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Final Fantasy XVI is a Good Game

Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I just beat final fantasy xvi last night, and it made me realize a lot of posts on here (including my own in the past) claim it’s a bad game.

Let’s get it right out of the way — the game has issues, but some of these complaints are within other games this year that are getting far more praise. Oddly enough I think those complaints are blown way out of proportion but in context this is a game of its parts and not the overall package that shines.

Issues consist of:
- Awful Side quests. Only a few have some great writing and add to the overall story package. Too many are generic mmo filler. The complaint added to this issue is you often go to point X and stand as two characters just talk to each other…. You mean like in BG3 and Starfield? Difference here is it isn’t a giga close up in first person of awkward facial expressions.

- The game has poor pacing. After playing through all of it , no, it doesn’t. It DOES if you do all the side quests definitely because the game is back loaded. Final two chapters will dump 20+ on you when earlier game would maybe have 3 at most. They needed to be spread out more. The actual story is very well paced and knows how to keep a good roller coaster effect of highs and then chill a little to build back up.

- The game has piss easy combat. Yep. There’s no doubt the combat is flashy and to me was fun, especially once you get more eikon powers to tinker with, but at no point is anything remotely challenging. Even on final fantasy mode in NG+ it is all a joke. Not everything needs to be dark souls difficulty but I would’ve liked a couple bosses or hunts to give me some game over screens.

- The game has no real progression. It’s all on rails progression, and with how easy it is none of the upgrades you get actually matter.

- There is no reason to explore. Chests off the beaten path give you 10 scales for crafting. It’s a lot of empty vistas with a few enemies sprinkled throughout.

- The game could use visual changes to gear equipped not just your swords. Different armors, gauntlets , etc to change up Clive’s look.

- Square needs to stop putting 60% of the lore into books and notes you can read in these games.

————-

That’s the negatives. On paper it seems bad right ? But for me the good outweighs it by a metric mile. You have a game that has a wonderful story, cast of characters that shine, terrific voice acting and music(holy shit that soundtrack slaps) , fun combat to the credits, and some of the highest highs I’ve experienced in a game with boss fights. The sheer scope dwarfs prior attempts like God of War games.

I’ll also add the visuals are top notch, and as someone who loathes 30fps I promise you the quality mode with VRR forced is the ONLY game I’ve ever played where 30fps was buttery smooth. I wish more devs if they do 30fps modes would steal this voo doo magic and used it so it isn’t choppy and weird.

I prefer this game over 15&13, but I don’t think it trumps anything FF12 and prior. It DOES have my favorite protagonist with Clive, and I don’t think any FF game has presented a story better, but other FF have overall better packages. Like mentioned, it’s a sum of its parts.

There’s plenty to improve on here and all reasonable to do that FF17 could be a no brainer GOTY contender when it hits.

What did GAF think ? I dropped the game at the second time skip, but when I came back to it I was hooked and couldn’t put it down. Kupka onwards took the game to 11/10 status, but ultimately the game is a 9/10 for me in a year filled with superb titles like Zelda, BG3, etc.

I encourage anyone who dropped it to come back and finish it when the mood strikes. It’s worth the story payout and to experience the epic boss fights first hand.
 
It's solid but really wasn't what I was hoping for.
I prefer this game over 15&13, but I don’t think it trumps anything FF12 and prior.
I pretty much agree with this part and I do like Clive. Visually it's beautiful, but that damn decomposition of the plot half way through really gets to me. Really needed more RPG mechanics instead of just watering down to the point in which they may as well not be there. Should have had a more challenging option from the get go to further encourage the player to explore play options and combinations. It's not a bad game. A lot of your issues are on the nose.
 

Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
It's solid but really wasn't what I was hoping for.

I pretty much agree with this part and I do like Clive. Visually it's beautiful, but that damn decomposition of the plot half way through really gets to me. Really needed more RPG mechanics instead of just watering down to the point in which they may as well not be there. Should have had a more challenging option from the get go to further encourage the player to explore play options and combinations. It's not a bad game. A lot of your issues are on the nose.
I can totally see that those issues too are too much for someone, but they weren’t enough to detract me from the package. I enjoyed going through it and loved my time with it.

Ultimately it’s a lot of steps in the right direction for Square, and JRPGs as a whole have been subject to just gutter trash for so long that maybe it’s like being a thirsty man in the desert for so long. Even pee starts to look better than scorpion shit.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Wrong!

Streaker.gif
 

Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I liked it a lot.
I would prefer the numbered entries to move away from this approach in the future, but I won't deny that I had a very good time playing it.

I think there’s more than a solid blueprint here to build off of.

Perhaps having 4 characters you swap between each with their own skill sets that fill job roles like the ones in FF12 and FF5. Action combat akin to this game but with more spice would work.

Ideally fixing all the issues above to boot. Oddly enough some things are fixed in stranger of paradise of all places .
 

jimmypython

Member
Great game but you can really tell the game progression was made like a FF14 expansion but offline. battle system is fine but I really would prefer controllable party members, or at least have a gambit system to control their AI behaviour. Again, only one player controllable character and pure AI controlled party members are all from FF14 (the trust system)...

The side quests issue has been around since they introduced quest mark into the series. old FF games have side quests but you have to figure out where to go and who to talk to, which would naturally encourage good writing and players take their time to engage. But now, you just follow quest marks without the need of reading anything. So there is no incentive for the devs to actually write something good if people are just going to skip everything. of course these will be boring...
Actually, FF16 did better than most in terms of side quest writings even with this situation.
 
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IAmRei

Member
Beside negative, i give this game 8. Because the story and the gameplay is kinda good for me. The world design, the characters, it is damn so fine. I recall this sentiment also happened to final fantasy 9 back before
 

IAmRei

Member
It is genuinely a good game but like Starfield it got caught in the current console wars because it was exclusive to PS5
I cant be more agree with starfield, people might see it as good game if only that game also on ps5, this reminds me to astral chain back before
 

Madflavor

Member
The game sold itself as a Revenge Story, swept up in a world that was basically Game of Thrones with Kaijus. The whole game should've been like that, instead of the crystals and Ultima shit. Aside from that, what absolutely killed the game for a lot of people in my observations boiled down to three main things:
  • The Pacing is atrocious. Some of the worst I've seen in gaming. It typically goes like this:
    • 60 - 90 minutes of well written and well directed storytelling cutscenes, followed by a dungeon crawl that's basically straight hallways with battle after battle, followed by an amazing set piece fight.
    • 5 - 6 hours of MMO quest design that basically involves you going from NPC to NPC to NPC to NPC, talking to them. There are rarely any proper cutscenes during this time, it's basically just Clive and an NPC standing statically in front of each other exchanging dialogue. You occasionally are told to go kill something which takes all of 5 minutes, before it's back to more dialogue.
    • 60 - 90 minutes of the good stuff.
    • Back to 5 - 6 hours of the bad stuff.
    • Rinse and repeat.
  • The game is completely lacking in any meaningful RPG mechanics. There is no good reason the game couldn't have Elemental Damage, Buffs/Debuffs, Gear sets that provide passive bonuses and effects to your attacks/spells, party members with separate skill trees, and command bars with cooldowns for their skills. Think how it was handled in GoW: Ragnarok with Atreius and Freya.
  • There is nothing to do outside of the main story. Killing monsters and poorly designed side quests. That's it. No mini games, no explorable dungeons/caves, no nothing. The world is empty and boring.
They easily could've trimmed a lot of fat and brought the game length down to 15-20 hours, added more RPG mechanics, and FFXVI would've been received a lot better. I think it's a fine 7/10 game, that had every right to be a 10/10 if smarter people were making the decisions over at CBU3. There was a lot about FFXVI that sounded great on paper. Some of it they executed very well. Some of it they completely shit the bed on.


After watching the FFVII: Rebirth trailer, I think that game is REALLY going to shine a light on FFXVI's problems even further. Rebirth has so many going for it. A huge variety of environments to explore, an in-depth RPG combat system, mini-games galore, tons of places to explore, party members, etc.

Last thing I'll say is FFXVI had what I consider to be a Top Tier opening. The Prologue is some of the best, more riveting storytelling in the entire series. I'd like to know wtf happened, because the rest of the game was nowhere near the quality of it's first two hours. FFXVI had one of the best demos in gaming history (if you think about it, it really did). It was also one of the most deceitful.
 
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FeralEcho

Member
Its one of my favourite FF games and third favourite game of the year.It has really bad quest design but I loved everything about the story,characters and setpieces. It's an amazing game.
 

Fbh

Member
I enjoyed my time with it and I don't regret buying it.
But if Im trying to be objective it's a 7/10 at best. The story and music are the only good parts and even the story falters a bit towards the end IMO.

I honestly don't know how any self proclaimed professional reviewer gave it a higher score.

Said it in another thread but it felt like what could have been a 9/10 20 hours long action adventure game that then got merged with a 30 hours long 5/10 RPG at the last second.
 
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hyperbertha

Member
I just beat final fantasy xvi last night, and it made me realize a lot of posts on here (including my own in the past) claim it’s a bad game.

Let’s get it right out of the way — the game has issues, but some of these complaints are within other games this year that are getting far more praise. Oddly enough I think those complaints are blown way out of proportion but in context this is a game of its parts and not the overall package that shines.

Issues consist of:
- Awful Side quests. Only a few have some great writing and add to the overall story package. Too many are generic mmo filler. The complaint added to this issue is you often go to point X and stand as two characters just talk to each other…. You mean like in BG3 and Starfield? Difference here is it isn’t a giga close up in first person of awkward facial expressions.

- The game has poor pacing. After playing through all of it , no, it doesn’t. It DOES if you do all the side quests definitely because the game is back loaded. Final two chapters will dump 20+ on you when earlier game would maybe have 3 at most. They needed to be spread out more. The actual story is very well paced and knows how to keep a good roller coaster effect of highs and then chill a little to build back up.

- The game has piss easy combat. Yep. There’s no doubt the combat is flashy and to me was fun, especially once you get more eikon powers to tinker with, but at no point is anything remotely challenging. Even on final fantasy mode in NG+ it is all a joke. Not everything needs to be dark souls difficulty but I would’ve liked a couple bosses or hunts to give me some game over screens.

- The game has no real progression. It’s all on rails progression, and with how easy it is none of the upgrades you get actually matter.

- There is no reason to explore. Chests off the beaten path give you 10 scales for crafting. It’s a lot of empty vistas with a few enemies sprinkled throughout.

- The game could use visual changes to gear equipped not just your swords. Different armors, gauntlets , etc to change up Clive’s look.

- Square needs to stop putting 60% of the lore into books and notes you can read in these games.

————-

That’s the negatives. On paper it seems bad right ? But for me the good outweighs it by a metric mile. You have a game that has a wonderful story, cast of characters that shine, terrific voice acting and music(holy shit that soundtrack slaps) , fun combat to the credits, and some of the highest highs I’ve experienced in a game with boss fights. The sheer scope dwarfs prior attempts like God of War games.

I’ll also add the visuals are top notch, and as someone who loathes 30fps I promise you the quality mode with VRR forced is the ONLY game I’ve ever played where 30fps was buttery smooth. I wish more devs if they do 30fps modes would steal this voo doo magic and used it so it isn’t choppy and weird.

I prefer this game over 15&13, but I don’t think it trumps anything FF12 and prior. It DOES have my favorite protagonist with Clive, and I don’t think any FF game has presented a story better, but other FF have overall better packages. Like mentioned, it’s a sum of its parts.

There’s plenty to improve on here and all reasonable to do that FF17 could be a no brainer GOTY contender when it hits.

What did GAF think ? I dropped the game at the second time skip, but when I came back to it I was hooked and couldn’t put it down. Kupka onwards took the game to 11/10 status, but ultimately the game is a 9/10 for me in a year filled with superb titles like Zelda, BG3, etc.

I encourage anyone who dropped it to come back and finish it when the mood strikes. It’s worth the story payout and to experience the epic boss fights first hand.
But it doesn't have a wonderful story imo. The first half is intriguing. But it turns predictable and generic fast.
 

Doom85

Member
It’s good for a character action game (though hardly one of the better ones), but fails at being a JRPG. It could have balanced both like Nier Automata did perfectly, but nope. Instead, leveling barely matters, equipment upgrades are minimal and only affect stats, there’s no elemental weaknesses or resistances, exploration is limited and barely matters, dungeons are super linear, a ton of side quest options like Hunts take forever to unlock, etc.

It‘s funny, some people got upset when suggesting JRPGs take inspiration from Baldur’s Gate 3, yet in spite of not being a JRPG, BG 3 more resembles a JRPG than FF XVI.

Like, seriously, the supposed “this isn’t in my JRPGs!” elements actually have been in some JRPGs:

-silent protagonist with dialogue options: Persona games, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Devil Survivor
-design your own character(s): Xenoblade Chronicles X, Pokémon, Demon Gaze
-dice rolls: Voice of Cards
-choices change the story: Fire Emblem Three Houses, Fire Emblem Sacred Stones
-low level cap: Paper Mario, older Fire Emblem games, also not really a low level cap when each level gained offers a bigger difference than a usual JRPG level gain

And with controller, you can move your character like a standard JRPG, and the combat is really not that different from a strategy JRPG, you simply have more combat options.

Also, the waifu options in BG 3 are superior to those of FF XVI. :messenger_winking:

Like, it’s funny people hide behind the “FF has always evolved” defense, and it’s like, “cool, can it evolve as a JRPG and not just become Devil May Cry with Hard More locked behind NG+? Thanks!”

Thankfully, Final Fantasy VII Rebirth shows at least some people at Square know how to make a game that respects both the action and RPG elements.
 

Ozzie666

Member
It's not a good ' Final Fantasy Game'. If it was something else, who knows. Pretty looking and great audio but bad pacing, extremely linear, side quests are laughable, main quest just dies for long stretches.

If you take away the FF title, what would it be? Just another game. Would it be better than Forspoken?
 

jorgejjvr

Member
Its one of my favourite FF games and third favourite game of the year.It has really bad quest design but I loved everything about the story,characters and setpieces. It's an amazing game.
But gameplay though, it's still a game after all, thats the most important part
 

Vblad88

Member
If Final Fantasy ever was 10/10, it would be extremely boring. I don’t agree with pacing being wrong. The high moments deliver so much goodness that you have to start to miss them, not to get overwhelmed by them. So don't worry, eat your carrots before the cake, it is worth it.
 
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Gandih42

Member
I really liked the game and would also describe it as a good game with a lot of flaws. Currently on NG+, and the combat is still really fun, experimenting with different builds.

I think the story delivers for the most part, especially on the character front. In the end, It's Clives story more than anything else and has a strong and emotional finale.

But I also think it could have satisfied people a lot more (myself included) if it had delivered on the GoT/Robin Hood/Slavery angle. To me, a good approach would be to have a bigger focus on liberation of Bearers before truly switching over to the more typical FF world ending stuff (for anyone who've watched Gurren Lagann, that show does the switch perfectly).

Ultimately, I think they were overly ambitious with some parts of the game, leaving it somewhat unbalanced in it's content. Which I'm quite happy with, it's a bit weird and different in that regard. Harkens back to set piece driven games from the PS3/360 era, which we don't really get anymore. I really hope Square makes good use of all the things that worked in 16, because I think there's still a lot more potential.
 
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