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Gamespot - Playstation Meeting (450 Dev Kits shipped, Nvidia programming, partners )
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
I still believe that if the 360 launches first with a $299 price tag, Sony will get pressured to keep the price in the $299-$349 range. Then again they can always play the "We're launching later, which means newer, better and more powerful hardware" card to try and justify the price.
krypt0nian
Banned
littlewig said:
No you see that only works with Nintendo delusions....poor form.
It was close to that in Japan when it launched, with the conversion and all. So it's not out of the realm of possibility. And seeing the crap they pulled with the PSP, I wouldn't doubt it. I just don't think they could be that stupid. I can see it being a flop at anything over $350, and even that's too steep IMO. But I'm just cheap, and I'll never pay more than $300 for a console. If the PS3 is $350-400, I will have a 360, and preorder a fucking Rev. Then again, there's no guarantee the 360 will be $300 either. :? PEACE.llTll said:
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
What are the chances these PS3=$$$ statements from K.K. are just a headfake towards Microsoft?
$400 I could see....but more than that would be pushing it....
$400 I could see....but more than that would be pushing it....
Removing BR is not an option. And it's not the cost leader in the system. BR has been a part of the PS3 spec for over a year. Hell, it was the first PS3 spec, b/c we didn't get Cell or RSX details until this year. It will not be removed. Not now, not ever. Guaran-damn-teed. If they remove the BR drive, that format is almost dead in the water IMO. There will be no trojan horse, and with HDTV penetration so low, there will be no incentive to move on from DVD. BR is as much a part of the PS3 as Cell and RSX IMO. I can't see them yanking that drive for the world. PEACE.Rhindle said:
you people don't get it do you? Sony is not adding blu-ray to the ps3 to advance the cause of the ps3, they are doing it to advance the prospects of BLU-RAY. The brd is the one thing GUARANTEEEEEED not to be removed and sony will sellout of every single launch unit they make, even at a 500 dollar price point. The ps3 isn't another console to the average consumer, its is video gaming period. Xbots seem to forget that when average consumers in Wal-Mart and toysrus think video games, they think playstation and the hype for the ps3 will be HUGE. I think sony will launch at a high price point, xbots will claim doom n gloom, sony will sellout every single console unit they make, then drop the price for the 07.
The ps3 is not aimed at little Johnny that needs mommy to buy him a game. It is aimed at the same people that happily put down 300+ dollars for an ipod that does NOTHING buy play mp3s. Get a job folks.
The ps3 is not aimed at little Johnny that needs mommy to buy him a game. It is aimed at the same people that happily put down 300+ dollars for an ipod that does NOTHING buy play mp3s. Get a job folks.
llTll said:
Your analogies suck, both of you. When Nintendo was on top, they acted like their balls were the size of the moon. As the industry grew, so did their balls' respective counterparts. So, Sony is acting like their balls are the size of the Earth, not the moon. And MS will act like theirs is the size of the Sun, that's assuming they don't choose the next largest planet, but seriously, who cares about any other planet? PEACE
Doube D said:
couldnt say it better.
Thank you
its even going to be backed in with:
1- the most powerful console
2- next gen DVD player.
3- amazing games like MGS GTA, Tekken, Final Fantasy and so on.
4- the brand name of playstation
these 4 things alone [ not including anything else] will make the console huge seller
Mupepe said:
can someone translate that?
i didnt get it.
are you saying that Sony kicked nintendo when nintendo was the leader?
dont compare Sony to Nintendo. Sony wont get the shaft because they are using Next Gen format. Nintendo got the shaft because they were using old format on a new console [ read MicroSoft]
Sony so far has been doing nothing but amazing stuff for ps3. great dev kits, powerful console. great games.
they wont give it to you for free. and if you are going to complain about 100$ you are going to pay more than normal 300$ to get all those functions, then you are not a gamer. and its better for you to buy GC because its cheaper
[ if that wasnt your point. then please ignore ]
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Translation=it was a joke 
CaptainSimian
Member
I'm calling it: Sony will extract a pound of flesh in payment for the PS3.
Luscious LeftFoot
Member
Striek said:
That's the way I'm seeing it as well. You already have wild speculation by the media and fans that the system will be $450+, something you never hear with xbox360, all the while fueling the belief that it's a ridiculously more powerful console. So when they do launch, probably at a slightly higher pricepoint than 360, say around $349, people will think more value at only a slightly higher cost.
SolidSnakex
Member
We aren't up to think the PS3 is going to cost 500 yet? So close to what so many people were thinking the PS2 was going to cost.
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
The more I read about PS3, the more the PSP makes sense in a way. With all these news stories, the odds of the PS3 being anywhere near $300 is 0. Its not going to happen. Now they are talking about having a launch for the US in the Spring. The PSP could very well just be a stopgap for people to play new Sony titles and wait until the PS3 drops to an affordable price. Not now, I mean in 2006 when people rush to order PS3s but find out from the EB clerk that its $399 (or more, considering how it will be bundled most likely). Then they get a PSP in the meantime and wait a year until its $299 or lower.
Then by the time PS3 is affordable for all (which will be 2007-2008), the PSP will have ran its course and the plan for it to be a stopgap is complete with probably 20-25 million units sold, enough for Sony to make a tidy profit off of.
I'm waiting for TGS personally. I want some more titles announced but none of the E3 ones look good enough. If there is a DW6 for the launch, I'm sold
Then by the time PS3 is affordable for all (which will be 2007-2008), the PSP will have ran its course and the plan for it to be a stopgap is complete with probably 20-25 million units sold, enough for Sony to make a tidy profit off of.
I'm waiting for TGS personally. I want some more titles announced but none of the E3 ones look good enough. If there is a DW6 for the launch, I'm sold
poppin fresh
Member
I can see game costs going up next gen.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
I could see perhaps $400 max *but* during E3, there was an interview that said PS3 would be under 40,000 Yen just like PSOne and PS2 during launch...
If true, $299 at US launch could be a possibility :drool...
Best part is, MS is making Sony fight hard and vice versa...
Like the Carley Simon song says: "These are the good 'Ol days"
If true, $299 at US launch could be a possibility :drool...
Best part is, MS is making Sony fight hard and vice versa...
Like the Carley Simon song says: "These are the good 'Ol days"
CabbageRed
Member
I would not be at all surprised to see the PS3 launch at a very high price but quickly drop in order to take advantage of early adapters but still keep sales steady.
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
I think MS will go for the $349 Price Point at launch and the PS3 will go for the $399 Price Point. Rev will probably come in at $249 or $199.
Straightballin
Member
They only have 300 units out because they dont want to pay the S&H for that bitch.
Hmm...there were more interesting details hiding away in that article:
?? Havok & AGEIA will be free to PS3 developers? Is Sony including a license for each with every kit?
Havok comes with every X360 kit, but I assumed that if you actually wanted to use it in a game you'd have to pay further fees.
Can anyone clear that up?
Also, some other interesting bits:
I really want to see that demo directfeed. The higher quality photos of it looked much more impressive than IGN's footage might lead you to believe.
?? Havok & AGEIA will be free to PS3 developers? Is Sony including a license for each with every kit?
Havok comes with every X360 kit, but I assumed that if you actually wanted to use it in a game you'd have to pay further fees.
Can anyone clear that up?
Also, some other interesting bits:
I really want to see that demo directfeed. The higher quality photos of it looked much more impressive than IGN's footage might lead you to believe.
Straightballin
Member
Thats some really intresting info
Some other related bits and bobs from PC Watch Impress:
Another look at the PS3 dev kit:
Some more info on the constitution of the second, and latest, evaluation system:
The bandwidth in the evaluation system is severely constrained versus the final hardware - the GPU is using PCi Express 4x, for 2GB/s of bandwidth. Cell communicates with the southbridge at 5GB/s. The final system will see 35GB/s between RSX and Cell in comparison.
Because of the relatively constrained bandwidth between Cell and G70 in the evaluation system, the G70 in there has 512MB of local memory - the G70 in the kit cannot access main memory in the same way RSX will be able to.
The article wraps up with some of PC Watch Impress's own commentary on Cell<->RSX and their relationship, discussing the things the current kits can't allow that the final hardware will. e.g. doing lots of vertex work on cell and passing the data on to RSX. Or on the other side, taking data from RSX for post-processing (pixels), or being able to maintain very high numbers of vertices even with per-vertex collision detection. In systems with low bandwidth between CPU and GPU, e.g. PCs, if you want to do per vertex collision detection, you may need to cut down on how many vertices you use, even if your GPU is capable of more, since with high vertex loads you may not be able to pass back your vertex data from GPU to CPU every frame. For example, with PCi Express 16x, assuming 60 frames per second, the GPU could write back up to ~68MB of data to the CPU every frame (or ~4.5m vertices, uncompressed). On PS3, it'll be able to write back up to 256MB per frame (or ~16.75m vertices, uncompressed). Obviously, you'll be using GPU-to-CPU bandwidth for more things, but you get the idea (basically a ~4x difference if you need to do that kind of work). They also talk about how a developer could balance between Cell and the GPU depending on their priorities. If the GPU becomes the bottleneck (i.e. high graphics load), you could use Cell to take some of the load and speed things up. If the graphics are handled fine on the GPU, then you can tip the balance back into physics and such.
Basically they conclude that it may be the best of both the console world (relatively high geometry) and the PC world (relatively high "expression" e.g. pixel work), and that with current demonstrations and such, they cannot be making the most of this key characteristic (CPU<->GPU). This is also a characteristic in X360, at least relative to PCs, but with less resources on the CPU side.
Another look at the PS3 dev kit:
Some more info on the constitution of the second, and latest, evaluation system:
The bandwidth in the evaluation system is severely constrained versus the final hardware - the GPU is using PCi Express 4x, for 2GB/s of bandwidth. Cell communicates with the southbridge at 5GB/s. The final system will see 35GB/s between RSX and Cell in comparison.
Because of the relatively constrained bandwidth between Cell and G70 in the evaluation system, the G70 in there has 512MB of local memory - the G70 in the kit cannot access main memory in the same way RSX will be able to.
The article wraps up with some of PC Watch Impress's own commentary on Cell<->RSX and their relationship, discussing the things the current kits can't allow that the final hardware will. e.g. doing lots of vertex work on cell and passing the data on to RSX. Or on the other side, taking data from RSX for post-processing (pixels), or being able to maintain very high numbers of vertices even with per-vertex collision detection. In systems with low bandwidth between CPU and GPU, e.g. PCs, if you want to do per vertex collision detection, you may need to cut down on how many vertices you use, even if your GPU is capable of more, since with high vertex loads you may not be able to pass back your vertex data from GPU to CPU every frame. For example, with PCi Express 16x, assuming 60 frames per second, the GPU could write back up to ~68MB of data to the CPU every frame (or ~4.5m vertices, uncompressed). On PS3, it'll be able to write back up to 256MB per frame (or ~16.75m vertices, uncompressed). Obviously, you'll be using GPU-to-CPU bandwidth for more things, but you get the idea (basically a ~4x difference if you need to do that kind of work). They also talk about how a developer could balance between Cell and the GPU depending on their priorities. If the GPU becomes the bottleneck (i.e. high graphics load), you could use Cell to take some of the load and speed things up. If the graphics are handled fine on the GPU, then you can tip the balance back into physics and such.
Basically they conclude that it may be the best of both the console world (relatively high geometry) and the PC world (relatively high "expression" e.g. pixel work), and that with current demonstrations and such, they cannot be making the most of this key characteristic (CPU<->GPU). This is also a characteristic in X360, at least relative to PCs, but with less resources on the CPU side.
DCX
DCX
I won't be surprised if launched at 499 but with extras kinda like a value pack with a Blu-Ray movie, a 128 MB Memory Stick maybe a demo disk. Throw aways especially if Sony owns the techs to what's being given away, i mean hell the demo disk could just be the ducks one track of Vision GT and Molina and they can get away with that. A stand Alone would be like 399-429.
DCX
DCX
celestial body
Member
I thought the latest PS3 evaluation Kit still had a 2.4 GHz Cell, at least according to those slides you posted a few days ago. Is Goto speculating again?
celestial body said:
Yup, that's one mistake with their diagram.
Also, something that is confusing me is that whilst they say in the diagram that the G70 in the current system has 2GB/s to the southbridge, later in their own commentary on the article, they say it was 8GB/s up and down. 2GB/s is in line with PCi Express 4x, which is what the main article appears to say the GPU is using currently, while 8GB/s would be in line with PCi-Express 16x.
I guess something's getting lost in the translation. The article is here if anyone can do a better job than google
: http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0722/kaigai199.htmEverytime Sony announces new hardware, it's going to be soooooo expensive...yet they always get the price down. I still believe that $299 for the US will be the pricepoint they hit. Of course, it could be higher in Japan...which actually affects me more. :\
evilromero
Member
Damn. I really want to get the PS3 at launch but if it's over $300 I'm just going to wait.
monchi-kun
Member
evilromero said:
i'll be getting it at launch....i'm glad 360 and ps3 are staggered which means i can recover from my 360 purchase just in time for Sony's new hardware
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
gofreak said:Some other related bits and bobs from PC Watch Impress:
Another look at the PS3 dev kit:
Some more info on the constitution of the second, and latest, evaluation system:
The bandwidth in the evaluation system is severely constrained versus the final hardware - the GPU is using PCi Express 4x, for 2GB/s of bandwidth. Cell communicates with the southbridge at 5GB/s. The final system will see 35GB/s between RSX and Cell in comparison.
Because of the relatively constrained bandwidth between Cell and G70 in the evaluation system, the G70 in there has 512MB of local memory - the G70 in the kit cannot access main memory in the same way RSX will be able to.
The article wraps up with some of PC Watch Impress's own commentary on Cell<->RSX and their relationship, discussing the things the current kits can't allow that the final hardware will. e.g. doing lots of vertex work on cell and passing the data on to RSX. Or on the other side, taking data from RSX for post-processing (pixels), or being able to maintain very high numbers of vertices even with per-vertex collision detection. In systems with low bandwidth between CPU and GPU, e.g. PCs, if you want to do per vertex collision detection, you may need to cut down on how many vertices you use, even if your GPU is capable of more, since with high vertex loads you may not be able to pass back your vertex data from GPU to CPU every frame. For example, with PCi Express 16x, assuming 60 frames per second, the GPU could write back up to ~68MB of data to the CPU every frame (or ~4.5m vertices, uncompressed). On PS3, it'll be able to write back up to 256MB per frame (or ~16.75m vertices, uncompressed). Obviously, you'll be using GPU-to-CPU bandwidth for more things, but you get the idea (basically a ~4x difference if you need to do that kind of work). They also talk about how a developer could balance between Cell and the GPU depending on their priorities. If the GPU becomes the bottleneck (i.e. high graphics load), you could use Cell to take some of the load and speed things up. If the graphics are handled fine on the GPU, then you can tip the balance back into physics and such.
Basically they conclude that it may be the best of both the console world (relatively high geometry) and the PC world (relatively high "expression" e.g. pixel work), and that with current demonstrations and such, they cannot be making the most of this key characteristic (CPU<->GPU). This is also a characteristic in X360, at least relative to PCs, but with less resources on the CPU side.
*Mr. Spock voice*
Facinating!!!!
So that means that with the current Evaluation systems, the max polys per sec @ 60 frames would be 135 millon polygons per second (4.5million * 60 * 0.5 because it takes 2 verticies to make one polygon) whereas with a FlexIO equipped PS3 or PS3 Dev station that jumps to more than a half a billion polygons per second (16.75 * 60 * 0.5=502.5Mpps)...
Imagine the scene complexity you could do with even 2 or 3 million polys per frame!!!
Main characters with half a million poly meshes would not be out of the question!!
No doubt that would look like CG then!
Kleegamefan said:*Mr. Spock voice*
Facinating!!!!
So that means that with the current Evaluation systems, the max polys per sec @ 60 frames would be 135 millon polygons per second (4.5million * 60 * 0.5 because it takes 2 verticies to make one polygon) whereas with a FlexIO equipped PS3 or PS3 Dev station that jumps to more than a half a billion polygons per second (16.75 * 60 * 0.5=502.5Mpps)...
Imagine the scene complexity you could do with even 2 or 3 million polys per frame!!!
Main characters with half a million poly meshes would not be out of the question!!
No doubt that would look like CG then!
You sure about that? I may be mistaken, but IIRC after you get a model with a few polys going, the shared vertices mean vertice number ~/= triangle/poly number in most scenarios.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
If so, then double the PPS numbers (270Mpps and 1.05Gpps)
8^O
8^O
monkeymagic
Banned
evil ways said:
The problem with these threads is that most people invariably take very US-centric view when it comes to pricing largely ignoring Japanese and European pricing
Europe will be the biggest market next gen and here Sony can charge $450-$600 for the PS3 making a $299 US pricepoint very bearable.
Japanese launch price will also be closer to $400 than $299.
The point is Sony can leverage its utter domination in Japan and Europe to fight the good fight where it's challenged most - the US.