http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...r-energiewende-low-carbon-goals-a7719006.html
War on coal me if old
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Germanys Renewable Sources Provide 85% Of Energy For The First Time
- Thread starter Xando
- Start date
War on coal me if old
Patrick S.
Banned
Danke Mutti!
PdotMichael
Banned
Just imagine countries like Australia would embrace renewable energy. They could profit so much from the next gen solar panels.
Gotta store that energy for the night time. There's the problem.
PdotMichael
Banned
* at peak
The first thing Germany needs to do is cut the goddamn coal. Going coal->gas is a bigger jump than going coal->renewable, and much easier too.
Renewable energy replaces that what get offline first. Coal energy plants are the next one after nuclear energy and running more often just for the export because of the limited abilities to regulate output.
DrROBschiz
Member
Still feel they should keep Nuclear on the table if there ever is another economical flagship model produced
But hey if they can run the entire country on Solar and wind with no issues than more power to them for being a positive example to the world
But hey if they can run the entire country on Solar and wind with no issues than more power to them for being a positive example to the world
I can't believe I'm wishing America were more like Germany every week.
CDU is busy cutting support for renewables and SPD is bending over for the coal industry cause they don't wanna lose the vote of miners.
It ain't perfect.
* at peak
The first thing Germany needs to do is cut the goddamn coal. Going coal->gas is a bigger jump than going coal->renewable, and much easier too.
AFAIK the gas powerplants had a big setback because coal is much cheaper than gas...
SporeCrawler
Member
Mutti is redredgreen
I hate to be the guy coming in and trying to one up Germany, but this reminds me of this cool site showing in real-time how electricity currently in use in Ontario (Canadian province) is being generated
A big part of Ontario's transition away from carbon sources is nuclear, and it seems like an wasteful handicap to avoid it.
A big part of Ontario's transition away from carbon sources is nuclear, and it seems like an wasteful handicap to avoid it.
LegendofJoe
Member
I'd do just about anything for my kids to grow up in Germany.
DrROBschiz
Member
hanspampel
Banned
nice
so we can continue to pay our neighbors millions, for taking our energy
so we can continue to pay our neighbors millions, for taking our energy
Fortunately, that's the case now with batteries. And several countries give a dam again.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
I second this plane picture. Get me out of brexit britain
It astounds me how there are so many innovative countries out there. Meanwhile ours lags behind and goes for the same old same old.
It astounds me how there are so many innovative countries out there. Meanwhile ours lags behind and goes for the same old same old.
They purposely decided to cut off nuclear energy by 2022 because of fukushima and the problems that come with storing nuclear waste.
Coal is already getting expensive as fuck compared to reneweables and will get less and less use as technology gets better.
Muppet of a Man
Member
No need to shy away from nuclear as a replacement for baseload power. Gen 4+ fission (LFTRs and other MSRs) should be the first stop, followed by fusion when that becomes viable. But if somehow they can manage 100 percent renewables consistently, then good on them.
DrROBschiz
Member
Its only waste if we never endeavor to process it
the technology exist but the economics are stifled thanks to ignorance and fear mongering
Of course they did.
My point is roughly as follows:
You need to generate some GWhs of energy.
(NUMBERS SIMPLIFIED FOR SAKE OF ARGUMENT. More or less accurate)
Your current breakdown is Coal for 40% at 4c/kwh, 30% gas at 6c/kwh, and renewables at 30% for 15c/kwh.
Coal emits roughly double the shit of gas.
So, it's pretty economical to move as much stuff to gas, or at least keep the gas (and nuclear!) plants running - because running half coal, half renewables is the same as running full gas, emissions-wise, but much more costly.
Not that i oppose building wind farms and solar plants, but that coal must go, fast
batteries? Is this a joke?
Realistically, you can't have a grid with more than 20-40% of wind+solar right now, unless you overbuild a lot.
There are no grid-relevant batteries in the world.
So until someone can process it we're stuck with the waste. Especially because nuclear energy providers wanted the german goverment(and the taxpayer) to take care of the waste.
shawnbuddy
Member
That stuff don't work, though, guys. I heard it on Fox News.
Nuclear energy, even fission, is a good example of a solution right in front of us but not taken due to ignorance. People afraid of radiation should do some research on the amount of carsinogenic substances that coal, cars and other fossil fuel sources produce. The damage from Chernobyl and Fukushima are peanuts compared to three decades of shit that the other energy sources have put into nature.
Delusibeta
Banned
Ironically, Britain also had an energy generation first recently: an entire 24 hour period with the coal power stations off.I second this plane picture. Get me out of brexit britain
It astounds me how there are so many innovative countries out there. Meanwhile ours lags behind and goes for the same old same old.
* at peak
The first thing Germany needs to do is cut the goddamn coal. Going coal->gas is a bigger jump than going coal->renewable, and much easier too.
We dont have Gas and would be dependent on russian gas.
And coal power plants are easier to power up and shut down, so if there is a peak in renewable we can easily shut down some coal plants, if there is more need of power, we can start some coal plants.
and where do you store the waste?
ClosingADoor
Member
Too bad we can't pump up more in Holland anymore, since part of the country will collapse into the ground it seems.
Somewhere underground. Ask the French. They have a ton of nuclear going on.
Glad to see Germany continues to strive towards fossil independence, is the decision to close down nuclear before fossil a pragmatic one or merely political?
Literally the energy source that causes the least amount of deaths is the one that is the most feared, it would be hilarious if it wasn't for the severe consequences of irrational decision making in regards to energy production.
Literally the energy source that causes the least amount of deaths is the one that is the most feared, it would be hilarious if it wasn't for the severe consequences of irrational decision making in regards to energy production.
PdotMichael
Banned
The industry can't handle 4+ gen plants. Why would anyone join that mess if there are better and cheaper alternatives?
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Ah, forgot about that one, my mistake. It's good that we at least take our climate change responsibilities seriously then, for all the complaints I have about the state of this country for the past year or so.
Not a joke. The battery production is expected to increase multiple times in the near future. Consequently, the price per kwh continues to fall.
In Switzerland, the discussion about batteries as temporary storage is already there; and funnily, the tech (or price for said tech) isn't the main problem, it's the current tax law.
Uhh.. peaking plants are generally gas turbines. Coal is more for baseline.
There's been movement in that area, but gas is still definitely the easiest to power and shut.
Err, i literally work in a solar power analysis firm.
A battery pack that our partners offer to "Get off the grid" will generally run the client more than the solar panels, and will only last 5-8y (against the 30+ of the solar panels), and it's still nowhere near 100% efficiency.
Battery tech isn't there. Nowhere near there.
The issue is that if you want to go deep, you need to plan for winter, and possible 2weeks+ bad weather, which will also be the most energy-intensive points.
We can definitely solve night\day, but bad weather is nowhere near solved.
(A battery will still run you about 200 $/kwh at wholesale, and around 1000/kw of surge power. For comparison, generation via solar panels will run you significantly less than that for peak power - getting to 800$/kw wholesale in southern Italy)
I love how no one thinks to include the cost of not dealing with climate change. The eventual cost to us all will go far beyond just monetary value, and that value alone will be to the trillions. Weird how no one ever counts that cost..
PdotMichael
Banned
It's also funny because without massuve subsidies there wouldn't be a single nuclear power plant.
Meanwhile the new offshore wind parks in Germany and Denmark barely or don't even need any subsidies. The technological potential for further improvements in renewable energy is still massive.
We are also expecting that solar energy will make a big return with the next gen solar panals.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Lol Germany get on our clean coal level.
As has been said, the feasible alternative to nuclear right now is coal and that has bad environmental effects, and not just when things go wrong, but as a part of normal operation.
As for the waste, I'm sure something could be worked out. If necessary it could be shipped elsewhere to be put away. Europe is pretty dense but we've got plenty of 'bum-fuck nowhere' here in Canada, and it'd be preferable to take in a bunch of nuclear waste consensually then to be forced to accept air pollution from other countries (not that Germany is anywhere near our biggest concern with air pollution).
DrROBschiz
Member
the argument being we shouldnt be shying away from developing nuclear to its next stage either
Fast Forward
Member
Big congrats to Germany. A great example we should inspire to be more like.
Sadly, with the current administration's in place, America will continue to lag far behind.
Sadly, with the current administration's in place, America will continue to lag far behind.
That's actually pretty good. I mean, we don't need to rid of other energy storages just because of batteries.
Maedre
Banned
Maybe the same time when our neighbors start to close their of and faulty nuclear power plants...
PdotMichael
Banned
Renewable energy renders large nuclear power plants obsolete. The last thing you want at times when renewable wnergy sources produce so much energy that you literally pay other countries to take that energy just because you have nuclear power plants which can't regulate their output fast enough.
Also the fact that the cost for building and demolishing nuclear power plants that the public is forced to pay often the majority without profiting of sinking energy prices.
PdotMichael
Banned
When those countries stop buying coal energy from Germany.
... who are located straight at the boarder to germany.
Doesn't change the fact that it's nowhere near replacing fossil fuels. And we're only talking about covering electricity demand, we're not even talking about all the other sectors still using fossil fuel. It remains a gimmick.
PdotMichael
Banned
Tell that to China.