorn in MS's side for many years to come. Best case scenario for them is if they kill support for it at the beginning of next-gen.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Wow, the thing that everyone always knew would happen happened.

Series S was fine as a cross-gen console when games weren't taking the consoles to their limits and left plenty of headroom.

Now that the last gen is dead and games are being developed exclusively with modern console capabilities in mind, it's going to become a growing albatross around Microsoft's neck.

 

[DeepEnigma]

What do you mean by drop in/out?

"cross-gen" means nothing really.. they could've told us that it isn't, and we would have to go with that. What makes BG3 "next gen" exactly?

You can drop into split screen at any point of a game already being played game, without having to go into a separate "split-screen" mode and restarted. You can go into split or non-slit on the fly.

If you don't even know what the issue is or how it works, then we are done here, and you are just throwing shit out there. Comparing apples to oranges.

Not even close to being the same as a racing game which most cross-gen ones have split-screen.

 

[Senua]

just make the games run at 240p and be done with it i say!

 

[Punished Miku]

"Larian Studios CEO and Baldur's Gate 3 creative lead Swen Vincke says that "the platform is perfectly fine".

"Do I think it holds [gaming] back?" Vincke said in an interview with Skill Up. "It just defines certain parameters within which you have to develop. There are ways of doing that - it just takes development effort [...] Despite us having grown, we don't have infinite resources. That means we can't do everything at the same time."

Looks like more a question of resources.

Interesting.

 

[semiconscious]

Such a terrible decision by Phil

Just really bad strategy and thought leadership on his part that’s going to hamstring this gen

well, it absolutely sold consoles (who knows what xbox sales would be right now without the series s). but, yeah, there was always gonna be a price to be paid...

 

[Roxkis_ii]

You know what, there could be a future where the Xbox series s could be a game changer. If it MS could turn it into a portable console that runs it games naviely and keep the same price point it could be a killer device. It would also mean Microsoft would have to release some banger software to launch with it, and I don't see it with the current Microsoft/Xbox.

 

[Luigi Mario]

It is quite telling how slowly but surely stories of devs having trouble working around the Xbox Series S limitations are emerging. As the generation continues we will hear more and more about stuff like this.

Moreover, I'm not sure Microsoft will reevaluate their parity clause for Series S, considering that it seems to be their main focus this gen.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Interesting.

If MS had a unified SKU, those resources would not be an issue.

But hey, interesting that he did not mention your Starfield FUD theory.

 

[Vox Machina]

You know what, there could be a future where the Xbox series s could be a game changer. If it MS could turn it into a portable console that runs it games naviely and keep the same price point it could be a killer device. It would also mean Microsoft would have to release some banger software to launch with it, and I don't see it with the current Microsoft/Xbox.

That's what I'd be working towards if I were in a position to make it happen. Get the Series S into a Handheld as soon as physically possible then relax the parity clause. Gamers don't really expect full software compatibility on handhelds as their stationary cousins. In a perfect world you'd be able to plug this handheld into your stationary unit and then it would use the stationary unit's APU to natively deliver the game at the higher specs. Would be pretty cool

 

[Punished Miku]

If MS had a unified SKU, those resources would not be an issue.

But hey, interesting that he did not mention your Starfield FUD theory.

He pretty much confirmed exactly what I said actually. They decided to release it later and allocated their resources to the other systems. Not only does this allow them to focus on the top selling console first and get it out on Sept 6th, but they don't lose much by waiting and releasing on Xbox later for the reasons I explained. I couldn't have possibly asked for a more direct quote confirming it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

He pretty much confirmed exactly what I said actually. They decided to release it later and allocated their resources to the other systems. Not only does this allow them to focus on the top selling console first and get it out on Sept 6th, but they don't lose much by waiting and releasing on Xbox later for the reasons I explained. I couldn't have possibly asked for a more direct quote confirming it.

Once again, if MS had just one SKU, it would release on time. The weaker SKU is giving them issues they don't have the resources for. Catch 22, bruh.

 

[jroc74]

Everyone knows console gens only really start when the "Pro" versions come out. But at that point they're being held back by the regular versions

So Sony and MS just got into console gaming last gen?

Cool.

Tell us again how PS5 exclusives are held back by the Series S?

Any PS5 game will factor in the PS5. PS5 will be the baseline.
Any Xbox Series game will have to factor in the Series S....until it gets discontinued and support is dropped for it. As many predicted when the specs were revealed....the Series S is probably the baseline for Series consoles and probably all multi platform games.

The Series S is/will be the weakest of any PS5 or Series console.

Apples to watermelons trying to compare a pro console to dealing with the Series S. Which is weaker than what should have been the console baseline: PS5 and XSX.

If MS had a unified SKU, those resources would not be an issue.

But hey, interesting that he did not mention your Starfield FUD theory.

i think I briefly saw that theory, i actually thought it was legit.

Even if it is...that doesnt explain why the PS5 version is launching the same month as Starfield. If they didnt have the Series S issues....would they have also delayed the PS5 version until next year?

 

[DeepEnigma]

i think I briefly saw that theory, i actually thought it was legit.

Even if it is...that doesnt explain why the PS5 version is launching the same month as Starfield. If they didnt have the Series S issues....would they have also delayed the PS5 version until next year?

It's not legit, at all. More narrative shifting.

 

[RoboFu]

Doesn't really matter if its really technical hurdle to fit in co-op or just a small dev biting off more thanit can chew.

It is happening and it is going to be used as a bad mark against the xbox. It is up to MS at this point to get the devs the help they need as quickly as they can if they do not want this to exculate any more.

 

[Kusarigama]

The decision to have mandatory parity between X & S will eventually come to bite MS back with their own studios.

 

[Spitfire098]

I don't mind a lower specced model to keep these devs in check.

 

[Vox Machina]

So Sony and MS just got into console gaming last gen?

Bruh it was sarcasm, but even still:

Any PS5 game will factor in the PS5. PS5 will be the baseline.

Tell me why console gamers are excited for Pro consoles again? Would Sony not have an implicit Parity Clause between PS5 and PS5 Pro?

 

[Physiognomonics]

Baldur's Gate 3 Lead Says Xbox Series S Isn't Holding Back Current-Gen

Swen Vincke likened developing for the Xbox Series S to minimum spec PCs and the Nintendo Switch.

www.thegamer.com

"Larian Studios CEO and Baldur's Gate 3 creative lead Swen Vincke says that "the platform is perfectly fine".

"Do I think it holds [gaming] back?" Vincke said in an interview with Skill Up. "It just defines certain parameters within which you have to develop. There are ways of doing that - it just takes development effort [...] Despite us having grown, we don't have infinite resources. That means we can't do everything at the same time."

Looks like more a question of resources.

Well sure in this case it's not a problem as they actually didn't release it along with PS5 version because they couldn't do it will the same features. Duh.

 

[VolticArchangel]

People, it's not hard to understand what the actual devs are saying.

Their target hardware for their software, which is PC and the lower common denominator of the two base consoles, the 10.3 TFLoPs PS5 as their minspec. This way they can target the enthusiast core audience with a significant installed base and have the best looking/feature complete currentgen game they can possibly make.

Are they saying that BGIII can't run on the S? No. It takes time, months, if not more than a year for a stable optimised code to run sustainably, because MINSPEC MATTERS. Everything from asset creation to level design to npc interactions (and here co-op) need to be worked around and scaled down ( or in the internet's favorite hyperbolic word "downgraded") to run on Series S. But they're not rewriting code.

Think how The Witcher 3 and now the Arkham Knight are running on the Switch vs the definitive way to play them - the PC > PS4/XB1 > Switch. I know it's a slightly different comparison because of different architectures (x86 vs ARM) and outsourced developers, but the context here is the same.

 

[Punished Miku]

Even if it is...that doesnt explain why the PS5 version is launching the same month as Starfield. If they didnt have the Series S issues....would they have also delayed the PS5 version until next year?

They massively benefit launching on the same day as Starfield on the PS5. They get to try and inherit all the WRPG demand for Bethesda games and direct it towards their product on the best selling console. "Reading any articles on Starfield and want a WRPG? Buy our game." It's a great plan, and it's going to work well.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

Shit like this should have been expected from the series s when it was revealed it couldn't even run xbox one x enhanced versions of xbox one games due to memory limitations.
That's right, a current gen system that can't even run last gen games with X/Pro enhancements.

 

[Hendrick's]

I mean, the software productivity company should be doing a good job making their jobs easier with how time consuming and expensive games are to make. We all wave those pom poms when (insert favorite exec) PRs it. Especially Phillip.

I get it, but I just don't see other professions going on Twitter to bitch about things that make their jobs harder. These devs are simply divas.

 

[nial]

It is incredibly fortuitous for Sony that a huge, well-reviewed, highly anticipated PC RPG is coming exclusively to their console a few days within the launch release of Microsoft's huge, (hopefully) well-reviewed, highly anticipated PC RPG is coming exclusively to Xbox.

In fact, they will be released the same day on consoles.

I find it funny how sony’s answer to the xbox series S (bringing the ps4 back) was essentially the better choice compared to MS making a xbox one x with no disk drive and slapping next gen on it

Heh, Sony never really killed the PS4.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I get it, but I just don't see other professions going on Twitter to bitch about things that make their jobs harder. These devs are simply divas.

Bro, it's twitter, this does indeed happen. Everyone bitches on social media.

 

[jroc74]

Bruh it was sarcasm, but even still:



Tell me why console gamers are excited for Pro consoles again? Would Sony not have an implicit Parity Clause between PS5 and PS5 Pro?

Well for one, there is no weaker PS5 console.

Whatever game that has to run on a Pro would have to run with lil to no issues on the PS5. Now think about how the PS5 matches up with the XSX and Series S.

The big concern last gen was thinking devs were going to target the pro consoles. That wasnt really an issue. Maybe late gen games but still.

They massively benefit launching on the same day as Starfield on the PS5. They get to try and inherit all the WRPG demand for Bethesda games and direct it towards their product on the best selling console. "Reading any articles on Starfield and want a WRPG? Buy our game." It's a great plan, and it's going to work well.

So...what you're saying is if the Series S didnt exisit...the PS5 and XSX version woulda still launched in Sept?

Because if they moved up the PC release to avoid Starfield, the PS5 version was still delayed and now coming in Sept. If they only wanted a month space for the PC release what would that mean for the Series release if the Series S didn't exist?

 

[Vox Machina]

Well for one, there is no weaker PS5 console.

When the Pro launches then PS5 is the weaker console. It will be the one holding games back for Pro owners at that point.

 

[sendit]

Put resource in to a compromised BG3 experience or focus on game play defining moments:

Baldur's Gate 3 hired an actor just for sex noises: "I made sounds like 'mmgh' and 'ahh' and then I kissed my hand a whole lot"

"You mull that over as you run around, you little horny perverts, with your little perverted roleplays, you randy bastards"

www.gamesradar.com

The studio made the right choice IMO.

 

[Punished Miku]

Well for one, there is no weaker PS5 console.

Whatever game that has to run on a Pro would have to run with lil to no issues on the PS5. Now think about how the PS5 matches up with the XSX and Series S.

The big concern last gen was thinking devs were going to target the pro consoles. That wasnt really an issue. Maybe late gen games but still.


So...what you're saying is if the Series S didnt exisit...the PS5 and XSX version woulda still launched in Sept?

Because if they moved up the PC release to avoid Starfield, the PS5 version was still delayed and now coming in Sept. If they only wanted a month space for the PC release what would that mean for the Series release if the Series S didn't exist?

If they had infinite resources, they'd either have to think of a different reason to launch on XSX later, or launch on Sept 6th and sell a tiny, tiny fraction of what they could have, or launch all versions in August and miss this chance for extra publicity on Playstation. They'd have to pick. The way it is now, they win on all 3 versions.

 

[Hendrick's]

Bro, it's twitter, this does indeed happen. Everyone bitches on social media.

Yeah you could be right. I never go on Twitter so Gaf is the only place I ever see them. So it seeming skewed makes perfect sense. I'm still not going to Twitter to find out though.

 

[jm89]

When the Pro launches then PS5 is the weaker console. It will be the one holding games back for Pro owners at that point.

It is no where near the same.

They will both have 16gb of total memory atleast, maybe pro has a bit more.

But the diffrence won't be anything near what we have with the series x and s.

Developers are having to do extra work and make compromises to get there games working, ps5 baseline memory is straight out the gate much higher and will be much closer to the pro.

 

[reinking]

Some people can spin it anyway they want. At the end of it all the PS5 was gifted a high-profile timed console exclusive.

 

[Codeblew]

When the Pro launches then PS5 is the weaker console. It will be the one holding games back for Pro owners at that point.

The difference is, Sony doesn't force developers to take advantage of PRO features. Devs can only target base PS5 if they want to and it will work fine on the PS5 Pro.

 

[Topher]

If they had infinite resources, they'd either have to think of a different reason to launch on XSX later, or launch on Sept 6th and sell a tiny, tiny fraction of what they could have, or launch all versions in August and miss this chance for extra publicity on Playstation. They'd have to pick. The way it is now, they win on all 3 versions.

If they had to pick, I'd bet they rather not have this problem in the first place and they would be able to launch the game on both PS5 and Xbox at the same time. I don't buy this assumption Larian is better off with a delayed version on Xbox either.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

Yep. PS5 players who would have been tempted by Starfield and be potential customers might just find Baldur's Gate III to their liking. I know they're very different games but you can only play so many 200+ hours RPGs at once.

Dude, I just realized that they both launch on the same day.

Microsoft's decisions provided PlayStation owners with an option. And it was completely free for Sony.
lol

 

[SlimySnake]

just make the games run at 240p and be done with it i say!

Game can run just fine on a series s. the problem is with splitscreen coop which means the game has to run two instances of everything in the game. That could point to a CPU or RAM issue.

Seeing as how the CPU is the same, we are looking at the ram issue. No amount of reducing resolution is going to fix that.

 

[Three]

Some are suggesting that MS drop the parity clause. Not a chance. They're more likely to put the burden of it on existing Series S owners. Release a New Series S with more RAM without a song and dance and try and get existing Series S owners to upgrade.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

Not to mention potentially being opened up to a class-action suit.

People really ignore how likely this would be
For real

 

[Vox Machina]

The difference is, Sony doesn't force developers to take advantage of PRO features. Devs can only target base PS5 if they want to and it will work fine on the PS5 Pro.

You're basically just saying the same thing. That the base PS5 would hold gaming back for Pro owners, yeah?

 

[Physiognomonics]

The difference is, Sony doesn't force developers to take advantage of PRO features. Devs can only target base PS5 if they want to and it will work fine on the PS5 Pro.

And PS5 Pro, like PS4 Pro, will be designed in order to not have memory limitations which is the real problem with those X1S games. If you don't want problem then you design your game for XSS reduced memory and scale that to XSX, PS5.

Clearly BG3 devs didn't want to do that and wanted a solid PS5 version first. Besides they'll have help from MS for free so that was the smart move. It shows soon devs will stop releasing Xbox series versions like the way XB1 was abandonned by the many devs well before PS4 (which is still supported by many).

 

[SlimySnake]

Some are suggesting that MS drop the parity clause. Not a chance. They're more likely to put the burden of it on existing Series S owners. Release a New Series S with more RAM without a song and dance and try and get existing Series S owners to upgrade.

The court filings showed that MS undershipped the xsx to save the chips for their cloud servers. The XSS was already outselling the xsx back in 2021, it is probably 2:1 right now or roughly 66% of the overall userbase.

No way in hell does MS drop the parity clause because that opens the door to developers dropping the xss altogether leaving the vast majority of xss owners without access to next gen games. They will be open to class action lawsuits.

 

[Vox Machina]

It is no where near the same.

They will both have 16gb of total memory atleast, maybe pro has a bit more.

But the diffrence won't be anything near what we have with the series x and s.

Developers are having to do extra work and make compromises to get there games working, ps5 baseline memory is straight out the gate much higher and will be much closer to the pro.

Yeah but it's still a much lower specced SKU that HAS to be supported by PS devs, right? Unless Sony is going to start shipping games with Pro-only features or entire Pro-only games.

 

[Macaron]

And people will stay label you a "console warrior" if you speak of Sony's superiority in competition.

 

[Games of Today]

Who knew that Xbox creating the Series S would end up being just as retarded as a decision as the "always online" protocol from the Xbox One reveal.

It sounds good in theory, we'll help out people that want to play new generation games but don't have a lot of money with a machine that they can afford.

As time goes on we may see third party studios only releasing games for PS5 and PC if the policy doesn't change.

It really seems like Microsoft just can't win.

 

[Embearded]

I don't mind a lower specced model to keep these devs in check. If Rockstar was able to pull off RDR2 on an Xbone, then the Gotham Knight devs have no excuse for their complete failure on current-gen only systems.

RDR2 took ~400 million to make and 8 years. It's the fuck you money they made from GTA Online, do you really think its common in the industry?

And lower specs to keep devs in check? What does that even mean?
Do you have any idea about software development?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Who knew that Xbox creating the Series S would end up being just as retarded as a decision as the "always online" protocol from the Xbox One reveal.

It sounds good in theory, we'll help out people that want to play new generation games but don't have a lot of money with a machine that they can afford.

As time goes on we may see third party studios only releasing games for PS5 and PC if the policy doesn't change.

It really seems like Microsoft just can't win.

Hence buy up all the big third party publishers/IPs.

 

[Games of Today]

Hence buy up all the big third party publishers/IPs.

True, true!

 

[Vox Machina]

Hence buy up all the big third party publishers/IPs.

The Series S crashed ATVI's stock price!

 

[skit_data]

Reading the thread I realize just exactly how far some peoples reasoning are from Steve Ballmers all time classic
"Developers! Developers!".