Support NeoGAF

[GamerMax73]

Like the idea, but man there are so many questions thrown up by this...

X1 or X2? I think it'll be a pivotal choice. Logically, given the timing and all, X2 should be pretty much a given at this stage.

How will the dock look and work? A Bluetooth/MiFi HDMI dongle would be the favourite solution IMHO.

Detachable controllers...? Number of buttons? Shoulder buttons? Motion control? Analogue sticks? Do they detach and combine for one player controller, or separate for two? Will it use just those controllers, or easily support additional bluetooth controllers?

Is the screen touch sensitive? What does that mean for TV play? Especially multiplayer?

Cartridges - not SD cards? What does this mean for downloadable games/content? Is there internal storage? Or will you be able to get blank cartridges? or SD to Cart adapters?

Price? I'm thinking more than £199 could be asking too much given it'd be competing with a pre-Neo/Scorpion PS4/XBox and likely more money than a new PS3/XB360.

While we're on price, how much are the Carts going to cost compared with the cost of disc based games on other formats?

Virtual Console? At least up to N64 if not GameCube support?

Get it right and it can be the perfect video games console. Especially for Nintendo's traditional younger target market. Watching my 3 and 5 year old nephews playing Lego on PS3 and Android games, I can see one device does all working for them.

But there's a lot here Ninty could easily get wrong. Most important of which will undoubtedly be the controllers and pricing.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

That's a horrible analogy. Nintendo selling multiple form factors is a win - win because the software catalogue is universal. It doesn't matter if one hardware sells more than the other - unlike your examples where they are two different platforms.

I wasn't meaning it as an analogy really. Just that they don't want to see a console version fail and get more Nintendo is doomed in the console market press. That's damning to their hardware future (which is fine by me tbh) since the market is dominated by the west that cares less and less about portables each year.

I agree about reaching people via multiple ways though. I've said repeatedly that they'd be wise to follow blizzards lead and put up their own Battle.net like ecosystem on PC as another way to get their games to more people. It wouldn't hurt their hardware sales much as their core market isn't the PC gamer type, but would allow them to sell their software to more people while remaking solely a first party company.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

I don't think the battery provides any additional power.

I was thinking more that the handheld would be running it's CPU/GPU at lower speeds to conserve battery life, but if it's plugged in then you wouldn't have to worry about that.

 

[KingSnake]

I don't think the battery provides any additional power.

This wasn't about additional power, but about switching from power saver mode to high performance mode when plugged in.

 

[Camarasketch]

I am sure that it will work this way:

-Buy a game and play it "portable", so you will get lower resolution, lower fps and so on...

-Go home and dock your NX. Now you can play the same game on your TV with bigger resolution, more fps and overall better graphics thanks to the power boost the dock provides+cooling system to assist that. ((Now you are playing with power!))

So basically, same game, two different ways to enjoy it. This makes me think that Nintendo will probably sell the dock as a separated element. If you are a handheld gamer, you will buy only the portable part of the console, the "core", but if you want to enjoy the full experience, you will have to buy the dock as well. I can imagine that with this technology they will be able to upgrade the console in the future by only selling new more advanced docks.

 

[Logash]

Like the idea, but man there are so many questions thrown up by this...

X1 or X2? I think it'll be a pivotal choice. Logically, given the timing and all, X2 should be pretty much a given at this stage.

My issue with them using the X2 is cost. While more power is always better, if Nintendo can sell this for $250-$300 I can't see it not being successful.

 

[Drackhorn]

This is a myth. Wii U and Gamecube had decent lineup on the first year (better than PS4's) and look at the sales.

It's basically marketing, market perception, and, to a certain degree, price.

And a humongous lack of third party support.

 

[patapuf]

The fact that it had a docking station and not just an HDMI out or HDMI streaming dongle, along worn the controllers detaching from the screen when used in console mode, cause people to reasonably infer that games will get boosted by the dock to run at higher respolution in console mode.

Right, i'd guess it'll just be the Handheld running in a more power consuming mode but the docking station could have some tech in it as well i suppose.

 

[G.ZZZ]

The idea that people think the dock is going to make a difference in performance is hilarious- as that point the dock might as well be it's own system.

It will though. Adding a fan and not having to run on battery mean that a docked mode could easily be twice as fast as handheld mode, possibly even more depending on what battery they use and for what duration they set for in handheld mode.

And said dock would cost literally nothing to Nintendo since it'd be nothing more but a fan and a charger with hdmi output

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Moving from 20nm to 16nm isn't that straightforward so I doubt Nvidia is going to shift Tegra X1 just for Nintendo's sake when they could boost sales of X2 instead.

They do it all the time for console refreshes and smaller form factors.

 

[KingSnake]

My issue with them using the X2 is cost. While more power is always better, if Nintendo can sell this for $250-$300 I can't see it not being successful.

The point is that X2 is not only about more power, but also better efficiency, so less power drain. So it's better for everything in case of a handheld.

 

[Lutherian]

Soooo, what's Retro Studios doing ? Can't believe they've been silent since Tropical Freeze (after that awful tweet "Can you dig it ?" before e3 2015...).

But never forget :

Kensuke Tanabe : "If we started (Metroid Prime 4) for Wii U now, it would likely take three years or so. So it would likely now be on Nintendo's NX console," he said

Ready to shove your missiles in Ridley's throat once and for all ?

 

[Taker666]

I don't think that would happen though. The console would be $250-300 either way. Nintendo's profit margin would just be higher. They aren't going to put out a $150-200 console as they'd worry about devaluing their brand etc.

The brand is already devalued in regards to home consoles. They'll never sell if they retail in the same ballpark as PS4 or Xbox One (even with third party support).

They need to position themselves as a powerful but cheap alternative for the masses..and as a good value second console for core gamers.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Why would the docking station give processing power?

You can just either shut down cores, or underclock the tegra for handheld mode (battery efficient) & 540/720p display. When powered through the dock, it goes back to normal operation @ 1080p. All with the same processor. Adding processing power to the dock + X1 would make things a lot more expensive than just having latest tech like X2 that would be 1) more powerful, 2) much better 16nm finfet process, 3) lower TDP, 4) less heat.

 

[Vaga]

We'll have to see the details but on the paper it's good for "everyone".

No it isn't. All rumours and "paper" specs lead to a concoction of mobile and handheld gaming on a device that doesn't cater to home console owners (read PS4/XB1). The fact that it outputs video to your TV doesn't help that.

And let's be honest a large part of Nintendo fans were expecting the NX to be on par with current gen consoles from Sony/MS.

 

[Squall5042]

Just remember that Nintendo doesn't usually chase the latest and greatest chips, I'm setting my expectations towards X1 levels of performance.

 

[KingSnake]

Why would the docking station give processing power?

You can just either shut down cores, or underclock the tegra for handheld mode (battery efficient) & 540/720p display. When powered through the dock, it goes back to normal operation @ 1080p. All with the same processor. Adding processing power to the dock + X1 would make things a lot more expensive than just having latest tech like X2 that would be 1) more powerful, 2) much better 16nm finfet process, 3) lower TDP, 4) less heat.

Yes, this is the most likely scenario.

People are speculating about adding power based on the SCD patent.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Why would the docking station give processing power?

You can just either shut down cores, or underclock the tegra for handheld mode (battery efficient) & 540/720p display. When powered through the dock, it goes back to normal operation @ 1080p. All with the same processor. Adding processing power to the dock + X1 would make things a lot more expensive than just having latest tech like X2 that would be 1) more powerful, 2) much better 16nm finfet process, 3) lower TDP, 4) less heat.

It's more to do with the patent insinuating that there could be a version of the dock with extra graphics hardware.

I suspect you're correct about the NX will function, and the dock you get with the NX out of the box won't have extra processing hardware.

 

[Doc_Drop]

There's a reason why the recent patent was exciting news.

From that comment I assume that noone has been able to do it yet/properly, which makes me more cynical towards a genuine performance boost from the base handheld model. Will wait and see

Its certainly interesting seeing so many happy at Nintendo not competing with MS/Sony as I'd have absolutely considered a console NX before buying either XB1 or PS4. Now I'm not so sure,they've got to knock it out of the park when they eventually reveal it

 

[MarkMclovin]

So a tablet with detachable controllers?

Urgh.

 

[Sadist]

Stage 3, bargaining

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Nintendo GO
Nintendo GO Home

(I made this joke like months ago, OK?)

Sounds like a good compromise for everyone. We'll see if Nintendo decides to go down that route.

Nintendo eunt ite domus m

Nintendo Item

 

[javac]

With the announcement of Just Dance on NX, I really wonder how that'll work. There's no way that would work in portable mode, so is the idea of having games only work in certain environments (TV mode with controllers) feasible or will that complicate things?

 

[GamerMax73]

I am sure that it will work this way:

-Buy a game and play it "portable", so you will get lower resolution, lower fps and so on...

Given the main GPU is in the NX device, and 1080p touch screens are pretty common these days, this makes little of no sense to me. About the only 'improvement' I could see a dock making is upscaling to 4K.

 

[EVH]

Stage 3, bargaining

I want to know the other stages because this one is on point.

 

[spekkeh]

Are there previous examples of a docking system increasing power of a handheld system?

Asus transformer book has been doing this for years. Lightweight tablet and discrete graphics, hdd and extra battery in the dock.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

My issue with them using the X2 is cost. While more power is always better, if Nintendo can sell this for $250-$300 I can't see it not being successful.

They could always use a cut-down X2 to improve yields and reduce costs, while still being significantly more powerful and efficient than an X1.

 

[diaspora]

It makes 0 sense as the purpose of the system would be to do both.
Having one system for all of the Nintendo games is greater than continue with the handheld/home separation.

It's supposed to make both sides happy as you're free to play (I guess) every games at home and/or anywhere else. Why would it even be a bad thing ?
We'll have to see the details but on the paper it's good for "everyone".

I mean, it quite literally is not. The hardware regardless of the thermal envelope is a dumpster fire for a home console.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Iwata said it's not a hybrid, and I can't imagine he'd lie about it....

Why would it have to have been a lie from Iwata? The company was floundering and under a ton of pressure from investors to make changes He died they shook up the management structure, got a new president etc.

It's entirely possible that they decided to go another direction than what Iwata was pursuing before his passing.

 

[Vaga]

Asus transformer book has been doing this for years. Lightweight tablet and discrete graphics, hdd and extra battery in the dock.

The dock simply added battery life not graphical power. At least that's what I remember from 4-5 years ago.

 

[iamaustrian]

Why are so many people booing on the Tegra Chip?

This thing already allows great Looking Games on Android platforms.
Now imagine the Boost it gets when it's Set free of the Android crutches.
I bet the NX will deliver breathtaking good looking Games for both, mobile and stationary.
Maybe not ps4 but close

 

[KingSnake]

With the announcement of Just Dance on NX, I really wonder how that'll work. There's no way that would work in portable mode, so is the idea of having games only work in certain environments (TV mode with controllers) feasible or will that complicate things?

Why wouldn't Just Dance work in the portable mode? That not many people would use it like this is a different thing, but it will work the same way in both modes.

The dock simply added battery life not graphical power. At least that's what I remember from 4-5 years ago.

Surface Book.

 

[pastrami]

They do it all the time for console refreshes and smaller form factors.

Eh, going from a 20/28nm planar process to a non-planar 14/16nm FinFET design is a bit different than a traditional die shrink. So no, they don't do it all the time.

 

[Rösti]

I'm not sure when exactly it will happen, but NVIDIA's second quarter FY 2017 financial results, together with, webcast ought to happen soon.

NVIDIA's second quarter FY16 financial results were published on August 6, 2015.

http://investor.nvidia.com/events.cfm

Maybe something can come from that?

 

[boneyjangles]

Lets not forget so far all successful handhelds haven't been too powerful.

540p or something wouldn't surprise me if it has great games, battery life, and runs at 60fps

Just as long as it's not doing that when the base-station is plugged into the TV,

 

[El Topo]

Lets not forget so far all successful handhelds haven't been too powerful.

540p or something wouldn't surprise me if it has great games, battery life, and runs at 60fps

Just as long as it's not doing that when the base-station is plugged into the TV,

Well, the handheld market isn't doing too well these days though.

 

[Otnopolit]

Why are so many people booing on the Tegra Chip?

This thing already allows great Looking Games on Android platforms.
Now imagine the Boost it gets when it's Set free of the Android crutches.
I bet the NX will deliver breathtaking good looking Games for both, mobile and stationary.
Maybe not ps4 but close

I'm not really seeing that in the Digital Foundry analysis. Sure, they do say that Nintendo is able to mine more power out of little with 3DS. But them showing me how well Doom 3 BFG edition runs and telling me it's a "super powered last gen console" is disheartening, especially if they don't use the X2. When it's literally right in front of them. Why. (There are plenty of reasons, but as a fan I want them to get this right, so I hope they have thought it through if they are settling for two year old chips.)

 

[Yado]

Just remember that Nintendo doesn't usually chase the latest and greatest chips, I'm setting my expectations towards X1 levels of performance.

Not to mention this has been in development for years. Are they known for switching to newer tech so close to release?

 

[KingSnake]

Well, the handheld market isn't doing too well these days though.

It's the only one left for Nintendo more or less.

 

[El Topo]

It's the only one left for Nintendo more or less.

I wasn't saying they had much choice left. None of their options seem great, so this may very well be their best bet. It's not sufficient to only look at the previous state of the handheld market though.

 

[Doc_Drop]

Asus transformer book has been doing this for years. Lightweight tablet and discrete graphics, hdd and extra battery in the dock.

Is there any proven gaming improvements in this case? I can understand the idea of the handheld device running in a power saver type mode with certain features tempered, I just have little faith in Nintendo managing to make this work in terms of delivering scalable performance boosts as we see in PC/console versions or PC games that run for different systems and configurations. I don't doubt their ability to upscale resolution for use on a TV screen, mostly the types of settings differences we can see when tuning a game's setting for smoothness of performance or enhancing visuals/tech

Genuinely curious, my intention is not to try and bag on Nintendo

 

[leandrochiarello]

I'm really afraid of these controllers....can it be that hard to just make a standard controller?

Did not like the idea of it being again underpowered as a home console, but its nice to have a decent spec handheld...

All I've really wanted was a standard console, with regular controllers and nintendo games.

Edit: no backwards compatibility is ridiculous, nintendo really doesn't get that its main strength is its library of games.

 

[KingSnake]

Is there any proven gaming improvements in this case? I can understand the idea of the handheld device running in a power saver type mode with certain features tempered, I just have little faith in Nintendo managing to make this work in terms of delivering scalable performance boosts as we see in PC/console versions or PC games that run for different systems and configurations. I don't doubt their ability to upscale resolution for use on a TV screen, mostly the types of settings differences we can see when tuning a game's setting for smoothness of performance or enhancing visuals/tech

Genuinely curious, my intention is not to try and bag on Nintendo

For Asus Transformer Book there are different power profiles for when just in tablet mode or when it's docked in the keyboard and has access to the extra battery. The difference in performance it's quite visible sometimes. I know because I have one.

But this is not something new, power profiles exist on laptops since forever.

What's new is what Surface Book does, with its optional Nvidia GPU in the keyboard.

 

[spekkeh]

The dock simply added battery life not graphical power. At least that's what I remember from 4-5 years ago.

Surface Book.

Heh, yeah, I remember the talk was that they were going to introduce a version with a discrete graphics card when they first introduced transformer book, but the introduction of convertibles got postponed and postponed and ultimately I settled on a Samsung book, which was the only one available back then (awful). But I see that Surface Book now finally implemented the dream last year.

 

[Galava]

What if these are detachable controllers that work like WiiMotes BUT, here comes the good part....

Nintendo sells different controller configurations that you can plug to the console. Maybe you like better joysticks, maybe you want the buttons on top and joysticks on bottom, or viceversa...

Game developers could release their own configurations for their games too.

It's the only reason I see, give plaers freedom to choose their controller config.

 

[El Topo]

Edit: no backwards compatibility is ridiculous, nintendo really doesn't get that its main strength is its library of games.

I'm a big proponent of backwards compatibility, but let us not fool ourselves that it is a big selling point. They're going to sell you their games again if necessary or they'll just make you buy an old console.

 

[Final Verdict]

I kinda like the idea, but execution will be everything

 

[leandrochiarello]

I'm a big proponent of backwards compatibility, but let us not fool ourselves that it is a big selling point. They're going to sell you their games again if necessary or they'll just make you buy an old console.

True.
The sad part is I'll buy Mario world, Dkc again and again...and they know it.

 

[Shiggy]

What if these are detachable controllers that work like WiiMotes BUT, here comes the good part....

Nintendo sells different controller configurations that you can plug to the console. Maybe you like better joysticks, maybe you want the buttons on top and joysticks on bottom, or viceversa...

Game developers could release their own configurations for their games too.

It's the only reason I see, give plaers freedom to choose their controller config.

That sounds like a terrible mess.
"Please insert two more buttons to play this game. "

 

[Galava]

That sounds like a terrible mess.
"Please insert two more buttons to play this game. "

But if they sold "pro" controls tell me people wouldn't buy it.