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[BacklashWave534]

How about the industry needs to get their costs under control. If the OP wants to send extra money i'm sure they would appreciate it.

 

[StereoVsn]

The Chinese and Koreans aren't making games like Fortnite (even though they did buy Epic), Baldurs Gate, GTA, or Call of Duty.

That’s an interesting topic. Chinese developers in general are hamstrung by CCP since certain things are simply not allowed in games on the mainland.

So from Creative perspective there are significant limitations. That said, there have been and will be good games from Chinese devs.

Korean devs generally concentrate more on F2P or MMO games but there have been interesting titles.

And of course you have games out of Japan. Mind you, games over there don’t have as rigid pricing structure and can vary in price significantly depending on the title.

 

[Roni]

Niche's aren't fanatic groups that refuse to do anything else, its just individuals with particular interests. People can be fickle when it comes to entertainment, that's just how we are. I can one day be in the mood to play a boomer shooter, then in the other i just want to read a book. If all new boomer shooters suddenly cost $100 you can be sure as hell i'll be choosing books more frequently.

Thanks for fishing out older titles for me, that's exactly what I was talking about.

And Survival Horror fans are Survival Horror fans, Immersive Sim fans are Immersive Sim fans. They'll eventually play it. You're arguing from a launch day, premiere mentality where games need to sell a lot right out of the gate. A good game can be priced and make its money back on the long tail. Nothing but rich assholes are forcing a company to play the quarterly game all the time.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Thanks for fishing out older titles for me, that's exactly what I was talking about.

Those are all 2020+ titles, some released just last year. What are you on about? I even made sure to leave out remakes.

And Survival Horror fans are Survival Horror fans, Immersive Sim fans are Immersive Sim fans. They'll eventually play it.

Yes, when they go on sale. Suddenly that $150 turns into $50 or $30. If you're gonna be like that might as well price it $40 from the get go and capitalize on hype.

 

[Roni]

Those are all 2020+ titles, some released just last year. What are you on about? I even made sure to leave out remakes.


Yes, when they go on sale. Suddenly that $150 turns into $50 or $30. If you're gonna be like that might as well price it $40 from the get go and capitalize on hype.

I'm on about the fact we're in 2024 and those are 2020-2023 games. That's what I'm on about.

I'm also on about the fact a good number of those games are on Early Access. Meaning they themselves are approaching their commercial lifecycles relying on a long tail and word of mouth.

Finally, doing a sale on a game is a decision left to the owner of the IP. Many publishers feel like their games are great and you should cough up the cash they want if you want to experience it. Nintendo, Sony, Take Two... If the product is evergreen, don't fucking undercut yourself and leave it at where you need/want it.

 

[Mercador]

Cut marketing craziness, you'll have more money for development.

 

[IDKFA]

Cut marketing craziness, you'll have more money for development.

This.

Also stop using inclusion advisors like Sweet Baby Inc. I dread to think what they charge.

 

[RickMasters]

Wasn’t this the whole point of MTX though? To make more money off the game on the back end?


Personally…… I don’t agree with paying more than the cost of a movie ticket for one and some games. 50-60 buck os the sweet spot even though I buy my games in sales. It’s very rare that I buy a game at launch. Especially these days with devs releaseing not so polished product at launch. That’s not worth 70 bucks day one to me.



I buy battles passes on the games I play and sometimes skins if they catch my eye. I’d be happy for them to keep things like that going for MP games. For SP games I expect story expansion. These devs think they can just roll out golden guns and splash camo and be done with it. Then complain that the game should cost more. Make and sell shit for your game that feels like value for money and maybe people will buy that more.



Anybody who encourages game price hikes should also understand there is a chance it drives people to the subs more. I think game prices are gonna rise any and that’s when things like Gamepass and PSN+ will become more common place than they are now.

 

[GardenOfAbbylon]

If they want to charge more for games, wage increases have to exist. As it is now, with anything, cost of things keeps going up but wages don't. People are being priced out of games, food, housing, etc. I'm against games being made more expensive if wages are going to stay stagnant.

 

[Banjo64]

Everyone does, or should, if the alternative is you lose the thing you want to keep. Like there is a political row in the UK about paying doctors and nurses more. They get a similar amount to their French counterparts, but they can get a lot more in the US, Canada and Australia. We could pay more to incentivise them to stay, or we could pay them as little as we can get away with, and then act dumbfounded when they leave for greener pastures. THAT is why you want to pay more - because the alternative is worse. I mean on this forum, I assume most of us do want to keep our hobby alive. I personally don't want to be left with only 2D pixel shooters and other shovelware that cost pennies to make.

Yes we should all want to support the hobby.

I take issue with this statement which is pretty extreme IMO.

Games like Hades, Ori, Tinykin, Plague Tale, Hollow Knight, Stardew Valley, Terraria, Minecraft, Tunic, Cuphead, Rocket League, Neon White… the list goes on and on. These games cost pennies compared to most of the AAA tripe we get that costs hundreds of millions. And all of them are full of content, look amazing, play amazing and have sold amazing.

None of them have to cost £100 to be profitable. The studios that made those games sold them at reasonable prices and have made bank.

 

[Alexios]

Those are all 2020+ titles, some released just last year. What are you on about?

I don't get Roni , you covered imm sims well (sans edge cases like Amnesia: The Bunker) showing they're alive by smaller devs, there are more strictly upcoming since he arbitrarily blocks those that are in early access for reasons: Peripeteia, Core Decay, Neet, DataJack 2020, Judas, Safe Not Safe, Final Defect, Neverlooted Dungeon, The Muller-Powell Principle, Sorceress, Retrospace, Heartrender, Serpens, Streets of Rogue 2, Psycho Patrol R, Monomyth, Corpus Edax, Memories of a Spy, Lonely Space, Imprisoned Hyperion 2, ETOS, Skin Deep, Spectra, Athanasia, Selaco and likely many more.

Edit: found another pair, Sonar Shock & Parkside.
​

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Prices should be adjusted for inflation while wages aren't? Yeah, that'll work out great...

 

[kubricks]

Price and value are two different thing.

In terms of inflation may be you feel the price of games hasn't increased much, but at the same time there are even more forms of cheap/free entertainment competes for the same space so the game's price cannot increase by any significant amount. It's capitalism, if they can charge for more they already have, there is no need for any outsiders to promote the idea, the shareholders will.

And if it's not sustainable, let it collapse and capitalism will find its way.

I actually fully support gaming company to try and charge $1000 for a game if they are confident and think its AAAAAA entertainment. After all many other forms of entertainment costs even more and last only an hour or two? It would be a great experience to witness.

And why do many feel SO strongly against games increasing in cost?
Same as why company try their best to maximize their profit, everyone wants to maximize their own benefit. It's not hard to understand.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I'm on about the fact we're in 2024 and those are 2020-2023 games. That's what I'm on about.

What the fuck, we're two months into 2024 what did you want? Blood West released December last year, 2-3 months ago and apparently thats "old"? What are you even trying to argue here, that unless there's a new immersive-sim every week the genre is dead?

There's more of them too, not to mention the 'barely' ones like Amnesia the Bunker. I merely hand-picked a few.

I'm also on about the fact a good number of those games are on Early Access. Meaning they themselves are approaching their commercial lifecycles relying on a long tail and word of mouth.

Only the last three are in EA, and i put there just to show there were more on the way. And what's wrong with long tails and word of mouth? Its a viable way to sell your game, proven to work over and over again.

Finally, doing a sale on a game is a decision left to the owner of the IP. Many publishers feel like their games are great and you should cough up the cash they want if you want to experience it. Nintendo, Sony, Take Two... If the product is evergreen, don't fucking undercut yourself and leave it at where you need/want it.

As i said, these are entertainment, luxury goods. I don't care how evergreen Tears of the Kingdom is, i can live and have fun perfectly well without it, so does the vast majority of the population.

If someone wants to save up some money or cut expenses, they'll certainly be open to the idea of exchanging the new $140 God of War for a cool free web-novel they found online. Or rather, they may do just that even when money isn't an issue, maybe the novel is just that interesting for them.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Now you pro price hike guys are giving financial and employment advice? How retarded.

 

[Mercador]

This.

Also stop using inclusion advisors like Sweet Baby Inc. I dread to think what they charge.

Never heard of them. Why I'm not surprised they are in Montreal?

 

[Roni]

And what's wrong with long tails and word of mouth? Its a viable way to sell your game, proven to work over and over again.

If this deep into the exchange you haven't figured out I'm for long tails and word of mouth, I'm out.

 

[mrabott]

Basically, seeing all these layoffs and hearing part of the reason is the risk and small margins...well, there's one simple solution: games need to cost more.

Over here in New Zealand, we currently pay $90-$120.00 or thereabouts a game, games have nearly always cost this much...going way, way back to at least the 90s. I don't really understand why video games are immune to going up in price (apart from the recent $10 USD bump), I mean...if it meant less lay offs, a healthier industry and people still wanting to work in the industry, surely us taking a $20-$30 bump on the chin is worth it?

I probably am not the median gamer in terms of earnings and such, but even when I was a broke Uni student in the late 90s & early 2000s, games were still $90-$120.00 a game here - and I paid it and was happy....that's like $200.00 now adjusted for inflation lol, so yeah, why do many feel SO strongly against games increasing in cost?

I've gotten $200 of value from Hell Divers 2 already, $500 of value from Cyberpunk etc etc - it just feels like it's a crazy good deal, but are we hurting our own industry by not being open to a price hike?

$80-90 USD a game, I'd go there - if it means the industry keeps on smashing it (that's mean $150.00 NZD for sure, painful, but worth it)

Phil, is that you? Dude, the problem with all these layoffs isn't the price of the games. It's the way capitalism works.
I know that with your brain flooded with neo-liberal propaganda you won't be able to understand, but no matter how long we are sold games, negligence like this in the industry will always occur.

 

[sachos]

developed in 1-2years.

This is why i have faith in AI assisted development.

 

[Edgelord79]

What a fucked up thread. All this opining and handwringing over the price of games not being high enough. Should they be higher, maybe. Will I pay more, maybe. Is any of this the fault of the consumer?

Absofuckinglutely not.

Cost to Make the Game - If they want to lay down $500M to make a game and then charge $120 for the base game. Go for it. I don’t really care for much of those games myself, but to each their own. I personally will wait for a sale.

Wages of Employees - Not the consumers problem here as most of that money goes to executives. Their mistakes are not our responsibility. Start at the top fixing the problem, not the bottom.

Layoffs - Not happening because of prices. Over hiring and poor growth projections are responsible at larger studios. Plus poor management of their games as they spiral out of control. Smaller studios can empathize with more, but there are plenty of examples of successful smaller studios.

Sustainability - A big one. 5-6 year game cycles and then huge budgets. Of course they are going to want more money. But at the same time don’t complain if sales don’t meet the required 5M+ sales projections required to break even.

Game cycles are too long and they need to be more reasonable. You want to make a Ferrari and charge Ferrari prices fine, but the market better be there and the Ferrari better work and come with everything in it.

Make games people want to play. Sorry your new “unique” Marvel game (stand down Marvel nerds, just an example) doesn’t do well and you spent a gajillion on marketing, complain while releasing between the 16 other Marvel games that just released. Again… not the consumers problem.

Blaming the consumer because they want to pay as little as possible when there are so many other actual necessities that cost more is ridiculous (that’s another topic because if you are hellbent on paying more maybe consider we don’t pay for the true price of much). Oh also remember, this hobby of ours competes with those necessities for our dollars and other hobbies. Money is finite.

Its their responsibility to make me part with my money. It’s not a fucking charity. I’m not paying more because my heart bleeds for video games.

/rant

 

[Guilty_AI]

If this deep into the exchange you haven't figured out I'm for long tails and word of mouth, I'm out.

How do you expect me to figure out someone who says 2023 games are "old"?

 

[Majukun]

don't confuse irrealistic predictions of growth driven by corporate greed with the industry being unsustainable (and don't fool yourself, they already cost more, the price has been going up for years, one way or the other)

 

[Roni]

How do you expect me to figure out someone who says 2023 games are "older"?

You're off by a couple of (very important) letters, so I fixed it for you.

 

[johnnyKage5]

gaming take up prime position in our living areas and offer the most compelling game assets. I think we pay enough. gaming is basically Optimus prime and they should be thankful for the pleasure

 

[Nevadatan]

No. specially not with the current trend of filling games with MTX up the ass, hell not after BG3 sold like hot cakes at the regular price and Pokemon with Guns sold like crazy at a reduced price.

maybe stop sinking money on external consultory shit like Sweet Baby et al, and probably you will have a manageable budgeting for your games.