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Hardware Unboxed: Confirmation of Intel CPU Silicon Degradation + Intel's Poor Treatment of Board Partners & Consumers

Chiggs

Chiggs

Gold Member
*Another* shitfest for Intel seems to be turning into a bigger shitfest if Hardware Unboxed, and their sources, are to be believed.

Here's what's happening:
  • The much-discussed power draw limit issue ISN'T really a power draw issue; it's a silicon degradation issue. đź’€
  • Intel's poor communication with, and poor treatment of, board partners is one of the hot topics at Computex.
    • This is especially true about the supposed "profiles' that are supposed to "fix" the problem.
    • Board partners are, apparently, livid, because they're not even sure what profiles are even supposed to be set as default. :messenger_dizzy:
      • Some board partners are reaching out to Hardware Unboxed for advice. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
  • Major concerns about how Intel plans on handling RMAs, and speculation that Intel is doing everything and anything to get around it, hence the laughable profiles.
Check it out below:

 
Last edited:
winjer

winjer

Member
Intel really needs to follow AMD's and Nvidia's process of tight regulation and validation of it's power delivery and safety measures.
And of course, talk to their own board partners.

This mentality of pushing clocks, regardless of power usage, safety and longevity, has to change.
 
StereoVsn

StereoVsn

Member
winjer said:
Intel really needs to follow AMD's and Nvidia's process of tight regulation and validation of it's power delivery and safety measures.
And of course, talk to their own board partners.

This mentality of pushing clocks, regardless of power usage, safety and longevity, has to change.
Click to expand...
Let’s not praise AMD too high. We JUST had the whole AM5 RAM power envelope fiasco not that long ago.

But yeah, this is fucking stupid on Intel’s part. What the hell are they doing and they really think nobody would notice this shit?

Now they are going to get HUB, GN and other more technical minded YouTubers going after this.
 
peish

peish

Gold Member
Chiggs said:
*Another* shitfest for Intel seems to be turning into a bigger shitfest if Hardware Unboxed, and their sources, are to be believed.

Here's what's happening:
  • The much-discussed power draw limit issue ISN'T really a power draw issue; it's a silicon degradation issue. đź’€
  • Intel's poor communication with, and poor treatment of, board partners is one of the hot topics at Computex.
    • This is especially true about the supposed "profiles' that are supposed to "fix" the problem.
    • Board partners are, apparently, livid, because they're not even sure what profiles are even supposed to be set as default. :messenger_dizzy:
      • Some board partners are reaching out to Hardware Unboxed for advice. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
  • Major concerns about how Intel plans on handling RMAs, and speculation that Intel is doing everything and anything to get around it, hence the laughable profiles.
Check it out below:

Click to expand...


Intel is in a weird spot. They have for so long, allows no limits for the users to tweak around.

I am not sure why suddenly with 14900K this becomes a bad thing, how many of the CPU are degrading? If you want to OC, you better know your way around and keep expectations right
 
poppabk

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I have it on good authority that using Intels recommended profiles is just a way of gimping intels unassailable hardware.
 
Chiggs

Chiggs

Gold Member
peish said:
Intel is in a weird spot. They have for so long, allows no limits for the users to tweak around.

I am not sure why suddenly with 14900K this becomes a bad thing, how many of the CPU are degrading? If you want to OC, you better know your way around and keep expectations right
Click to expand...

I don't think that's what Hardware Unboxed is getting at. They're basically saying that Intel has released a chip that can't handle the clocks or speed they're advertised to handle, and so once things started failing, they've pretended this default profiles thing is the problem, thus throwing their board partners under the bus, when it reality, it's Intel's actual silicon that is the problem.
 
Silver Wattle

Silver Wattle

Gold Member
peish said:
Intel is in a weird spot. They have for so long, allows no limits for the users to tweak around.

I am not sure why suddenly with 14900K this becomes a bad thing, how many of the CPU are degrading? If you want to OC, you better know your way around and keep expectations right
Click to expand...
The degredation is when using stock/default motherboard power settings and no overclocking.

It applies to the 13900K as well.

In the video linked in the OP they talk about Intel power settings/limits being a mess for years.
 
simpatico

simpatico

Member
BS. Intel default power settings on every CPU released are clear as day. The last couple gens, motherboard makers have been exceeding them to gain a competitive edge amongst themselves. When these spicy volts burn up people's shit, mobo makers feign shock and blame Intel. "How were we supposed to know that adding half a volt was going to cause damage?!?" "Intel didn't stop us from doing it".
 
S

SpokkX

Member
I have a 14700F which runs totally stable

As far as i understand this runs at a lower tdp (65-219w vs 125-253w) and lower base clock (2.1 vs 3.5 perfcore)

It seems to get 10% less perf than K model.. but frankly it is still quite fast and i prefer it stable
 
Chiggs

Chiggs

Gold Member
simpatico said:
BS. Intel default power settings on every CPU released are clear as day. The last couple gens, motherboard makers have been exceeding them to gain a competitive edge amongst themselves. When these spicy volts burn up people's shit, mobo makers feign shock and blame Intel. "How were we supposed to know that adding half a volt was going to cause damage?!?" "Intel didn't stop us from doing it".
Click to expand...

This is not at all what’s being described in the video, though, not to say there aren’t two or more sides to this story. I’m sure there are.

That said, board manufacturers are reportedly reaching out to Hardware Unboxed for advice on what profiles need to be set as default since Intel refuses to communicate with them, which gives the appearance that Intel is dodging and weaving until this blows over.

I would never in a million years believe that board manufacturers are totally innocent little cherubs, but in this case, Intel is starting to look pretty scummy.
 
StereoVsn

StereoVsn

Member
Mithos said:
They bring that up in the video... and the difference was/is...

AMD: oops OUR mistake...
Intel: oops YOUR mistake (user/mobo vendors)...
Click to expand...
It took a while for AMD to admit that it’s on them and they were blaming partners all the way.

Speaking of board partners, they are also all assholes and kept ratcheting up power envelopes by default for both AMD and Intel. And they were trying to weasel out of their RMA warranties. Especially so with ASUS and Gigabyte. So fuck the whole lot of them.
 
simpatico

simpatico

Member
Chiggs said:
This is not at all what’s being described in the video, though, not to say there aren’t two or more sides to this story. I’m sure there are.

That said, board manufacturers are reportedly reaching out to Hardware Unboxed for advice on what profiles need to be set as default since Intel refuses to communicate with them, which gives the appearance that Intel is dodging and weaving until this blows over.

I would never in a million years believe that board manufacturers are totally innocent little cherubs, but in this case, Intel is starting to look pretty scummy.
Click to expand...
They claim they don't know what power settings are default but all their products have a setting for "Enforce all limits" which as it turns out, are Intel default settings. :eek: They're just not the default settings for the motherboard. I haven't heard of widespread damage or instability using Enforce All Limits. Personally I decided to go AMD on this last CPU upgrade, so I'm not effected by any of this. But the responses from mobo makers are not honest. They know what they're doing and they're feigning ignorance to try and shift the financial burden of all the RMA's.
 
StereoVsn

StereoVsn

Member
SpokkX said:
I have a 14700F which runs totally stable

As far as i understand this runs at a lower tdp (65-219w vs 125-253w) and lower base clock (2.1 vs 3.5 perfcore)

It seems to get 10% less perf than K model.. but frankly it is still quite fast and i prefer it stable
Click to expand...
Stable is always better vs the extra 5-10% more CPU performance which won’t be noticed in 95% of games where the bottleneck is GPU.

I do the same for my 7800x3D, minor enhancement under lowered power envelope. It’s better to run stable and cool.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
StereoVsn said:
It took a while for AMD to admit that it’s on them and they were blaming partners all the way.

Speaking of board partners, they are also all assholes and kept ratcheting up power envelopes by default for both AMD and Intel. And they were trying to weasel out of their RMA warranties. Especially so with ASUS and Gigabyte. So fuck the whole lot of them.
Click to expand...

The issue with the excess voltage on the IMC on AMD Zen4 CPUs, occurred mostly on Asus motherboards, as they were the ones pushing voltages higher.
There were some problems with other board partners, but fewer than Asus.
It wasn't AMD pointing the finger, it was the users that saw the pattern regarding Asus boards having more issues.
When the problem was identified, AMD immediately released a UEFI that blocked voltages past their safe level. And the problem was solved.

This is in stark difference to what Intel is doing now, with so many board partners complaining behind closed doors, about how badly Intel is dealing with the situation.
 
StereoVsn

StereoVsn

Member
winjer said:
The issue with the excess voltage on the IMC on AMD Zen4 CPUs, occurred mostly on Asus motherboards, as they were the ones pushing voltages higher.
There were some problems with other board partners, but fewer than Asus.
It wasn't AMD pointing the finger, it was the users that saw the pattern regarding Asus boards having more issues.
When the problem was identified, AMD immediately released a UEFI that blocked voltages past their safe level. And the problem was solved.

This is in stark difference to what Intel is doing now, with so many board partners complaining behind closed doors, about how badly Intel is dealing with the situation.
Click to expand...
AMD definitely acted better, that’s true. Still, it wasn’t just ASUS , I remember people seeing issues with Gigabyte and I think either ASRock or MSI as well. ASUS was just most prominent.

I just don’t get Intel’s approach here. Do they really think this will just now over?

Extra f you to ASUS though.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
StereoVsn said:
AMD definitely acted better, that’s true. Still, it wasn’t just ASUS , I remember people seeing issues with Gigabyte and I think either ASRock or MSI as well. ASUS was just most prominent.

I just don’t get Intel’s approach here. Do they really think this will just now over?

Extra f you to ASUS though.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was just Asus. I said Asus had the most issues.
It probably didn't help that in recent years, Asus support has become quite lacking.
 
StereoVsn

StereoVsn

Member
winjer said:
I didn't say it was just Asus. I said Asus had the most issues.
It probably didn't help that in recent years, Asus support has become quite lacking.
Click to expand...
They just had the most sales basically and yeah f ASUS and their RMA. It doesn’t matter what the warranty length is if they will just f you over anyways.

Not buying ASUS again for any of their products.
 
P

PhillMeCream

Member
StereoVsn said:
They just had the most sales basically and yeah f ASUS and their RMA. It doesn’t matter what the warranty length is if they will just f you over anyways.

Not buying ASUS again for any of their products.
Click to expand...
Both Intel and Asus have lost me as a customer. I don't know which brand is the next best for motherboards and gpu
 
Topher

Topher

Gold Member
Insane Metal said:
Leonidas Leonidas whatcha think?
Click to expand...
Big Brother Popcorn GIF by Pop TV
 
JohnnyFootball

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
winjer said:
The issue with the excess voltage on the IMC on AMD Zen4 CPUs, occurred mostly on Asus motherboards, as they were the ones pushing voltages higher.
There were some problems with other board partners, but fewer than Asus.
It wasn't AMD pointing the finger, it was the users that saw the pattern regarding Asus boards having more issues.
When the problem was identified, AMD immediately released a UEFI that blocked voltages past their safe level. And the problem was solved.

This is in stark difference to what Intel is doing now, with so many board partners complaining behind closed doors, about how badly Intel is dealing with the situation.
Click to expand...
There is no company at there with a perfect track record. Every company is going to have problems. That is a fact. It's how those companies RESPOND to those issues.
Asus has been consistently in the headlines for all the wrong reasons.
1. Their boards were prominently the one with the 7800X3D issues. It was almost always an Asus board. Minor reports of other vendors, but Asus had it worse.
2. ROG ALLY issues that they won't acknowledge
3. RMA customer fleecing.

AMD at least admitted the issue and fixed it. That's literally all they can do. Took care of RMAs and to my knowledge, the issue is gone. Yes, it was technically their fault for allowing those voltages to be pushed, but Asus exploited it. AMD then said nope and fixed the BIOS.

1. Intel did this for the sole purpose of gaining a few extra framerates benchmark scores and they have been nothing but unclear and disingenuous about it.
 
Last edited:
Kadve

Kadve

Gold Member
Silver Wattle said:
I just finished watching it, and it's quite surprising that Intel would be willing to risk a PR blowback just to save a few bucks.
Click to expand...
Happens all the time. The infamous "pinto" memo is a classic example where Ford admitted that they knew of the cars problems even before it was sold. But that the negative PR was preferable than redesigning and delaying i.

Also and interesting little tidbit. Don't recall what it was called or where i heard it (think it was a Nerdslayer video), but Corporations apparently have a method of mathematically quantifying the consumers reaction to something and how said reaction would correlate to sales into a score. And often when "controversial" announcements are made its because, well, said score weighed in favor of sales.
 
DaGwaphics

DaGwaphics

Member
I just purchased a 12600ks, at least the 12 series doesn't seem to be effected. Warning videos like this can hopefully allow users to turn things down a bit before their chips are damaged. These things are expensive so HuB might be saving some folks a lot of money if they happen to see the video. Maybe the board manufactures that utilize automated updates can put this information in front of users (update splash screen or something) to let them know they may want to adjust things or what the dangers potentially are.

Total side note, that's a beautiful spot they are at, an unusual mix of urban and natural environments vs. what you see in Florida (you are basically in the city or out in the country here).
 
JohnnyFootball

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
DaGwaphics said:
I just purchased a 12600ks, at least the 12 series doesn't seem to be effected. Warning videos like this can hopefully allow users to turn things down a bit before their chips are damaged. These things are expensive so HuB might be saving some folks a lot of money if they happen to see the video. Maybe the board manufactures that utilize automated updates can put this information in front of users (update splash screen or something) to let them know they may want to adjust things or what the dangers potentially are.

Total side note, that's a beautiful spot they are at, an unusual mix of urban and natural environments vs. what you see in Florida (you are basically in the city or out in the country here).
Click to expand...
That's the thing.

Users shouldn't have their CPUs damaged by running at default settings.
 
Magic Carpet

Magic Carpet

Member
JohnnyFootball said:
That's the thing.

Users shouldn't have their CPUs damaged by running at default settings.
Click to expand...
Yep, This just makes all parties look incompetent. Intel for being Obtuse, MB makers for not understanding the issues and selling stuff anyway and the end Users that expect a base level of experience.

Everyone looks like idiots.
 
DaGwaphics

DaGwaphics

Member
JohnnyFootball said:
That's the thing.

Users shouldn't have their CPUs damaged by running at default settings.
Click to expand...

I guess that's actually on the board makers, since most of them were running completely unlocked (at 350-400w or more) vs. the 253w limit that Intel lists. Though I guess they are saying that even the stated max limit is unsustainable.
 
Celcius

Celcius

°Temp. member
I'm really glad I skipped socket LGA 1700 and stayed on my 10700k for now.
I'm going to be watching 15th gen very closely as I decide whether to stay with intel or go back to AMD for the first time since Athlon 64.
 
LavitzSlambert

LavitzSlambert

Member
DaGwaphics said:
I just purchased a 12600ks, at least the 12 series doesn't seem to be effected. Warning videos like this can hopefully allow users to turn things down a bit before their chips are damaged. These things are expensive so HuB might be saving some folks a lot of money if they happen to see the video. Maybe the board manufactures that utilize automated updates can put this information in front of users (update splash screen or something) to let them know they may want to adjust things or what the dangers potentially are.

Total side note, that's a beautiful spot they are at, an unusual mix of urban and natural environments vs. what you see in Florida (you are basically in the city or out in the country here).
Click to expand...

Melbourne, Australia
 
M1chl

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
To me its seems incomprehensible, how can tiny piece of silicon suck 300amps, I understand that it is at very low voltage, but that's in my head arc welder territory
 
winjer

winjer

Member
M1chl said:
watts = amps x voltage...so if you have 1.1V or if that's the voltage, you need to have current at around 280A for 300W draw.

Not sure what exact voltage on these are, tho.
Click to expand...

An 14900K at full usage, is usually around 1.385v.
But depends on how heavy is the load, silicon lottery, vrm quality, temperatures, power profiles,etc.
 
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